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Salaam,There is a discussion going on elsewhere (about nisaa/Qoum), however, I thought it would be a beneficial to keep you all updated!
Add Your Comments  Question by: BOB On 21 September 2010
Comments by: bob On 21 September 2010Report Abuse
Mazha is talking about 49: 11, and i asked him why Qoum was translated as Men,  
Quote from: Mazhar on Today at 03:36:41 PM  
After this post, what word should I coin except "stupid" to make you understand that words used are indefinite. And a Qaum comprises of subsets, and each subset has in it women who can do it against other women of their own subset. And unless women are identified as an entity with reference to a man/men for indicating relationship, it means women in the general sense.  
But why you think Yusuf Ali is the last word? Why not you see others? And perhaps you do not know that in "Old English" 'men" generally meant "human being, person".  
No group of people should indulge in mocking/ridiculing another people, it is possible that they may be better than them;  
and nor group of women should indulge mocking/ridiculing other women, it is possible that they may be better than them;  
And QZ conveniently also forgets that verbs are different, for Masculine Noun the verb is masculine, and for women the verb is feminine apart from pronouns. That is why I say he needs a refresher course, though he knows Arabic and is deliberately and purposely cheating by ignoring basics of Arabic.  
My reply  
I’m not saying Yusuf Ali is the final word; far from it, however I will use his translation (as it is traditional) to explain.  
“Let not some men (Qoum) among you laugh at others”  
“Nor let some women (Nisa) laugh at others”  
It is clear that Qoum and Nisa are antonyms. Now let’s take a look at your translation :  
“No group of people should indulge in mocking/ridiculing another people”  
“nor group of women should indulge mocking/ridiculing other women”  
If we look at the first section, the word “people” constitutes of men and women, so there is no need to create a second section specifically related to “women”  
“Yaskhar” the “masculine singular imperfect verb” has been used once, for both parties i.e. it has been used for “Qoam” and for “Nisa”  
If Qoum and Nisa are antonyms, then we firstly need to understand what Qoum is in order to establish the meaning of “Nisa”  
Qoum is from the root: Qaf – Waw – Miim = stand still or firm, rose/stand up, managed/conducted/ordered/regulated/superintended, established, made it straight/right, maintain/erect/observe/perform, set up, people/community/company, abode, stature/dignity/rank. aqama - to keep a thing or an affair in a right state.  
From the above, we can clearly see that “Qoum” is positive, with high rank, which is in a right state.  
To understand what Nisa is, we do need to have a “refresher” and go back to basics in order to understand what the conditions are of nouns in relation to gender.  
As we are well aware, there are two forms of gender in Arabic; masculine and feminine – there is no neuter. Effectively this means each noun must be either masculine (true or figurative) or feminine (true or figurative). There are certain figurative nouns that are deemed feminine as standard – i.e. human body parts (hand, eye), natural entities such as wind, geographical names such as towns, countries and so on.  
If Nisa is the antonym of Qoum, then it is suggestive that Nisa is negative, with low rank, in a bad state. If Qoum is a country / nation / a people in a good state, of high stature and rank, then clearly Nisa is a weaker nation / people.  
I rest my case!

Comments by: moazzam On 21 September 2010
Dear Bob,the lexicon is an important tool to translate the words,but the context and tasreef is more importent to derive the true sense from the words used in a sentences especially the Quranic verses.The whole surah addressing the mominoon including MEN & WOMEN,The surah starts with YA AYYUHALLAZINA AMANOO and keeps on addressing with the same words through out the surah ALHUJRAT.The only verse 49/13 starts with YA AYYUHANNAS,here the gender defferentiation is used.The verse 49/11 is also starting with YA AYYUHALLAZINA AMANOO,so there shoud be no discremination of gender same as in the other verses of surah.The QUOM means the established/powerfull people of the society and NISA means the weaker persons of the society(including men and women).The lexiconic tool must be used under the context of the whole sura.Well done Mr. Bob.

Comments by: bob On 21 September 2010Report Abuse
Dear Moazzam bhai, ur points are very good. Now its even more clear ,ill write them down . Have a look at the discussion when you have time.

Comments by: aurangzaib On 21 September 2010 Edit DeleteReport Abuse
Dear Bob,  
Mazhar of is an old foulmouth, always using derogatory remarks and cheap street jargon in Quranic discussions.  
I had long discarded discussion with him finding it below one's dignity to address a ruffian like him. The issue, as you know, has been discussed between us at length under the same Chapter, under heading "Dr. Shabbir's Objections on Soum". The grammatical intricacies were exhaustively discussed and our consensus arrived at.  
I think, people like Mazhar can be left wandering in the darkness of ignorance and obstinacy.  
We have to keep our aastana clean from the dirty language often used at  
However, you were, as usual, brilliant in explaining your standpoint..  
God bless you.

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