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TRANSLATION OF QURAN
BY DR. QAMAR ZAMAN
Translation Status
آیات
سورۃ
نمبر
1-7 الفَاتِحَة -1
1-286 البَقَرَة -2
1-200 آل عِمرَان -3
1-176 النِّسَاء -4
1-120 المَائدة -5
1-165 الاٴنعَام -6
1-206 الاٴعرَاف -7
1-75 الاٴنفَال -8
1-129 التّوبَة -9
1-109 یُونس -10
1-123 هُود -11
1-111 یُوسُف -12
1-43 الرّعد -13
1-52 إبراهیم -14
1-99 الحِجر -15
1-128 النّحل -16
1-111 بنیٓ اسرآئیل / الإسرَاء -17
1-110 الکهف -18
1-98 مَریَم -19
1-135 طٰه -20
1-112 الاٴنبیَاء -21
1-78 الحَجّ -22
1-118 المؤمنون -23
1-64 النُّور -24
1-77 الفُرقان -25
1-227 الشُّعَرَاء -26
1-93 النَّمل -27
1-88 القَصَص -28
1-69 العَنکبوت -29
1-60 الرُّوم -30
1-34 لقمَان -31
1-30 السَّجدَة -32
1-73 الاٴحزَاب -33
1-54 سَبَإ -34
1-45 فَاطِر -35
1-83 یسٓ -36
1-182 الصَّافات -37
1-88 صٓ -38
1-75 الزُّمَر -39
1-85 المؤمن / غَافر -40
1-54 حٰمٓ السجدة / فُصّلَت -41
1-54 القَمَر -54
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QURAN
MISCONCEPTIONS
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What is the concept of ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا in Islam?
Add Your Comments  Question by: JUNAID On 21 February 2011
Comments by: Junaid On 21 February 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
The word ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا or "usury" means excessive interest.  
 
ٱلَّذِينَ يَأْكُلُونَ ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا لَا يَقُومُونَ إِلَّا كَمَا يَقُومُ ٱلَّذِى يَتَخَبَّطُهُ ٱلشَّيْطَٰنُ مِنَ ٱلْمَسِّ ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَالُوٓ۟ا إِنَّمَا ٱلْبَيْعُ مِثْلُ ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا وَأَحَلَّ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْبَيْعَ وَحَرَّمَ ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا فَمَن جَآءَهُ مۥَوْعِظَةٌ مِّن رَّبِّهِۦ فَٱنتَهَىٰ فَلَهُ مۥَا سَلَفَ وَأَمْرُهُٓۥ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ وَمَنْ عَادَ فَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ (2:275  
يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُو۟ا لَا تَأْكُلُو۟ا ٱلرِّبَوٰٓ۟ا أَضْعَٰفًا مُّضَٰعَفَةً وَٱتَّقُو۟ا ٱللَّهَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ (3:130  
 
ٱلْبَيْعُ and ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا are two different concepts. Also ٱل is used with رِّبَوٰ۟ا which makes it a bit different from ر بَ ا which is translated as high, over top, over look, whereas رِّبَوٰ۟ا has been translated as "to collect everything form" or "take away everything from". The prefix ٱل makes this word a bit more special and as per my analysis, this is a special act of taking away everything from someone or depriving someone from what is his right. How can one deprive or take away everything from someone? Obviously by imposing a burden and multiplying the amount of debt. This simply means that a nominal increase is not ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا rather it is multiplication or compounding.  
ٱلْبَيْعُ again with a prefix ٱلْ means a nominal increase through trade which is generally considered as profit, though I will use the term "return of labor" for it. Let me try and explain;  
A farmer or producer cannot sell his/her crop directly to the market so he/she needs someone to transport and later on to market or sell the goods. This brings in a transporter who earns his share by return of labor he invests in transporting goods from farm to market. Then comes the salesman who invests his labor to store/secure and later on market the crop. Finally comes the buyer who pays for the labor of farmer, transporter and salesman and gets the possession of crop. Please note that it is not the value of crop, rather its the cost of seeds, fertilizers, fuel, and labor of farmer, transporter and salesman which is being paid for. Also to be noted that the price of crop can easily be determined according to the principle of demand / supply and according to the quality / amount of labor involved in production, transportation, storage and marketing.  
The buyers become owner / custodian and now he/she can consume the item or sell it further to earn his share. I will not use the word "profit" here because anything this person earns, it will be the return of his efforts in terms of securing / storing / keeping the goods in possession to market / sell it to end user which may be a consumer or a producer of high end goods (the cycle will be repeated in second case, the same way as defined above).  
Now let’s talk about another option where the owner of goods cannot sell it outside the country or across the border directly. This brings in the role of an "exporter" who apply his efforts to market the goods internationally and with the help of a shipper/ transporter he delivers the goods to another country where these are needed (Again the price should be based on the amount of labor invested in storage, transportation and marketing). These goods, when delivered overseas or across the border need an importer to collect / receive the custody and he/she will pay for all the cost and labor involved earlier on. Now the "importer" becomes custodian and he/she can sell it further to earn the return of labor invested in form of storing / securing and marketing. Import of goods, brings in another factor which is involvement of government in terms of custom duty or taxes. As far as my point of view is concerned, a pure Islamic government cannot impose Tax / Duty which is double or multiple of actual value of goods. Rather the duty should be nominal and it should only cover the cost of efforts involved by government in a particular transaction. The term ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا applies to the government as well because an excessive amount of duty / tax will cause an extra burden for the consumer or end user. Everything mentioned above is to be considered as ٱلْبَيْعُ or trade.  
The same concept of ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا applies to the central repository when a loan is sanctioned to an individual for the purpose of acquiring machinery, equipment or education for specializing in a particular field. Government can charge the cost involved in processing and disbursement of loan but nothing in excess (no extra burden on any side). Likewise ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا applies to individuals when they deal with each other in trade where excessive profit (anything in excess of physical / mental labor involved) is prohibited. An individual could give loan and demand a reasonable amount of increase (which covers any risk or overhead cost incurred) in return. If I am giving you 1000$ for a month or an year, I am allowing you to use my property for a specific period and it will cost me something (for example inflation or decrease in value of money). I do have the right to cover the cost and in case you don't return the amount as per agreement, I do have the right to claim any damages incurred. However, this doesn't mean that I can claim whatever I feel like. Rather the claim should be according to the cost of actual loss / damage and not something based on compounding or multiplication.  
[For example I can ask for 10% addition on actual amount which makes it 1100 $ after one year or I can ask for another 10% as damage cost, in case the amount is not returned as per commitment (strictly with mutual consent). However I cannot compound or multiply this cost and I must bear the risk or loss if you default due to a genuine reason, since the transaction was based on mutual consent. This is the element of sharing and sympathy as defined in Quran].  

Comments by: Junaid On 21 February 2011Report Abuse
As we all know that our economy (throughout the world) is based on "fiat money". I have already explained in my previous posts that banks print money when a loan is created and additional money when added to the economy causes "inflation". Inflation in simple words is decrease in buying power of money and under current economic conditions, value of money is constantly decreasing.  
Since a true Islamic economy does not exist today, we have no option but to follow the current system where lending without reasonable increase, simply means a loss to lender. Our so called Islamic scholars oppose "Interest" without realizing that the current economic system cannot work without it. On the other hand they don't even have a slightest idea that they are following conventional (usury based) banking practices in the name of profit sharing (for example IJAARAH, MURAABAHA or MUSHAAIKAH).  
 
Lets take an example;  
Just assume that I am lending you 10000$ for a month or year. This money will lose a certain amount of it's Value or buying power by the end of a specific period and this simply means a loss for me. 10000$ on 21st Feb 2012 will have a lesser value as compared to the value it will have on 21st Feb 2011, due to inflation. As per my understanding, this decrease in value (buying power) needs to be considered when a loan is created. For instance inflation is increasing at a rate of 10% per annum. This 10% loss of value along with a needs to be adjusted in form of additional money to be paid by the borrower at the time of return. Also there is a risk involved in lending and this risk needs to be covered in form of a service charge. Guarantee or Collateral can also be used to reduce the element of risk, which means additional processing cost. According to the existing economic practice, this increase of value is called "INTEREST", whereas if this amount crosses a certain threshold or if it is multiplied or compounded, it becomes أَضْعَٰفًا مُّضَٰعَفَةً or "USURY".  
 
Dear readers, I have derived these conclusions after a careful and detailed analysis though I would still prefer that everyone should try and do some work on their own, instead of accepting or rejecting my inference straight away.  

Comments by: Adnan Muhammad Khan On 21 February 2011
Excellent work done by you, Mr. Junaid.. if you reside in Karachi you may also contact to Capt. (R) Mohd. Siddique Ahmed who has written a valuable book on Quranic Sood (Ribaa) which is really commendable. I would recommend you to go through that book. Below is the address for your conveneince .  
Capt.(R) Mohammad Siddique Ahmed  
C-2 Wajid Square, Gulshan Iqbal, Block 16  
Karachi-75300  
Phone: 021-34965116  

Comments by: Junaid On 22 February 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Respected Brother Adnan, Thank you very much for your comments. Thank you for recommending the book and sharing the details. I would definitely like to go through this book and I'll try to contact Capt. Siddique as soon as possible.

Comments by: Naushad On 22 February 2011Report Abuse
Dear brother Junaid,  
 
Your arguments sound logical in the current economic scenario. However, I sincerely feel that we still cannot justify interest, whether simple or compounding, irrespective of the nature of the current system. You are correct about inflation and hence the time value of money. But the concept of inflation & time value has been floated to justify the very 'riba' that the quran is asking us to refrain from. If the governments(nations) are not burdened with interest, imagine how much lower would be the burden on every individual. Why are nations under interest burden? Because they allowed an institution to print currency and agreed to pay interest on this fictitious wealth. What needs to be changed is this inequitable system, the concept of money and the ownership of institutions.  
 
While your theoretical standpoint is correct, I feel that it negates the admonishment in the quran. What needs to be corrected is the system. You have been vocal about the inhuman aspect of modern banking and the need for reform. As we discuss, this serpent is spreading it fangs even more. You would have read that IMF is proposing to replace the dollar with SDR as the world currency. Till now, the banking mafia could only control a few countries (mostly Europe & USA) by indirectly owning their central banks. The same people established newer instruments of control- the IMF & World bank. Now, while retaining their control on central banks, they are trying to bring every single country to it's knees by establishing the IMF as the banker of the last resort (central bank to all central banks). If any country shuns the SDR, it will not be able to trade internationally & will get isolated. Till now, since dollar was going strong and could command good interest rates, these invisible hands kept on selling dollar debt to other countries. Now with US debt rate heading towards zero, they need new instruments which can command better interest rates. Now USA will also have to buy SDR and hence incur more external debt. What appears more ominous is that this arrangement is a transitionary one till the time the new world currency named bancor is launched. Who will issue bancor to the world and start controlling our children is a matter of speculation. But one thing is clear- if we don't realize the gravity of the situation, our future generations will be debt slaves the day they are born.  
 
While we are discussing the demerits and consequences of fiat money and whether our traditional interpretation of riba is correct or not, even newer forms of money are being invented so that all of mankind can be controlled. I am repeating what you have written above-  
"رِّبَوٰ۟ا has been translated as "to collect everything form" or " take away everything from". The prefix ٱل makes this word a bit more special and as per my analysis, this is a special act of taking away everything from someone or depriving someone from what is his right. How can one deprive or take away everything from someone? Obviously by imposing a burden and multiplying the amount of debt."  
 
If you look at the designs of the usury elite, entire nations would be burdened with increasing debt. To service the debt, more debt will be required. It will mean more borrowing & more tax on people leading to price rise, inflation and cycles of boom & bust in national economies. The debt will be accompanied by demands called 'structural adjustment programmes' where national resources would be demanded to be put in private hands. Individual and collective liberties would be compromised because there would be a demand to decrease wages and increase taxes. All because someone controlling the 'lender of the last resort' is bent on usurping the fruits of others toil.  
 
What I intend to convey here is that the concept of riba is not just limited to individual level. It is a tool employed by the greedy to deprive others of what is naturally theirs. The 'others' could be individuals or nations.  
 
Naushad

Comments by: Nargis On 23 February 2011Report Abuse
http://www.energyandcapital.com/articles/chinas-gold-dollar-reserves/1164

Comments by: Junaid On 23 February 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Sister Nargis, thanks for sharing the link. However I must tell you that the volume of Gold held by China (as mentioned in the article) i.e 5000 metric tons (over $211 billion worth, in today's prices) is nothing as compared to what these Zionist / Freemason corporations (subservient to Rothschild, myers and others) own.  
We can easily see the difference, looking at the volume of Gold mined by the end of 2009 which is 165,000 tonnes, means approximately US$5.3 trillion in value.  
Europe holds Approximately 15000 tonnes, US Federal Reserve is holding 8000 tonnes (approx.) and altogether, the world holds around 32000 metric Tonnes of Gold. Where is the rest hiding? (almost 135000 tonnes)  
I can assure you that no website or no economic forum will tell you where this gold is. (Shhh....Let it be a secret because these bankers don't want anyone to disclose it).  
 
Why national economies need to back up their currencies with metal or something of intrinsic value?  
Let me try and explain;  
When we talk about properly backed up currency (with something having intrinsic value), the volume of economy cannot be altered without adding up valuable backup to support on going activities. Lets take an example of a certain economy having an overall volume of lets say 100 Billion $ and all the currency is backed up with Silver. In order to increase the overall volume of such economy, more silver will be required and without producing/mining/acquiring silver, no extra currency can be printed and added (In order to increase the volume to 110 Billion Dollars, 10 Billion $ worth of silver will be needed). This simply means that there will be no significant effect on current prices (already reached to equilibrium after going through the principle of "Demand and Supply"), since the volume of economy is equal to the value of commodities secured in Central repository or Bait Al Maal. We need to understand this simple effect of increase in volume with reference to price mechanism. Please check the history of British Pound which was introduced as a currency few hundred years ago and one pound was equal to the weight of one pound silver. The effect of inflation can easily be check by comparing the current value of one British Pound with one pound of Silver (this is what inflation has done to British pound). I can tell you that a commodity already in a state of market equilibrium still costs exactly the same as it was few decades ago if we compare it's price in terms of metal (for example Gold). However, the value of both Gold and the commodity itself changed a lot in terms of currency. For example lets assume 100 KG of Wheat which was equal to one ounce of Gold and may be (lets say) 100 US Dollars in 1950. If we compare one ounce of gold with 100 KG of Wheat today, the ratio will almost be the same but in terms of Dollars, the ratio must have gone much above like 1000 Dollars or so. This is what we call inflation in terms of fiat money.  
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
 
Brother Naushad, Your post reflects a higher level of understanding in terms of International Economy. I completely understand your noble intention and I agree with your point regarding IMF and SDR. You are talking about International economics in general, however you need to look at the broader perspective i'e. applied economics in comparison with mainstream economics. (I am sure you are well aware of these concepts).  
Just think about a group of countries who decide not to accept the new policy of IMF regarding SDR, for example let's assume that Pakistan, India, China and Iran decides to use a different medium of exchange for mutual trade. Who can stop them from doing that? And who can stop few other countries joining in such a trade? (All they need is sincere leadership to say NO to IMF and thats it !)  
 
Just to summarize what I posted above;  
 
Initially I have defined the Ideal Islamic concepts such as Human labor, Zero Interest, no artificial inflation and no potential loss to any individual (Note: Zero interest can only be applicable when the currency is backed up with something of intrinsic value). Later on I shifted towards pragmatism due to the fact that things cannot change overnight and we need to find solutions from within the existing condition (according to Quranic values).  
 
As per my understanding, Quran gives us a broader approach towards economy. To make things more understandable, let me use the term "Macroeconomics" here. Quran gives us values to set up a macro level structure having trickle down effects on "Microeconomics".  
 
Please see the following verses;  
 
ٱلَّذِينَ يَأْكُلُونَ ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا لَا يَقُومُونَ إِلَّا كَمَا يَقُومُ ٱلَّذِى يَتَخَبَّطُهُ ٱلشَّيْطَٰنُ مِنَ ٱلْمَسِّ ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَالُوٓ۟ا إِنَّمَا ٱلْبَيْعُ مِثْلُ ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا وَأَحَلَّ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْبَيْعَ وَحَرَّمَ ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا فَمَن جَآءَهُ مۥَوْعِظَةٌ مِّن رَّبِّهِۦ فَٱنتَهَىٰ فَلَهُ مۥَا سَلَفَ وَأَمْرُهُٓۥ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ وَمَنْ عَادَ فَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ  
The above quoted verse (2:275) differentiates between ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا and ٱلْبَيْعُ where the term وَأَحَلَّ is used for ٱلْبَيْعُ and وَحَرَّمَ is used for ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا which clearly shows that ٱلْبَيْعُ has been permitted, whereas ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا is forbidden.  
 
يَمْحَقُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا وَيُرْبِى ٱلصَّدَقَٰتِ وَٱللَّهُ لَا يُحِبُّ كُلَّ كَفَّارٍ أَثِيمٍ  
Please note that ٱلصَّدَقَٰتِ and ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا have been mentioned as antonyms in verse (2:276) quoted above.  
 
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُو۟ا وَعَمِلُو۟اٱلصَلِحَٰتِ وَأَقَامُو۟ا ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتَوُ۟ا ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ لَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ  
The above quoted verse (2:277) is an instruction to establish ا ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ and the economic system of ا ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ which is the responsibility of those who are in power on land (government), as shown in (22:41) which says;  
ٱلَّذِينَ إِن مَّكَّنَهُمْ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ أَقَامُو۟ا ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتَوُ۟ا ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ وَأَمَرُو۟ا بِٱلْمَعْرُوفِ وَنَهَوْ۟ا عَنِ ٱلْمُنكَرِ وَلِلَّهِ عَٰقِبَةُ ٱلْأُمُورِ  
Also in (42:38) which says;  
وَٱلَّذِينَ ٱسْتَجَابُو۟ا لِرَبِّهِمْ وَأَقَامُو۟ا ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَأَمْرُهُمْ شُورَىٰ بَيْنَهُمْ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَٰهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ  
Please note that شُورَىٰ بَيْنَهُمْ represents the concept of mutual consultation as an important aspect of Islamic government.  
 
The next verse (2:278) is about ٱلرِّبَوٰٓ۟ا again;  
يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُو۟ا ٱتَّقُو۟ا ٱللَّهَ وَذَرُو۟ا مَا بَقِىَ مِنَ ٱلرِّبَوٰٓ۟ا إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِين  
Please note that it's ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا with ٱل as prefix, and not رِّبَوٰ۟ا without a prefix.  
 
Now an important verse (2:279) which describes the effects of ٱلرِّبَوٰٓ۟ا and provides instructions for those who are practicing it;  
فَإِن لَّمْ تَفْعَلُو۟ا فَأْذَنُو۟ا بِحَرْبٍ مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وۦَإِن تُبْتُمْ فَلَكُمْ رُءُوسُ أَمْوَٰلِكُمْ لَا تَظْلِمُونَ وَلَا تُظْلَمُونَ  
The term بِحَرْبٍ مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ took me to verse (5:33) which says;  
إِنَّمَا جَزَٰٓؤُ۟ا ٱلَّذِينَ يُحَارِبُونَ ٱللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وۥَيَسْعَوْنَ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ فَسَادًا أَن يُقَتَّلُوٓ۟ا أَوْ يُصَلَّبُوٓ۟ا أَوْ تُقَطَّعَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَأَرْجُلُهُم مِّنْ خِلَٰفٍ أَوْ يُنفَوْ۟ا مِنَ ٱلْأَرْضِ  
An instruction for complete cut off from those involved in يُحَارِبُونَ ٱللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ and وۥَيَسْعَوْنَ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ فَسَادًا can be seen in the above quoted verse.  
 
What is ٱلرِّبَوٰٓ۟ا and how it is practiced? This is defined in (3:130) as;  
يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُو۟ا لَا تَأْكُلُو۟ا ٱلرِّبَوٰٓ۟ا أَضْعَٰفًا مُّضَٰعَفَةً وَٱتَّقُو۟ا ٱللَّهَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ  
Please note أَضْعَٰفًا مُّضَٰعَفَةً which means compounding or multiplication.  
 
Then there are instructions for creditors (2:280), telling them how to deal with debtors;  
وَإِن كَانَ ذُو عُسْرَةٍ فَنَظِرَةٌ إِلَىٰ مَيْسَرَةٍ وَأَن تَصَدَّقُو۟ا خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ  
This instruction can also be seen in (2:177) which says;  
وَءَاتَى ٱلْمَالَ عَلَىٰ حُبِّهِ ذۦَوِى ٱلْقُرْبَىٰ وَٱلْيَتَٰمَىٰ وَٱلْمَسَٰكِينَ وَٱبْنَ ٱلسَّبِيلِ وَٱلسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِى ٱلرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتَى ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ وَٱلْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عَٰهَدُو۟ا وَٱلصَبِرِينَ فِى ٱلْبَأْسَآءِ وَٱلضَّرَّآءِ وَحِينَ ٱلْبَأْسِ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ ٱلَّذِينَ صَدَقُو۟ا وَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُتَّقُونَ  
Or in (9:121) which says;  
وَلَا يُنفِقُونَ نَفَقَةً صَغِيرَةً وَلَا كَبِيرَةً وَلَا يَقْطَعُونَ وَادِيًا إِلَّا كُتِبَ لَهُمْ لِيَجْزِيَهُمُ ٱللَّهُ أَحْسَنَ مَا كَانُو۟ا يَعْمَلُونَ  
The terms نَفَقَةً and وَادِيًا has been mentioned in this verse.  
Translation of نَفَقَةً according to various Arabic lexicons is (disbursal, disbursement, expenditure, expenditures, expense, outgo, outlay, spending, alimony or maintenance).  
Translation of وَ ا دِ according to lexicon is (under a load of earth, under a heavy burden etc.) يَقْطَعُونَ وَادِيًا as per my analysis means "sharing of burden" and in 9:121 it looks like "those who share burden of others (example paying off the debts), it will be recorded in their credit".  
The element of dealing with debtors has also been mentioned in later part of (9:60) which says;  
وَفِى ٱلرِّقَابِ وَٱلْغَٰرِمِينَ وَفِى سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ وَٱبْنِ ٱلسَّبِيلِ فَرِيضَةً مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ  
 
Instructions regarding collection and distribution of wealth can be seen in (9:60 and 9:103)  
 
إِنَّمَا ٱلصَّدَقَٰتُ لِلْفُقَرَآءِ وَٱلْمَسَٰكِينِ وَٱلْعَٰمِلِينَ عَلَيْهَا وَٱلْمُؤَلَّفَةِ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَفِى ٱلرِّقَابِ وَٱلْغَٰرِمِينَ وَفِى سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ وَٱبْنِ ٱلسَّبِيلِ فَرِيضَةً مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ وَٱللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ  
 
خُذْ مِنْ أَمْوَٰلِهِمْ صَدَقَةً تُطَهِّرُهُمْ وَتُزَكِّيهِم بِهَا وَصَلِّ عَلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ صَلَوٰتَكَ سَكَنٌ لَّهُمْ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ  
 
Instructions regarding "what to spend" can be seen in (2:219) as;  
وَيَسْٔلُونَكَ مَاذَا يُنفِقُونَ قُلِ ٱلْعَفْوَ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ ٱللَّهُ لَكُمُ ٱلْءَايَٰتِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَفَكَّرُونَ  
ٱلْعَفْوَ is the term which describes "they may open up for spending, that can be given easily, keeping in mind the security / safety for future."  
Also in (2:215) which says;  
يَسْٔلُونَكَ مَاذَا يُنفِقُونَ قُلْ مَآ أَنفَقْتُم مِّنْ خَيْرٍ فَلِلْوَٰلِدَيْنِ وَٱلْأَقْرَبِينَ وَٱلْيَتَٰمَىٰ وَٱلْمَسَٰكِينِ وَٱبْنِ ٱلسَّبِيلِ وَمَا تَفْعَلُو۟ا مِنْ خَيْرٍ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ بِهِ عۦَلِيمٌ  
 
Verse (2:271) tells us how to spend;  
إِن تُبْدُو۟ا ٱلصَّدَقَٰتِ فَنِعِمَّا هِىَ وَإِن تُخْفُوهَا وَتُؤْتُوهَا ٱلْفُقَرَآءَ فَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَيُكَفِّرُ عَنكُم مِّن سَئَِّاتِكُمْ وَٱللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرٌ  
This can also be seen in (2:272) which says;  
وَمَا تُنفِقُو۟ا مِنْ خَيْرٍ فَلِأَنفُسِكُمْ وَمَا تُنفِقُونَ إِلَّا ٱبْتِغَآءَ وَجْهِ ٱللَّهِ وَمَا تُنفِقُو۟ا مِنْ خَيْرٍ يُوَفَّ إِلَيْكُمْ وَأَنتُمْ لَا تُظْلَمُونَ  
 
Importance of Human Labor as means of wealth generation has been mentioned in (53:38, 53:39, 53:40 & 53:41)  
أَلَّا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَىٰ  
وَأَن لَّيْسَ لِلْإِنسَٰنِ إِلَّا مَا سَعَىٰ  
وَأَنَّ سَعْيَهُ سۥَوْفَ يُرَىٰ  
ثُمَّ يُجْزَىٰهُ ٱلْجَزَآءَ ٱلْأَوْفَىٰ  
 
A concept of Government spending and circulation of wealth has been defined in (59:07);  
مَّآ أَفَآءَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ رَسُولِهِ مۦِنْ أَهْلِ ٱلْقُرَىٰ فَلِلَّهِ وَلِلرَّسُولِ وَلِذِى ٱلْقُرْبَىٰ وَٱلْيَتَٰمَىٰ وَٱلْمَسَٰكِينِ وَٱبْنِ ٱلسَّبِيلِ كَىْ لَا يَكُونَ دُولَةًۢ بَيْنَ ٱلْأَغْنِيَآءِ مِنكُمْ وَمَآ ءَاتَىٰكُمُ ٱلرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَىٰكُمْ عَنْهُ فَٱنتَهُو۟ا وَٱتَّقُو۟ا ٱللَّهَ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ شَدِيدُ ٱلْعِقَابِ  
A clear instruction that government must take care that wealth should not circulate among the few riches.  
 
Everything has been instructed on Macroeconomics level including monetary policy, Fiscal policy, Government spending, Circular flow of income, Human Labor, Unemployment etc. However it is the beauty of this system that the effects trickle down to the level of microeconomics, thus creating an environment based on growth and development for individuals.  
 
 
 
 

Comments by: Nargis On 23 February 2011Report Abuse
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=41&QID=336  
 
 
The verses quoted about Riba are 275-269 of Sura 2 (Al-Baqra),  
الَّذِينَ يَأْكُلُونَ الرِّبَا لا يَقُومُونَ إِلا كَمَا يَقُومُ الَّذِي يَتَخَبَّطُهُ الشَّيْطَانُ مِنَ الْمَسِّ ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَالُوا إِنَّمَا الْبَيْعُ مِثْلُ الرِّبَا وَأَحَلَّ اللَّهُ الْبَيْعَ وَحَرَّمَ الرِّبَا فَمَنْ جَاءَهُ مَوْعِظَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ فَانْتَهَى فَلَهُ مَا سَلَفَ وَأَمْرُهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَمَنْ عَادَ فَأُولَئِكَ أَصْحَابُ النَّارِ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ  
يَمْحَقُ اللَّهُ الرِّبَا وَيُرْبِي الصَّدَقَاتِ وَاللَّهُ لا يُحِبُّ كُلَّ كَفَّارٍ أَثِيمٍ  
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلاةَ وَآتَوُا الزَّكَاةَ لَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ  
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَذَرُوا مَا بَقِيَ مِنَ الرِّبَا إِنْ كُنْتُمْ مُؤْمِنِينَ  
فَإِنْ لَمْ تَفْعَلُوا فَأْذَنُوا بِحَرْبٍ مِنَ اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَإِنْ تُبْتُمْ فَلَكُمْ رُءُوسُ أَمْوَالِكُمْ لا تَظْلِمُونَ وَلا تُظْلَمُونَ  
وَإِنْ كَانَ ذُو عُسْرَةٍ فَنَظِرَةٌ إِلَى مَيْسَرَةٍ وَأَنْ تَصَدَّقُوا خَيْرٌ لَكُمْ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ  
وَاتَّقُوا يَوْمًا تُرْجَعُونَ فِيهِ إِلَى اللَّهِ ثُمَّ تُوَفَّى كُلُّ نَفْسٍ مَا كَسَبَتْ وَهُمْ لا يُظْلَمُونَ  
275. those who eat Ribâ (usury) will not stand (on the Day of Resurrection) except like the standing of a person beaten by Shaitân (Satan) leading Him to insanity. that is because they say: "Trading is Only like Ribâ (usury)," whereas Allâh has permitted trading and forbidden Ribâ (usury). so Whosoever receives an admonition from his Lord and stops eating Ribâ (usury) shall not be punished for the past; his case is for Allâh (to judge); but whoever returns [to Ribâ (usury)], such are the dwellers of the Fire - they will abide therein.  
276. Allâh will destroy Ribâ (usury) and will give increase for Sadaqât (deeds of charity, alms, etc.) and Allâh likes not the disbelievers, sinners.  
277. truly those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, they will have their reward with their Lord. on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.  
278. O You who believe! be afraid of Allâh and give up what remains (due to you) from Ribâ (usury) (from now onward), if You are (really) believers.  
279. and if You do not do it, Then take a notice of war from Allâh and his Messenger but if You repent, You shall have Your capital sums. deal not unjustly (by asking more than Your capital sums), and You shall not be dealt with unjustly (by receiving less than Your capital sums).  
280. and if the debtor is In a hard time (has no money), Then grant Him time till it is easy for Him to repay, but if You remit it by Way of charity, that is better for You if You did but know.  
281. and be afraid of the Day when You shall be brought back to Allâh. Then Every person shall be paid what He earned, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.  
(Usual translation )  
 
Now keep in mind the verse underlined, which says that if you don’t stop taking profit or usury called RIBA then there is a declaration of War from Allah and his Messenger .  
 
Do you think Allah and his prophet is going to launch a war against the people who are taking or giving some extra money on loans.  
 
Certainly NOT.  
 
Declaration of War is always agaist some mutiny or tyranny. But before we start understanding from our point of view lets see the weaknesses of orthodox explanation of Riba and its application .  
 
By orthodox definition Riba (usury ) is,  
1….If someone takes some money for some period and he is asked to pay extra money on and above the loan then he is giving Riba.  
2….If someone gives money to some person and does not participate in business actively i.e. he is a sleeping partner then he is taking Riba.  
 
Lets put these rules in practice,  
 
A person is fired from the job due to Economic turmoil and he is given some allowances in shape of money. He has no choice to invest his savings in any business because he can not become a sleeping partner in any business nor he can start his own business because of small amount money and lack of experience of business. Moreover during the Economic turmoil when experienced businessman are shutting down their business how an inexperienced person can start a new business.  
 
Ultimately he has no choice except to keep the money hidden in his home under the earth ( like Arabian gypsies of 1400 years ago ) at the mercy of dacoits and thieves.  
 
Not only he is at the mercy of dacoits but also facing the risk of inflation . (Actually the problem is our own self created by asking our Mullah to give decree on problems of economics about which he knows nothing )  
 
Now coming to our discussion from Quran, we have seen in verse 279  
 
That if someone is involved in usury he should be prepared for a war from Allah and Messenger .  
 
As we know a declaration of war is not an ordinary thing. It is only declared either for the enemy from outside the state or against the rebellions or to suppress a mutiny or a revolt .  
 
So it should be very clear that RIBA is something going on against the state on a very large scale, and as the context suggests the matter was financial so the war was declared against those who were looting the resources of the state. In our days this is to be applied on all those who are plundering the wealth of the state.  
 
Now after defining Riba as looting, grabbing and the wealth and resources of the state let us see the translation of the verses 275-281 of Sura 2 (Al-Baqra)  
 
275. Those who eat Ribâ (usury) will not stand (on the Day of Resurrection) except like the standing of a person beaten by Shaitân (Satan) leading Him to insanity. that is because they say: "Trading is Only like Ribâ (usury)," whereas Allâh has permitted trading and forbidden Ribâ (usury). so Whosoever receives an admonition from his Lord and stops eating Ribâ (usury) shall not be punished for the past; his case is for Allâh (to judge); but whoever returns [to Ribâ (usury)], such are the dwellers of the Fire - they will abide therein.  
 
275. Those who loot the resources and wealth of the state don’t take a stand except like a person who has become insane by the teachings of Satan ,this is because they say Contracts ( البیع ) or commitments are like Riba . Allah has allowed contracts and forbidden looting of states wealth and resources .  
 
276. Allah destroys Riba and flourishes Sadaqats and Allâh does not like those who does not obey and the criminals.  
 
Please note that Riba is brought agaist the system of Sadaqat . Now if Sadaqa is a system of public contribution to state, as we see from verse 103 of sura 9 and verse 60 of sura 9  
خُذْ مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ صَدَقَةً تُطَهِّرُهُمْ وَتُزَكِّيهِمْ بِهَا  
103. take Sadaqah from their wealth In order to purify them and sanctify them with it.  
and verse 60 of sura 9  
إِنَّمَا الصَّدَقَاتُ لِلْفُقَرَاءِ وَالْمَسَاكِينِ وَالْعَامِلِينَ عَلَيْهَا وَالْمُؤَلَّفَةِ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَفِي الرِّقَابِ وَالْغَارِمِينَ وَفِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَاِبْنِ السَّبِيلِ  
60. As-Sadaqât are Only for the لِلْفُقَرَاءِ ( who can not afford themselves and totally dependent on the state ) and Al-Masâkinالْمَسَاكِينِ (the needy ) and وَالْعَامِلِينَ عَلَيْهَا those employed to collect (the funds); and for الْمُؤَلَّفَةِ قُلُوبُهُمْ ِ the heart broken and وَفِي الرِّقَابِ those who are entangled in some problem, وَالْغَارِمِينَ for those who are penalized and for Allâh's Cause, and for those who are involved in Allahs cause ..  
From these two verses you can see that Sadaqa is not what Mulla says. It is the contribution of the public taken by the Nabi himself i.e. the state ( 9-103 ) and was distributed to the deserving people ( 9-60 )  
 
Coming back to the translation of verse 176 of sura 2 , Allah likes to establish system of Sadaqat and  
 
277. Undoubtedly those who live peacefully and do deeds for the prosperity , opulence and excellence of the society and establish the system according to divine commands and participate in the uplift of the Society will have their rewards ready from their benevolent sustainer , Neither they have any fear nor they will be grieved .  
 
278. O You who live in piece ! be harmonious with the divine commands and give up what remains from Ribâ (usury) if You are really peaceful people.  
 
279. and if You do not do it, Then declare a war from Allâh and his Messenger but if You vow not to repeat You shall have your capital sums. Neither you deal unjustly nor you are dealt with unjustly.  
 
280. and if the person is in a hard time Then grant him time till he is easy , but if you pardon him by way of charity, it is better for you if you knew .  
 
281. and be afraid of the Day when You shall be brought back to Divine Justice .. Then Every person shall be paid what He earned, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.  
 
Now it is very easy to know about Riba , Riba is basically grabbing of state’s resources and wealth The present banking system if it is beneficial to humanity then it is in accordance to Islamic principles .  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=41&QID=336

Comments by: Junaid On 23 February 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Dear sister, your interpretation for ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا is brilliant and you have given me another point to ponder. Yes ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا can be "Grabbing of state resources".  
Having said that, I would like to request you to please explain what term أَضْعَٰفًا مُّضَٰعَفَةً in (3:130) stands for. I have used the words compounding or multiplication for these terms.  
 
We should bear in mind that modern banks act as a separate entity and not a part of government, giving loan to the government and charging compound interest on loan. "Fiat money" is printed when a loan is created, diluting the ongoing economic activities, creating extra burden in form of "Inflation". The government in order to repay the loan, collect heavy taxes from people, thus creating extra burden on working class.  
Then we can talk about the economic "boom and bust" cycles which is nothing but a kind of musical chair game. For example lets assume that the total currency printed by bank amounts to 10000$. Out of this amount, 10 loans of 1000$ each are created by securing collaterals. Assuming that the interest is being charged at a rate of 15% per annum. The total amount (principal + Interest) goes to 11500 $ after one year. Where will this interest come from? (Provided that the total amount of currency available in form of printed notes is 10000$). This brings in the "musical chair" factor, where one of the borrower has to default in any case. His collateral will be confiscated and sold in open market at "force sale value" (FSV) and the amount collected will be disbursed as loan again, completing the figure of 10 borrowers once again. Also please note that these 10 borrowers will use all their means to collect wealth by depriving others of their rights, in order to repay their loans (the element of greed).  
The same kind of burden is created when Banks lend money to corporations and these corporations use all possible ways to earn the revenue and pay the loan off. This environmental pollution in the name of industrial revolution, the use of artificial / synthetic poisonous fertilizers in our foods, monopolies, copy rights, patent rights and all the other attempts to control the markets reflects the element of greed which has been promoted by the system. Most importantly, those who own these banks normally possess shares in all major corporations and they control global economies somehow or other. I can provide the example of media (the propaganda machine), major oil exploration/production companies or arms manufacturing companies.  
Another gift of this modern Fractional Reserve banking system and fiat money is WAR. In order to create more avenues for infusion of fiat money, wars are manufactured. (You can take the example of World War II, 9-11 or the cold war in 70s and 80s where so much money was borrowed and invested on arms and ammunition.) Also the conflicts like Iraq war in 90s, Iran / Iraq conflict, or India / Pakistan conflict.  
Who are the real beneficiaries of all this?  
Yo can easily get the answer by doing some research about who controls the major part of world's economy, who owns the major arms manufacturing corporations, who owns the major oil production companies, who actually controls the media, who were the beneficiaries of WWII and who are the true beneficiaries of ongoing wars today.  
 
Do you think Quran says anything about all this? (I am sure it does)  
 
**(The present banking system if it is beneficial to humanity then it is in accordance to Islamic principles.) by Nargis  
 
No it is not beneficial to humanity by any means. This system has been designed to deprive people of their rights, and these banks does the same as you have mentioned in your interpretation of AL RIBA i.e (Grabbing of state's resources). In addition to that, the modern banking system promotes the concept of circulation of wealth in very few hands, which contradicts لَا يَكُونَ دُولَةًۢ بَيْنَ ٱلْأَغْنِيَآءِ مِنكُمْ as mentioned in (57:09).  
 

Comments by: Nargis On 23 February 2011Report Abuse
Oh its not my interpetation, its :-O its Dr Qamar Zaman's :-D I have to read everything you wroteabout economyso it sinks in, you know a lot about economy so you have to teach me too :-D

Comments by: Junaid On 23 February 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Dear sister, thanks for your comments :)  
 
I just realized that I forgot to include my closing statement regarding economic "boom and burst" cycles.  
As I have already mentioned that banks print money when loans are created and that out of a certain number if borrowers, few of them have to default because of unavailability of extra money to pay off the interest, this creates a situation where money flows towards a certain direction (completely unnoticed). Apparently this Infusion of money in the economy create jobs, promotes businesses and other economic activities and everyone seems happy in the world of many Gods, and they call it "economic boom". However in reality, it adds up burden in form of inflation and increased taxes. A certain number individuals and corporations keep on defaulting while the banks keep on selling collaterals on Forces Sale value. More saturation of economy with fiat money keeps on disturbing the equilibrium, which ultimately ends up in a situation where no room for further infusion remains. This is the point where more borrowers including few major key players default, creating a situation where banks put vast number of collaterals for sale. In such conditions, no buyers are available to invest their money and it results in a steep fall of prices for property. A situation where prices of property goes down, prices of food, oil, or other items of necessities shoot up and money disappears from the market, this is what we call "economic bust". Economists call it a natural phenomena of capitalistic economic system and such situations are considered as "nobody's fault" (although it's actually the fault of system itself).  
Interestingly, no one thinks about where all the money disappeared. As I have mentioned above, the money flows towards few powerful individuals / corporations and gets blocked for the time being. Major shares in these corporations are mostly owned by banks or the owners of banks. These are the corporations who use the same money later on, to purchase all the collateral and other properties on a very low rate, crating new avenues for banks to start the musical chair game again.  
The beauty (or I would rather call ugliness) of Corporations is that they are based on the concept of limited liability, which means personal assets of Directors / owners are not counted as a part of company asset. These entities failing to repay their debts, gets declared as "bankrupt" by their owners, and then the same owners (the trained exploiters) come back to the market, creating new corporations with new names and new board of directors to star over. New avenues gets created in form of wars where weaker nations are suppressed in the name of aggression or terrorism and their resources are snatched away from them.  
Wars providing heaven for Arms manufacturers, oil producers, banks, insurance companies and so on .... An opportunity gets created for a fresh start. Corporations holding all the money starts releasing it again. The money comes back to that market, banks start issuing fresh loans again to the same individuals but with new names for their corporations and economy starts moving towards another boom, then another bust and the cycle goes on.  
 
Also don't forget the parallel economies in form of Black marketing, Fraud, smuggling and drug trafficking etc. under the umbrella of major secret organizations (mostly government based). These parallel economies are strong enough to provide funds and support global economies during uncertainties, by enforcing their own agendas. (Interestingly the major game players, the corporations or so called "legal" economic entities have strong ties and are major share holders in undercover parallel economic activities as well).  
 
(Please note that the actual flow of wealth still remains in the same direction i.e few hands already in control of everything for example; the major banks, major investment companies, major insurance corporations, major oil producing corporations, major arms manufacturers, major research organizations and major media channels etc.). The gap between "Haves and have-not's" is constantly widening up and there is no one who could challenge the system. Majority has been brainwashed with the help of the biggest propaganda machine (The media) and anyone who dares to speak gets awarded with the title "Infidel" or "Insane".  
 
BTW I am one of those "Insane" and "Infidels". Would you still like to learn something from an insane guy? :D  
 
This is our banking, this is our real economy and this is our real world of 21st century :)  
 

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 24 February 2011Report Abuse
Dear Junaid, Excellent information on current affairs of banking, would love to read your comments time and again.  
 
I think issue is not with process of banking system, or with Money printed to be used as mode of transaction, its with how it is administered to make more profit. And no tranperancy of printing money by reserving gold.  
 
Riba as i understand is money earned from resources of the state with corruption. Say 100 billion released by state to enhance education sector and 80 billion eaten away by politicians. This corruption infact would create more chaos than transactional meager interest. Was wondering if Quran might be discussing bout money earned by corruption or banking interest when it says RIBA??  
 
Capitalism might work............. but system ( State ) being capitalist and not Individuals or corporate world. Maybe same banking system might work if concept of fiat or virtual money is checked/stopped and banking is done by System (State) for the people with floating interest based on economical growth of state. Growth of state would be with profits made by the people for the people.  
 
Floating interest seems accurate/Ok to handle transactions between two parties.  
 
Just a thought not sure if makes sense…………  
 
Note : Please put your thoughts on below thread.......  
 
http://aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=23&QID=667  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: Naushad On 25 February 2011Report Abuse
Dear brother Junaid,  
 
If I understand correctly, by international economics, you mean 'macro economics' relevant to international and national policy making, and by applied economics, you mean 'micro economics' as applied to local institutions and businesses.  
 
However, we cannot believe both to be mutually exclusive. The manner in which macro economics is practiced has a direct bearing on all micro economic activities. Let us understand with an example. Since the depegging of the dollar from gold at Bretton woods, any amount of paper could be printed at will. By establishing an institutional framework based in the US, the dollar was imposed as the preferred trade currency across the world. A small fluctuation in dollar value would result in a big fluctuation in the buying/selling power of any business which is involved in international trade. Hence, if you control the dollar supply, you have the power to create upheavals and destabilize businesses so that you may take advantage of the situtation. This is exactly what has been happening over the world, catalyzed by the world bank & IMF syndicate acting for the benefits of military-industrial complex. You can do a bit of research on how Indonesia was target, to understand this point.  
 
Any nation which is subjected to such treatment (this afflicts the entire world now) has no choice but to give in to the demands of the so called 'balancing institutions'. So what happens in these nations?  
- Tax rates go up: Impacts on savings of the people  
- Salaries go down: People get poorer, compounded by the effect of higher tax on lower incomes.  
- Interest rates go up: You earn to fill someone else's pocket. Since your are getting poorer, somewhere you'll take a loan.  
- Public spending goes down: Basic infrastructure gets compromised. People have to pay for what should be free.  
- Privatization happens: National resources are handed over to private profiteers  
- In extreme situations, as happened in Asia, local currencies are devalued: It makes easier for the dollar hounds to loot the nation as it comes to them at a 20-30% discount as compared to local businesses. The impact on micro economics in the local economy and business is tremendously damaging.  
 
I have tried to give only a very brief idea of the connection between international economy and local economy. But everything is currently structured in a manner where one change has a domino effect and affects millions & at times billions of people simultaneously. Hence the foremost requirement today is to either change the current institutional framework or come up with newer frameworks whose benefits are so obvious that there is a migration towards them. Tall order, but that's what I feel is required.  
 
Actions between individuals and groups can be called a sub-system within a larger system. The faults and biases in the larger system will always impact the sub-systems. If we want to change things, the scale cannot be just limited to the local. Hence, when we talk of 'riba' even at a micro economic level, things can work only when 'riba' in the larger system is eliminated. I hope I am able to express myself clearly.  
 
Secondly, I believe that "currency" is a redundant concept. It was employed by the usury elite to fleece the real wealth from people. To have a currency, even if it is backed with precious metal, would be a big limitation to economic equality. Suppose that we come up with a new currency back with gold or silver. The rothchilds would still be the richest people because they own tonnes of gold. Instead, if we create measurable benchmarks for human labour and creative potential, only real output would be considered as wealth. I know this sounds either ridiculous or too revolutionary, but we simply have to do away with currency. The real measure of wealth would be the real outcome from human effort. Precious metal would still be precious and act as a hedge or it may represent accumulated wealth. For trade, the mode of transactions could be debit notes which get accounted and cancelled out at banks. The bank's role would be that of a facilitator & settler of 'mutual credit' and not and issuer of debt. This way, no artificial wealth would be created at the printing press.  
 
Although I feel that I have been somewhat able to express myself, it is possible that every reader may not have the insights that I have derived so far and hence may not be able to understand or appreciate my point. However, to anyone interested, I suggest the following books which may help in getting a broader view of the workings of international economics, the military industrial complex (not just in US but spreading everywhere) and how it impacts the man on the street:  
 
1. Confessions of an economic hitman - John Perkins  
2. The secret history of the American empire - John Perkins  
3. The shock doctrine - Naomi Klein  
4. http://www.larryhannigan.com/EarthPlus.htm  
5. http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm  
6. http://www.publiccentralbank.com  
and many more resources if you search for them.  
 
Naushad

Comments by: Naushad On 25 February 2011Report Abuse
Brother Junaid,  
 
On re-read, I find we are on the same page as regards macro/micro economics.  
 
Do have a deeper reflection on the currency aspect.  
 
Naushad

Comments by: Junaid On 26 February 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
Brother Naushad, you wrote;  
 
**( Secondly, I believe that "currency" is a redundant concept. It was employed by the usury elite to fleece the real wealth from people. To have a currency, even if it is backed with precious metal, would be a big limitation to economic equality. Suppose that we come up with a new currency back with gold or silver. The rothchilds would still be the richest people because they own tonnes of gold. Instead, if we create measurable benchmarks for human labour and creative potential, only real output would be considered as wealth. I know this sounds either ridiculous or too revolutionary,) by naushad  
 
I hope you do remember that we both have agreed to this long time ago :)  
Just to let you know that I am still with you on this point!

Comments by: Naushad On 26 February 2011Report Abuse
Thanks brother,  
 
I had also intended to write to you offline but still haven't due to preoccupations. Will do it soon enough, possibly with some ideas we could work on for initiating positive change.  
 
Wa salaam

Comments by: Abdun On 10 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam,  
 
Riba or usury in English is not limited to the crime of interest on the lending of property, such as a house or some gold, or from whatever you lend and wish to gain from the loan without any wealth creation from anything but extortion.  
 
Usury is the the theft of the fruits of anothers labour, any act that deprives another of their created wealth through fraud, extortion, deception or unequal value is a crime, taxation is an example of this, the subjugating state extorts the fruits of your labour under threat of violence and imprisonment.  
 
The answer to the present usury banking system we all suffer in the so called modern age is simple, people must come together and establish common unity, based within contract, binding themselves to natural law and from that establishing natural law based models of community.  
 
The binding rope of surety bond contract must be established as the basis of the court and law structure, only then can a repository be established, to allow a store of labour, and to allow people to contract future labour through their surety bondmen, allowing the establishment of a human energy economic system.  
 
Abdun Nur

Comments by: naeem sheikh On 10 March 2011Report Abuse
what about the agricultural land lending at fixed amount per anum or a residential building on rent by mutual agreements, is it fall in the term riba (usury)??

Comments by: Maniza On 10 March 2011
Dear Abdun,  
 
Salam, you wrote that "taxation is an example of this, the subjugating state extorts the fruits of your labour under threat of violence and imprisonment"  
Dear brother, is taxation not a Sadaqah, that which fulfills the need of people living in the state? here in denmark we pay minimum 45% tax, in which a wonderful infrastructer is paid for, we have the best standards of health care as compared many other countries in the world, we have a year's maternatiy leave, free universities, good police etc... this is all done by taxation. Last year Oprah Winfery was here doing a piece on denmark as the happyiest place in the world to live in. People are willing to pay more tax if the standard is to remain..  
 
Riba is also an individual frauding the state, as I understand the ayah " so beware to fight against Allah and His rasool", rasool being the Quran in this instance, a constitution. Someone who smuggles illegal ciggarettes, or narko is fighting Allah and His Rasool. Anyone who sits at home and cliams social benefit without needing it, anyone who drives taxis, or a bussiness but declares a low income to the state is in my mind frauding the state for taxation which in turn is being used for the benefit of the populace who live in the state..?  
 
I see many so called (muslims) Mohammadans doing this in all of europe, even in my own family a couple declare a divorce with spouse to recieve more benifits whilst they line the pockets of their famlies in pakistan! they go against interest as "haram" but fraud and lies are minor ill, in many eyes it is allowed cos these states are "kafir" !  
 
Dear naeem sheikh,  
did u know the Mohammadan Mullah believes that u can rent, sell, borrow etc on mutual agreements?  
 
just my simple understanding, i maybe wrong, so please enlighten me :) but it is my understanding after reading Dr.Qamar's article on riba and I completing agree with the interpretaion given by Nargis, who is missed by me :)

Comments by: Junaid On 10 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Dear Manzia, (not sure whether you are brother or sister, so please excuse me)  
I would like to mention that economics and business are vast subjects and there has been a huge amount of research and analysis done on these subjects by mankind. This is a kind of science where it is not that simple to come up with any conclusion without due investigations and research. (This is not something I am quoting from books or websites, rather it's my personal professional experience of more than 10 years in this field which also include extensive research in various fields of banking and economics). Please note that degrees in business or economics doesn't guarantee practical knowledge which is a bit different as compared to theories.  
Comprehensive and practically applicable rules have already been defined through research on economics, however it is a fact these researches and studies need a lot of funding which is mostly provided by corporations having their own interests. Probably this is the reason why an element of selfishness or greed can be seen in our economic activities in todays world. (I would rather call it post world war 2 era of corporations).  
 
Proper rules have been defined in Economics regarding additional money in form of interest over investment of capital or profit margin on sale. These conditions are handled through "market equilibrium", under the situation known as "free market economy" which supports freedom of choice (perfect competition) and contradicts monopoly. As per my understanding, It is not western economic theories which create problems, rather it's our greed which creates situations like monopoly, unhealthy competition, compounding of interest etc. On the other hand, Interest based lending, earning of profit and rental of land/building by no means is a crime, rather it's our selfishness or greed to earn more which creates burden on others creating imbalance.  
 
Also to mention that I believe in Quran as book of values beyond time and space (a discussion is still under progress on this topic). Quran does not specify any method, any amount or any particular practice, rather it provides us permanent values, so that we could implement the socio-economic system and create a welfare state according to Quranic constitution.  
I have seen the usage of this term TAX earlier on by few of our friends at Aastana and I have raised this question during the following discussion; (which is still unanswered)  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?MID=3&SID=29&QID=663  
and  
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?MID=3&SID=29&QID=1081  
 
Let me repeat my question;  
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
Definition of TAX;  
 
To tax (from the Latin taxo; "I estimate") is to impose a financial charge or other levy upon a taxpayer (an individual or legal entity) by a state or the functional equivalent of a state such that failure to pay is punishable by law.  
A tax may be defined as a "pecuniary burden laid upon individuals or property owners to support the government … a payment exacted by legislative authority. "Tax "is not a voluntary payment or donation, but an enforced contribution, exacted pursuant to legislative authority" and is "any contribution imposed by government … whether under the name of toll, tribute, tallage, gabel, impost, duty, custom, excise, subsidy, aid, supply, or other name.  
 
I'll be obliged to have the answer to my question below;  
 
First of all, I completely agree with the statement that SADAQAH is a procedure of collection of wealth from the rich people of society for ٱلْعَفْوَ or welfare, and the method has clearly been defined in (9:60) and (9:103). One who earns more, will pay more!  
 
However, having seen the definition of TAX above, can we actually use this term "TAX" to define "SADAQAH"?  
Isn't "TAX" a contradiction of the concept of "No compulsion in Deen"?  
Is there any other suitable term which could be used to define SADAQAH?  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
 
Brother Abdun holds his own opinion and I do agree with most of his concepts in general, however I cannot see any references stipulated from Quran by him to support his implication.  
This means another question I have raised, is still unanswered;  
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=29&QID=1114  
 
Let me repeat it again;  
_______________________________________________________________________________________  
 
ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا has been compared with ٱلْبَيْعُ which is normally translated as "Trade" but for trade, another word تِّجَارَتُهُمْ has been used in Quran. What exactly is the difference between تِّجَارَتُهُمْ and ٱلْبَيْعُ ?  
Also ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا has been mentioned as antonym of ٱلصَّدَقَٰتِ which means ٱلصَّدَقَٰتِ needs to be interpreted more precisely.  
Another important aspect is أَضْعَٰفًا مُّضَٰعَفَةً which has been used to define ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا in (3:130)  
What is the exact meaning of أَضْعَٰفًا مُّضَٰعَفَةً ?  
(Perhaps this will help us to understand the exact meaning of ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا as mentioned in Quran).  
 
___________________________________________________________________________  
 
Dr. Qamar has defined ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا quite comprehensively in his post (quoted above by sister Nargis).  
However, according to the definition provided by Dr. Qamar, I have understood that ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا (as looting, grabbing and the wealth and resources of the state) is a condition which is applicable only when an Islamic state exists. Since there are no Islamic state in this world today, nothing will come under the definition of ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا.  
If I am not wrong about Dr. Qamar's definition, why ٱلرِّبَوٰ۟ا applies only to state and why not to other socio-economic activities?  
 
________________________________________________________________________________  
 
I think Economy is a very important aspect and we need to do some more research in order to get to a conclusion or to be able to define a comprehensive Islamic economic model. (This is what I am trying to do and I need help from every participant here).  

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 10 March 2011Report Abuse
Dear Maniza, was very refreshing to read your post. Your thought process is absolutely right and i personally dont feel any flaw there. For understanding of economics and banking you dont have to be an economist or a student of economics. Though it might help explaining things/concepts as terminology used in economics can be used while conveying.  
 
Dear Junaid, your work is really appreciable please keep up the good work.  
 
Note : will get back to this need to rush for something on priority.  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: Abdun On 11 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam,  
 
To tax (from the Latin 'taxo' meaning 'I estimate') After introducing tax:  
 
1. The price received by the seller is less than the cost to the buyer. This means that fewer trades occur and that the individuals or businesses involved gain less from participating in the market. This destroys value, and is known as the 'dead weight cost of taxation'.  
 
2. Imposed overhead costs - accounts, records and receipts, internal and external accounting, invasive oversight of government, and the use of intimidation both financial and physical by the state, requiring administration and infrastructure costs, both personal and state (they pass the burden onto increased taxation).  
 
3. Tax implemented by the bankers is a burden that increases, indirect and direct taxation is required to feed the loan repayments to the bankers, who print money for the cost of printing and lend it to the government at interest, halving the value of savings and doubling the cost of goods every ten years on average, modern taxation was introduced by the bankers simply to service loans, without the usury of the bankers taxation is not required.  
 
4. Public services supplied in justification for the taxation reduce and degenerate the longer the system runs due to the ever increasing demands of the interest payments to the bankers for the fictitious loan repayments.  
 
George Mason University, stated "Government income redistribution programs produce the same result as theft. In fact, that's what a thief does; he redistributes income. The difference between government and thievery is mostly a matter of legality."  
 

Comments by: Abdun On 11 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam,  
 
Zakah is different from sadaqah (plural, sadaqat). Where Zakat involves the sharing of one's labour, and material wealth to help those around you, without compulsion, sadaqat in addition to that, can also involve the sharing of happiness among all creation, such as saying kind words, smiling at someone, taking care of animals or the environment, etc.

Comments by: Junaid On 11 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Brother Abdun, I really appreciate valuable comments on ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ and ٱلصَّدَقَٰتُ.  
As I have requested earlier, I would really be grateful if you could provide references from Quran to support your inference. I think this will help a person like me (having a lower level of intellect) to understand.  
 
Please allow me to share my understanding in this regard. I would request you to please correct me if I am wrong.  
 
وَأَقِيمُو۟ا ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتُو۟ا ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ (2:43 this verse (and all other verses where ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ has been mentioned) shows ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ as a system rather than a process of collection or distribution. To support my statement, I would like to mention that no where in Quran, a method or procedure of collection or distribution of ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ has been mentioned.  
 
On the other hand, a clear procedure of distribution of ٱلصَّدَقَٰتُ has been defined in (9:60) which says;  
 
إِنَّمَا ٱلصَّدَقَٰتُ لِلْفُقَرَآءِ وَٱلْمَسَٰكِينِ وَٱلْعَٰمِلِينَ عَلَيْهَا وَٱلْمُؤَلَّفَةِ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَفِى ٱلرِّقَابِ وَٱلْغَٰرِمِينَ وَفِى سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ وَٱبْنِ ٱلسَّبِيلِ فَرِيضَةً مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ وَٱللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ  
 
The following are beneficiaries of ٱلصَّدَقَٰتُ ;  
لِلْفُقَرَآءِ - ٱلْمَسَٰكِينِ - ٱلْعَٰمِلِينَ - ٱلْمُؤَلَّفَةِ قُلُوبُهُمْ - فِى ٱلرِّقَابِ - ٱلْغَٰرِمِينَ - ٱبْنِ ٱلسَّبِيلِ and ٱلصَّدَقَٰتُ can also be distributed فِى سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ  
 
Who is responsible for collection and distribution of ٱلصَّدَقَٰتُ ?  
This has clearly been conveyed through (9:103) which says;  
 
خُذْ مِنْ أَمْوَٰلِهِمْ صَدَقَةً تُطَهِّرُهُمْ وَتُزَكِّيهِم بِهَا وَصَلِّ عَلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ صَلَوٰتَكَ سَكَنٌ لَّهُمْ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ  
 
You see? A clear indication that collection of ٱلصَّدَقَٰتُ is the responsibility of central authority or Government, and the verse further instruct the authorities to encourage those who contribute ٱلصَّدَقَٰتُ by providing them incentives.  
 
Please comment!  

Comments by: Abdun On 11 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam Junaid,  
 
I see no such requirement, a polycentric structure of society is demanded by the Qur'an, based within natural law, nothing within community is ever beyond local, goods are not community services, the ability to be supplied with goods is not a difficult facility to create within a polycentric community system, sourced from any location on the planet.  
 
What purpose do you think centralising has?  
 
If you concentrate the responsibilities of the people to a central authority, they are then a sovereign, as Allah is the only sovereign explain how that could be within the Qur'an.  
 
Are you not responsible for every decision you act upon, if a legal fiction of state makes decisions on your behalf are you still responsible, yes, as you gave them your authority.  
 
Natural law is the answer, structured within contract and the binding rope of surety bond between community members, as existed in the past in places of the earth.  
 
Charity by definition is a gift of free-will, no compulsion to take or even request, if you have a community, the collective local community can use whatever resources and labour its members wish to donate, no need to manufacture another pathocratic government.

Comments by: Junaid On 11 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
Brother Abdun, I totally agree with you that sovereignty belongs to Allah alone. However, we all need to understand that the concept of welfare state as mentioned in Quran, needs proper legislation and administration. This is what I understood from the following verse;  
 
يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓ۟ا أَطِيعُو۟ا ٱللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُو۟ا ٱلرَّسُولَ وَأُو۟لِى ٱلْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ (4:59  
 
If there is no concept of administration, what exactly does this term أُو۟لِى ٱلْأَمْرِ means?  
 
As per my understanding, Government or central authority does not mean one individual, rather it depends on the infrastructure or allocation of administrative duties / tasks. A community may have many administrative authorities at the same time. Isn't is possible?  
 
Also to mention that صَدَقَةً in my opinion, cannot be translated as "Charity", because of the reason that the word خُذْ has been used in (9:103) for صَدَقَةً and it says; خُذْ مِنْ أَمْوَٰلِهِمْ  
Here the word خُذْ has been used as "imperative verb" which means it is mandatory and not optional.  
However, the use of force is prohibited, since Quran says;  
لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ (2:256  
This simply means صَدَقَةً is to be recovered / received through proper legislation based on mutual consultation.  
 
Also to mention that the procedure of distribution is properly defined in (9:60). It it was "charity" then a formal process of collection and distribution wouldn't be needed.  
 
Please correct me if I am wrong!  

Comments by: Abdun On 11 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam,  
 
there are three basic tricks the elite of society rely on to allow them to remain the elite and to concentrate the resources of the community into their hands.  
 
The first one is ownership, people think they can buy and sell what they themselves did not create, we only have a right of use, a personal right of use and a communal right of use.  
 
If you apply an allodial right of use system the majority of the frauds upon the poor are removed, applied within local polycentric communities, that self govern, no need of a state, which would be a legal fiction.  
 
All legal fiction have to be recognised and removed from law, with the simple application of natural law, also known as the law of the land, we now suffer world wide the law of the See, Roman law.  
 
The second trick of the mind we need to recognise and remove is sovereignty, you cannot be gifted freedom from the granting of rights from a sovereign, the very fact the sovereign has granted you human rights makes you a slave, as a superior is granting an inferior man/woman a right or privilage.  
 
If you wish to be free only the environment you exist within can make you free, no amount of human rights granted by the elite will do that, in the modern world people look to sovereigns for many things, they delegate their personal responsibilities to who ever the media suggests, they look to experts, they look to what they see as the powerful, but it is their own power they delegate to those experts, they themselves have that power.  
 
The final trick of the mind is usury, Riba is the same word in the lexicons, so we need not struggle to understand Riba in isolation, we can investigate Usury a simpler task.  
 
People are living within a society founded on usury, they who call themselves Muslim look for ways to benefit from usury, tricking their own minds into believing Riba doesn't mean usury, or the definition of usury is only this or that limited concept.  
 
Usury is the theft of the fruits of another, if you lend a man a bag of potatoes and expect four bags of potatoes back, this is usury, you laboured in the creation of four times that you took.  
 
If you lend me your house, you are giving me the right of personal use, if the ownership of the legal fraud of state does not exist, then no state taxation exists, if the land is the gift of Allah then no cost of the land is attached to the property, if the legal fictions of legislation have been removed and only the law of the land applies, what are you charging for, in an Islamic system the economy is based in human energy, another way to say this is you can only own what you yourself create, if you labour for my benefit to make the house ready, if you maintain the property, if you provide services for me in the property, you could charge me the labour you have used, and I would pay you the labour back, but beyond that what are you charging for?  
 
The concept of being paid for something you hold without any labour being done to create that wealth is usury, you are extracting the fruits of the labours of another.  
 
Abdun Nur

Comments by: Junaid On 12 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Brother Abdun, I completely understand your noble intention and I agree with most of your points. However, I must say that your views reflects a kind of utopia or a perfect system which might not be a possibility under current situation. Perhaps there are few points which I still need to understand in a bit more detail.  
I'll try to share what I have understood from QURAN and I would request you to please share your views according to the verses I am about to quote. I am sure this will clear all the confusion at both ends.  
 
First of all, Quran says that there are different ranks / classifications of people in the society, based on diversity of their potential, aptitude, tendency, preference and efforts. Here is the reference;  
وَهُوَ ٱلَّذِى جَعَلَكُمْ خَلَٰٓئِفَ ٱلْأَرْضِ وَرَفَعَ بَعْضَكُمْ فَوْقَ بَعْضٍ دَرَجَٰتٍ لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِى مَآ ءَاتَىٰكُمْ (6:165  
 
Every human being has been granted different potential to invest labor, earn and spend.  
وَلَٰكِن لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْفِى مَآ ءَاتَىٰكُمْ فَٱسْتَبِقُو۟ا ٱلْخَيْرَٰتِ (5:48  
 
This means if a person invest more efforts and work harder, he has got the right to earn more. Another person putting in less efforts despite having same potential and aptitude, If earns less, then they both are not bound to have the same standard of living.  
Lets say a person earns 5000 $ and another one earns 10000$, it would be unfair if they both are left with 3000 $ each, where one gives away 7000$ and other only contributing 2000$ from his income. One of them will obviously have more wealth as compared to other, and this will automatically create a difference in their living standard.  
Quran confirms this in the following verse;  
وَلِكُلٍّ دَرَجَٰتٌ مِّمَّا عَمِلُو۟ا وَلِيُوَفِّيَهُمْ أَعْمَٰلَهُمْ وَهُمْ لَا يُظْلَمُونَ (46:19  
 
This is clear evidence that Quran does not prohibit wealth and the concept can be seen in the following verses;  
زُيِّنَ لِلنَّاسِ حُبُّ ٱلشَّهَوَٰتِ مِنَ ٱلنِّسَآءِ وَٱلْبَنِينَ وَٱلْقَنَٰطِيرِ ٱلْمُقَنطَرَةِ مِنَ ٱلذَّهَبِ وَٱلْفِضَّةِ وَٱلْخَيْلِ ٱلْمُسَوَّمَةِ وَٱلْأَنْعَٰمِ وَٱلْحَرْثِ ذَٰلِكَ مَتَٰعُ ٱلْحَيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنْيَا (3:14  
كُلُو۟ا وَٱشْرَبُو۟ا وَلَا تُسْرِفُوٓ۟ا (7:31  
قُلْ مَنْ حَرَّمَ زِينَةَ ٱللَّهِ ٱلَّتِىٓ أَخْرَجَ لِعِبَادِهِ وۦَٱلطَّيِّبَٰتِ مِنَ ٱلرِّزْقِ قُلْ هِىَ لِلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُو۟ا فِى ٱلْحَيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنْيَا (7:32  
 
Yes it's true that Quran confirms the concept of human labor in the following verses;  
وَلَا تَكْسِبُ كُلُّ نَفْسٍ إِلَّا عَلَيْهَا وَلَا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَىٰ (6:164  
أَلَّا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَىٰ (53:38  
وَأَن لَّيْسَ لِلْإِنسَٰنِ إِلَّا مَا سَعَىٰ (53:39  
وَأَنَّ سَعْيَهُ سۥَوْفَ يُرَىٰ (53:40  
ثُمَّ يُجْزَىٰهُ ٱلْجَزَآءَ ٱلْأَوْفَىٰ (53:41  
 
HOWEVER, QURAN DOES NOT PROHIBIT POSSESSION OF LAND OR CAPITAL.  
(Please show me the verses to prove otherwise)  
Only few things needs to be taken care of and they are;  
 
لا یکون دولۃ بین الاغنیاء منکم (59:07 ... wealth should not circulate exclusively among few riches of the society  
وَأَقِيمُو۟ا ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتُو۟ا ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ (2:43 (A concept of welfare state)  
وَجَعَلَ فِيهَا رَوَٰسِىَ مِن فَوْقِهَا وَبَٰرَكَ فِيهَا وَقَدَّرَ فِيهَآ أَقْوَٰتَهَافِىٓ أَرْبَعَةِ أَيَّامٍ سَوَآءً لِّلسَّآئِلِينَ (41:10 … bounties of earth to be equally shared by all  
وَٱلَّذِينَ فِىٓ أَمْوَٰلِهِمْ حَقٌّ مَّعْلُومٌ (70:24 … a known right for the needy and the deprived.  
 
It is true that ownership belongs to Allah alone, however the ownership is not just restricted to land only. Allah is the owner of everything and Quran confirms this as;  
ٱللَّهَ لَهُ مۥُلْكُ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ (2:107  
لِّلَّهِ مَا فِى ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَمَا فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ (2:284  
قُل لِّمَن مَّا فِى ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ (6:12  
 
This simply means that anything a man earns through labor (whether Gold, Silver or any other commodity), actually belongs to Allah. If man can earn Gold or silver, why can't he earn Land as well?  
If an individual earns wealth or land, it's his/her property and he/she has got all the rights to use it.  
Now comes the most important aspect of lending, where an individual needs land for shelter or for business. If he/she cannot afford to buy the land, then obviously lending or rental is the alternate option. Now if I have earned a piece of land and have spent some of my wealth to construct a building on it, I have got all the rights to demand something in return if anyone is willing to utilize it. What's wrong with this concept? WHERE DOES QURAN PROHIBITS LENDING OF LAND OR CAPITAL? (please show me the relevant verses)  
I am sharing my property with you and you are using it. Why can't I demand something in return?  
Do you think it's theft of labor? (Please prove it with proper references from Quran)  
 
I completely understand your concept of "Natural Law", and I agree with the following contents;  
Do what you all have agreed to do .... Do not encroach on other's property  
However, lending does not means encroachment. It is contract where both the parties sign a contract with mutual consent.  
 
I follow one law and that is QURAN. If Quran does not prohibits possession of land or capital, and if Quran does not prohibits lending or sharing, then its all legal for me. If you think I am wrong, please stipulate references from Quran to correct me. I am looking forward to learn something good from you!  
 
___________________________________________________________________________  
 
Reference to the concept of poly-centric community, I am still waiting for your comments on the following verse;  
 
يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓ۟ا أَطِيعُو۟ا ٱللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُو۟ا ٱلرَّسُولَ وَأُو۟لِى ٱلْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ (4:59  
 
I would like to request you to kindly explain the poly-centric community with reference to the above mentioned verse.  
What exactly will be the design / structure of a poly-centric community keeping in mind أَطِيعُو۟ا ٱللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُو۟ا ٱلرَّسُولَ وَأُو۟لِى ٱلْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ ?  

Comments by: Abdun On 12 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam Junaid,  
 
you are misunderstanding aspects of what I'm explaining, in natural law every man/woman are equal in sight of the law, but not all labour is equal, I never said all labour was equal, a cleaners labour is not the same as a butchers labour for example.  
 
In 4:59 you are given an account from Allah to a condition in which each thing is properly disposed with reference to other things and to its purpose; methodical or harmonious arranged, this account of order is supported by Muhammad and those in order with the Qur'an.  
 
I also have stated that you can only own what you yourself create, so Allah created the earth and all the resources of the earth, you can only charge the added value you input through your labours, I thought I made that quiet clear?  
 

Comments by: Junaid2 On 12 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
**(in natural law every man/woman are equal in sight of the law, but not all labour is equal, I never said all labour was equal, a cleaners labour is not the same as a butchers labour for example.) by Abdun  
 
Point noted and understood :)  
 
**(In 4:59 you are given an account from Allah to a condition in which each thing is properly disposed with reference to other things and to its purpose; methodical or harmonious arranged, this account of order is supported by Muhammad and those in order with the Qur'an. ) by Abdun  
 
Brother Abdun, this seems quite logical and it makes a lot of sense to me :)  
Somehow you have confirmed the concept of administration of state affairs ans responsibility of individuals.  
 
**(I also have stated that you can only own what you yourself create, so Allah created the earth and all the resources of the earth, you can only charge the added value you input through your labours) by Abdun  
 
I think your statement is more clear this time. As per my understanding you and I both agree that Quran does not prohibits Possession of Land or Capital.  
____________________________________________________________________________________  
 
Now only one question remains unanswered.  
Does Quran prohibits earning from lending?  
If someone cannot afford to buy land or building for shelter / business, I can lend the premises against a reasonable amount of return.  
OR  
If someone genuinely needs funds to invest somewhere, I can lend the required amount against a reasonable return.  
After all I am sharing my property / wealth which has been earned through physical or mental labor.  
Do you agree? If not then I would request you to correct me by providing reference from Quran.  
 
Note: As per my understanding, it is the responsibility of central repository to provide funds in form of interest free loan or loan with reasonable return, to finance purchase of equipment / machinery by an individual who needs to improve his/her production / out put.  
 
Lending by individuals is only meant to handle emergency situations where a person needs funds on urgent basis or when central repository is not in a position to provide more funds to a person.  
 
___________________________________________________________________________________  
 
Apart from the discussion, here is something for you to read;  
 
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/WhatIsGoingOn$$$.pdf  
 
I am sure you would like it :)

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 12 March 2011Report Abuse
Dear Abdun, not sure i understood your below statement.  
 
Abdun : "but not all labour is equal, I never said all labor was equal, a cleaners labour is not the same as a butchers labour for example."  
 
Mubashir : Its Humans that decide the realization of any labor and its been discriminated and exploited. All kinna works are important its only we who exploit. Please elaborate if you feel otherwise.  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: Abdun On 12 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam,  
I keep losing my posts, every now and then, when I post it moves on but the post has disappeared, gone, I'll try again, anyone else suffer this problem?  
 
Labour is valued by two forces, what you wish to charge and what another is willing to pay, under natural law no third party can steal a share for themselves, labour is only given value at the point of exchange.  
 
Muhammad never created the legal fiction of a State, he created a local polycentric community.  
The word community means common unity, if you do not know the members of your community it is just a collection of strangers. So local community is structured in small self-organised groups, I explain these models in the essays on my website, it would be simpler if you read those.  
 
What I suggest is the demanding of the law of the land, we have to establish natural (common) law to protect ourselves from the legal frauds, used by the accumulators of wealth to increase their accumulation and consolidation of control.  
 
As I said previously, you cannot buy the land, you can only buy the labour invested in the land, if no labour is invested the land is free.  
 
You only have a right of personal use, and as a community a right of communal use on common land or property.  
If you wish to use some land, you ask the local community, if there is not any claim personally from any man/woman, or any communal claim upon it, you claim it under allodial title, you can only claim what you yourself can use. Only a living man/woman can hold a right of use, no legal fiction of State, corporation or church, no document is recognised that gives ownership; it in itself being a legal fraud placed upon allodial use, through estate, this means no charter or deed is recognised, only a right of use.  
 
The concept of a superior and inferior man/woman is against natural law, so the modern business structure of boss, worker is against natural law. I explain the business model of natural law on my website, I give examples, a supermarket, a clothes shop, to make this understood.

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 12 March 2011Report Abuse
Dear Abdun, Yes the issue of disappearance of post is witnessed sometimes, but no so often.  
 
I humbly disagree with your below comment.  
 
Abdun : Labour is valued by two forces, what you wish to charge and what another is willing to pay, under natural law no third party can steal a share for themselves, labour is only given value at the point of exchange.  
 
Mubashir : Gap in realization of labor for different skills should be minimised to achieve more evenness in society. This methodology is found better in western countries with possitive results of more evenness among masses. Not sure why mental ability is given huge benefit over physical ability in east. And I think i cant make you change your mind even if you are wrong coz of my inability.  
 
For your 4 models on your website, Please consider it as my inablity to understand. For me things revolved around intellectual thoughts but was not zeroing down for me.  
 
Note : Bothers Aurangzaib, AlAhmer, Momin, Naushad, Sis Nargis and other participants would you like to put your thoughts/opinion bout 4 models represented by bro Abdun on his website, please ?  
 
http://www.servantofthelight.com  
 
4 models represented  
Allodial right of use, Polycentric community, Common Law, Human energy economic resystem.  
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.  

Comments by: Abdun On 12 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam Mubashir,  
 
its a nobel perspective to wish all to receive an equal return on their labour,but infact it would be an encroachment upon others to dictate your values upon them, beyond that this generates problems, if you could be a doctor but would only be paid the same as a cleaner, why would you spend years studying and gaining the skills required, you could save yourself the cost and effort, just start cleaning?  
 
If you examine the system used in mercant ships, were each member of the crew received a share of the profits,the captain only got 2 shares, while an able seaman got 1 share, the gain does not need to be huge, it is always limited by market forces, anything is only worth what another is willing to pay, this is corrupted in the modern world through widespread and integral monopolies.  
 

Comments by: Junaid2 On 13 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Good point brother Abdun. I think I agree with you on the fact that efforts should count more than the outcome. If someone has spent time to learn and master a particular skill, any labor whether physical or mental, invested by him should have a better return.  
Quran says;  
وَأَنَّ سَعْيَهُ سۥَوْفَ يُرَىٰ (53:40  
ثُمَّ يُجْزَىٰهُ ٱلْجَزَآءَ ٱلْأَوْفَىٰ (53:41  
A job requiring skilled mental/physical labor cannot be done by unskilled labor and therefore skilled labor costs more than unskilled one. We can use the example of HSMP where mostly European countries import skilled labor and provide them opportunities to work and stay there for longer periods.  
_______________________________________________________________________________  
 
Anyway, just to remind you that my question is still unanswered;  
Let me repeat it;  
 
Does Quran prohibits earning from lending?  
If someone cannot afford to buy land or building for shelter / business, I can lend the premises against a reasonable amount of return.  
OR  
If someone genuinely needs funds to invest somewhere, I can lend the required amount against a reasonable return.  
After all I am sharing my property / wealth which has been earned through physical or mental labor.  
Do you agree? If not then I would request you to correct me by providing reference from Quran.  
 
Note: As per my understanding, it is the responsibility of central repository to provide funds in form of interest free loan or loan with reasonable return, to finance purchase of equipment / machinery by an individual who needs to improve his/her production / out put. Central repository is also responsible to finance any technical education required by a person to improve his/her skills.  
 
Lending by individuals is only meant to handle emergency situations where a person needs funds on urgent basis or when central repository is not in a position to provide more funds to a person.  

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 13 March 2011Report Abuse
Dear Abdun, I would humbly disagree again…...please find my comment inline  
 
Abdun : if you could be a doctor but would only be paid the same as a cleaner, why would you spend years studying and gaining the skills required, you could save yourself the cost and effort, just start cleaning?  
 
Mubashir :  
 
1. Why would Abdun spend his life in research and put efforts to make people understand.  
2. Why parents would look after their children.  
3. Why people need to burn out ( work hard ) to support others.  
4. Why people need to be momin ( Peace provider )  
5. Why people need to be muslim ( One who protects rights of others )  
 
And the list goes on n on ………..and am sure you can give a better list than I can.  
 
We might be having different perception of this “WHY” so lets not get into this as we might get deviated from topic.  
 
Lets say X factor. So for this X factor people should spend years studying and gaining skills.  
 
Another theory, lazy people to get away from physical work in future might spend years studying. ( just kidding……..but can be a theory)  
 
Dear Junaid, if every thing is taken care by state why would an individual need personal loan..........just a thought  
 
Note : With no intension to offend or defend just 2 cents with my meager knowledge………  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.  
 

Comments by: Abdun On 13 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam Mubashir,  
 
from you perspective you wish to adopt the communist perspective of an all powerful state, what if I do not want to be part of your state, and I don't, would you compel me to comply to the dictates of your state, what if I wish to retain and stand upon my inalienable rights, which I do, would you prevent me from standing upon my natural rights?  
 
What if I wished to travel the surface of the earth and experience the wonders Allah has created, without asking permission, or paying tolls to your states, would you impose your taxes, dictates and restrictions upon me, this would make you a jail keeper and slave master.  
 
The natural (Common) law is the key to a free environment, a state will enslave and ultimately destroy humanity, look around you, in the world of states today if you have money in the bank, and your wallet you are among the top 8% of the worlds wealthy.  
 
If you have never experienced the dangers of battle, the agony of iniquitous imprisonment or torture, the horrors of the torment of starvation, you are luckier than 500 million of others at this very moment.  
 
If you can read this in any language you are more fortunate than 3000 million others.  
 
If you have food to spare, clothes to choose from, a roof over your head and a safe place to sleep you are favoured over 75% of people who suffer shortage and vulnerability every day.  
 
Why do you think the majority of people exist in poverty, ignorance, and fear?  
 
The pathocracies that function upon the divisions of the surface of the earth impose these miseries, and we support them through delusions carefully implanted by the education systems, media and politicians.  
 
If we examine the methods used by the pathocracies to exploit and subjugate the family of Adam.  
 
If we start with the true structure of society, with an example; allodially holding two cows, a field and a house at the start.  
 
Feudalism  
 
Using force of arms a self titled lord takes ownership of your allodial rights of use and removes all your inalienable rights, and bestows them upon his sovereign, who owns you, your cows, your field, and your home and all within it. You work your land for your imposed lord, who shares with his sovereign the fruits of your labour. You must labour daily just to retain the use of your home and to be allowed to grow food for yourself and your family in the little time you have spare; you and your families lives and actions are held hostage to the whims and demands of your lord, and your lords sovereign.  
 
Representative Democracy  
 
An extension of feudalism; a legal fiction is placed upon allodial use, creating estate, the administration of estate is conducted by the state, conferring ownership of your property to that fiction and making you tenant and leaser of your own property, so demanding a tax upon holdings, using the threat of imprisonment, and the extortion penalties to establish compliance. Another legal fiction is placed upon the law of the land and the law of the See is imposed to remove your inalienable rights. Through the fictions of legislation the imposed monopoly of services is established, within the confines of the corporation, these constructed institutionalised frauds build and corrupt the state corporation further, all legitimised through the use of ballots, allowing the blame for the corruption and frauds to be apportioned upon the population held within the region of estate their corporation holds dominion, not the corporation or its institutions.  
 
“Political voting accomplishes nothing productive and only gives legitimacy to a gang of killers, thieves and liars; men and women incapable or unwilling to provide a service people will voluntarily pay for. The people who vote politically have no power because they have no real choice whether or not they want the services provided by government. Political democracy is a scam; it's called a false choice.”  
 
Bureaucratic Government  
 
An extension of representative democracy; regulation is the life blood of bureaucracy best defined as the encroachment upon the individual. You need their permission to act and must pay their fees to gain their permission, you need to comply to their regulations and dictates, you need to follow their invented processes of legislation upon your inalienable rights through the creation of legal fictions. They require your consent to act upon you, to gain this they intimidate through the threat of physical force, the theft of your possessions, or imprisonment.  
 
"Justice and fairness is not the end goal of bureaucrats. The end goal is domination and taking money and property by force. Their purpose is to steal as much money and property as 'legally' possible, using the least amount of violence and coercion."  
 
Russian Communism  
 
An extension of Bureacratic government; you and your family are utterly held at the dictates of the state corporation, you are directed to act by the bureaucrats, as a cog in a machine, you exist to serve the state, within strict regulation under the threat of execution, iniqitious imprisonment or perminent relocation.  
 
World Capitalism  
 
The three frauds upon the people are integral to this destructive overarching world government, founded on ownership, placed upon, so obsuring, allodial uses, dominated through sovereignty, placed upon, so obsuring, the individuals inalienable rights, and executed through usury in its miriad forms.  
 
And you wish to champion the State?

Comments by: Junaid2 On 13 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
**(if every thing is taken care by state why would an individual need personal loan) by Mubashir Syed  
 
Dear Mubashir, it is true that welfare state takes care of basic necessities like food, shelter, health, education etc. However, the concept of welfare has to be at minimum level where only the basic necessities are to be taken care of. Anyone willing to have a better standard of living, needs to work hard and earn it. It is very important to understand that too much welfare will make people lazy and this is not the purpose of welfare system.  
As I have mentioned earlier in my posts, there is a diversity in tendencies, aptitudes, tastes, preferences, abilities and potentials which results in different ranks or classes in a particular society. Another important aspect which needs to be considered here is diversity of labor or professions which is a mandatory requirement of a healthy socio-economic system. These concepts are quite natural and they are supported by Quran.  
So what I mean to say is that an individual having the desire to live a better life, will try and improve his/her output and in order to create more avenues, the person will definitely be needing financial assistance, beyond the coverage of general welfare.  
One will definitely be needing some technical education as well as equipment / machinery to improve his/her skills and output, if he/she is looking for a better standard of living.  
 
I hope this explanation will help you understand why one would need personal loans :)

Comments by: Junaid2 On 13 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
**(If we start with the true structure of society, with an example; allodially holding two cows, a field and a house at the start) by Abdun  
 
Brother Abdun, I think I am getting confused here :)  
As I said earlier, your concepts of Islamic system reflects a kind of utopia or perfection which is almost impossible to be implemented in the current scenario where corporations and sovereigns are almost everywhere.  
Please tell me where will you find a land to establish such system?  
Which part of this world is free today?  
Where in this world of corporations and sovereigns, will you migrate without visa or passport?  
Where will you find the pieces of lands which are not to be registered with any government?  
Go to any desert, Island, forest or plane land, every part of this world is under control of one government or another and all these governments are already subservient to some Rockefeller or Rothschild and their banks or corporations. Who will allow you to purchase and own a piece of land without registering it to local authorities?  
How could you expect local governments and the corporations, not interfering in your life and your system?  
With so many armies and lethal weapons, who will allow your community to own and use natural resources?  
Which government will allow you to conduct your business activities within it's boundaries and without paying taxes?  
Which country will allow you to reject it's currency, crate your own repository and use gold or silver within it's premises?  
OR  
Are you planning to build a spacecraft and move to Mars or some other planet to start a poly-centric community based on the concepts of Allodial Earth?  
 
I think we need to find a practical solution from within the existing system, because we are not in a position to create separate communities in todays world of 21st century.

Comments by: Abdun On 13 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam Junaid,  
 
you are not grasping the situation of the modern system, I am saying the law itself generates the systems everywhere, every modern court is required to apply natural (common) law, they do not, but we can force them to comply to the natural law, it is the law of the land, they say we have waived the inalienable rights of natural law because we have never declared them in writing!  
 
I have studied the land laws created to hide the allodial nature of rights of use, again this in law is the underlying model, its just we are ingnorant of it, we can apply allodial land law everywhere.  
 
The fictions confuse the mind of the people, education is the answer.  
 
The first thing to create the natural or Islamic systems if you prefer is to understand the full nature of the law of the land, free of the fiction manufactured to hide the truth.  
 
Then natural law must be written out in full as a community contract, in a structure as I explain on my website, this means you have not waived your rights, as they are declared in contract.  
 
I t would be a struggle to over come all the fictions the parasites have created at the start, but numbers of people joining and understanding the law, as opposed to the legislation of the paparsites would slowly transform the systems.  
 
This is not utopia, it is your birth right, we are everywhere born into slavery, poverty and misery, don't you think its time to stop.

Comments by: Junaid2 On 13 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Dear Abdun, I can understand that the natural law you are trying to explain, does comply with Quranic instructions in general. However, the problem is that no one seems interested and no one is willing to understand these concepts. The struggle you are talking about will only be possible if others join you, but I don't see any initiatives being taken from any side.  
 
I think you are doing a good job, trying to educate others with the help of your website and lectures, but tell me how many people do you think have joined you? I can see that no one is showing interest except 5 or 6 people and even those few people are not fully aligned with your ideology.  
 
Same is the case with Aastana, where people like Dr. Qamar and few others are doing an excellent job, trying to explore the true message of Quran and to educate others, but the members of this forum are so few that they can be counted on finger tips. These few members (including me of course), are more inclined towards theoretical discussions rather than practical solutions.  
 
I would not count Our Beacon in this category because it reflects a kind of dictatorship instead of a learning environment. The moment you show some disagreement with QXP, you'll face an extreme level of censorship and insulting behavior. I would rather call it an un-Quranic forum and it cannot be counted in this list.  
 
Freeminds.org is another forum I've heard of, but I don't know much about those people and I've never been there, so I would prefer not comment about it.  
 
As a general observation, I can say that all those who possess good understanding of Quran, are divided and doing efforts on their own, without realizing the importance of combined efforts. Probably egos are too high or may be a lot of Quran oriented people are inclined towards a kind of arrogance which makes it difficult for them to accept someone else's point of view. (this is just a personal observation and I may be wrong here)  
As a matter of fact, I haven't seen any positive practical solutions on any such forum till now and all these places have proven to be unsuccessful as far as results are concerned.  
 
Dear brother, considering the above mentioned situation as well as the fact that 7 billion people in today's world are completely brainwashed, how do you expect such a transformation?  
Do you really think few people who understand the truth, yet divided in different groups and moving towards different directions, can transform the system?

Comments by: Damon On 13 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam Dear Junaid, Abdun Nur and Aastana Family and Friends,  
 
I feel that I should add some thoughts after reading Junaid's latest post above.  
 
JUNAID - "Dear Abdun, I can understand that the natural law you are trying to explain, does comply with Quranic instructions in general. However, the problem is that no one seems interested and no one is willing to understand these concepts. The struggle you are talking about will only be possible if others join you, but I don't see any initiatives being taken from any side. "  
 
I think you are doing a good job, trying to educate others with the help of your website and lectures, but tell me how many people do you think have joined you? I can see that no one is showing interest except 5 or 6 people and even those few people are not fully aligned with your ideology.  
 
Same is the case with Aastana, where people like Dr. Qamar and few others are doing an excellent job, trying to explore the true message of Quran and to educate others, but the members of this forum are so few that they can be counted on finger tips."  
 
DAMON - You have raised some very key and pertinent points with these thoughts and views Junaid. If possible I would like to make an attempt at addressing them towards the ending of my reply. But first...  
 
JUNAID - "These few members (including me of course), are more inclined towards THEORETICAL DISCUSSIONS rather than PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS. "  
 
DAMON - This is a hurdle that MUST be jumped over if we are to appropriately move ahead with the "Propagation of Quran" movement. And it really isn't an easy hurdle to jump over. I for one believe that the time has come to not only migrate from theoretical discussions to practical solutions but also to migrate from the internet domain into the real world and to initiate serious grass-roots work. The only way to make sense of 2/24 and all of the other "Surah like it challenges" is to make manifest the Quranic implementation so the people can see the "results" of the "Surahs" that are being challenged.  
 
Where this becomes tricky is the risk of a census being prematurely agreed upon that may prove to be incorrect later down the road, hence the ongoing "theoretical discussions" in the hopes of unanimously arriving at the correct conclusions BEFORE taking steps towards "practical solutions". But these theoretical discussions will never end since we are dealing with multiple people which means of course multiple personalities, multiple experiences, multiple levels of knowledge, insight and understanding and multiple dispositions and temperaments. So, if we restrict ourselves merely to theoretical discussions, then we take the risk being stuck there because of the above mentioned elements of such discussions.  
 
I believe the solution to this is initiate the practical steps towards solutions based upon what we understand thus far and (here's the key) be WILLING and ABLE to make the appropriate "amendments" to our Quranic views and understandings when the evidence warrants it. I suggest the "process of elimination" solutions in which we only know that we got it right when it works for all of mankind. If it doesn't work, then we don't have it right, which means we must "eliminate" the understanding and related solution and move on to the next possible understanding and solution.  
 
JUNAID - "I would not count Our Beacon in this category because it reflects a kind of dictatorship instead of a learning environment. The moment you show some disagreement with QXP, you'll face an extreme level of censorship and insulting behavior. I would rather call it an un-Quranic forum and it cannot be counted in this list. "  
 
DAMON - I must say that I agree with this 1000%. The level of disappointment and even disgust that I have for ourbeacon and "their mullah" I never would have imagined could be a possibility.  
 
JUNAID - "Freeminds.org is another forum I've heard of, but I don't know much about those people and I've never been there, so I would prefer not comment about it. "  
 
DAMON - Well, you can always go and investigate for yourself. However, if you are willing to take my word for it, then let me tell you that they are a tad bit worse than ourbeacon. The culture there and the "clique mentality" that is prevalent there has shaped what I call a "weird, do what you want it's all good, hippie, new age" type of Islam. This is just my assessment of that forum as a "former member and poster" there.  
 
Okay now, my addressing of the other concerns...  
 
JUNAID - "As a general observation, I can say that all those who possess good understanding of Quran, are divided and doing efforts on their own, without realizing the importance of combined efforts. Probably egos are too high or may be a lot of Quran oriented people are inclined towards a kind of arrogance which makes it difficult for them to accept someone else's point of view. (this is just a personal observation and I may be wrong here)  
As a matter of fact, I haven't seen any positive practical solutions on any such forum till now and all these places have proven to be unsuccessful as far as results are concerned.  
 
Dear brother, considering the above mentioned situation as well as the fact that 7 billion people in today's world are completely brainwashed, how do you expect such a transformation?  
Do you really think few people who understand the truth, yet divided in different groups and moving towards different directions, can transform the system?"  
 
DAMON - I can only give you MY thoughts based upon MY present understanding of the Quranic message. And in my present understanding I believe that the message of the quran requires "alladheena amanoo" (those with CONVICTION in the quranic ideology) to initiate a "revolution" and an eventual "Munqalabin" (PLACE and TIME of overthrowing) of the present non quranic systems in place.  
 
Undoubtedly mass education is the key to gather the members who will be "al mumineen" in our proposed solutions to the present world chaos. And I have a suggestion to find and gather those people and that is through this website. We are all spread about the earth but we have the same responsibilities of spreading around the aastana mission and website. If we do that in our respective locales, we can succeed in eventually gathering enough people to collaborate with for the implementation of our proposed solutions. And HOW we do that is in the following two ways...  
 
1). We can print out and distribute Dr QZ's books and articles en masse. We just have to stop being shy about doing this. A sister by the name of Lubna said at the ourbeacon forum that Dr QZ Saheb keeps a stock of his books at his medical office which he freely gives away to his patients and all who visit him. And she said that he does this even in the face of threats and the ire of his environment. Those of us living in intellectually freer societies have no excuse.  
 
2). Engage with the people. First, gain the quranic wisdom and knowledge through Dr QZ saheb's writings and "share" that knowledge with others...IN PERSON!!! BE the embodiment of the wisdom and knowledge and gather others who may prove to be of like mind. I have a look at this short piece from the quranic teachings site http://www.quranicteachings.co.uk/leading_by_example.htm Follow the advice on the "mission and vision" page at the bottom in which we pose thought provoking questions in order to drag people of their tunnel visions and comfort zones. Just as Socrates was the gadfly of Athens, we too must do the same. Do this and invite people to the aastana mission and website to learn more.  
 
This will take some time but it is doable if we stay the course and get off of our computers for a while. By staying in front of the keyboards and monitors and not doing anything practical in the real world, we are nothing more than armchair scholars who are content to "discuss" things rather than doing something.  
 
I live in a city of roughly 300,000 people. If I do the above two exercises and STAY THE COURSE, within a year or two I may be able to have at least 100-200 people WITH WHOM I can collaborate on Quranic projects in order to bring about "Practical Quranic Solutions".  
 
We can continue to discuss things and make amendments to our understanding as we make the appropriate progress, but for the sake of humanity, let's at least START THE PROCESS!!!  
 
Some relevant info to consider:  
 
http://www.quranicteachings.co.uk/how_to_combat_evil.htm  
 
http://www.quranicteachings.co.uk/belief-actions.htm  
 
http://www.quranicteachings.co.uk/conviction_without_conduct.htm  
 
http://quranicteachings.co.uk/aamaal-e-saliha.htm  
 
Fi'amanillah,  
Damon.  

Comments by: Abdun On 13 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam,  
 
the structure I'm promoting existed in the past and functioned for centuries without internal conflict or injustice, additionally these models are already the law of the land and simply denied us through legal fictions, which can easily be disregarded if the law is understood, as the free men on the land are doing.  
 
I don't think Muslims really want or like Islam, in general they love things that oppose Islam too much, this is why I'm no longer pursuing Muslims to accept Islam, and have been giving talks to those who recognise that the law of the land is the way to freedom. If Muslims notice that something other than a worthless religion exists they are welcome to join in, and follow Islam, which is a way to exist socially within this world.  
 
 
 

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 14 March 2011Report Abuse
Dear Abdun, its not about any “ism” its bout need of the hour to achieve desired results.  
 
1. Why would Abdun spend his life in research and put efforts to make people understand.  
2. Why parents would look after their children.  
3. Why people need to burn out ( work hard ) to support others.  
4. Why people need to be momin ( Peace provider )  
5. Why people need to be muslim ( One who protects rights of others )  
 
Above examples were considered to make you understand why a person would spend years studying and/or learning skills without realization being motive behind. I had a feeling topic might deviate from there on and tried to contain it by using X factor, but in vain.  
 
Was wondering how a plumber/cleaner/cab driver can earn a decent life in west when compared to their brethren in east…………………not sure if this thought is communist!!!!!  
 
Communism has got a bad image globally so relating things to it get concepts a negetive image.  
 
Dear Badar, Your thoughts ?  
 
Note : With no intensions to offend,  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: Abdun On 14 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam Mubashir,  
 
you are making my point, no matter what is said you refuse to hear, you wish to encroach upon others with your states, legislations, taxations and sovereigns, and believe yourself righteous, you think you have a right to impose your equal pay system upon the community, justified because you think a parent looks after their child without cost, so we should all study and gain knowledge and skills and gift it all freely because altruism is not a choice but a thing, you think, can be enforced, that is a tyranny.  
 
I will state again, Allah is the ONLY sovereign.  
Allah is the ONLY owner of the earth and the resources of the Earth.  
Allah is at war with Usury.  
 
You need to grasp a simple premise, you have no right to impose anything upon another man/woman beyond natural law.  
 
Natural law is very simple,  
 
You must do all you have agreed to do, this is because you yourself have given committment to that.  
 
You cannot encroach upon another man/woman or their property.  
 
This is all natural law really is, torts which means wrongful acts, are the encroachments the committee plea has established through victims demanding consideration, and achieved remedy.  
 
Why a person spends years studying is the business of each individual, who are you to make it altruistic?

Comments by: Junaid2 On 14 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
**(justified because you think a parent looks after their child without cost, so we should all study and gain knowledge and skills and gift it all freely because altruism is not a choice but a thing, you think, can be enforced, that is a tyranny.) by Abdun  
 
Brother Abdun, I would request you to please elaborate the above quoted statement.  
 
Also please compare it with the following statement of yours earlier on;  
 
**(Charity by definition is a gift of free-will, no compulsion to take or even request, if you have a community, the collective local community can use whatever resources and labour its members wish to donate, no need to manufacture another pathocratic government.) by Abdun  
 
I would also request you to please do keep in mind that there are people like me, having the lower mental level who needs simplest words to comprehend. Therefore I am expecting a simple yet detailed elaboration.  
 
_________________________________________________________________________________  
 
Brother Damon, your comments were simply awesome :)  
 
Although you and I live in different regions of the world, but still I must say that I am with you and you can count on me anytime, anywhere!  
Let's change as many minds as we can ... and lets make as much difference as possible.

Comments by: Abdun On 14 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam,  
 
its very simple a state compels the population to accept its services without choice.  
 
That is what a government is, it compels its services through intimidation and coercion.  
 
Islam demands NO compulsion.  
 
Charity is a gift, it is no longer charity if the state compels it, it is an encroachment upon another.  
 
The key is free choice, without compulsion, who are you to compel another to be subjugated to what you think is right.  
 
Natural law is the only way forward.

Comments by: Junaid2 On 14 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Thank you for your input brother Abdun.  
I would like to mention that your views are quite logical. All I would request you is to kindly share a practical design with all of us here. I know it's already there on your website but the problem is that majority of people need simple words to understand.  
 
Please share your views regarding the following points according to your analysis;  
 
Where and How will this system be implemented?  
How will this system function?  
Does this system needs a state?  
If yes then who will handle the welfare system and how?  
Who will handle the central repository and how?  
Who will be the representatives and how will they be chosen?  
Who will administer the system?  
What will be the structure of administration or government?  
Who's responsibility will it be to implement natural law and how?  
Who will implement the social and criminal laws and how?  
Who will define the legislation and how do you expect it to be followed by everyone?  
What would be the rules of ownership, specially for Land and Natural resources?  
Who will handle the collection and distribution of funds?  
Who will monitor the economic activities on the basis of Micro and Macro economics?  
Who will plan and handle the demand and supply, growth and business cycle?  
Who will handle the prices and how will equilibrium be determined?  
How will return of labor be determined?  
Who will plan the fiscal and monetary policies?  
What kind of economic activities will be there?  
What will be counted in "AL Riba" and what will be exempted?  
Who will plan and implement the international economic structure?  
What will be the role of technocrats and who will they be?  
What will be the return of services provided by administrators?  
 
In short, you need to define a brief overall structure of an ideal system as per your understanding, keeping in mind the above mentioned questions.  
 
I know there are too many questions, but I can't help myself from asking :)  
You can call it my enthusiasm, or willingness to learn what we are supposed to do actually.  
And what practical steps you have taken in this regard? Any plans for suture?  
 
For the sake of those who are interested, I would request you to please share your understanding with us.  
 
 

Comments by: Abdun On 14 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam,  
Where and How will this system be implemented?  
All courts are founded on natural law, this means it is implementable anywhere on earth, just as the freemen on the land idea is gaining power it is based on this fact.  
 
How will this system function?  
It functions on local community, nothing higher, communities are link through common objectives or defence.  
 
Does this system needs a state?  
No, a state is a legal fiction, all legal fictions stand against natural law.  
 
If yes then who will handle the welfare system and how?  
The welfare is a local responsibility of the local community, they have welfare for themselves, based upon in part Islamic insurance.  
 
Who will handle the central repository and how?  
Anyone can establish a local repository, as long as its structured correctly it would function under the restrictions of natural law, which prevents a superior, inferior structure as well as a usury model.  
 
Who will be the representatives and how will they be chosen?  
Representative of what?  
 
Who will administer the system?  
It need no administration beyond specialty  
 
What will be the structure of administration or government?  
Polycentric community, no government, only specialty administration.  
 
Who's responsibility will it be to implement natural law and how?  
The establishment of a moot system, and natural (common) law community contract, with a surety of contracted bonds between men/women, as the foundation of the moot, with those who work to champion the cause of the weak.  
 
Who will implement the social and criminal laws and how?  
A twelve peer committee plea, randomly selected and periodically cycled members of the community serve as giving the dictates of the jury upon torts (wrongful acts) remedy.  
 
Who will define the legislation and how do you expect it to be followed by everyone?  
There is no legislation upon natural law, none is required, a victim identifies an encroachment and demands the committee plea of 12 peers to consider the claim through discourse and conclude a remedy.  
 
What would be the rules of ownership, specially for Land and Natural resources?  
You only own what you yourself create. You cannot own the land or the resources of Allah, but you own your own labour.  
 
Who will handle the collection and distribution of funds?  
The specialty administrator is given what people wish and they can use the resources they have to organise and improve the service. Its always local, its always intimate, its always open to investigation by the individual.  
 
Who will monitor the economic activities on the basis of Micro and Macro economics?  
It is based on credit not debt, it requires little oversight, as it is free of usury, which removes, stocks, commodity, pension, fiat money, futures markets, you cannot steal the fruits of another.  
 
Who will plan and handle the demand and supply, growth and business cycle?  
There is no cycles of boom and bust as they are manufactured by the banksters. The business is structured differently within natural law, you cannot have a superior and inferior man/woman, so you cannot have a boss, employee, a different structure is demanded.  
 
Who will handle the prices and how will equilibrium be determined?  
Without taxation, usury and legislation costs are reduced to a fraction of the present, earnings are increased at the same time. Prices are determined by the people selling, or working through market forces, but people who are focused on wealth accumulation may not be as common place under a different structure.  
 
How will return of labor be determined?  
It functions on a shared burden and return, as explained on my website examples.  
 
Who will plan the fiscal and monetary policies?  
No need, it is based on human energy, not fiat fraud.  
 
What kind of economic activities will be there?  
Much the same, but without the parasites, where people recognise they are within their community and work as a part of that as opposed to a state imposing itself upon them which removes community.  
 
What will be counted in "AL Riba" and what will be exempted?  
You cannot take the fruits of another through fraud, theft, deception or conspiracy.  
 
Who will plan and implement the international economic structure?  
Nothing is beyond local, never was, it’s a trick of the elite.  
 
What will be the role of technocrats and who will they be?  
In an environment that is free, you have a place of growth and transformation where the individual is given free rein to express and explore, to develop and invent.  
 
What will be the return of services provided by administrators?  
Services can be funded as used, such as rubbish collection, through gifts, such as street lights, or as wanted such as hospitals through Islamic insurance.  

Comments by: Junaid On 14 March 2011Report Abuse
Brother Abdun, Thank you for a detailed input. I would request the respected members of aastana to please contribute their thoughts and views on this very important topic.  
 
________________________________________________________________________________________  
 
Dear Abdun, I do agree with most of what you wrote and I am looking forward to hear your future plans (if there are any) regarding steps to be taken to create an environment.  
Also to mention that I would like to participate / contribute in all such plans or discussions by any individual or group whatsoever.

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 15 March 2011Report Abuse
Dear Abdun, there are alwayz two sides of a coin. If i am not understanding does not mean i am wrong, the other person is not able to make me understand which makes him wrong as well.  
 
I think am questioning here and not representing any concept. I hope i might understand your concept someday........  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: Abdun On 15 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam Mubashir,  
 
I see the concepts so clearly, and they make so much sense, allodial rights of use, natural law, polycentric community and human energy economics, that I may fail in my attempts to make others see it as clearly, if you have the time and if you want to consider these models, I would find it useful if you and any others who wish to, would read the four models and point out what does not make sense, what other questions need to be addressed, whatever thoughts you would offer, this would help to explain these things for everyone interested with more clarity.

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 15 March 2011Report Abuse
Dear Abdun, thanks for your good words. Your 4 models are for sure under my radar. I wont deny anything before understanding and as i already said coz of my inability i was unable to zero it down.  
 
Not sure bout your other concepts but yes for sure your 4 models for practical implementation are worth scrutinizing and accepting if it makes sense.  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: Damon On 20 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam Dear Junaid, Abdun-Nur and Aastana Family,  
 
This may look radical or it may even appear "odd" to some of you, but I am calling your attention to the Cal-Earth organization in California, United States ( http://calearth.org/ )  
 
There focus is on building housing (any style, any size) and other essential building structures from the "Natural Ingredients/Elements" available from the planet earth itself.  
 
They are a 501 (C)3 non-profit/charitable foundation and according to the home page of their website their mission is summed up in the paragraph below...  
 
"Cal-Earth's mission is guided by three principles: (1) shelter is a basic human right, (2) every human being should be able to build a house for him or herself, and (3) the best way to provide shelter for the exponentially increasing human population is by building with earth."  
 
Regards,  
Damon.

Comments by: Junaid On 20 March 2011Report Abuse
Brother Damon, this is quite interesting!  
Thanks for sharing the link :)

Comments by: Damon On 21 March 2011Report Abuse
Dear Junaid and other Aastana Family Members,  
 
The idea of migration is exemplified (in my humble understanding) by almost all of the Rasool and Nabiyy in The Quran. People like Mohammed Ali Jinnah and Marcus Garvey also had that same spirit as they all realized that quite possibly the ONLY WAY to truly and seriously ESTABLISH a society and welfare state based upon the Quranic Constitution is to establish it from scratch with the initial members (though initially small in number) made up of those who realized the importance of such a big step and had the firm conviction to do it.  
 
I am also of the humble (yet firm) opinion that WE should not go about asking ANY HUMAN BEINGS for "permission" to establish this society somewhere OR to "purchase" land and licenses. I believe we should just exercise audacity and do what we know we must do.  
 
I believe the knowledge that the people of the Cal Earth organization are sharing can be a tremendous asset for making such a move.  
 
Those are my thoughts.  
 
Regards,  
Damon.

Comments by: Junaid On 21 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Brother Damon, This is quite logical and thought provoking. I would request you to please share views in a bit more detail if possible.  
 
Brother Abdun, are you still here? Please share your thoughts on brother Damon's views.

Comments by: Abdun On 22 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam,  
 
by profession I am a builder, building mud houses isn't the answer to the creation of community, neither is emigrating, the entire planet is now dominated by the systems of enslavement, ownership, usury and sovereignty, so you cannot escape it by relocating.  
The best things to construct homes are materials found locally, in the UK for example under the ground in many places you find clay, so firing bricks is a sustainable and enduring , in other places sandstone is readily available, in others granite, in others slate, diversity is always the true nature of this world.  

Comments by: Damon On 23 March 2011Report Abuse
Dear Abdun,  
 
You TOTALLY missed the point and I can boldly state that your position (based upon your words above) is not substantiated by The Quran.

Comments by: Abdun On 23 March 2011 Edit DeleteReport Abuse
Salaam Damon,  
 
I thought the establishment of a community the answer in the past, in a new location, but have revised my perspective, I no longer wish to escape the tyranny of the establishment, if indeed that were possible, I wish to demonstrate Islam in the heart of that tyranny.  
 
If the tyranny is smothering the world, how can it be escaped, building mud houses is not the answer, following the authority of a so called leader is not the answer, marching, waging war is not the answer.  
 
What have I stated that has TOTALLY gone against the Qur'an?  
 
You are free to pursue your isolated community model, I have decided to pursue a more adventurous path, if the people in the heart of the usury Model can demonstrate the true Islamic models it would sweep the earth, this system is dying, but unless the systems of Islam are demonstrated the accumulated wealth elite will simple establish a new master slave structure.

»«
OTHER QUESTIONS ON
MISCONCEPTIONS
Dear Dr Qamar sahib, When I read 2:106, I feel that this verse is not about the abrogation but about a general law of Allah SWT for all things He creates. Do you think this is correct understanding? Could not elaborate due to space limit. Wassalam. Question by: Anwer Suri From UNITED STATES On 28/02/2010
 
Is saying Allah-o-Akbar OK? I feel that it is not right. Question by: Anwer Suri From UNITED STATES On 07/03/2010
 
Dr. Qamarzaman regar plz elaborate.Sending massengers in each nation ammongst them to distinguesh HAQ& BATIL when ever mankind detrack. 16/36,3/164,2/129,9/128,40/34,28/59,39/71,3/101,20/134,23/32 is this sunnattullah is going on,if not why imparity. Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 19/03/2010
 
dear Dr Qamarzaman sahib thankyou for your quick repply regarding Allah's massengers in each society in his own languages.Kindly differenciate between RASOOL and NABI,keeping in view ayat no A- 22/52 , B-33/28,32,53,59 C-49/2 and specially 33/40. Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 24/03/2010
 
Dear sir, in an islamic state,minorities are at their own liberty to live with their own ways.This way,there will be two systems in a single state.this divides human beings into two parts.(question part 1) Question by: m.einstien On 17/04/2010
 
Q- Quran codes Essa words, mere bad Ahmad aega. Jab keh Quran Muhammad k waseela se btata hae k Ahmad aya aur us ko Bani Isril ne jhutlaya. Pls wazaht kren k Essa k bad aur Muhammad se pehle Ahmad kab aaey ? Question by: Aftab On 18/04/2010
 
AOA, What is "sabbath' according to Quran? Question by: Anwer Suri From UNITED STATES On 10/05/2010
 
Respected sir Can you throw light on the marriages of the holh prophet and the age of hazrat Ayesha Also why does this disparity exisists ie all other men are allowed to have only 4 wives? Question by: lubna asif On 26/04/2010
 
Salaam Dr. sahib, could you please explain 37:102-108. what is the dream, the test and how was ismail ransomed? Question by: shireen On 08/06/2010
 
Dr. Qamar zaman sahib,Aurangzaib bhai,All executive members, dear all members of aastana blog. Assalam o alaikum wa rahmatullah. plz read the food for thought and comment. Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 21/06/2010
 
Dr. Sahab and Aurangzeb Bhai I have to ask a question regarding Nabowat and Risalat, Is silsilae Nabowat and Risalat is still continue, I am further explaining my question by giving comments on it. Question by: ali.haideer From PAKISTAN (LARKANA) On 11/07/2010
 
Dr. Sahab and Aurangzeb Bhai I have to ask a question regarding Nabowat and Risalat, Is silsilae Nabowat and Risalat still continue, I am further explaining my question by giving comment on it. Question by: Nadeem_Akhtar From PAKISTAN On 11/07/2010
 
Kia mazaarat per jaa kar wahan per kuch mangna “Shirk” Kehlaega kia ye un logon ko Khuda manna nahi (please urdu me define karein it is asked by someone.) Question by: Dr. Samreen Mohsin From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 16/08/2010
 
kindly elaborate regarding descending of Quran in Ramazan. it is said that quran is completed in 21 years but completed in Ramzan. Allama Pervez also agreed with this. please explain. Question by: Dr. Samreen Mohsin From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 06/09/2010
 
Dear All, Sex is a man made pleasure and not natural. Please justify your comments with logic analysis to AGREE or disagree. Question by: Mubashir Syed From INDIA (HYDERABAD) On 15/09/2010
 
Dear Aurangzaib/Moazzam: kindly give some solid and valuable comments about NAMES...does name effect personality, character etc. ? i do not believe but i require some good comments on it from beautiful people like you. Question by: Saad Haider On 29/09/2010
 
Dear All, Please enlighten us with verses of Al Nisa 4 : 7 to 13 which deals with property distribution. I think they are misconception/misinterpreted. Please explain. Question by: Mubashir Syed From INDIA (HYDERABAD) On 05/10/2010
 
Does ideal economy has any scope for individuals to possess private property? Question by: Mubashir Syed From INDIA (HYDERABAD) On 08/10/2010
 
Salaam What is the difference between amānatahu, accusative feminine noun ,mu'minātun, nominative feminine plural indefinite noun , mu'minātin --> genitive feminine plural indefinite noun ? Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 09/10/2010
 
Dear All: kindly give mention some ill-logical rituals, ill-logical doings which can be asked to the N2 Muslim to make him think it over... Question by: Saad Haider On 30/10/2010
 
Dear Dr. Q.Zaman Sahib, Please explain the meaning of Mashriq & Maghrib according to Quran and also elaborate the meaning of Almishariq & AlMigharib ( i.e. 70/40) Question by: abbas From PAKISTAN (LAHORE) On 02/11/2010
 
I wonder, Man has invented loads of things, cars, trains, plains, rockets, boats without the Quran, then why did the Quran mention the “Iron”? Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 21/11/2010
 
Dear Dr Qamar Zaman Saheb, AOA can you give and explain your understanding of ayat 178 of Surah al Baqara? How does a free person equate with a slave and vice versa? God Bless You Question by: Damon From UNITED STATES (PITTSBURGH) On 11/12/2010
 
Brother m n khalid:I have gone through your one of the acticle"ALKITAB"(aafaqi sachaian),it made me a bit confused, please elaborate it at this forum.Thanks Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 15/12/2010
 
Why is Allat,Manat and Uzza mentioned and explained not to be the daughters of Allah, when the Arab Allah was Hubal ? They did believe them to be the daughters of Hubal, no? plz explain it in detail (tea) spoon feeding is required :-/ Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 23/12/2010
 
What is the concept of "WEALTH" in Islam? Question by: Junaid From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 17/02/2011
 
Aastana team! Please enlighten us about the Nine Ayaat given to prophet Musa, mentioned in verse17/101. Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 25/02/2011
 
What is the exact meaning of ٱلْبَيْعُ mentioned in (2:275) and how is it different from تِّجَٰرَتُ as mentioned in (2:16)? Question by: Junaid From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 07/03/2011
 
If pray does not play any role then how pakistan won cricket matches???? :)))) Question by: Saad Haider On 07/03/2011
 
Dear Aastana Members! What lesson in the story of TALOOT/JALOOT( mentioned in verses 2/240-230) we may have while selecting/ appointing the leader of political party in the present scenario ?? Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 07/04/2011
 
we just found out that the only fish fry in our town uses BEER batter ! is this fish halal to eat ? a quich response will be very kind jazakallah Question by: aq14437 From UNITED STATES (DANSVILLE NY) On 09/04/2011
 
Dear All, We cant rely on history and so would have been the case with people who lived 1400 years back, yet Quran gives references from history ??? Please justify. Question by: Mubashir Syed From INDIA (HYDERABAD) On 21/05/2011
 
Does physical death make the man extinct OR does life enter into immortal stage viz. HEREAFTER? Can “Hayaat-ul-Aakhirah” be scientifically proved? Question by: aurangzaib From PAKISTAN On 26/05/2011
 
Peace Brothers n Sisters, Call me crazy but I find it hard to believe there are no miracles mentioned in Quran. Moses n white hand serpent stick is same story in bible! That was revealed in Hebrew so Arabic version is wrong too? Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 29/05/2011
 
Dr. Asarulislam, Brother Aurangzaib! Is it possible to spell out/step by step arrangement to proceed toward "the establishment of islamic state" in the light of verses 10/75-90.If the present scenario resembles with "Moses vs Al e Firaon". Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 06/06/2011
 
Does establishment of ISLAMIC STATE dependent on REAL understanding of ISLAM by all humans? Or few thousand CAPABLE muslims are good enough to establish it from backend ? Question by: Tabrez On 28/06/2011
 
Brother Moazzam, Aastana Members! Please enlighten us about YAJOOJ MAJOOJ written in the story of Zulqarnain? Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 29/06/2011
 
Verse 2:62 is often quoted by Muslims to prove any faith is acceptable to Allah as long as people believe in Allah, Day of Judgement and perform good deeds. Would it not be right to stipulate that a belief in Allah should be as defined by the Qur'an? Question by: Mubashir From CANADA On 06/07/2011
 
Verse2:62. Muslims often quote it to prove that Allah accepts any belief as long as people believe in Allah, Day of Judgement and do good works. Question: Should it not be stipulated that belief in Allah should be as defined in the Qur'an? Question by: Mubashir From CANADA On 06/07/2011
 
Respected Sir, 1- What is the difference between "Ribaa" & "Baeh" as quoted in 2 / 275 ? 2- What about the profit being offered by National Saving Centers on fixed deposits. Can we term it as "Ribaa" ? Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 11/07/2011
 
Dear Aastana Members: Assalam o alaikum. Kindly enlighten us about LAILA TULQADR and SHAB-E-BRAAT , Brother Moazzam is requested please elaborate the Surah Alqadr (97). Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 18/07/2011
 
Dr Sahab And Mambers Is it possible that wahi reveals on some nabi other then Quran in these days at any nation. Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 18/07/2011
 
Is god an entity Question by: Yellow-cow From AFGHANISTAN (KABUL) On 22/07/2011
 
Ched some light on 54.45, not sense at all. Why say we criate pairs and the man the woman? Question by: Yellow-cow From AFGHANISTAN (KABUL) On 30/07/2011
 
Brother Moazzam! Please enlighten us about the wife of "Aziz e Misr" realy fell in love with Yousaf and invited him for fornication at her bed ,in the absence of king? IT SEEMS STRANGE TO ME BEING A DIVINE MESSAGE. Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 15/08/2011
 
Which socio-economic concept does Quran supports: Homo reciprocans OR Homo economicus? Please find the details below: Question by: Junaid From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 01/09/2011
 
What political philosophy does Quran supports: Libertarianism, Voluntaryism OR Anarchism? Please find the details below: Question by: Junaid From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 01/09/2011
 
Does Quran supports Egalitarianism and Existentialism? Please find the details below: Question by: Junaid From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 01/09/2011
 
Does Quran allow Rebellion or is it totally forbidden in any situation whatsoever? Please find the details below: Question by: Junaid From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 01/09/2011
 
Dear Members Is soorah Fateha is a part of Quran? If not then where it comes from.? Salaam Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 03/09/2011
 
I have asked 5 very important questions but none from aastana team known as "WE" has replied. Are these questions irrelevant? OR is everyone from the "WE" team is too busy trying to convince Mr. Dhulqarnain? Question by: Junaid From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 04/09/2011
 
Dear Sir, A question ! ...".Jannat" & "Jahanum"...As per Quran , are these physical places , or concepts , or status for humankind ? please explain with quotation of Quranic verses. Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 05/09/2011
 
Dear all ,What exactly is unachievable in the mentioned attributes of Rusools and Nabis and what did they do to get wahy....? Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 12/09/2011
 
Dear Sir, A question ! ... ".Jannat" & "Jahanum"...As per Quran , are these physical places , or concepts , or status for humankind ? please explain with quranic reference, Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 17/09/2011
 
PEACE TO ALL, DID ALLAH CHANGE PEOPLE INTO APES AND SWINE? 5:60..He brought His wrath and of whom He made apes and swine... YES: EXPLAIN NO: EXPLAIN Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 21/09/2011
 
Dear Sir, Please explain meanings of verses 160 t0173 of sura 26, relatin to events of hazarat LOOT' Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 23/09/2011
 
Brother Moazzam; Please enlighten us about the palmistry given in the link http://profkokab.com/. Is it a science or the branch of secrete knowledge already plotted in the universe.?? Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 27/12/2011
 
Surah jummah 2, why is it saying "Rusool" and not "Mohammed"...Rusool is among ummi....or Mohammed is ummi...? Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 04/01/2012
 
جنابَ محترم ! کچھھ عرصہ قبل ایک کتابچہ شائع ہوا تھا "اہلِ حدیث کے چھھ سوالات کے جوابات" مجھے اس کا لنک چاہئے۔ Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 13/01/2012
 
brother Moazzam: Please enlighten us about the bird called "HUD HUD",who brought information about queen saba.how can a bird understand the TAUHEED AND SHIRK, more over differetiation between male and female ruling?? Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 14/01/2012
 
How & when "Namaz" was intoduced into Muslim society? Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 30/01/2012
 
Dear Members, Brother Moazzam: Please enlighten us about the term "FIQH", is it a Quranic term? if yes then were would we find the Aastana's FIQH as Aastana is providing Quranic translation only [asked by one of my colleague]. Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 15/02/2012
 
Respected Moazzam/Auranangazeb sahib and Brothers, Considering the fact that Quran's meanings/interpretations are being manipulated/corrupted/distorted to a massive level, how a common man can understand his service towards his God? Question by: sameermoopa From INDIA On 15/02/2012
 
question asked:- could 'ma tashabaha minHU' be 'min Allah' rather than 'min al-kitab'. After all, Allah is the doer of this aya.(3:7) Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 29/02/2012
 
Aastana team : Do the counts given in Quran like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,10,11,12,19,20,30,40,70,80,99,100,200, 950,1000,2000,3000,5000,50000 at different places are real numerical counts or possess other lexicon meanings as per context ? Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 28/03/2012
 
Drar Sir, Please define the meanings of 9 / 36 What here :- أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 28/03/2012
 
What are Harut Marut? Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 02/11/2012
 
TRUE SENSE OF VERSE 20/46 : قَالَ لَا تَخَافَا إِنَّنِي مَعَكُمَا أَسْمَعُ وَأَرَى. Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 03/04/2013
 
1) THEY ASK YOU ABOUT AL ROOH (WAHY)? 2) IS THE QURAN DIVINE, IF YES, WHY? Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 05/05/2013
 
Dear Moazzam bhai regards, Quran me ya to saza ke dar se ya reward ke laalach se naik kaam ke liye kaha jata hai.Kya Insan itna gaya guzra hai ki wo in two baton ke alawa Naik kaamon ki taraf aa nahi sakta? Question by: Mohd Danish From INDIA (SAHARANPUR) On 08/05/2013
 
Dear Moazzam bhai regards, 6/151 me aulaad ko qatl na karne ki jo baat hai uska mafhoom kya hai ? Question by: Mohd Danish From INDIA (SAHARANPUR) On 19/05/2013
 
Dear Moazzam bhai regards, Quran me ya to saza ke dar se ya reward ke laalach se naik kaam ke liye kaha jata hai.Kya Insan itna gaya guzra hai ki wo in two baton ke alawa Naik kaamon ki taraf aa nahi sakta? Question by: Mohd Danish From INDIA (SAHARANPUR) On 19/05/2013
 
Religion has divided humanity into sects , how to bring about inter faith harmony between religions ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 18/09/2015
 
salam DR sab and every one, please watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhjikPTzLDA we need bold persons to explain quran openly with no fear. please post this. Question by: kanju swat From UNITED KINGDOM (LONDON) On 18/01/2016
 
Stealing someone's property is considered bad. Why stealing property of Allah(Land, it's ownership, selling and purchasing) is not bad ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 24/02/2016
 
Brothers and sisters of aastana team,Quran rejects democracy. What is political system of "mumlaqat-e-elahaya" Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 26/02/2016
 
Why not blow life into lifeless aastana site by putting questions concerning life and find answers through scientific discoveries instead of fixing ourselves in theology ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 26/02/2016
 
Why should we limit ourselves to Quran while searching for truth, when Al-kitab also includes science/nature ? Science +Wahi = Al-kitab. Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 02/03/2016
 
When did modern State came into being and how were people living in anarchy ? Let us ponder ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 04/03/2016
 
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly and bad people will find a way around the laws. " Plato Do we need laws? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 04/03/2016
 
Why can't Mother Nature itself be viewed as the Creator and It's knowledge be viewed as Wahi ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 05/03/2016
 
What is the future of family institution in the Modren Civilization ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 05/03/2016
 
Salam every one , what is the best QUESTION/ANSWER to the atheists about the God existence ?and what is Quran says about GOD (himself ),thanks Question by: kanju swat From UNITED KINGDOM (LONDON) On 21/03/2016
 
Only forms of thoughts exist ,matter doesn't , why a soul(higher form) decides to enter into a body which is a form existing at lower level ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 10/05/2016
 
Is there any evidence in the concept of reincarnation from any sources of truth ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 10/05/2016
 
Any update on the book ,(the truth about soum) please? thanks, Question by: kanju swat From UNITED KINGDOM (LONDON) On 18/05/2016
 
Sura 56 Aya 57 نَحْنُ خَلَقْنَاكُمْ فَلَوْلَا تُصَدِّقُونَ {57} Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 21/05/2016
 
Eid-ul-Fitr, Any reference from Quran regarding celebration of Eid-ul-Fitr , kindly share to examine the matter in the light of Quran , as to when , why and how it should be celebrated Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 03/07/2016
 
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