Blog Home Member's Area  AastanaBlog: AASTANA.COM 

Join AASTANABLOG
Share your Quranic thoughts, research and knowledge with other's.
It's free, easy and only takes a minute.
Sign up Now

TRANSLATION OF QURAN
BY DR. QAMAR ZAMAN
Translation Status
آیات
سورۃ
نمبر
1-7 الفَاتِحَة -1
1-286 البَقَرَة -2
1-200 آل عِمرَان -3
1-176 النِّسَاء -4
1-120 المَائدة -5
1-165 الاٴنعَام -6
1-206 الاٴعرَاف -7
1-75 الاٴنفَال -8
1-129 التّوبَة -9
1-109 یُونس -10
1-123 هُود -11
1-111 یُوسُف -12
1-43 الرّعد -13
1-52 إبراهیم -14
1-99 الحِجر -15
1-128 النّحل -16
1-111 بنیٓ اسرآئیل / الإسرَاء -17
1-110 الکهف -18
1-98 مَریَم -19
1-135 طٰه -20
1-112 الاٴنبیَاء -21
1-78 الحَجّ -22
1-118 المؤمنون -23
1-64 النُّور -24
1-77 الفُرقان -25
1-227 الشُّعَرَاء -26
1-93 النَّمل -27
1-88 القَصَص -28
1-69 العَنکبوت -29
1-60 الرُّوم -30
1-34 لقمَان -31
1-30 السَّجدَة -32
1-73 الاٴحزَاب -33
1-54 سَبَإ -34
1-45 فَاطِر -35
1-83 یسٓ -36
1-182 الصَّافات -37
1-88 صٓ -38
1-75 الزُّمَر -39
1-85 المؤمن / غَافر -40
1-54 حٰمٓ السجدة / فُصّلَت -41
1-54 القَمَر -54
Read Now


»«
ISLAM
BELIEFS
Add Your QuestionView More QuestionsEmail this DiscussionPrinter Friendly View
 
IS AL-QURAN THE LAST/FINAL REVELATION FROM ALLAH?  
 
YES OR NO AND PROVE EITHER POSITION.  
Add Your Comments  Question by: DHULQARNAIN On 05 August 2011
Comments by: Nargis On 05 August 2011Report Abuse
Quran is the First, the last, THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind  
 
Quranic guidance is eternal and everlasting for mankind during all eras.This is called "ALKITAB" see the verse 15/1, you have to check all the verses where word Alkitab is mentioned, you will find that the same message (ALKITAB) has/had been given to all mankind from the very first day see the verse 10/94. Remember the social laws could be driven from these eternal values written in Quran till the last day see the verse 85/21-22

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 06 August 2011Report Abuse
DHULQARNAIN: IS AL-QURAN THE LAST/FINAL REVELATION FROM ALLAH?  
 
NARGIS: Quran is the First, the last, THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind. Quranic guidance is eternal and everlasting for mankind during all eras.This is called "ALKITAB" see the verse 15/1, you have to check all the verses where word Alkitab is mentioned, you will find that the same message (ALKITAB) has/had been given to all mankind from the very first day see the verse 10/94. Remember the social laws could be driven from these eternal values written in Quran till the last day see the verse 85/21-22  
 
To begin, ayat 85:21 does not use the term “kitab” which is the term you’re using to make your case.  
 
Anyway, you are making a fundamental error in your analysis---you’re mixing apples and oranges . All the previous kitabs and the kitab (Al-Quran) given to the prophet who is described as Muhammad, all have in common the same fundamental message of Tauhid, however, nonetheless, they are separate from Al-Quran. Al-Quran stands alone as a revelation.  
 
Again, while “AL”-Quran is certainly “a” kitab and part of “AL”-Kitab, it, however, is a “separate kitab” distinct and unto itself. Also, you’ve left off the definite article in regard to Al-Quran in your above statement. The definite article makes it “The Quran”, meaning, it is superior (complete/perfect) to all which came before it.  
 
2:185 The month of Ramadan is that in which THE Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the Criterion.  
 
Al-Quran was revealed—suras 2-114.  
 
5:48 And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and A GUARDIAN OVER IT, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed…  
 
If all the kitabs were the same, how could Al-Quran be a guardian/be better/be superior to the kitab before it? The following ayats as well show that Al-Quran, which was given to the prophet who is described as Muhammad, is separate and distinct unto itself:  
 
6:19 Say: What thing is the weightiest in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me. And THIS QURAN has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomsoever IT reaches…  
 
39:27 39:27 And certainly We have set forth for men in THIS QURAN similitudes of every sort that they may mind.  
 
17:9 Surely THIS QURAN guides to that which is most upright, and gives good news to the believers who do good that theirs is a great reward,  
 
Allah refers to what was given to the prophet, who is described as Muhammad, as THIS QURAN.  
 
THIS: used to identify a SPECIFIC person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced:  
 
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=bvie&xhr=t&q=DEFINE+THIS&cp=11&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=g5&aql=f&oq=DEFINE+THIS&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=68b3f9ae28a95316&biw=1280&bih=878  
 
42:3 A Book of which the ayats are fully detailed, AN ARABIC QURAN for a people who know —  
 
41:44 And if We had made it a Quran in a foreign tongue, they would have said: Why have not its messages been made clear? What! a foreign (tongue) and AN ARAB! …  
 
42:7 And thus have We revealed to thee an ARABIC QURAN,  
 
An Arabic Quran given to an Arab. The prior kitabs were not in Arabic, hence, Al-Quran is a distinct and separate kitab.  
 
There are other ayats which make the case for Al-Quran being a separate and distinct Kitab, but the above ayats more than suffice, yes?  
 
Given the above evidence Nargis, you need to change your position on this one. Keep in mind that you will not be changing for Dhulqarnain, but for Allah; these are His Ayats.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: Nargis On 06 August 2011Report Abuse
"Remember the social laws could be driven from these eternal values written in Quran till the last day see the verse 85/21-22 " Nargis  
 
Dhlqarnain:-To begin, ayat 85:21 does not use the term “kitab” which is the term you’re using to make your case.  
 
Where exactly did I say 85:21 is using the term Al Kitab? Please quote me!

Comments by: waseemameer On 06 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Dhulqurnain  
Why Quran was revealed in Month of Ramadan. Why not any other month.  
Where is the list of Months mentioned in Quran?  
What would you say about ayat 15/91?  
The previous kitabs were revealed in different languagues and Quran is revealed in Arabic. Why? Does Sunat Allah changed every now and then?

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 06 August 2011Report Abuse
***"Remember the social laws could be driven from these eternal values written in Quran till the last day see the verse 85/21-22 " Nargis***  
 
I don’t have a problem with your statement, however, “Quran” should be prefaced with the definite article al/the—just for clarity sake. Also, please keep in mind that I was refuting your following statement:  
 
***NARGIS: Quran is the First, the last, THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind***  
 
Al-Quran isn’t the only revelation given to people. The Torah and the Injeel are also revelations and “qaraa’s (and precede Al-Quran), but they are not Al-Quran as revealed to the one described as Muhammad:  
 
7:157 Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the TAURAT and INJEEL…  
 
As far as 10:94 is concerned, Allah does mention specific qaraa’s i.e. The Torah and The Injeel which were parts of the Kitab before Al-Quran.  
 
Dhlqarnain:-To begin, ayat 85:21 does not use the term “kitab” which is the term you’re using to make your case.  
 
***Where exactly did I say 85:21 is using the term Al Kitab? Please quote me!***  
 
You didn’t, but you began your argument using the term kitab, but then referred to an ayat where kitab was not used. No big deal, but I was looking for you to be consistent.  
 
Now, do you concede to Allah that, although Al-Quran is part of Al-Kitab, it remains, however, a SPECIFIC and SEPARATE Kitab unto itself? It is important to establish this for our readers.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 06 August 2011Report Abuse
Waseemameer,  
 
Already you are off on other topics. What about the question of the thread:  
 
IS AL-QURAN THE LAST/FINAL REVELATION FROM ALLAH?  
 
YES OR NO AND PROVE EITHER POSITION.  
 
Please address this question before bombarding me with other questions.  
 
I'll respond this time, but address the above question.  
 
***Why Quran was revealed in Month of Ramadan. Why not any other month.***  
 
I have no idea at this time.  
 
***Where is the list of Months mentioned in Quran?***  
 
I have no idea at this time.  
 
***What would you say about ayat 15/91?***  
 
I have no idea at ths time.  
 
***The previous kitabs were revealed in different languagues and Quran is revealed in Arabic. Why?  
The people to whom Al-Quran was sent spoke Arabic. The following ayats should further answer your question:  
 
14:4 Messenger sent in the language of the people to make things clear.  
 
41:44 And if We had made the Quran in a foreign tongue they would certainly said: Why have not its ayats been made clear? What! A foreign language and Arabian!  
 
26:194-199 Upon your that you maybe of the warners. In plain Arabic language. And most surely is in the scriptures of the ancients. And if we had revealed it in to any of the foreigners so that he should have recited it to them, they would not have believed  
 
***Does Sunat Allah changed every now and then?***  
 
Define ---the Sunat of Allah via Al-Quran/Ayats.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: Nargis On 06 August 2011Report Abuse
1)*Now, do you concede to Allah that, although Al-Quran is part of Al-Kitab,Dhulqarnain  
 
2)**You didn’t, but you began your argument using the term kitab, but then referred to an ayat where kitab was not used. No big deal, but I was looking for you to be consistent.  
 
*What is the difference between The Quran and the Bible / Torah?  
 
What's different in the content?  
 
What is fused in the Quran which wasn’t considered essential in the Bible / Torah by Allah?  
 
What is the formula used to establish Deen before any book was revealed?  
 
What COMMANDS were new in the Quran?  
 
HOW was ORDERS transferred to the first prophets before any of the books had arrived?  
 
What is changed in mankind which is why the same code of life is not necessary?  
 
*********Please answer with references only to the Quran  
 
 
Where exactly is it written in the Quran that Al-Quran is a part of Al kitab and that Al Kitab have many different parts?  
 
2)** I used the term AL Kitab to point out its content and how its "attribute" describe its tasks. But I did not say that word is used in 85:21. Why did I refer to those 85:21-22 when I used the term Al Kitab in the beginning? how dare I?  
 
Because I said that the QURANIQ guidance is eternal and everlasting for mankind.  
 
Quran is also called AL KITAB, with the reference to 15:1  
 
15:1 Alif-lam-ra tilka ayatu alkitabi waqur-anin mubeenin  
 
A. L. R. These are the Āyats of Revelation, — Of a Qur-ān That makes things clear.  
 
It is clearly saying THESE AYAS ARE OF AL KITAB, OF A QURAN THAT MAKES THING CLEAR.  
 
Then I advised you to read EVERY aya where the word Al Kitab is used,  
 
And I pointed out that you will THEN (after reading all the ayas where the term al Kitab is used) understand that the SAME AL KITAB is given to mankind throughout ages.  
 
Then I referred to 10:94 which is stating  
 
Fa-in kunta fee shakkin mimma anzalnna ilayka fais-ali allatheena yaqraoona alkitaba min qablika laqad jaaka alhaqqu min rabbika fala takoonanna mina almumtareena  
 
If thou wert in doubt As to what We have revealed Unto thee, then ask those Who have been reading The Book from before thee: The Truth hath indeed come To thee from thy Lord: So be in no wise Of those in doubt.  
 
Then as a conclusion I said that the Social laws could be driven from THESE ETERNAL values written in the Quran till the last day, from A to Z, from first to last. So eternal values and everlasting commands written in the Quran which is called Al Kitab too, can be the base of further social values and social laws which would be needed later on in different societies and times.  
 
1) Al Kitab is Al Quran 15:1  
2) See EVERY aya the word Al Kitab is used in  
3) Read 10:94  
4) As conclusion, ayas from Al Kitab which is al Quran 15:1 can be the groundwork of social laws propelled by fresher compeers later or in different societies, with ref to 85:21-22.  
 
Can you see how the 85:21-22 are ref to as a conclusion? Let me quote it  
 
21. Nay, this is a Glorious Qur'an,  
 
22. (Inscribed) in a Tablet Preserved!  
 
As you can see, in 15:1 it is stated that Al Quran is the Al Kitab, and in 85:22 you can see it is preserved.  
 
So when Al Kitab according to 15:1 is al Quran, and it is preserved according to 85:21-22  
 
It means it has ALWAYS been here, and it is PRESERVED in order to lead mankind from a constitution to a derived law and social conduct /moral ethics. The preserved “object” called Al Kitab/Al Quran is the constitution, which serves as a skeleton with clear limits for human kind. Surrounded by these margins, humans are allowed to derive and develop newer and fresher laws.  
 
How is the Quran preserved? It is by not creating new laws in the nature, and not integrating new needs in humans, for different commands.  
 
Gravity and math is the same for human kinds throughout the ages, but some people read about it in English and some read about it in Urdu.  
 
If AIDS can be cured in Africa, the same medicine will serve as a medicine in America.  
 
If human beings throughout the ages are constructed in the same manner, with feelings that will work as driving forces in different directions, same medicine, AL KITAB will be needed to TEACH them how these feelings can serve as tools for further development instead of leading them to devastating state of minds.  
 
I rest my case !

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 07 August 2011Report Abuse
I don’t want to us to drift/lose focus so let me restate the principle point of our exchange.  
 
I asked: IS AL-QURAN THE LAST/FINAL REVELATION FROM ALLAH?  
 
I want to know if there are any other revelations after the one given to prophet who is described as Muhammad?  
 
Your reply was: NARGIS: Quran is the First, the last, THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind.  
 
While I agree that Al-Quran is the last revelation, and Al-Quran proves this, Al-Quran also proves that it was NOT the first and only revelation. I presented you with ayat 7:157 where Allah names two revelations i.e Torah and Injeel, prior to revealing Al- Quran.  
 
7:157 Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel…  
 
Now, I’m certain you will agree with me when I say that Allah knows how to name things. He named the revelation given to Moses as Torah—not Al-Quran. He named the revelation which He gave to Jesus as The Injeel—not Al-Quran.  
 
I also presented you with the following Ayats proving that Al- Quran is a specific revelation.  
 
2:185 The month of Ramazan is that in which THE QURAN WAS REVEALED, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the distinction  
 
6:19 Say: What thing is the weightiest in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me. And THIS QURAN has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomsoever IT reaches…  
 
39:27 And certainly We have set forth for men in THIS QURAN similitudes of every sort that they may mind.  
 
17:9 Surely THIS QURAN guides to that which is most upright, and gives good news to the believers who do good that theirs is a great reward,  
 
42:3 A Book of which the ayats are fully detailed, AN ARABIC QURAN for a people who know —  
 
41:44 And if We had made it a Quran in a foreign tongue, they would have said: Why have not its messages been made clear? What! a foreign (tongue) and AN ARAB! …  
 
42:7 And thus have We revealed to thee an ARABIC QURAN,  
 
Clearly, according to Al-Quran, Al-Quran was NOT the first revelation nor is it the ONLY revelation to mankind. Again, Al-Quran is specific kitab unto itself just as the Torah and Injeel are separate kitabs unto themselves.  
 
I agree with you that The Torah, The Injeel, and The Quran all have in common 6:106:  
 
6:106 Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord; there is no god but He; and withdraw from the polytheists.  
 
Narge, you really need to admit now that, according to Al- Quran, 2/3 of your response to me is wrong—“Quran is the First,… THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind”  
 
Will you now concede this particular point given the evidence?  
 
Remember now, you are NOT conceding to me, but to Allah and His Words. Please keep this in mind.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: dawood On 08 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Dhulqarnain and Nargis: While I don't want to intervene what is being discussed between you, I just want to mention the following for your kind consideration:  
 
“The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one believeth in Allah, His angels, His BOOKS, and His messengers. …(2:285).” What the phrase “BOOKS” is referring to in 2:285?  
 
“It is He Who sent down to thee, in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (Taurah) and the Gospel (Injeel) BEFORE THIS, as a guide to mankind. (3:3).” The word "BEFORE THIS" is significant?  
 
“And BEFORE THIS, was the Book of Moses as a guide and a mercy: And this Book confirms (it) in the Arabic tongue; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right. (46:12)”  
Thanks

Comments by: Nargis On 08 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Dawood  
 
How come you think "before this" is similar to "different to this"?  
 
And if 15:1 said Al Kitab is the Quran, then how come Jews and Christians are called ahle Kitab? Are they following the Quran?  
 
What do you say about 15:1?  
 
Dhulqarnain never answer questions or defend his translations, but is it possible for you to answer these questions?  
 
*What is the difference between The Quran and the Bible / Torah?  
 
What's different in the content?  
 
What is fused in the Quran which wasn’t considered essential in the Bible / Torah by Allah?  
 
What is the formula used to establish Deen before any book was revealed?  
 
What COMMANDS were new in the Quran?  
 
HOW was ORDERS transferred to the first prophets before any of the books had arrived?  
 
What is changed in mankind which is why the same code of life is not necessary?  
 
*********Please answer with references only to the Quran

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 08 August 2011Report Abuse
Narge,  
 
Dawood, although this isn’t directed at you, I hope the following will be helpful.  
 
***NARGE: How come you think "before this" is similar to "different to this"?...What is the difference between The Quran and the Bible / Torah? What's different in the content?***  
The following ayats should convince anyone that Al-Quran is different from, and, superior to, the qaraa’s which came before it.  
 
4:157 And for their saying: We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah, and they killed him not, nor did they cause his death on the cross, but he was made to appear to them as such. And certainly those who differ therein are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge about it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for certain:  
 
Is this Truth told in the Torah that Jesus was not killed?  
 
5:3...This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favour to you and chosen for you Al-Islam as your Deen…  
 
Is this Truth told in the Bible?  
 
10:37 This the Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than God; on the contrary it is a confirmation of that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book…  
 
Is this said of the Bible that it is a fuller explanation of the Book?  
 
17:9 Surely this the Quran guides to that which is most upright, and gives good news to the believers who do good that theirs is a great reward,  
 
Is this said of the Bible, that it guides to that which is most upright?  
 
23:13-14 Then We make him a small life-germ in a firm resting-place,*Then We make the life-germ a clot, then We make the clot a lump of flesh, then We make (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothe the bones with flesh, then We cause it to grow into another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!  
 
Is this Truth told in the Bible?  
 
Clearly then, Al-Quran is NOT THE SAME (lol I’m not yelling; just giving emphasis) as the qaraa’s which preceded it. Per ayat 2:18, Al-Quran has not always been on the earth.  
 
2:185 The month of Ramadan is that in which The Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the Criterion...  
 
Remember now, even though other qaraa precede Al-Quran, the definite article before Quran makes it the COMPLETE EXPRESSION of the term—qaraa.  
 
THE: used before singular or plural nouns and noun phrases that denote particular, specified persons or things: used before a noun, and generally stressed, to emphasize one of a group or type as the most outstanding or prominent:used to indicate uniqueness.  
 
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/the  
 
Narge, you really need to be intellectually honest now and just admit that Al-Quran isn’t the first or only revelation nor is it the same as the other qaraa’s, otherwise, you are going to really damage your credibility by arguing against the obvious.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 
 
 

Comments by: Universal-Lanati On 09 August 2011Report Abuse
2:185 The month of Ramadan is that in which The Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the Criterion...  
 
Why dont you explain this "month" thing before you use it for what its worth?  
 
How do you know whats written in the original book given to Moses and Eesa? do you have a copy of the original one?  
 
explain 15.1?

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 09 August 2011Report Abuse
2:185 The month of Ramadan is that in which The Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the Criterion...  
 
***Why dont you explain this "month" thing before you use it for what its worth?***  
 
Tell you what…why don’t you explain it?  
 
Whatever Ramadan is or isn’t, it will not change the following one single atom’s weight:  
 
2:185…The Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the Criterion…  
 
***How do you know whats written in the original book given to Moses and Eesa? do you have a copy of the original one?***  
 
I have only what is available to me today as do you. Apparently, it is sufficient to prove, for one, ayat 7:157, yeah?  
 
7:157 Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find mentioned in the Torah and the Injeel...  
 
***explain 15.1?***  
 
I don’t know, you posted it, so you explain it.  
 
Dhulqarnain-

Comments by: moazzam On 09 August 2011
Dear Dawood, Sister Nargis!  
The verse 2/285 must be seen in the subject context, read the verses 2/261-283, here the financial matters between state and individual/ masses has been described . In verses 2/284 the status/controlling power of Islamic state has also been discussed.  
In verse 2/285, it is being tolled that the Rasool of the time and all the Momineen has been peace provider with the DIVINE NIZAM E RABOOBIYAT. Each of them is peace providers with the state, the state officials, the state written orders and with the state messengers (numaainda).  
They never differentiate between the state messengers what so ever they are.  
In verse 3/3-4, we have to comprehend the concept of “nuzool”, in fact this is the conceiving of message in some one’s mind while seeking guidance from ALKITAB which consist the TAURAH, INJEEL, FURQAAN. ALKITAB had been the guide book for mankind in previous era(before this) as well see the verse 2/53 وَإِذْ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى الْكِتَابَ وَالْفُرْقَانَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ .  
Think why not ZABOOR is mentioned here, if it was the other book than Alkitab.  
In verse 86/12, it is declared that, Alkitab is the QAOL E FASL.  
To comprehend the verse 46/12, you have to see its context also, read the verses 46/2-4 and pay the special attention at verse 4 which clearly defines that, there was no any sign of knowledge or book before this ALKITAB.  
Keep in mind the sense of “FEE HE KUTUBINN QAYYIMAH 98/3" and verse 7/157 . Here in verse 46/12 it is described that, in this ALKITAB (before this page) we have explained the message(kitab,Alwah) given to Moses in the previous pages of the same ALKITAB.To comprehend the sense go to the veres 2/153إِذْ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى الْكِتَابَ وَالْفُرْقَانَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ  
Remember if we consider your stance true even then it creates chaos, because before Quran it should be INJEEL(KTAB E EISA) not KITAB E MUSA.  
Remember if any body who will keep on stuck with orthodox interpretation, he might remain in chaos.  

Comments by: dawood On 10 August 2011Report Abuse
Thank you Br. Moazzam. Although I suspected it a long time ago, it is more clear now after reading this: “ Moazzam: In verse 2/285, it is being tolled that the Rasool of the time and all the Momineen has been peace provider with the DIVINE NIZAM E RABOOBIYAT. Each of them is peace providers with the state, the state officials, the state written orders and with the state messengers (numaainda).”  
 
What you are saying is this: 2:285 is emphasizing to be a good, obedient, peaceful, law abiding citizen of a state? Am I right Br. Moazzam?  
 
“Moazzam: In verse 3/3-4, we have to comprehend the concept of “nuzool”, in fact this is the conceiving of message in some one’s mind while seeking guidance from ALKITAB which consist the TAURAH, INJEEL, FURQAAN. ALKITAB had been the guide book for mankind in previous era(before this) as well see the verse 2/53 وَإِذْ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى الْكِتَابَ وَالْفُرْقَانَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ .”  
 
If I use the traditional translation of 3/3-4, it strengthens my point of view that Taurat and Injeel were the prior versions of Alkitab. Since you will object to the traditional translation, please translate these verses for me to clarify your point of view.  
 
“Moazzam: Think why not ZABOOR is mentioned here, if it was the other book than Alkitab.”  
 
It goes either way: why not Zaboor is included along with TAurah, Injeel, Furqan, if it is part of Alkitab? I don’t have any idea as to why it is not mentioned here. You may like to explain your point of view?  
 
“Moazzam: To comprehend the verse 46/12, you have to see its context also, read the verses 46/2-4 and pay the special attention at verse 4 which clearly defines that, there was no any sign of knowledge or book before this ALKITAB.”  
 
Again, if I use the traditional translation of 46:4, it paints a different picture which is not what you have inferred above. Since you would not believe in the traditional translation, please translate it for me and explain it as to how you inferred that “there was no sign of knowledge or book before this Alkitab.”  
 
“Moazzam: Here in verse 46/12 it is described that, in this ALKITAB (before this page) we have explained the message(kitab,Alwah) given to Moses in the previous pages of the same ALKITAB.To comprehend the sense go to the veres 2/153إِذْ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى الْكِتَابَ وَالْفُرْقَانَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ.”  
 
This is a weird translation I have encountered so far. I would term it a hand-waving approach. Please explain as to how “ Wa Mun QAblahu Kitab Musa ….” Could ve translated as “ … we have explained the message ….in the previous pages?” Traditional translation will not appeal to you, please translate and explain your inference.  
 
“Moazzam: Remember if we consider your stance true even then it creates chaos, because before Quran it should be INJEEL(KTAB E EISA) not KITAB E MUSA.”  
 
Let me make one thing clear Br.: I am not fixed in terms of understanding the book of Allah. I am only concerned to have reasonable answers to all of my questions and then decide which is a more logical inference. Now coming to your question above, I could only say that it is not suggesting an order. Quran uses Taurah and Injeel in that order at many places. So “before this” does not mean in that order? I could be wrong.  
 
“Moazzam: Remember if any body who will keep on stuck with orthodox interpretation, he might remain in chaos.”  
 
I see such statements are in fashion now-a-days. We either have traditional translations or nothing. You don’t provide translations for various verses that you quote. Dr. QZ has not gotten beyond chap 2, yet. When you quote “ …take sense from so and so …”, it could only be true if context and the underlying grammatical structure allows it to be so. Nothing of this is addressed in your responses.  
 
Further, please consider the following verses (not complete and not exhaustive, but to highlight the point):  
 
قُلْ أَيُّ شَيْءٍ أَكْبَرُ شَهَادَةً قُلِ اللّهُ شَهِيدٌ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ وَأُوحِيَ إِلَيَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنُ لِأُنذِرَكُم بِهِ وَمَن بَلَغَ أَئِنَّكُمْ لَتَشْهَدُونَ أَنَّ مَعَ اللّهِ آلِهَةً أُخْرَى قُل لاَّ أَشْهَدُ قُلْ إِنَّمَا هُوَ إِلَـهٌ وَاحِدٌ وَإِنَّنِي بَرِيءٌ مِّمَّا تُشْرِكُونَ (6:19)  
 
وَمَا كَانَ هَـذَا الْقُرْآنُ أَن يُفْتَرَى مِن دُونِ اللّهِ (10:37)  
 
وْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ هَـذَا الْقُرْآنَ وَإِن كُنتَ (12:3)  
 
إِنَّ هَـذَا الْقُرْآنَ يَهْدِي لِلَّتِي (17:9)  
 
Do you think such verses must have been present in the books revealed to the previous messengers in previous eras?  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 11 August 2011Report Abuse
Narge,  
 
Sorry to be gone so long.  
 
This was your original statement and the crux of this discussion.  
 
NARGE: Quran is the First, the last, THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind.  
 
Before I can proceed you must clarify something. In your above statement you didn’t use the definite article “al/the” with Quran. Was this done on purpose? I noticed that you placed the definite article in front of “first”, “last”, and “only revelation. Without the definite article your statment makes no sense at all, but I don't want to assume anything.  
 
Please pick which statement you stand by, A or B. No explanation for choice is needed, I just need to know definitively what you mean.  
 
A. Quran is the First, the last, THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind.  
 
B. AL/THE-Quran is the First, the last, THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind.  
 
Please post A or B so I can respond.  
 
Thanks.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: Nargis On 11 August 2011Report Abuse
What you are saying is this: 2:285 is emphasizing to be a good, obedient, peaceful, law abiding citizen of a state? Am I right Br. Moazzam?  
 
I think he is saying that 2:285 is emphasizing to be a good, obedient, peaceful, law abiding citizen of a state BY WAY OF being peace providers with the DIVINE NIZAM E RABOOBIYAT.  
 
If I use the traditional translation of 3/3-4, it strengthens my point of view that Taurat and Injeel were the prior versions of Alkitab. Since you will object to the traditional translation, please translate these verses for me to clarify your point of view.  
 
Nope, even the traditional translations had to use “brackets” to make their point.  
3. Nazzala AAalayka alkitaba bialhaqqi musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi waanzala alttawrata waal-injeela  
3. It is He Who sent down To thee (step by step), In truth, the Book, Confirming what went before it;And He sent down the Law (Of Moses) and the Gospel (Of Jesus) before this, As a guide to ankind,And He sent down the Criterion (Of judgment between right and wrong).Yusuf Ali translation  
 
Word nazzala doesn’t mean sent down, sent down from heaven like God is sitting on his chair and throwing books down on our head?(H.E.L.P) Nope, nazzol mean the message one understand while one is researching/pondering on Al Kitab.  
It is simply saying this book confirm the law and glad tiding earlier prophets came with. To confirm something means it was true, it does not mean it was different. you who claim to either have the traditional translation or nothing, should at least ponder and study the traditional translation harder.  
 
You said prior VERSIONS, what kind of VERSIONS? What’s dissimilar there and what’s enhanced in this Quran?  
 
Again, if I use the traditional translation of 46:4, it paints a different picture which is not what you have inferred above. Since you would not believe in the traditional translation, please translate it for me and explain it as to how you inferred that “there was no sign of knowledge or book before this Alkitab.”  
 
Traditional translation of 46:4 yusuf ali  
 
…Bring me a Book (Revealed) before this, Or any remnant of knowledge (Ye may have), if ye Are telling the truth!  
EhhRR, a different picture? Even the traditional translation is clearly pointing out that THEY DON’T HAVE A BOOK REVELAED BEFORE THIS (WHICH IS THE QURAN)  
 
IT MEANS THEY NEVER HAD A BOOK OTHER THAN THE QURAN WHICH IS AL KITAB 15:1 (and please don't come up with the traditional story about Arabs never having a book so prophet Mohammed surprised them with this one)  
 
Let me make one thing clear Br.: I am not fixed in terms of understanding the book of Allah. I am only concerned to have reasonable answers to all of my questions and then decide which is a more logical inference. Now coming to your question above, I could only say that it is not suggesting an order. Quran uses Taurah and Injeel in that order at many places. So “before this” does not mean in that order? I could be wrong.  
 
“4:12. And before this, was The Book of Moses” Traditional translation  
 
If THIS book speaks of, refer to the Quran, then BEFORE THIS Book we had Injeel, book of Eesa. Why is book of Moses mentioned as BEFORE this? If it’s talking about many different books, then at least the order should be rightly referred to.  
 
It’s like I’m writing the 4th part of my book, and when referred to something in part 3, I say second part (when I actually mean the third part. & the Excuse for mixing up the order? Oh well, that’s just a style, The reader may figure out what part I meant, I do this very often, that’s just me, my book is divine sent down from heaven , don’t worry….  
 
:-S  
 
It is obvious that there is only ONE book, because the Commands never changes, the law never changes, the glad tidings are the same to every human being in every era.  
 
Verse 3/48, prophet Eisa was also given the ALKITAB, WISDOM, AL TAURAT, and AL INJEEL.  
 
*What is the difference between The Quran and the Bible / Torah?  
 
What books were given to Noah and Abraham ?  
 
(Dhulqarnain, if you really don't understand what I mean to say, then its okay ,you don't have to respond )  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 11 August 2011Report Abuse
***(Dhulqarnain, if you really don't understand what I mean to say, then its okay ,you don't have to respond )***  
 
Rather than have written the above, you could simply have replied with "one" letter or the other.  
 
Can you simply hit either the A or B key?  
 
Thanks.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: dawood On 11 August 2011Report Abuse
Although I am still awaiting Br. Moazzam’s response, What is “Divine Nizame Rabobiyat?” How do you define it?  
 
“Nargis: Word nazzala doesn’t mean sent down, sent down from heaven like God is sitting on his chair and throwing books down on our head?(H.E.L.P) Nope, nazzol mean the message one understand while one is researching/pondering on Al Kitab.”  
 
First, according to your understanding if one understands the message and then one writes down that understanding in the form of a book, this scenario would not fit into the word “Nazala. or would it.?”  
 
Second, here is the traditional translation of 3:3-4: It is He Who sent down (Nazala) to thee, in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down (Nazala) the Law (Taurah) and the Gospel (Injeel) before this (Mun Qabl), as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion …”  
 
You have explained one part “ Nargis: ..nazzol mean the message one understand while one is researching/pondering on Al Kitab.” And as per the same logic, the second part says “nazzol mean the message one would have understood while one was researching/pondering on Taurah and Injeel BEFORE THIS, i.e. before the existing, present, Alkitab.” I hope this is simple to understand now.  
 
Furthermore, confirmation (Mussadaqa) can only be undertaken if a previous copy and a present one are available. Additionally, this book, Alkitab can only confirm to be true that is inside the pages of this book and the same is found inside the pages of TAURAH and Injeel BEFORE THIS. Else, confirmation carries no meanings, if you don’t have anything to compare with?  
 
“Nargis: you who claim to either have the traditional translation or nothing, should at least ponder and study the traditional translation harder. “  
 
Thank you for the advice. I hope to internalize this advice along with a prayer that you may also ponder over it.  
 
“Nargis: You said prior VERSIONS, what kind of VERSIONS? What’s dissimilar there and what’s enhanced in this Quran?  
 
I don’t have access to previous versions, therefore, don’t know what is different. I do know however that when one says this document confirms what went before it, it simply means there does exist a previous document.  
 
“Nargis: …Bring me a Book (Revealed) before this, Or any remnant of knowledge (Ye may have), if ye Are telling the truth!  
EhhRR, a different picture? Even the traditional translation is clearly pointing out that THEY DON’T HAVE A BOOK REVELAED BEFORE THIS (WHICH IS THE QURAN)  
IT MEANS THEY NEVER HAD A BOOK OTHER THAN THE QURAN WHICH IS AL KITAB 15:1…”  
 
I am at a loss to understand which word or phrase in 46:4 can be translated that they did not have a book? Here is the complete traditional translation of 46:4 “Say: "Do ye see what it is ye invoke besides Allah? Show me what it is they have created on earth, or have they a share in the heavens, bring me a book before this, or any remnant of knowledge, if ye are telling the truth!” It simply says bring me a book in which is written what you are claiming to be (in this case following the orders other than of Allah)? Please show me the Arabic translation that could validate your point? This was my plea in the previous posting to Br. Moazzam.  
 
“Nargis: (and please don't come up with the traditional story about Arabs never having a book so prophet Mohammed surprised them with this one).”  
 
It seems dear sister you are not aware of an article “Kia Risaltm’aab Unparh They?” by Dr. QZ. First page of this article should be sufficient to answer this.  
 
“Nargis: … (4:12) And before this, was The Book of Moses” … .It’s like I’m writing the 4th part of my book, and when referred to something in part 3, I say second part (when I actually mean the third part. & the Excuse for mixing up the order? Oh well, that’s just a style, The reader may figure out what part I meant, I do this very often, that’s just me, my book is divine sent down from heaven , don’t worry….”  
 
By looking at other verses (2:21, 2:25, 2:89, …) in which the word “Qabl” is used, it is clear to me that it does not indicate an order. Also, would your above statement not be clear if you actually name the part you are referring to? Here Allah is distinctly talking about the Taurah Qabl this book. How does this creates a confusion, it is beyond me.  
 
“Nargis: It is obvious that there is only ONE book, because the Commands never changes, the law never changes, the glad tidings are the same to every human being in every era.”  
 
Do you think the following verses (and many more) were present in the book(s) available to the previous messengers in previous eras?  
 
… هَذَا الْقُرْآنُ تُشْرِكُونَ …. (6:19)  
وَمَا كَانَ هَـذَا الْقُرْآنُ أَن يُفْتَرَى مِن دُونِ اللّهِ (10:37)  
وْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ هَـذَا الْقُرْآنَ وَإِن كُنتَ (12:3)  
إِنَّ هَـذَا الْقُرْآنَ يَهْدِي لِلَّتِي (17:9)  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 11 August 2011Report Abuse
NARGE: Word nazzala doesn’t mean sent down, sent down from heaven like God is sitting on his chair and throwing books down on our head.  
 
What an erroneous and silly reply, Narge. Nazzala certainly does mean “sent down”, but not in the way you described it in your comment. “Sent down” is not directional in the “up and down” sense, rather, it is “directional” in the sense that revelation comes FROM Allah TO man. This why Fatiha is not a sura, because it, “directionally” speaking, is FROM man TO Allah.  
 
Dhulqarnain-

Comments by: moazzam On 12 August 2011
Dear brother Dawood Sister Nargis! Regards.  
Dawood! What you are saying is this: 2:285 is emphasizing to be a good, obedient, peaceful, law abiding citizen of a state?  
Moazzam: YES also the peace providers.  
Dawood: Please translate the verses3/3-4, 46/4 for me to clarify your point of view.  
Moazzam: Its my version that, Alkitab can’t be translated properly in any language because of its unique style of writing and its terminologies, rather could be interpreted to produce the true sense of the divine message with the help of (ratal in Quran, observing its context, its core message, taking help from nature and lexicon as well).Therefore almost all translators has been putting brackets to produce their preconceived sense of the subjects/stories/verses under translation.  
As “the universe” has no specific language even then it produces same/eternal sense to every truth seeker, because it is self explanatory in its form (ARABIYUN MUBEEN). Therefore,we can recognize Allah by reading only the signs in universe.  
Same like universe, the divine message written in ALKITAB has never been changed, rather remained ETERNAL in all era, read the following verses to be more cleared.  
1) 3/83 أَفَغَيْرَ دِينِ اللّهِ يَبْغُونَ وَلَهُ أَسْلَمَ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ طَوْعًا وَكَرْهًا وَإِلَيْهِ يُرْجَعُونَ  
DEEN E ISLAM HAS BEEM SAME FROM THE DAY ONE,THE SAME DEEN WAS/WILL BE GIVEN TO ALL PROPHETS  
3/84 قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ  
2) Remember HAQQ is the antonym of BATILL consolidate verses 9/111,4/105,17/105 the same HAQQ has been reveeled at all prophets in each era.  
3) To comprehend the matter under question read the verses 3/83-85,9/11 in the light of 4/136, the whole matter will become more clear to you.  
4) See 2/53, here it is clear that ALKITAB and Furqan has been given to Mosesإِذْ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى الْكِتَابَ وَالْفُرْقَانَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ.”  
5)MUSADDIQAN  
Dawood : Furthermore, confirmation (Mussadaqa) can only be undertaken if a previous copy and a present one are available. Additionally, this book, Alkitab can only confirm to be true that is inside the pages of this book and the same is found inside the pages of TAURAH and Injeel BEFORE THIS. Else, confirmation carries no meanings, if you don’t have anything to compare with?  
Moazzam: MY DEAR TO UNDERSTAND THE FACTS, READ THE VERSE 5/48 GIVEN UNDER. HERE IT MEANS THAT, THIS ALKITAB TESTIFYS YOUR CLAIM, IF YOU HAVE SOME THING FROM ALKITAB IN YOUR HAND, BECAUSE ALKITAB IS THE VALIDATOR/CALIBRATOR(مُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ )TO VALIDATE THE DIVINE MESSAGE.  
وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ فَاحْكُم بَيْنَهُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ عَمَّا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْحَقِّ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجًا وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَـكِن لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِي مَآ آتَاكُم فَاسْتَبِقُوا الْخَيْرَاتِ إِلَى اللهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ  
6) NUZOOL  
To understand the nuzool of sense(conceiving message in mind )after pondering into Alkitab/Quran read the verses 17/82, وَنُنَزِّلُ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ مَا هُوَ شِفَاءٌ وَرَحْمَةٌ لِّلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَلاَ يَزِيدُ الظَّالِمِينَ إِلاَّ خَسَارًا  
and 35/31 وَالَّذِي أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ هُوَ الْحَقُّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بِعِبَادِهِ لَخَبِيرٌ بَصِيرٌ  
7) TRANSLATION  
At your demand let me produce the interpretation (so called translation supported by the words written in brackets)  
3/2 Allah( Known by his authority/laws of nature/system)! There (in universe) is no (ruling authority/laws/system) but His,-the Living (functioning), the Self-Subsisting, Eternal.  
3/3-4: It is He Who conceived in your(truth seeker) mind the true sense of the message written in Alkitab confirming what went (made understand the message of Alkitab) before this era, and He conceived in your mind the appropriate sense of Law(Taurah) , the Gospel (Injeel) and the use of (Alfurqan) the criterion of judgment between right and wrong (all are written in this book).The same Alkitab had been as a guide to mankind.  
46/4 = Say: "Do you (may be any truth seeker) have observed any system/ruling authority/ laws functioning better than Allah’s one? Show me their any designed system which is successfully functioning even at the lover level. Have they any share in the universe. Bring me a book (revealed) before this, or any signs of knowledge, if they are right in their claim.  
6/19  
قُلْ أَيُّ شَيْءٍ أَكْبَرُ شَهَادَةً قُلِ اللّهُ شَهِيدٌ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ وَأُوحِيَ إِلَيَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنُ لِأُنذِرَكُم بِهِ وَمَن بَلَغَ أَئِنَّكُمْ لَتَشْهَدُونَ أَنَّ مَعَ اللّهِ آلِهَةً أُخْرَى قُل لاَّ أَشْهَدُ قُلْ إِنَّمَا هُوَ إِلَـهٌ وَاحِدٌ وَإِنَّنِي بَرِيءٌ مِّمَّا تُشْرِكُونَ (6:19)  
6/19 Say: "What thing is most weighty in evidence?" Say: "Allah(the divine message in universe/nature) is witness between me and you; This Qur'an has been revealed to me by inspiration, that I may warn you and all whom it reaches. Can you possibly bear witness that besides Allah(Authoritative laws of nature ruling in universe) there is another Allah( Authoritative laws other than functioning in universe)?" Say: "No! I cannot bear witness!" Say: "But in truth He is the one Allah(only one system functioningin universe) and I truly am innocent of the material you providing in contradict to this divine message.  
وَمَا كَانَ هَـذَا الْقُرْآنُ أَن يُفْتَرَى مِن دُونِ اللّهِ وَلَـكِن تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ الْكِتَابِ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ مِن رَّبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ  
 
10/37 And it was not [possible] for this Quran (he proper noun's trilateral root is qāf rā hamza (ق ر أ) here it means description of Alkitab) to be produced by other than Allah , but [it is] a confirmation of what is in their hand (as per verse 5/48)and a detailed explanation of ALKITAB, about which there is no doubt, from RAB AL AALAMEEN.  
12/3We relate to you, [O truth seeker], the best of stories in what We have revealed (conceived in your mind) to you of this Quran although you was before it, among the unaware.  
17/9 Indeed, this Qur'an guides to that which is most suitable and gives good tidings to the believers who do righteous deeds that they will have a great reward  
 
 

Comments by: Nargis On 12 August 2011Report Abuse
Lakhoulwalabarakato ho , WOOW dear brother moazzam, thank you soooo much for this. I think it cannot be clearer than this, you beautifully explained it in detail once again. now its up to the reader to disagree or agree, its all there well presented. I think it helped a lot when you explained the verses .Thanks again, this is how I learnt from you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrnK56RM3Q4&feature=related , hope others will learn same way, slowly but focused :):)  
 

Comments by: waseemameer On 12 August 2011Report Abuse
Brother Moazzam. that was simply best  
I love this part as I myself was pondering over 3/3-4 the other day and thought it's Bain and Yad,  
 
(Moazzam: MY DEAR TO UNDERSTAND THE FACTS, READ THE VERSE 5/48 GIVEN UNDER. HERE IT MEANS THAT, THIS ALKITAB TESTIFYS YOUR CLAIM, IF YOU HAVE SOME THING FROM ALKITAB IN YOUR HAND, BECAUSE ALKITAB IS THE VALIDATOR/CALIBRATOR(مُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ )TO VALIDATE THE DIVINE MESSAGE. )

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 12 August 2011Report Abuse
Narge,  
 
A. Quran is the First, the last, THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind.  
 
B. AL/THE-Quran is the First, the last, THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind.  
 
I see that you’re not going to reply so I will proceed. We can eliminate option “A” because there is neither a definite article nor an indefinite article in front of Quran so the sentence makes no sense. An indefinite article makes no sense either; hence, we will go with option “B” as what you meant to write.  
 
Regarding 2:285:  
 
2:285 The Messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. They all believe in Allah and His angels and His Books and His messengers. We make no difference between any of His messengers. And they say: We hear and obey; our Lord, Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.  
 
I know you are a grammar maven, so you will take note that Angels, Books, and Messengers are all plurals, even in the Arabic.  
 
The question which now comes to mind is…what Books are Allah referring to?  
 
It can only mean the following Books:  
1. Al-Torah  
2. Al-Zaboor?  
2. Al-Injeel  
3. Al-Quran  
 
These books are books (like chapters) within The Book!  
 
Let’s continue.  
 
3:65 O followers of the Book! why do you dispute about Ibrahim, when the Taurat and the Injeel were not revealed till after him; do you not then understand?  
 
If Al-Quran, as you say, is the first revelation, and given that Abraham didn’t have the Torah or the Injeel, then how did he have Al-Quran? According to Al-Quran, Al-Quran succeeds The Torah and The Injeel. Remember now, according to Allah, He revealed Al-Quran in the month of Ramadan to the one He foretold of coming in the Torah and The Injeel ( See 2:185 and 7:157).  
 
2:185 The month of Ramadan is that in which the Quran was revealed…  
 
7:157 Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find mentioned in the Torah and the Gospel.  
 
Look at 61:6  
 
61:6 And when Jesus, son of Mary, said: O Children of Israel, surely I am the messenger of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Torah and giving the good news of a Messenger who will come AFTER me, his name being Ahmad.  
 
The Messenger who came after Jesus was Muhammad, who came with ahmad (better; ahmad is comparative form of hamid)-Al-Quran.  
 
Consider these ayats:  
 
9:111 Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the TAURAT and the INJEEL and the QURAN; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.  
 
Do you think Allah made an error in the order of the revealed books in this ayat?  
 
5:46-48 And We sent after them in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, verifying that which was BEFORE HIM OF THE TORAH and We gave him the Gospel containing guidance and light, and verifying that which was BEFORE IT OF THE TORAH, and a guidance and an admonition for the dutiful.* And let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah has revealed in it. And whoever judges not by what Allah has revealed, those are the transgressors. *And We have revealed to thee (Muhammad) the Book with the truth, verifying that which is BEFORE IT OF THE BOOK AND A GUARDIAN OVER IT, so judge between them by what Allah has revealed..,  
Do you think Allah made an error in the order of the revealed books in this ayat?  
 
Clearly then, from the above ayats, you can see a “before” and “after” sequence regarding the revealing of the revelatory books. Clearly Al-Quran is not the first revelation nor is it the only revelation, but it is the last revelation.  
 
Now, in 2:177 The Book is singular:  
 
2:177 It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteous is the one who believes in Allah, and the Last Day, and the angels and the Book and the prophets,…  
 
The Book, in this ayat, can only mean the totality of the revealed books and possibly the laws of Creation, thus, forming one book, otherwise, it would contradict 2:285. Still, keep in mind that Allah refers to each revealed scripture as a Book or the Book, except the Zaboor. All the prophets got the Book up to their time period, but only the Last Prophet got the completed Book and the Book--Al-Quran.  
 
5:3 …This day have I perfected your Deen and completed My favour to you and chosen for you Al- Islam as Deen…  
 
Was any other prophet told that they were given AL-ISLAM as their Deen? Of course not. The prophecies of the coming of the Last Prophet mentioned in ayats 7:157 and 61:6, refer to the Torah and the Injeel respectively. None of the prior prophets had the completed Book/Deen, hence, Al-Quran could have not been the first revelation, but could only be the last revelation. This why Muhammad is called the Khatim Nabyieen/Last Prophet as he was given the completed Book--Al-Quran and completed Deen-- Al-Islam.  
 
Getting back to ayat 15:1  
 
15:1 I, Allah, am the Seer. These are the verses of the Book and (of) a Quran that makes manifest.  
The Book in this ayat is Al-Quran, however, Allah is stating that the Book/Al-Quran is “a” Reading/Recital (quran/qaraa) that makes things clear.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: Yellow-cow On 13 August 2011Report Abuse
2:185 The month of Ramadan is that in which the Quran was revealed…  
 
So stopid to juse this as confirmasion that Quran was revealed 1400 years ago only and it is not same book  
 
If ramadan is a month(something you never answared me or waseem amar about) , this month can exist any time, not only 1400 years since ago. proof Quran only revealed 14000 years in ramadan and ramadan never exist before. How you know which year this is talk about?  
 
Read last repli and see al kitab is same,

Comments by: naeem sheikh On 13 August 2011Report Abuse
Brother Moazzam ! MAY ALLAH BLESS YOU WITH MORE WIZDOM, YOU SOLVED MY LONG STANDING QUERY ABOUT "MUSADDIQAN LE MAA BAINA AIDI HIM" THANKS A LOT.  
Please enlighten us about the NIZAM E RABOOBIYAT, as you normally quotes while describing MUMLIKAT E KHUDA DAD. Also the inter relation of both the above terminologies.  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 13 August 2011Report Abuse
Cow and Narge,  
 
2:185 The month of Ramadan is that in which the Quran was revealed…  
 
***So stopid to juse this as confirmasion that Quran was revealed 1400 years ago only and it is not same book If ramadan is a month(something you never answared me or waseem amar about) , this month can exist any time, not only 1400 years since ago. proof Quran only revealed 14000 years in ramadan and ramadan never exist before. How you know which year this is talk about? Read last repli and see al kitab is same,***  
 
"Stupid"? LOL! I love reading your posts Yellow Cow, they are such a study in...aggressive ignorance and inanity run amok.  
 
What destroys yours and the others who support your position, is ayat 5:3  
 
5:3 …This day have I perfected your Deen and completed My favour to you and chosen for you Al- Islam as Deen…  
 
Was any other prophet told that they were given AL-ISLAM as their Deen? Of course not. The prophecies of the coming of the Last Prophet mentioned in ayats 7:157 and 61:6, refer to the Torah and the Injeel respectively. None of the prior prophets had the completed Book/Deen, hence, Al-Quran could have not been the first revelation, but could only be the last revelation. This why Muhammad is called the Khatim Nabyieen/Last Prophet as he was given the completed Book--Al-Quran and completed Deen-- Al-Islam.  
 
Ramadan could not have happened just in any time period, but a specific time period and a relatively recent time period at that. If any prophet-messenger, other than the Last Prophet, had had Al/The-Quran, then there would have been no need for subsequent prophet-messengers, because all they would have needed to do was continue to follow the COMPLETED/PEREFCT MESSAGE/DEEN which preceded them. This is exactly why there is no need for prophets or prophet messengers today or forever, because mankind has, in Al/THE-Quran, the completed/perfect Message/Deen from Allah the Lord of the Worlds. All man has to do now is to obey its commands. This is why Narge is mistaken about ayat 3:21.  
 
She has not yet responded to following proof against her argument, perhaps you can, Cow.  
 
3:21. Verily! those who reject the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh and kill the Prophets without right, and kill those men who order just dealings, ... announce to them a painful torment.  
 
***NARGIS: In this verse the verbs used are not in past tense ,the verbs are  
یکفرون یقتلون These words can either be translated in present tense or future tense . these words can in no way be translated into past tense . So when this verse was revealed to prophet Mohammad there were so many انبیاء and it is a non ending continuous process . Now keeping in mind the verse 21 of sura 3 ( already discussed above ) , which clearly indicates that so many prophets انبیاء were present in the times of prophet Mohammad . This verse no 40 of sura 33 is declaring that Mohammad was the seal of the prophets , which simply means He was the appointing authority of other prophets.***  
 
Okay, then answer the following questions ALL of which are pertinet to your position/argument.  
 
1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets, thanks.  
 
2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
7. Name one prophet who is alive today.  
 
8. In another thread you agreed that Al-Quran is the Last Revelation.  
 
NARGIS: Quran is the First,... the last...., THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind  
 
This being the case then, of what need are prophets... since the prophet who was given Al-Quran? They cannot, by your own admission, bring any new revelation since Al-Quran is the last revelation.  
 
Looking forward to reading your replies.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: naeem sheikh On 14 August 2011Report Abuse
Respected Aastana Members! The track record shows that, Mr Dhulqarnain doesn't want to learn, rather he is here to kill the time and to waist the precise time of others as well.He never bother to read even the complet answers of opponents and their quoted refferences as well. If he is sincere to learn, he must go through the basic Quranic terminologies described at Aastana, or he may read first the books/articles written by Dr Qamar.Hence he stuck with the orthodox translations,he will remain in cunfusion state or the RELIGIOUS MULLAH(who is usually relactant to accept any change)  
Mr Dhulqarnain ! Please discuss the following terminologies prior to involve further at this issue, if sincere to learn by Aastana blog..  
1) NABI, RASOOL, IMAM  
2) NUZOOL.  
3) ALKITAB  
4) MOHAMMAD.  
5) QURAN.  
6) TAURAH  
7) INJEEL  
8) ALYOUM  
9) AKMALTU.  
10) DEEN.  
11) QATAL AL AMBIYA.  
12) RAMADHAN  
13) SHAHR  
As i infered by your previous and recent post, your stance is that, Quran is the last messanger(mohammad),am i correct? you amphasis that, no rasool (human being) will come further more. THIS IS INCORRECT CONCEPT( against the Alkitab)  

Comments by: Yellow-cow On 14 August 2011Report Abuse
And again he jumped over my question  
 
Quran was reveeales in month of ramadan, but what year? referense only to Quran ,Dhulqarnain answar  
 
yes you right Naeem sheikh

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 14 August 2011Report Abuse
NAEEM AND ESTEEMED AASTANA MEMBERS,  
 
***NAEEM SHEIKH: Respected Aastana Members! The track record shows that, Mr Dhulqarnain doesn't want to learn, rather he is here to kill the time and to waist the precise time of others as well.He never bother to read even the complet answers of opponents and their quoted refferences as well. If he is sincere to learn, he must go through the basic Quranic terminologies described at Aastana, or he may read first the books/articles written by Dr Qamar.Hence he stuck with the orthodox translations,he will remain in cunfusion state or the RELIGIOUS MULLAH(who is usually relactant to accept any change)***  
 
Your above statement is what is referred to as—ad hominem. Ad hominem is attacking not an argument, but the individual bringing an argument. THAT IS A WASTE OF TIME! No matter how much you may believe you are Masters of the Al-Quran your’re not and you better get that understood before Allah requires your soul. Some Aastana members have made critical mistakes in their analysis and there is no excuse for it. I notice when it is convenient to you, you quote verbatim so-called orthodox translations. I will change when you or anyone else can prove via, Al-Quran, where a position of mine is incorrect. Thus far neither you nor anyone else here has been able to do that. I read long ago the book by Adid Safar. I never met the man and I never debated him on line, but what he wrote, in large part, was clear and I changed my position in several areas. Bring your proof and not your wild conjectures and I will change. Unlike you I do fear Hell so I want to have it right.  
 
***NAEEM: Mr Dhulqarnain ! Please discuss the following terminologies prior to involve further at this issue, if sincere***  
 
I’m not interested, at this time anyway, to deviate from the thread topic to discuss your conjectural “terminologies”. In the future, however, I will. Whenever you people cannot defend your positions you immediately attempt to deviate to some other topic. This thead is called: IS AL-QURAN THE LAST/FINAL REVELATION FROM ALLAH? It was generated by the comment from beautiful sister Nargis:  
 
NARGIS: 3 21. Verily! those who reject the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh and kill the Prophets without right, and kill those men who order just dealings, ... announce to them a painful torment. In this verse the verbs used are not in past tense ,the verbs are  
یکفرون یقتلون These words can either be translated in present tense or future tense . these words can in no way be translated into past tense . So when this verse was revealed to prophet Mohammad there were so many انبیاء and it is a non ending continuous process .  
 
These are very serious positions and must be proven by Al-Quran.  
 
I proved in my posts that AL/THE QURAN (NOT “A”-QURAN), which is comprised of Suras from Baqara to Al-Nas, could not have been the first revelation, but only the last revelation. Ayat 5:3 proves that without a doubt!  
 
5:3 …This day have I perfected your Deen and completed My favour to you and chosen for you Al- Islam as Deen…  
 
No other prophet-messenger was given those Words form Allah---only the Last Prophet was. Now, if you have proof to contrary that Allah gave those Words to some other prophet, then, by all means, post the ayat/proof and I will concede the point. If you cannot then you concede the the point to Allah.  
 
What sis Nargis stated regarding 3:21 cannot be accurate, because Allah says that He is for ever sending messengers not He’s forever sending prophets.  
 
44:5 A command from Us; surely We are ever sending messengers.  
 
Nowhere does He say that He’s forever sending prophets. If sis Nargis is correct in here statement, then she, or you or Cow or Moazzam, or Junaid, or Dr.Zaman, or whoever, must answer the following...absolutely reasonable questions. If you cannot answer the following, via the Words of Allah/Al-Quran, then you have to show the emotional maturity, the intellectual honesty, the fear of misleading yourself and others, and the Fear of Allah, and concede that your position is not supported by THE/AL-QURAN.  
 
1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets, thanks.  
 
2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
7. Name one prophet who is alive today.  
 
8. In another thread you agreed that Al-Quran is the Last Revelation.  
 
NARGIS: Quran is the First,... the last...., THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind  
 
This being the case then of what need are prophets... since the prophet who was given Al-Quran? They cannot, by your own admission, bring any new revelation since Al-Quran is the LAST revelation.  
 
***NAEEM: As i infered by your previous and recent post, your stance is that, Quran is the last messanger(mohammad),am i correct? you amphasis that, no rasool (human being) will come further more. THIS IS INCORRECT CONCEPT( against the Alkitab)***  
 
I said, PER ALLAH, there would be NO MORE PROPHETS AFTER Muhammad. I never said that no messengers would come after Muhammad. I stated just the opposite. Allah states, per ayat 44:5, the He’s forever sending messengers (see above for ayat). Al-Quran is the Last Revelation, but, it too, per ayats 6:19 and 61:6 is a messenger, because IT IS AND brings The Message which was given to the Last Prophet from Allah.  
 
6:19 Say: What THING is WEIGHTIER in TESTIMONY? Say: Allah is witness between you and me.And THIS “THE” QURAN has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and WHOMSOEVER IT REACHES. Do you really bear witness that there are other gods with Allah? Say: I bear not witness. Say: He is only One God, and surely I am innocent of that which you set up (with Him).  
 
REPEAT: 6;19 …THIS “THE” QURAN has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and WHOMSOEVER IT REACHES…  
 
Whoever brings Allah alone/ and Al-Quran alone to others, is, in fact, a messenger.  
 
Moving further...  
 
61:6 And when Jesus, son of Mary, said: O Children of Israel, surely I am the messenger of Allah to you, verifying that which is BEFORE ME OF THE TORAH and giving the good news of A MESSENGER WHO WILL COME AFTER ME, his name being Ahmad(comparative form of hamid= BETTER). But when he came to them with clear arguments, they said: This is clear enchantment.  
 
The MESSAGE AFTER Jesus is—Al-Quran, like it or not want it or not, it’s just the way it is. You will notice that the passage reads…he came with CLEAR ARGUMENTS. Now, some called those CLEAR ARGUMENTS—clear enchantment. They were not referring to the individual as the messenger as an enchanter, but the Message/Clear Arguments itself as the enchantment! This ayat and ayat 6:19 clearly shows the Messenger, in the absolute sense of the term, is Al-Quran.  
 
Here’ two more ayat which supports Al-Quran as the Message/Messenger:  
 
3:144 And Muhammad is no more than a messenger; the messengers have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels!s, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful.  
 
Well, Muhammad is DEAD!, at least on this plane of existence anyway So how do we practice Al-Islam without him?! My, my, my, how do we do it...ahhh, yes, we follow the Messenger/Message—Al-Quran!  
 
8:20 O you who believe! obey Allah and His Messenger and do not turn back from him while you hear.  
 
Here’s the question…who is the “him” in ayat 8:20 who is to be obeyed—Allah or the Messenger? And prove it.  
 
There is no way, via Al-Quran anyway, to refute the above analysis. You should just simply concede that your positions on these issues are not accurate so you can stop misleading yourselves and others.  
 
Looking forward to your replies.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: moazzam On 15 August 2011
Brother Dhulqarnain! Till you not understand the true sense and appropriate use of word اللّهَ and رَسُولَهُ in the light of core message of the guide book for each era (the Quran), you will not be able to understand the view point of any member of Aastana blog. Therefore I advised you time and again( Mr Naeem also suggested you the same), to go through/discuss the sense of Quranic terminologies first, otherwise Aastana and you will remain apart and never come at same wave length. Remember, you rely on orthodox translation whereas Astana rejected logically, rationally, grammatically, almost all the translations which reflects against Quranic core massage/ against nature as well.  
It is my version that, Quran can’t be translated exactly in any language because of its unique style and terminologies, rather could be understood its true sense by tasreef, ratal, ,lexicon, nature and by keeping in view the core message of Alkitab as well.  
Verse 8/20 يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَلاَ تَوَلَّوْا عَنْهُ وَأَنتُمْ تَسْمَعُونَ  
Translation: O you who have believed, obey Allah and His Messenger and do not turn from him while you hear [his order].  
 
My dear just see the use of word Allah in the following verse, what does word "Allah" sense here?  
 
verse 18/17 فَلَمْ تَقْتُلُوهُمْ وَلَـكِنَّ اللّهَ قَتَلَهُمْ وَمَا رَمَيْتَ إِذْ رَمَيْتَ وَلَـكِنَّ اللّهَ رَمَى وَلِيُبْلِيَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْهُ بَلاَءً حَسَناً إِنَّ اللّهَ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ  
Translation: And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them. And you threw not, [O Muhammad], when you threw, but it was Allah who threw that He might test the believers with a good test. Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing.  
 
 

Comments by: dawood On 15 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Br. Moazzam, SA: I am responding to your post dated 12th August, 2011. First, I am going to talk about the verse 5:48 and then I will come to other points. It may take me some time to do this for “zamaney mein aur bhi gham hain mohabbat ki siwa.”  
“Moazzam: MY DEAR TO UNDERSTAND THE FACTS, READ THE VERSE 5/48 GIVEN UNDER. HERE IT MEANS THAT, THIS ALKITAB TESTIFYS YOUR CLAIM, IF YOU HAVE SOME THING FROM ALKITAB IN YOUR HAND, BECAUSE ALKITAB IS THE VALIDATOR/CALIBRATOR(مُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ )TO VALIDATE THE DIVINE MESSAGE.  
وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ فَاحْكُم بَيْنَهُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ عَمَّا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْحَقِّ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجًا وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَـكِن لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِي مَآ آتَاكُم فَاسْتَبِقُوا الْخَيْرَاتِ إِلَى اللهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ”  
 
My dear brother, your understanding of this verse (5:48) is erroneous because you have neglected the context, although you are a proponent of using the context. Please review the following verses along with my explanation/comments. Please note, I am using orthodox translations, and my understanding is based on these translations.  
 
(5:43): But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have law (Taurah) before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not People of Faith.  
 
(5:44): It was We who revealed the law (Taurah): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews (HADO), by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book (Kitab Allah), and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.  
 
(5:45): We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.  
 
(5:46): And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.  
 
(5:47): Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.  
 
(5:48): To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law (shara) and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;  
 
By reading the above, the following conclusions maybe drawn:  
1. A group of people has Taurah already with them and that this Taurah contains the commandments (HUKM) of Allah which should be used to decide among people(5:43). This establishes one group of people having Taurah as a divine book.  
2. That Taurah is revealed by Allah; it has guidance and noor; that it has been used by prophets, Jews, …, and that they were the protectors of Allah’s Book (5:44). THIS ESTABLISHES ALLAH’S BOOK=TAURAH and that it contains guidance and light.  
3. 5:45 gives some specifics as to what was written in the Taurah. People not judging by the revelation of Allah are Zalimoon. Thus, revelation of Allah=The Book of Allah=Taurah. Therefore, the meanings of ANZALA cannot be anything other than the written Taurah, the book of Allah. Thus, it establishes the meanings of Nazool, i.e. the revelations of Allah to a man which are preserved in the written form, not in one’s mind alone.  
4. Eisa Ibn-e-Maryam is following the footsteps of the previous prophets that are mentioned in 5:44 and that he confirms from the Taurah (Baina Yeday Minattaurat), meaning he (Eisa) knew what is in Taurah. Taurah was infront of him, in his hands. Then, it is said that we gave Injeel to Eisa (Wa’Ataina Injeel). If Taurah=Injeel, as you and some others have been erroneously suggesting, then what is the need to repeat the same Taurah which is already with Eisa and on top of it call it with a different name, Injeel? Does it make sense that one author, one book, two ditto copies, two different names? 5:44 further states that this Injeel confirms what he has in his hands of Taurah. To me, the only logical conclusion is that Injeel must contain something more than or different than what is contained in Taurah, in addition to repeating what is in Taurah. This verse also negates the idea that people called these books with these names. Nay, it was the author who called these books with these names. It is Allah who is saying that “we gave Injeel to Eisa.” Furthermore, is it logical to assume that a sentence like this (We gave Injeel to Eisa) was also contained in Taurah? It is an absurd assumption and Allah’s book is free of such absurdities. Thus, Taurah is not equal to Injeel word by word. Injeel contains same Ahkamat (HUKM) of Allah which were in Taurah, simultaneously it contains something different than Taurah.  
5. Now another group “Ahl-e-Injeel” is introduced in 5:47. Again, if INjeel=Taurah, why call another group “Ahl-e-Injeel?” Why not “Ahl-e-Taurah?” Does it make any sense? It is therefore obvious that Injeel and Taurah are not the same, ditto copies of each other. 5:47 further states that the people of Injeel should judge what Allah has revealed (Anzala). Therefore, Anzala cannot mean anything other than the orders (Hukm) mentioned in the book called Injeel.  
6. After mentioning the above two groups (the followers of Taurah and Injeel), it is said to the Messenger of Allah that “to you we sent (anzalna) the book in truth that confirms from/of the book in your hands…” You have erroneously assumed that the second reference to the book is for this book, Alquran. Whereas, it is obvious from the context that this reference is to the book of Musa, Injeel. Please see the pattern: Eisa confirming of/from Taurah; INjeel confirming of/ from Taurah; this book, Alquran, confirming from/of Injeel, and by extension to Taurah as well since Injeel also contains Taurah. This concept is further reinforced by stating that you are not one group and that you have your distinct ways/methods. If this book Alquran is only talking about this book itself then it does not make sense to say that you have different Shara and distict ways, because the follower of this book have only single way, single shara which is stated in Alquran. It is therefore obvious to me that (i) this book Alquran is the latest in the series of the books, (ii) it contains same Ahkamaats that are in Taura and in Injeel, (iii) it is guardian (validator/calibrator) over the previous one, and (iv) it is not ditto copy of Injeel or Taurah. Therefore, it is erroneous to say that Alquran=Injeel=Taurah.  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 15 August 2011Report Abuse
Hello Brother Moazzam,  
 
Thank you for your reply.  
 
***Brother Dhulqarnain! Till you not understand the true sense and appropriate use of word اللّهَ and رَسُولَهُ in the light of core message of the guide book for each era (the Quran), you will not be able to understand the view point of any member of Aastana blog. Therefore I advised you time and again( Mr Naeem also suggested you the same), to go through/discuss the sense of Quranic terminologies first, otherwise Aastana and you will remain apart and never come at same wave length. ***  
 
Saying that I don’t understand certain terminologies is not a refutation of my analysis nor does it defend and forward your own position; you must understand this. You can only refute a position with provable concrete facts. Beautiful Nargis, who I have great affection for, made a couple of remarkable comments (which are supported by you and other Aastana members) which must be proven through Al-Quran or those comments must be rescinded.  
 
these were/are her comments:  
 
1. Quran is the First, the last, THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind.  
 
2. In this verse (3:21) the verbs used are not in past tense ,the verbs are  
یکفرون یقتلون These words can either be translated in present tense or future tense . these words can in no way be translated into past tense . So when this verse was revealed to prophet Mohammad there were so many انبیاء and it is a non ending continuous process . Now keeping in mind the verse 21 of sura 3 ( already discussed above ) , which clearly indicates that so many prophets انبیاء were present in the times of prophet Mohammad . This verse no 40 of sura 33 is declaring that Mohammad was the seal of the prophets , which simply means He was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
These are extremely powerful assertions and must be proven via Allah’s Words, and simply saying that I don’t understand etc. is not proof by anyone’s standard. You must prove these assertions via Al-Quran, otherwise, you are simply making things up and writing your own qaraa/Quran.  
 
I presented ayat 5:3 with the following explanation:  
 
5:3 …This day have I perfected your Deen and completed My favour to you and chosen for you Al- Islam as Deen…  
 
No other prophet-messenger was given those Words form Allah---only the Last Prophet was. Now, if you have proof to contrary that Allah gave those Words to some other prophet, then, by all means, post the ayat/proof and I will concede the point. If you cannot then you concede the point to Allah.  
 
Let’s stay on point/focused; no drifting. Please answer the following questions as they are absolutely pertinent to Narge’s above comments, thanks. None of them require any lengthy commentary so this should be easy.  
 
1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets, thanks.  
 
2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
7. Name one prophet who is alive today.  
 
8. In another thread you agreed that Al-Quran is the Last Revelation.  
 
NARGIS: Quran is the First,... the last...., THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind  
 
This being the case then, of what need are prophets... since the prophet who was given Al-Quran? They cannot, by your own admission, bring any new revelation since Al-Quran is the last revelation.  
 
You must answer these questions via Al-Quran, otherwise, you are simply making things up and writing your own qaraa/Quran.  
 
***Verse 8/20 يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَلاَ تَوَلَّوْا عَنْهُ وَأَنتُمْ تَسْمَعُونَ  
Translation: O you who have believed, obey Allah and His Messenger and do not turn from him while you hear [his order]. ***  
 
Btw, “believe”, in this ayat, is in the perfect tense, meaning, it includes past, present, and to come. You translated it to be “believed-past tense”, strictly. This is not accurate.  
 
Let’s not drift over to another ayat. We are addressing 8:20. Let me repeat the question to you.  
Who is the “him” to be obeyed in 8:20? Pick either “A” or “B”. This should pose no challenge to you.  
 
A. Allah  
 
B. The Messenger of Allah  
 
Looking forward to your reply/proofs.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 15 August 2011Report Abuse
Dawood,  
 
Really good job; well done.  
 
Dhulqarnain-

Comments by: waseemameer On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Dhulqurnain  
Can I dare to answer your question  
You said  
 
(Let’s not drift over to another ayat. We are addressing 8:20. Let me repeat the question to you.  
Who is the “him” to be obeyed in 8:20? Pick either “A” or “B”. This should pose no challenge to you.  
 
A. Allah  
 
B. The Messenger of Allah )  
 
These are the اطاعت for the same Ahkamaat, that is understood either through laws of nature or Alkitab. A person describing those laws called رسولہ  
 
Please note that in وَلَا تَوَلَّوْا عَنْهُ  
Anhu is pointing to singular, if the اطاعت for Allah(laws of nature/alkitab) and Rasool was to be different, Anhum would have been used

Comments by: waseemameer On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Dawood,  
Brother Moazzam will answer your question, I just want to add my comments regarding principle of understading of ayats( that is just my personal view)  
While interpreting ayaats, we should have the objective of Al-quran in front of us which is 2/213, and the interpretation should not lead us to a situation where we have to accept the stories described are the past stories, and not applicable to the todays' society. Fixing the terminologies with the persons/situations in the past will lead to non productive solution for the today's problems of the world.

Comments by: Waqar On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear brother Dhulqarnain and/or other Aastana members,  
 
Please help me understand 5:3  
"FORBIDDEN to you is carrion, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that over which any name other than God's has been invoked, and the animal that has been strangled, or beaten to death, or killed by a fall, or gored to death, or savaged by a beast of prey, save that which you [yourselves] may have slaughtered while it was still alive; and [forbidden to you is] all that has been slaughtered on idolatrous altars. And [you are forbidden] to seek to learn through divination what the future may hold in store for you: this is sinful conduct. Today, those who are bent on denying the truth have lost all hope of [your ever forsaking] your religion: do not, then, hold them in awe, but stand in awe of Me! Today have I perfected your religious law for you, and have bestowed upon you the full measure of My blessings, and willed that self-surrender unto Me shall be your religion. As for him, however, who is driven [to what is forbidden] by dire necessity and not by an inclination to sinning -behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace."  
 
1) What is the connection between dietary needs and completion of deen? Is deen is only about what to eat, what not to eat and how to eat?  
 
2) Who is being addressed in this verse? Was carrion, blood, flesh of swine, etc. etc. were allowed to previous messengers?  
 
3) Why should completion of deen mean that no more messenger is needed? If deen was completed in 5:3 then what was the need of other 109 verses and 117 ayats.  
 
4) Which day was deen perfected?  
 
 
Regards,  
Waqar

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Hello Waseemameer,  
 
You have not answered the question, yet.  
 
***Anhu is pointing to singular,***  
 
Anhu isn’t pointing to anything. Anhu/him, throughout Al-Quran, and you can do a search for yourself, IS the—third person masculine singular.  
 
Anhu is used in referring to both Allah and The Messenger”  
 
2:116 And they say: Allah has taken to Himself a son — glory be to Him ! Rather, whatever is in the heavens and the earth is His. All are obedient to Him.  
 
9:88 But the Messenger and those who believe with him strive hard with their property and their persons. And these it is for whom are the good things and these it is who are successful.  
 
Back to 8:20. In this ayat you wil find the term being used for both Allah and The Messenger:  
 
8:20 O you who believe, obey Allah and His Messenger and turn not away from him while you hear/hearken.  
 
So, I ask again…who is the “him” in 8:20?  
 
A. Allah  
 
B. The Messenger  
 
Looking forward to your reply.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: waseemameer On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Dhulqurnain  
 
Your options missing the real answer, so options should be  
 
A. Allah  
 
B. The Messenger  
 
C. Both A and B  
 
than I will go for C

Comments by: Nargis On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Dawood  
 
What is the difference in the previous books and the Quran?  
 
HOW can you implement a LAW (TAURA) without a system ...?  
 
WHAT is the glad tidings, happy news (InJeeL) about?  
How did Abraham qaem al salaat without the law, injeel or the Quran ?  
 
Dhul, ref for my STRONG STATEMENT about khatim alNABI is 33:40,and every aya where the word nabi is used, which is giving the meaning of a Nabi- And every aya where Rusool is mentioned, to understand 33:40 one also have to see these words and the Nabi and Rusools task.  
 
Name one messenger? I can name many, Abraham, Moses, Yusef, Mohammed , Eesa , nd so on. Your question should be, where are they ? Look for these characters , If developed in Those societies your looking in, then you will def find them.  
 
PS( I pick C, like Waseem Amar :P(not H) :D)  
 
I have limited access to internet, but don't worry, I'LL BE BACK- Maybe its a good thing, so I don't talk to much and then Dawood won't get confused and will finally answer my questions. :-D
 
 

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Nargy and Waseemameer,  
 
WASEEMAMEER: Your options missing the real answer, so options should be, A. Allah, B. The Messenger, C. Both A and B, than I will go for C  
 
NARGIS: PS( I pick C, like Waseem Amar :P(not H) :D)  
 
Thank God you didn’t pick “H” Narge, because I would have probably would have jumped I front of a speeding car out of exasperation! :D  
 
I didn’t offer the “C” option, because the ayat would then have to read:  
 
8:20 O you who believe! obey Allah and His Messenger and do not turn back from (ERROR)THEM/HUM (ERROR) while you hear.  
 
“Anhu” is a singular term not a plural one and that is why I did not have a “C” option.  
 
Given the situation what is your choice now? I’m not giving you guys a hard time, but this ayat is EXTREMELY important to understand.  
 
A. Allah  
 
B. The Messenger of Allah  
 
Looking forward to your reply.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Nargy,  
 
***Dhul, ref for my STRONG STATEMENT about khatim alNABI is 33:40,and every aya where the word nabi is used, which is giving the meaning of a Nabi- And every aya where Rusool is mentioned, to understand 33:40 one also have to see these words and the Nabi and Rusools task.***  
 
33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the prophets. And Allah is ever Knower of all things.  
 
3:21 Those who disbelieve in the messages of Allah and would slay the prophets unjustly and slay those among men who enjoin justice, announce to them a painful chastisement.  
 
I’m all for looking throughout Al-Quran to see how words are used, we have no dispute on that account, but whatever these terms mean it will not alter 33:40 or 3:21, that’s the point. My contention is you reject Muhammad, per ayat 33:40, as being the Last Prophet and, as a result of this position; you interpret 3:21 to mean that there were prophets at the time of Muhammad and, that prophethood is an ongoing institution/process up to the present. If you are going to maintain these positions then you must answer the following questions. I mean, given what you’re stating, the questions are VERY reasonable. It’s really important that you address each of the following or just rescind your assertions, yeah?  
 
1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
7. Name one prophet who is alive today.  
 
8. In another thread you agreed that Al-Quran is the Last Revelation.  
 
NARGIS: Quran is the First,... the last...., THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind  
 
This being the case then, of what need are prophets... since the prophet who was given Al-Quran? They cannot, by your own admission, bring any new revelation since Al-Quran is the last revelation.  
 
You know I respect you alot and have great affection for you Narge and that is why I’m asking you, and the others, to simply admit that you’re wrong about 8:20, 33:40 and 3:21. This is not a concession to me, but to Allah. I’m just asking you, and the others, to do the right thing here as you would ask of me. We, as Muslims, are OBLIGATED TO GET ALLAH’S MESSAGE RIGHT so that we don’t mislead ourselves or others and lose Paradise. Pride/ego (the dissatisfaction with the truth) must be abandoned when we (I include myself) are challenged to change our views; otherwise, we run the risk of becoming kaffirs (those who conceal the truth) and shaitans (those who mislead intentionally).  
 
Looking forward to your reply.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Waqar,  
 
***3) Why should completion of deen mean that no more messenger is needed?***  
You’re confusing messengers with prophets. There are no more prophets after Muhammad and that is why he is called the Last of the Prophets.  
 
33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the prophets. And Allah is ever Knower of all things.  
 
Allah, however, in ayat 44:5, says that He’s forever sending messengers.  
 
44:5 A command from Us — truly We are ever sending messengers  
 
***If deen was completed in 5:3 then what was the need of other 109 verses and 117 ayats.***  
 
What do you mean—190 verses and 117 ayats??  
 
***4) Which day was deen perfected?***  
 
As to the specific day, well, you will have to ask either Allah or Muhammad when you see them. Also, keep in mind that Al-Quran was revealed to Muhammad all at once and not over a period of 23 years as the Ritualists claim.  
 
***1) What is the connection between dietary needs and completion of deen? Is deen is only about what to eat, what not to eat and how to eat?***  
 
***2) Who is being addressed in this verse? Was carrion, blood, flesh of swine, etc. etc. were allowed to previous messengers?***  
 
In regard to your other questions, please start a separate thread and I will address then, thanks.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: Nargis On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
""I’m all for looking throughout Al-Quran to see how words are used, we have no dispute on that account, but whatever these terms mean it will not alter 33:40 or 3:21,""  
1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
 
ouukaayyy, then what is the difference between a Rusool and Nabi, whats their task ? Why is Mohammed the khatim al nabi and not khatim al rusool?  
 
33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the prophets. And Allah is ever Knower of all things.  
 
If Mohammed IS khatim al nabi, it means he is ALIVE,,,why is not written Mohammed WAS the khatim al nabi?  
 
Can you tell me where the Quran said Allah is the khatim al nabi ?  
 
HOW does Allah "appoint" messengers? Nabi/ Rusool ?

Comments by: Nargis On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
8:20----  
 
The Prophet was required to solve all human differences through the Quran (16:64).  
The Prophet was required to admonish and remind people through the Quran (50:45).  
Momineen are asked to obey the revelation from Allah (7:3).  
The Prophet was asked to obey the revelation sent down on him (10:109).  
He was asked to follow the Quran (75:18).  
Allah required the Prophet to follow the blessed Book sent down on him (6:155).  
The Prophet used to judge matters according to the revelation sent down on him (5:48).  
Those who do not judge matters according to what Allah has revealed are Kaafirs (5:44)  
 
Obeying Allah and Obeying The Prophet  
 
Are obeying Allah and obeying the Prophet two separate duties; one through the Quran and the other through... what?  
 
If a system is established on the Laws of the Quran by the Nabi, and people obeyed the Prophet, they actually obey Allah (4:80)  
 
"Yaa ayyuhal lazheena aamanu atee’ullaha wa attee’ur Rsoolahu wa laa tawallau ‘anho wa antum tasma’oon" [O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him while you are hearing.] (8:20)  
 
In this verse the pronoun used for Allah and the Messenger is singular (‘anho). If the reference had been to two separate obediences then, according to Arabic grammar, the pronoun should have been ‘anhuma (for two).  
 
 
"Say: "I would, if I disobeyed my Lord, indeed have fear of the Chastisement of a Mighty Day."" (6:15)  
 
"Nor call on any, other than Allah;-Such can neither profit thee nor hurt thee: if thou dost, behold! Thou shalt certainly be of those who do wrong." (10:196)traditional translation  
 
Conclusion  
 
there is no A or B . To obey Nabi, Rusool Allah is to obey Allah, without a message there is no Rusool, and the message is from one source.

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Narge,  
 
Come on now Nargy, ya gotta play fair. You’re asking me more questions, but you haven’t answered the 8 questions which I’ve put to you regarding YOUR claims. Those questions are very pertinent to your claims. Please answer them, because I’m sure your answers will clear a lot of things up for us. Thank you.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: dawood On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Waseemameer, SA:  
 
"Waseemameer: While interpreting ayaats, we should have the objective of Al-quran in front of us which is 2/213, and the interpretation should not lead us to a situation where we have to accept the stories described are the past stories, and not applicable to the todays' society. Fixing the terminologies with the persons/situations in the past will lead to non productive solution for the today's problems of the world."  
 
If I have used any reference to past stories, please point it out. I have simply used CONTEXT to state what I understood from these verses. Similarly, if I have fixed a terminology based on a story, please point it out. Then please explain it to me as to what that terminology means as per your understanding and that how does it fit in these verses.

Comments by: dawood On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear sister Nargis, SA:  
 
" Nargis: What is the difference in the previous books and the Quran?"  
 
Please pick up Taurah and Injeel and the Quran and read it for yourself. I can state one thing for sure that what does not tally with the Quran is that difference.  
 
"Nargis: HOW can you implement a LAW (TAURA) without a system ...?"  
 
This could become the topic of another thread.  
 
"Nargis: WHAT is the glad tidings, happy news (InJeeL) about?"  
 
This could also become the topic of another thread.  
 
" Nargis: How did Abraham qaem al salaat without the law, injeel or the Quran ?"  
You need to ask Ibrahim about this. Apparently, he had this: The Books of Abraham and Moses (87:19).  
 
I would request you and others to please point out mistakes in translation and understanding of those verses. Then please provide your translation and understanding, step by step, verse by verse. Thanks.

Comments by: dawood On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Dhulqarnain, Thanks.

Comments by: Nargis On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Dhulqarnain, I have answered question no 8, but you are not bothered to understand anything. I really don't learn anything by repeating myself, what for me in this debate ?  
 
And Dawood:- ha ha ha , what a nice move. And I thought only women hide behind veils.  
 
OK girls, googliigoggli, you play the Jekyll and hide game, We, errrm, Rajjals won't disturb you!!!!

Comments by: dawood On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Br. Moazzam, SA: Now lets look at the translation or the sense of the verses 3:3-4 that you provided  
“Moazzam: 7)TRANSLATION At your demand let me produce the interpretation (so called translation supported by the words written in brackets) …….  
3/3-4: It is He Who conceived in your(truth seeker) mind the true sense of the message written in Alkitab confirming what went (made understand the message of Alkitab) before this era, and He conceived in your mind the appropriate sense of Law(Taurah) , the Gospel (Injeel) and the use of (Alfurqan) the criterion of judgment between right and wrong (all are written in this book).The same Alkitab had been as a guide to mankind.”  
1. How do you know that you have got the true sense of the Message written in Alkitab?  
2. How do you confirm your understanding with “what went (made understand the message of Alkitab) before this era”? Do you know “ what was the understanding of the message of the Alkitab in the previous eras? How do you compare your understanding against the understanding in the previous eras? The only thing that could be compared is the written words from two documents.  
3. By looking at your translation and interpretation, I must say your understanding of the Arabic language is at elementary level, though better than me. I am sorry to say, it is more of a figment of your imagination than translation/interpretation.  

Comments by: waseemameer On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Dhulqurnain,  
REgarding the aya 8/20  
 
If you were taught physics in school, your teacher suppose to be good at physics. The physics will not educate you about itself, there has to be a Messenger/Teacher in between.  
That Messenger/Teacher is no different from Physics, rather he is interpreting those laws.  
Option C doesn't mean they are different, rather giving the same message that's y anhu is used.

Comments by: Universal-Lanati On 16 August 2011Report Abuse
***2. How do you confirm your understanding with “what went (made understand the message of Alkitab) before this era”? Do you know “ what was the understanding of the message of the Alkitab in the previous eras? How do you compare your understanding against the understanding in the previous eras? The only thing that could be compared is the written words from two documents.***  
 
You confirm your understanding of what went before this era by compare the claim to the Al kitab in hand.You honestly had problems to grasp it? Brother Moazzam, save your time and don't waste it on people who are young enough to know it all.

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Narge,  
 
No, you have not answered 1-8. You answered my question about ayat 8:20. Please back up your claims and answer 1-8. If not, then don't play games Sweety, just admit to the obvious that you CANNOT QURANICALLY PROVE YOUR CLAIMS and that you've misspoken. No problem.  
 
***8:20---- Obeying Allah and Obeying The Prophet  
 
Are obeying Allah and obeying the Prophet two separate duties; one through the Quran and the other through... what? If a system is established on the Laws of the Quran by the Nabi, and people obeyed the Prophet, they actually obey Allah (4:80)***  
 
You’re mixing things again, Narge. 8:20 says to Obey Allah and the Messenger NOT Obey Allah and the Prophet. Nowhere in Al-Quran will you find Allah saying to obey the Prophet not one place.  
 
The transliteration you posted shows messenger not prophet.  
 
"Yaa ayyuhal lazheena aamanu atee’ullaha wa attee’ur Rsoolahu wa laa tawallau ‘anho wa antum tasma’oon" [O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him while you are hearing.] (8:20)  
 
You asked in your previous post:  
 
***“ouukaayyy, then what is the difference between a Rusool and Nabi, whats their task ?”***  
 
The difference is—The Prophets could make mistakes—The Messengers could not. This is why Allah never says to obey the Prophet, but to obey the Messenger.  
 
***In this verse the pronoun used for Allah and the Messenger is singular (‘anho). If the reference had been to two separate obediences then, according to Arabic grammar, the pronoun should have been ‘anhuma (for two). Conclusion: there is no A or B . To obey Nabi, Rusool Allah is to obey Allah, without a message there is no Rusool, and the message is from one source.  
 
Correct! Now you are getting it Narge! However, you, once again, you stated “obey the prophet”. This is Quranically incorrect. You must refrain from saying “obey the prophet”.  
 
Of course! The ayat is stating that it all about obeying Allah!, He’s the one to be obeyed!, hence, the singular Him in 8:20.  
By obeying the Messenger one obeys Allah and The Message of Allah--Al-Quran. Since the death of the human Messenger, Muhammad, Al-Quran is now both The Message and The Messenger to mankind. Al-Quran IS the prophesied Messenger AHMAD (better; comparative form of hamid), in 61:6  
 
61:6 And when Jesus, son of Mary, said: O Children of Israel, surely I am the messenger of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Torah and giving the good news of a Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad. But when he came to them with clear arguments, they said: This is clear enchantment.  
 
This is why Muhammad was/is the Khatim al- Nabiyeen, because no other prophet was prophesied to come after him ( though he was foretold to come in the Torah and Injeel), why? because there would be no Message to mankind AFTER Al-Quran! Given there would be no Message after Al-Quran of what need then would it be for ongoing prophets? NONE! Still, however, there would be need for ongoing messengers. These messengers would be well grounded in the Message/Messenger—Al-Quran, and could then bring it to others. Consider the following ayat:  
 
3:144 And Muhammad is but a messenger — messengers have already passed away before him. If then he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels? And he who turns back upon his heels will do no harm at all to Allah. And Allah will reward the grateful.  
 
Clearly, Muhammad was destined to die, so Al-Quran had to be the Message/Messenger to continue after him.  
Look at the following ayat 6:19. It, as well, speaks to Al-Quran being The Messenger.  
 
6:19 Say: What thing is the weightiest in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me. And this Quran has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomever IT reaches…  
 
If Al-Quran reaches an individual and that individual embraces it, then, IT, was that individual’s Messenger bringing Allah’s Message.  
 
We know how to obey Him by following 6:106:  
 
6:106 Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord — there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists.  
 
1. Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord: Al-Quran was revealed so follow it only and alone for guidance.  
 
2. there is no god but He: Pure Monotheism  
 
3. turn away from the mushrikeen: those who take others for their guidance or others along with Allah for their guidance. Mushriks, obviously, reject or are not in accord with 1-2.  
 
6:106 demands that one study and take Al-Quran/The Words of Allah for their guidance.  
 
Narge, you now have the evidence which completely refutes any such notions that:  
 
1. Muhammad was NOT the Last Prophet.  
 
2. That there were prophets alive at the time of Muhammad.  
 
3. That there were prophets after the passing of Muhammad at anytime.  
 
Do you now concede to Allah (not to me) and His Messenger (not to me) that your positions regarding 3:21and 33:40, are incorrect? I really do hope so.  
 
10:32… And what is there after the Truth but error? How then are you turned away!  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: Universal-Lanati On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
 
The difference is—The Prophets could make mistakes—The Messengers could not. This is why Allah never says to obey the Prophet, but to obey the Messenger. Dhulqarnain  
 
Prove it from the Quran.

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Waseemameer,  
 
Your analogy makes no sense to me. Would please dispense with analogies and just answer the question plainly. Do you choose A or B or C, and why. Nargis, pretty much got it right, though.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: Yellow-cow On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
uff You dont andarstand waseemamar saying same thing first, same like nargis.he point out anhu first. uff you not coumprehend anything.

Comments by: waseemameer On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Dhulqurnain,  
 
What answer you want us to choose? You tell and give reasons and than we'll go ahead from there.

Comments by: Universal-Lanati On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear brother Waseem, this forum is a research forum, Dhulqarnain and Dawood are not here to learn, rather they are here to teach us their mullah ism. I request you and others not to waste their time on them any more. It is really boringJust read through this thread and other threads, they dont read or answer questions, and Dhulqarnain is giving his own definitions of prophets and messengers without referring to the Quran. Forum is for research and not for a discussion based on personal opinions and orthodox translations. Let's keep the level high, they can join Free minds or Our beacon.Brother Moazzam and Junaid said it in the beginning, and they were right, these kind of discussions are waste of time. We should again start our research on the Quraniq terminologies, like your own threads, they are very informing. Thank You

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
DHULQARNAIN: The difference is—The Prophets could make mistakes—The Messengers could not. This is why Allah never says to obey the Prophet, but to obey the Messenger.  
 
LANATI: Prove it from the Quran.  
 
The Prophet making mistakes:  
 
66:1 O Prophet, why dost thou forbid (thyself) that which Allah has made lawful for thee? Seekest thou to please thy wives? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.  
 
33:37 And when thou saidst to him to whom Allah had shown favour and to whom thou hadst shown a favour: Keep thy wife to thyself and keep thy duty to Allah; and thou concealedst in thy heart what Allah would bring to light, and thou fearedst men, and Allah has a greater right that thou shouldst fear Him. So when Zaid dissolved her marriage-tie, We gave her to thee as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers about the wives of their adopted sons, when they have dissolved their marraige-tie. And Allah’s command is ever performed.  
 
Messengers do not make mistakes:  
 
7:60-61 The chiefs of his people said: Surely we see thee in clear error. He said: O my people, there is no error in me, but I am a messenger from the Lord of the worlds.  
 
Dhulqarnain-

Comments by: waseemameer On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Dhulqurnain,  
Regarding 7:60-61  
Not your fault , in english zalaal can only be translated as "error", that's y brother Moazzam said it can not be translated but can be comprehended.  
see ayat 2/16,2/175 for the defination of Zalaal

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
***Dear brother Waseem, this forum is a research forum, Dhulqarnain and Dawood are not here to learn, rather they are here to teach us their mullah ism. I request you and others not to waste their time on them any more. It is really boringJust read through this thread and other threads, they dont read or answer questions, and Dhulqarnain is giving his own definitions of prophets and messengers without referring to the Quran. Forum is for research and not for a discussion based on personal opinions and orthodox translations. Let's keep the level high, they can join Free minds or Our beacon.Brother Moazzam and Junaid said it in the beginning, and they were right, these kind of discussions are waste of time. We should again start our research on the Quraniq terminologies, like your own threads, they are very informing. Thank You***  
 
Do you bother to read what comes out of your head before you post it? Just so you know, this is a rhetorical question.  
 
You're bored because you, apparently, are not able to participate at this level. Plainly the discussion is above you. Children are often bored in the company of adults. All you do is ask nonsensical questions and indulge in ad hominem. Very bratty behavior indeed.  
 
Dawood and I are proffering sound Quranic arguements none of which YOU can refute, now can you?  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Waseemameer,  
 
***Dhulqurnain, Regarding 7:60-61 Not your fault , in english zalaal can only be translated as "error", that's y brother Moazzam said it can not be translated but can be comprehended. see ayat 2/16,2/175 for the defination of Zalaal.***  
 
Did Allah say it couldn’t be translated? You keep following Moazzam. You and several others here have forgotten that…there is no god but Allah.  
 
I comprehend the term just fine.  
 
Don’t you know that all humans are dzalla until they are guided by Allah…even those who eventually became the prophets and the messengers?  
 
Anyway, Dzalla is defined as follows:  
 
1. to lose one’s way.  
2. go astray.  
3. fail.  
4. err.  
5. wander from.  
6. forget.  
7. waste.  
8. deviate.  
9. mislead from the right path.  
10. confusion  
11. uncertainty  
12. deluder  
13. anxiety  
14. absence  
15. one who seduces  
16 etc.  
Dictionary of the Quran, by Abdul Mannan Omar, pg. 333  
 
So, no, error isn’t the only translation in English.  
 
None of Allah’s messengers could be guilty of the above…or do you say that they were?  
 
Let me ask you a few of questions:  
 
1. Is it your position that there were other prophets at the time of Muhammad?  
 
2. Is it your position that the prophethood continues to this very day?  
 
3. Is it your position that Muhammad wasn't the last prophet?  
 
4. Is it your position that Al-Quran is the first, last, and only revelation to mankind.  
 
Just curious.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: waseemameer On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Ok Dhulqurnain, This is making the discussion going in another direction, and I revert back to your original question.  
 
I again asked you, what option you want us to pick? and also please state the reasons, and go from there. As you said this ayat is very important. Well all the ayaats are very important.  
Please go ahead and pick the option and lets concentrate on what you want to say/comprehend from this ayat.  
 
 
Also Dhulqurnain you said  
 
( The difference is—The Prophets could make mistakes—The Messengers could not. This is why Allah never says to obey the Prophet, but to obey the Messenger. )  
 
33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the prophets. And Allah is ever Knower of all things.  
 
According to your definittion, a person can either be messenger or prophet, but accordig to above verse he is both.  
How would your definition fit here. Or do you want to say that Muhammad used to make mistakes, when he was prophet , but when he became messenger, he stopped doing mistakes.  

Comments by: PRIEST BOKMEI On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Waseemamer.  
 
***Ok Dhulqurnain, This is making the discussion going in another direction, and I revert back to your original question. I again asked you, what option you want us to pick? and also please state the reasons, and go from there. As you said this ayat is very important. Well all the ayaats are very important. Please go ahead and pick the option and lets concentrate on what you want to say/comprehend from this ayat.***  
 
The discussion is not going in a different direction…it is the same discussion that’s been taking place here. I discussed my option in my above reply to Nargis the Beautiful. Didn’t you read it? I chose the only option that could be chosen—A. I’ll repost it here for you. I still want you to answer the questions I asked you.  
 
1. Is it your position that there were other prophets at the time of Muhammad?  
 
2. Is it your position that the prophethood continues to this very day?  
 
3. Is it your position that Muhammad wasn't the last prophet?  
 
4. Is it your position that Al-Quran is the first, last, and only revelation to mankind.  
 
 
NARGE,  
 
***8:20---- Obeying Allah and Obeying The Prophet. Are obeying Allah and obeying the Prophet two separate duties; one through the Quran and the other through... what? If a system is established on the Laws of the Quran by the Nabi, and people obeyed the Prophet, they actually obey Allah (4:80)***  
 
You’re mixing things again, Narge. 8:20 says to Obey Allah and the Messenger NOT Obey Allah and the Prophet. Nowhere in Al-Quran will you find Allah saying to obey the Prophet not one place.  
 
The transliteration you posted shows messenger not prophet.  
 
"Yaa ayyuhal lazheena aamanu atee’ullaha wa attee’ur Rsoolahu wa laa tawallau ‘anho wa antum tasma’oon" [O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him while you are hearing.] (8:20)  
 
You asked in your previous post:  
 
***“ouukaayyy, then what is the difference between a Rusool and Nabi, whats their task ?”***  
 
The difference is—The Prophets could make mistakes—The Messengers could not. This is why Allah never says to obey the Prophet, but to obey the Messenger.  
 
***In this verse the pronoun used for Allah and the Messenger is singular (‘anho). If the reference had been to two separate obediences then, according to Arabic grammar, the pronoun should have been ‘anhuma (for two). Conclusion: there is no A or B . To obey Nabi, Rusool Allah is to obey Allah, without a message there is no Rusool, and the message is from one source.  
 
Correct! Now you are getting it Narge! However, you, once again, you stated “obey the prophet”. This is Quranically incorrect. You must refrain from saying “obey the prophet”.  
 
Of course! The ayat is stating that it all about obeying Allah!, He’s the one to be obeyed!, hence, the singular Him in 8:20.  
 
By obeying the Messenger one obeys Allah and The Message of Allah--Al-Quran. Since the death of the human Messenger, Muhammad, Al-Quran is now both The Message and The Messenger to mankind. Al-Quran IS the prophesied Messenger AHMAD (better; comparative form of hamid), in 61:6  
 
61:6 And when Jesus, son of Mary, said: O Children of Israel, surely I am the messenger of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Torah and giving the good news of a Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad. But when he came to them with clear arguments, they said: This is clear enchantment.  
 
This is why Muhammad was/is the Khatim al- Nabiyeen, because no other prophet was prophesied to come after him ( though he was foretold to come in the Torah and Injeel), why? because there would be no Message to mankind AFTER Al-Quran! Given there would be no Message after Al-Quran of what need then would it be for ongoing prophets? NONE! Still, however, there would be need for ongoing messengers. These messengers would be well grounded in the Message/Messenger—Al-Quran, and could then bring it to others. Consider the following ayat:  
 
3:144 And Muhammad is but a messenger — messengers have already passed away before him. If then he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels? And he who turns back upon his heels will do no harm at all to Allah. And Allah will reward the grateful.  
 
Clearly, Muhammad was destined to die, so Al-Quran had to be the Message/Messenger to continue after him.  
Look at the following ayat 6:19. It, as well, speaks to Al-Quran being The Messenger.  
 
6:19 Say: What thing is the weightiest in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me. And this Quran has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomever IT reaches…  
 
If Al-Quran reaches an individual and that individual embraces it, then, IT, was that individual’s Messenger bringing Allah’s Message.  
 
We know how to obey Him by following 6:106:  
 
6:106 Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord — there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists.  
 
1. Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord: Al-Quran was revealed so follow it only and alone for guidance.  
 
2. there is no god but He: Pure Monotheism  
 
3. turn away from the mushrikeen: those who take others for their guidance or others along with Allah for their guidance. Mushriks, obviously, reject or are not in accord with 1-2.  
 
6:106 demands that one study and take Al-Quran/The Words of Allah for their guidance.  
 
Narge, you now have the evidence which completely refutes any such notions that:  
 
1. Muhammad was NOT the Last Prophet.  
 
2. That there were prophets alive at the time of Muhammad.  
 
3. That there were prophets after the passing of Muhammad at anytime.  
 
Do you now concede to Allah (not to me) and His Messenger (not to me) that your positions regarding 3:21and 33:40, are incorrect? I really do hope so.  
 
10:32… And what is there after the Truth but error? How then are you turned away!  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: PRIEST BOKMEI On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Waseemameer,  
 
***According to your definittion, a person can either be messenger or prophet, but accordig to above verse he is both.***  
 
Some prophets, like Abraham, were only prophets. Others, like Jesus, were both messenger and prophet.  
 
***How would your definition fit here. Or do you want to say that Muhammad used to make mistakes, when he was prophet , but when he became messenger, he stopped doing mistakes***  
 
Exactly!  
 
Prophet and messenger were two capacities of the individual, Muhammad. Muhammad was only the Messenger when he was reciting Al-Quran/The Message/The Words of Allah. Given that there are NO MISTAKES in the Words of Allah, what he recited then, from Allah, was without error, because Allah cannot make a mistake in what He reveals.  
 
4:82 Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy.  
 
10:32 And this Quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah… there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds  
 
Deuteronomy 18:17-18 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. *I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and WILL PUT MY WORDS IN HIS MOUTH; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.  
 
When Muhammad was not reciting Al-Quran then he was the Prophet capable of making mistakes, which he did at times.  
 
What is your position on the following?  
 
1. Is it your position that there were other prophets at the time of Muhammad?  
 
2. Is it your position that the prophethood continues to this very day?  
 
3. Is it your position that Muhammad wasn't the last prophet?  
 
4. Is it your position that Al-Quran is the first, last, and only revelation to mankind.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: waseemameer On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
(What is your position on the following?  
 
1. Is it your position that there were other prophets at the time of Muhammad?  
 
2. Is it your position that the prophethood continues to this very day?  
 
3. Is it your position that Muhammad wasn't the last prophet?  
 
4. Is it your position that Al-Quran is the first, last, and only revelation to mankind. )  
 
1. yes  
 
2. yes  
 
3. yes  
 
4. Al-quran is the only revelation 15/90-91  
 
I want to ask you a question?  
What do you think the duties of Prophets are/were?

Comments by: moazzam On 17 August 2011
Dear Dhulqarnain! No doubt, you are a good interpreter of Quran based on orthodox translations, which Aastana has already rejected logically/rationally, grammatically, with respect of core message of Quran, and context of Quran as well.  
Because this translation drags DEEN E IBRAHIMI to MAZHAB/SECTS WHICH ULTIMATELY TURNS IN FUTILE RITUALS AND DOGMAS.  
Until unless you not read or try to understand the BASIC QURANIC TERMINOLOGIES PRESENTED HERE AT BLOG it would be just waste of time to discuss any topic/ issue with Aastana members, while keeping in your hand the already rejected material.  
YES, YOU ARE WELCOME TO DISCUSS AT THE QURANIC TERMINOLOGIES LIKE,SALAT,SAUM,HAJJ,ALKITAB,RASOOL, NABI, MALAIKA, SHEITAN, YAHOOD, NASARAH,TAURAH,INJEEL, NAZOOL WAHY,KHATIM ANNABI, MOHAMMAD ETC ETC.  
PRIOR TO GO A HEAD. I astonished why you relectant to read/discuss the said terminologies even you not agree just to touch them.  
ALTHOUGH THIS IS HIGH LEVEL RESEARCH (I think, you are the most suitable person for the same). HOPE YOU WILL GRASP EASILY THE ESSENCE OF ALL THE SAID TERMINOLOGIES WITH A SLIGHT FOCUS ON THEM.  
I have already gone through almost all the orthodox translations/Tafaseer 25 year ago, being a meager student of Quran I request you please come forward and have a look one by one at the terminologies mentioned above OR the books/articles available at this blog. Any correction/ suggestion would be highly appreciated.THANKS  
 

Comments by: moazzam On 17 August 2011
Dear Dawood! Regards.  
Dawood: 1. How do you know that you have got the true sense of the Message written in Alkitab?  
Moazzam: By RATAL AL QURAN that is observing Tasreef Al Ayaat, context , core message, also laws of nature and lexicon as well.  
Dawood: 2. How do you confirm your understanding with “what went (made understand the message of Alkitab) before this era”? Do you know “ what was the understanding of the message of the Alkitab in the previous eras? How do you compare your understanding against the understanding in the previous eras? The only thing that could be compared is the written words from two documents.  
 
Moazzam: I think you didn’t pay attention at the verses 3/81-84 and 2/2-3 focus at terms MUTTAQEEN,AQEEM ASSALATA, YUNFIQOON, YUMINOON, AL GAIB, AKHIRAH POSSESS the message which produces the same results. Read the translation of Dr Qamar for verse 2/4 as under.  
وَالَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَا أُنزِلَ مِن قَبْلِكَ وَبِالْآخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ  
اور وہ لوگ ان احکامات کے ذریعے جو تم کو دئے گئے اور جو تم سے پہلے بھی دئے گئے امن قائم کرتے ہیں اور مکافات عمل پر یقین رکھتے ہیں۔  
مباحث:۔  
وحی الہی ہمیشہ ایک ہی رہی ہے اور ایک ہی رہے گی دیکھئے سورۃشوریٰ کی آیت ۱۳۔ اس لئے جو احکامات محمدرسول اللہ کو ملےوہ ہو بہو وہی ہیں جو پہلے انبیاء کو ملے تھے۔  
 
Dawood: 3. By looking at your translation and interpretation, I must say your understanding of the Arabic language is at elementary level, though better than me. I am sorry to say, it is more of a figment of your imagination than translation/interpretation.  
Moazzam: As I tolled you before that, I don’t believe in translation of Quran rather the comprehension/sense of the Divine message.  
I produced the interpretation (so called translation supported by the words written in brackets).  
I didn’t claim about the proficiency in Arabic language, but ALHAMDULILLAH, I try to understand the Quranic language (Arabiyun mubeen) not the Arabic language. Remember The Arab native knows better Arabic than us, but most of them still following the Rituals/Dogmas, far from understanding the true message of Quran.  
 
 
قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ  

Comments by: PRIEST BOKMEI On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Waseemameer, Nargy, Moazzam,  
 
***I want to ask you a question? What do you think the duties of Prophets are/were?***  
 
Their duty was to announce something or to foretell something.  
 
The following ayats capture what makes a prophet different from other human beings:  
 
3:81 And when Allah made a covenant through the prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and Wisdom — then a Messenger comes to you verifying that which is with you, you shall believe in him, and you shall aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.  
 
42:51 And it is not for any mortal that Allah should speak to him, except by revelation or from behind a veil, or by sending a messenger and revealing by His permission what He pleases. Surely He is High, Wise. And thus did We reveal to thee an inspired Book by Our command. Thou knewest not what the Book was, nor (what) Faith (was), but We made it a light, guiding thereby whom We please of Our servants. And surely thou guidest to the right path —  
 
The two key features of a prophet then, vital to his being able to announce or forteell something, are:  
 
1. He is chosen/appointed by Allah and not by other humans as Nargy has stated:  
 
***NARGIS:…This verse no 40 of sura 33 is declaring that Mohammad was the seal of the prophets , which simply means He was the appointing authority of other prophets.***  
 
2. H is given revelation/wahy which is “sent down”/nazzala from Allah. Wahy is not sent from human to human or from human to Allah.  
 
Nazzala/sent down” is not directional in the “up and down” sense, rather, it is “directional” in the sense that revelation comes FROM Allah TO man. This why Fatiha is not a sura, because it, “directionally” speaking, is FROM man TO Allah.  
 
(DHULQARNAIN: What is your position on the following? )  
 
1. Is it your position that there were other prophets at the time of Muhammad?  
 
2. Is it your position that the prophethood continues to this very day?  
 
3. Is it your position that Muhammad wasn't the last prophet?  
 
4. Is it your position that Al-Quran is the first, last, and only revelation to mankind. )  
 
WASEEMAMEER:1. Yes; 2. Yes; 3. Yes; 4. Al-quran is the only revelation 15/90-91  
 
Okay then. If you’re answers are correct, then I will ask you to do what I asked of Nargy and Moazzam, which they still haven't done yet, btw, and that is to now prove your answers to the following with ayats:  
 
1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
7. Name one prophet who is alive today.  
 
Looking forward to your reply.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: Nargis2 On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Thank you brother Moazzam :)

Comments by: PRIEST BOKMEI On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
NARGY,  
 
***NARGIS: In this verse the verbs used are not in past tense ,the verbs are  
یکفرون یقتلون These words can either be translated in present tense or future tense . these words can in no way be translated into past tense . So when this verse was revealed to prophet Mohammad there were so many انبیاء and it is a non ending continuous process . Now keeping in mind the verse 21 of sura 3 ( already discussed above ) , which clearly indicates that so many prophets انبیاء were present in the times of prophet Mohammad . This verse no 40 of sura 33 is declaring that Mohammad was the seal of the prophets , which simply means He was the appointing authority of other prophets  
 
This is patently wrong. Imperfect verbs usually address the past, but to determine if it is the past or not, then you MUST answer the following:  
 
1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
7. Name one prophet who is alive today.  
 
When are you, Moazzam, Wassemameer, Cow/Lanati, Naeem Sheikh, Dr. Zaman, or whoever, going to answer 1-7? Now,I know that all of the aforementioned people agree with your positions and, as with yourself, are high powered researchers, yet, not one of you, with all your research, has stepped forward to address items 1-7. And, you know what? None of you will EVER come forward, because you know full well that you cannot prove, via Al-Quran, 1-7. Do you know why? It’s because it CANNOT be done! You know this, yet, you will not rescind your claim. Again, in the following ayat 8:20, you wrote “obeying the prophet”, knowing full well that nabi is not in that ayat and that it reads --“obeying the messenger. Yet, you have not rescinded this serious mistake. When we don't acknowledge and correct our mistakes, we end up misleading ourselves and others, and, we misrepresent Allah's and His Words. What is going on, Nargy?! :(  
 
NARGE: 8:20---- Obeying Allah and Obeying The Prophet. Are obeying Allah and obeying the Prophet two separate duties;  
 
Looking forward to your reply.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: PRIEST BOKMEI On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Moazzam,  
 
***I astonished why you relectant to read/discuss the said terminologies even you not agree just to touch them.***  
 
I’m not opposed at all to discussing “terminologies” , but I’m not willing to discuss “terminologies” for “terminologies” sake. I discuss “terminologies” as they arise in a discussion. For example, I’m currently discussing nabi/prophet here:  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?MID=4&SID=40&QID=1577  
 
***WASEEMAMEER: I want to ask you a question? What do you think the duties of Prophets are/were?***  
 
DHULQARNAIN:Their duty was to announce something or to foretell something.  
 
The following ayats capture what makes a prophet different from other human beings:  
 
3:81 And when Allah made a covenant through the prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and Wisdom — then a Messenger comes to you verifying that which is with you, you shall believe in him, and you shall aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.  
 
42:51 And it is not for any mortal that Allah should speak to him, except by revelation or from behind a veil, or by sending a messenger and revealing by His permission what He pleases. Surely He is High, Wise. And thus did We reveal to thee an inspired Book by Our command. Thou knewest not what the Book was, nor (what) Faith (was), but We made it a light, guiding thereby whom We please of Our servants. And surely thou guidest to the right path —  
 
DHULQARNAIN: The two key features of a prophet then, vital to his being able to announce or foretell something, are:  
 
1. He is chosen/appointed by Allah and not by other humans as Nargy has stated:  
 
Nargis claims that a human, Muhammad, appointed other prophets.  
 
***NARGIS:…This verse no 40 of sura 33 is declaring that Mohammad was the seal of the prophets , which simply means He was the appointing authority of other prophets.***  
 
***NARGIS FULL QUOTE: In this verse (3:21) the verbs used are not in past tense ,the verbs are  
یکفرون یقتلون These words can either be translated in present tense or future tense . these words can in no way be translated into past tense . So when this verse was revealed to prophet Mohammad there were so many انبیاء and it is a non ending continuous process . Now keeping in mind the verse 21 of sura 3 ( already discussed above ) , which clearly indicates that so many prophets انبیاء were present in the times of prophet Mohammad . This verse no 40 of sura 33 is declaring that Mohammad was the seal of the prophets , which simply means He was the appointing authority of other prophets. ***  
 
2. H is given revelation/wahy which is “sent down”/nazzala from Allah. Wahy is not sent from human to human or from human to Allah.  
 
Nazzala/sent down” is not directional in the “up and down” sense, rather, it is “directional” in the sense that revelation comes FROM Allah TO man. This why Fatiha is not a sura, because it, “directionally” speaking, is FROM man TO Allah.  
 
Moazzam, is my analysis of nabl/prophet, correct? If I’m incorrect, then you MUST explain the following:  
 
1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
7. Name one prophet who is alive today.  
 
Looking forward to your reply.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 
 

Comments by: dawood On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
SA, Br. Moazzam:  
 
"Moazzam: I think you didn’t pay attention at the verses 3/81-84 and 2/2-3 focus at terms MUTTAQEEN,AQEEM ASSALATA, YUNFIQOON, YUMINOON, AL GAIB, AKHIRAH POSSESS the message which produces the same results."  
 
First, we are moving away from the topic: My previous post was to question your position which goes something like this AlQuran=INjeel=Tourah, etc. Please respond to my comments/questions/concerns in that post. Don't confuse it with other stuff in this thread.  
 
"Moazzam: Read the translation of Dr Qamar for verse 2/4 as under.  
وَالَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَا أُنزِلَ مِن قَبْلِكَ وَبِالْآخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ  
اور وہ لوگ ان احکامات کے ذریعے جو تم کو دئے گئے اور جو تم سے پہلے بھی دئے گئے امن قائم کرتے ہیں اور مکافات عمل پر یقین رکھتے ہیں۔  
مباحث:۔  
وحی الہی ہمیشہ ایک ہی رہی ہے اور ایک ہی رہے گی دیکھئے سورۃشوریٰ کی آیت ۱۳۔ اس لئے جو احکامات محمدرسول اللہ کو ملےوہ ہو بہو وہی ہیں جو پہلے انبیاء کو ملے تھے۔ "  
 
Please note the word "Ahkamat" in Dr. QZ's translation. Do you think this AlQuran carries Ahkamaats and nothing else?  
 
"Moazzam: As I tolled you before that, I don’t believe in translation of Quran rather the comprehension/sense of the Divine message. I produced the interpretation (so called translation supported by the words written in brackets).  
I didn’t claim about the proficiency in Arabic language, but ALHAMDULILLAH, I try to understand the Quranic language (Arabiyun mubeen) not the Arabic language. Remember The Arab native knows better Arabic than us, but most of them still following the Rituals/Dogmas, far from understanding the true message of Quran."  
 
Dear Br. If you yourself have come to this conclusion that Quranic text cannot be translated exactly in other languages and that you need to use stuff in brackets to get the desired meanings, then why do you blame the orthodox translations? they do the same thing. The only difference that I find is that Orthodox translations get their words in bracket from Hadeethy sources, and you get your words to be used in brackets from already established ideas in your mind that this must mean this and that. As an example, you talk about the context, yet you avoid using it while interpreting 5:48. Is it that the context in 5:48 nullifies your already established preconceived ideas? Which group is worse, the one already putting us to sleep via rituals and stories or the one taking us for a ride through its own land of fantasies?  
 
As far as language is concerned, it is an undeniable fact that it is in Arabic Language. One cannot get the proper sense of a written passage without having a due recourse to the underlying structure of the language in which that passage is written, in this case Arabic Language.  
 

Comments by: dawood On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Universal Lanati:  
 
" Dear brother Waseem, this forum is a research forum, Dhulqarnain and Dawood are not here to learn, rather they are here to teach us their mullah ism. I request you and others not to waste their time on them any more...."  
 
Can you please define in your own words,  
1. what is research? And how research is conducted?  
2. What is learning and how it could be maximized and internalized?

Comments by: Universal-Lanati On 17 August 2011Report Abuse
Dawood,  
 
اور وہ لوگ ان احکامات کے ذریعے جو تم کو دئے گئے اور جو تم سے پہلے بھی دئے گئے امن قائم کرتے ہیں اور مکافات عمل پر یقین رکھتے ہیں۔  
 
Is the word Ahkamaat a reference to the source of Amn, which is needed for the system ? Please read the last part.  
 
Secondly, you said Moazzam is interpreting the Quran with the preconceived ideas in his mind, how do you know that?  
 
Moazzam have explained how he study a verse, he even wrote it here in this thread, did you ignore it on purpose?  
 
If you really understood what Moazzam said :- Moazzam: I think you didn’t pay attention at the verses 3/81-84 and 2/2-3 focus at terms MUTTAQEEN,AQEEM ASSALATA, YUNFIQOON, YUMINOON, AL GAIB, AKHIRAH POSSESS the message which produces the same results. Read the translation of Dr Qamar for verse 2/4 as under.  
 
Then please would you be kind and share your understanding with us, so we know you understood his answer, because that is very much related to your question. Please explain what you understood from Moazzam's reply.  
 
You know a lot, so please explain 5:48 through rattal and tasreef, you may ask your imams or mullahs to help you out.  
 
Dawood:- Now another group “Ahl-e-Injeel” is introduced in 5:47. Again, if INjeel=Taurah, why call another group “Ahl-e-Injeel?” Why not “Ahl-e-Taurah?” Does it make any sense? It is therefore obvious that Injeel and Taurah are not the same, ditto copies of each other. 5:47 further states that the people of Injeel should judge what Allah has revealed (Anzala). Therefore, Anzala cannot mean anything other than the orders (Hukm) mentioned in the book called Injeel. ***  
 
If a University have faculty of law, faculty of medicine, faculty of psychology, would a student of psychology call himself ahle law?People of Injeel have to solve matters through what's revealed,are these orders different than the orders in the Quran?

Comments by: Universal-Lanati On 18 August 2011Report Abuse
1. what is research? And how research is conducted?  
2. What is learning and how it could be maximized and internalized?Dawood***  
 
First, we are moving away from the topic: Don't confuse it with other stuff in this thread.  
 
1.This could become the topic of another thread.  
 
2.This could also become the topic of another thread

Comments by: waseemameer On 18 August 2011Report Abuse
Dhulqurnain  
 
first you said  
(( The difference is—The Prophets could make mistakes—The Messengers could not. This is why Allah never says to obey the Prophet, but to obey the Messenger. ) )  
Than you said  
 
((The two key features of a prophet then, vital to his being able to announce or forteell something, are:  
 
1. He is chosen/appointed by Allah and not by other humans as Nargy has stated:  
 
***NARGIS:…This verse no 40 of sura 33 is declaring that Mohammad was the seal of the prophets , which simply means He was the appointing authority of other prophets.***  
 
2. H is given revelation/wahy which is “sent down”/nazzala from Allah. Wahy is not sent from human to human or from human to Allah. ))  
 
So when he got wahi from Allah he is prophet, than he delivered that message to people he is messenger, and than he start making mistakes, he become prophet again.  
As per you, if NABI makes mistakes, y would Allah revealed wahi to Nabi, y not to messengers.  
Dhulqurnain, fortelling future is definition from Greek  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet  
 
You making this Al-kitab a bunch of past stories my dear. World needs practical solution not stories. Think about it.

Comments by: Nargis On 18 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Waseemamar, its an honour to have you with us. Your ability to see and understanding is just woow.Thanks a lot.  
 
""So when he got wahi from Allah he is prophet, than he delivered that message to people he is messenger, and than he start making mistakes, he become prophet again.  
 
As per you, if NABI makes mistakes, y would Allah revealed wahi to Nabi, y not to messengers. "" Waseem Amar  
 
:):) Fantastic  
 
( But the answer you will get is:- "Ask Allah why he sent wahy to a prophet making mistakes, dont ask me.Allah said they foretell stories, not me, why you asking me, I don't want to talk about terminologies or answer questions, I ignored questions regarding 4:24-25 in earlier discussions, I ignored questions regarding month ramadan and that's how I try to win a debate, so I want you to answer my questions, let me win this debate". wait and watch.)Oops, now I'm foretelling something,,,am I ..:-O Can't say the word,Mashallah astaghfarallah

Comments by: waseemameer On 18 August 2011Report Abuse
Sis NARGIS  
You are a good foreteller.  
See if your guess becomes true

Comments by: Nargis On 18 August 2011Report Abuse
Oh yes it will, but in different words though :-D

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 18 August 2011Report Abuse
Nargy,  
 
***So when he got wahi from Allah he is prophet, than he delivered that message to people he is messenger, and than he start making mistakes, he become prophet again. As per you, if NABI makes mistakes, y would Allah revealed wahi to Nabi, y not to messengers.***  
 
I really cannot believe you’re this simple minded. Anyway, Allah created human beings and, while perfect as creations/ayats, they are not perfect in their behavior nor were they meant to be. The Last Prophet was a human being of high moral character, yet, refined as his character was it could not prevent him from making mistakes. If any human being could live a life mistake free, well, that person would not be human, but God for only He is error free. So, as nabi, yes, he made mistakes just like any other human being, but while reciting Al-Quran, in the capacity of The Messenger, HIS RECITATION WAS PERFECT AND FREE OF MISTAKE. This is because what he spoke were the error free Words of Allah Himself. You asked, “y would Allah revealed wahi to Nabi, y not to messengers”? Well, Allah did reveal wahy to a Messenger—Jibril. Guess you forgot that, eh? Some nabi were never messenger prophets while some others were, however, messenger prophets were still human beings. Muhammad was a messenger prophet, and as such, wahy was revealed to him. However, when he recited Al-Quran/The Message he was acting in the capacity of Messenger to his people. That you cannot intellectualyl grasp this simple matter is just…stunning.  
 
It is sad that you're last two posts were spent mocking rather than defending your position regarding 3:21. You mock because you're busted now and it's the only thing left for you to do, because you can't defend your claim. It is better and more dignified to just admit when you're wrong and grow from it as opposed to further underming your credibiltiy and stunting you growth. But keep this in mind, you're not mocking me, you're making a mockery of yourself and worse---you're mocking Allah and His Words. Very sad, Nargy, because I really am very fond of you. :(  
 
***NARGIS FULL QUOTE: In this verse (3:21) the verbs used are not in past tense ,the verbs are  
یکفرون یقتلون These words can either be translated in present tense or future tense . these words can in no way be translated into past tense . So when this verse was revealed to prophet Mohammad there were so many انبیاء and it is a non ending continuous process . Now keeping in mind the verse 21 of sura 3 ( already discussed above ) , which clearly indicates that so many prophets انبیاء were present in the times of prophet Mohammad . This verse no 40 of sura 33 is declaring that Mohammad was the seal of the prophets , which simply means He was the appointing authority of other prophets. ***  
 
1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
7. Name one prophet who is alive today.  
 
I guess you’re going to prove me right on two accounts, eh?:  
 
1. That you could backup your above claim by answering questions 1-7  
 
2. That I told you that you would not back it up, because you cannot back it up with Al-Quran.  
 
***You making this Al-kitab a bunch of past stories my dear. World needs practical solution not stories. Think about***  
 
No, Nargy Beautiful…it is you who is making Al-Quran into a bunch of stories. Not proving your above claim/STORYabout 3:21 certainly proves that beyond any shadow of a doubt.  
 
***Dhulqurnain, fortelling future is definition from Greek http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet ***  
 
And your point…is..what..exactly? Wasn’t the foretelling of the coming of Muhammad mentioned in ayats 7:157 and 61:6?  
 
Looking forward to your reply.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: waseemameer On 18 August 2011Report Abuse
Dhulqurnain,  
Below is the answer Dr. sahab gave about Nabi and 33/40  
 
**********Rasool is a messenger so logically a Rasool can not be a Rasool without amessage. Now to know how allah gives a message is told in verse 51 of sura 42 .  
وَمَا كَانَ لِبَشَرٍ أَنْ يُكَلِّمَهُ اللَّهُ إِلا وَحْيًا أَوْ مِنْ وَرَاءِ حِجَابٍ أَوْ يُرْسِلَ رَسُولا فَيُوحِيَ بِإِذْنِهِ مَا يَشَاءُ إِنَّهُ عَلِيٌّ حَكِيمٌ  
51. it is not possible for any human being that Allâh speaks to him except by Wahi , or from behind a veil, or that He sends a Rasool to reveal what He wills Undoubtedly He is Most High, Most Wise .  
 
Now who is Nabi ?  
Nabi is a strong personality and implementer of the Wahi . You may study all those verses and suras where the word Nabi has appeared and you will find him:  
- Giving orders  
- Making decisions  
- Appointing commanders As Head of a state  
 
So Rasool can not be a Rasool without Wahi as he is amessenger of Wahi and Nabi can not be a Nabi without Wahi as he is the implementer of Wahi.  
 
Related to the same question I have answered to Saleem Bhai ,which is as follows ,  
 
Dear Saleem Bhai Assalam-o-alaikum ,,  
Your question needs two words /terminologies to be understood .نبی and النبی  
The root letters of the word نبی is either ن ب و or ن ب ی  
نبی from ن ب و means a person posted at a high position like a Head of a state .  
But نبی from ن ب ی means a person who gives some news , and in Religion it means a person who gets news from the God and gives it to the nation .  
النبی is a proper noun because of additional ال .  
Now the word وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ .This compound of words has appeared only once in sura 33.  
مَا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِنْ رِجَالِكُمْ وَلَكِنْ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمًا  
Now as you can see in the word خا تَم there is a زبر Zabar over the alphabet َت , So the paradigm is فا عَل with a زبر zabar over ع  
 
Whereas in the word خا ِتم there is a Zer زیر under the alphabet ت ,so the paradigm is فاعل with a زیر zer under ع  
The words found under the paradigm فاعل ( fa’il )with a زیر are کاتب katib قاتل qatil قادر qadir حامل hamil etc as you can see the meanings of these words made under this paradigm has inherent meanings of having faculty of a doer performer ,or an operator  
 
The word خاتم with a زبر over ت is not under this paradigm but it under the  
paradigm فاعل with a زبر over ت .The other word made under the paradigm فاعَل with a زبر over the alphabet ع is  
عالم meaning universe is also under the same paradigm with a زبر over ل . So the meaning of خاتَم as the last prophet is through interpretation.  
 
Let me quote Ameen Ahsan Islahi on page 239 of Tadabbur -e- Quran Book 6 .  
دونون اھل لغت کے نزدیک بالکل ھم معنی ھین " خاتم Khatim خاتم Khatam  
Last man of a nation ,Result of a thing ,Last stamp of a letter , all these things are included in its meanings .”Although neither خاتم with زیر nor خاتم with زبر means to stop .  
The categorical word meaning the last is not used which is آخر ,this has made the whole confusion ********

Comments by: moazzam On 18 August 2011
Dear Dawood and Participants !  
Dawood: If you yourself have come to this conclusion that Quranic text cannot be translated exactly in other languages and that you need to use stuff in brackets to get the desired meanings, then why do you blame the orthodox translations? they do the same thing. The only difference that I find is that Orthodox translations get their words in bracket from Hadeethy sources, and you get your words to be used in brackets from already established ideas in your mind that this must mean this and that.  
Moazzam : No doubt, one of the tool to understand the Quranic true message is the familiarization with the underlying structure of the language in which that passage is written, but the difference between Orthodox translators and AASTANA is that they use Ahadith, Aahistory,Bible’s quotation not only in brackets but they select the meanings from lexicon which supportive to their preconceived ideas(mythological, fantasies, rituals) which is far from the core message of Quran. Whereas the fundamental goal of “AASTANA” is to explore and discover the original logic, reason, rationality and wisdom of Quranic constitution that can be intellectually and empirically established in this scientifically advanced world. And to set it free from myth, miracles, fantasies, superstitions, dogmas and rituals.  
 
Dawood: You talk about the context, yet you avoid using it while interpreting 5:48. Is it that the context in 5:48 nullifies your already established preconceived ideas? Which group is worse, the one already putting us to sleep via rituals and stories or the one taking us for a ride through its own land of fantasies?  
Moazzam: Keeping in mind that, the Message in Quran is alive for each era, which possess eternal guidance, in such a way that the stories/events written in Quran are not jut describing past, rather these are generic templates, which is being/been/will be happened in any society at any time.  
Let us analyze the verse 5/48 in its context; I have taken help from the translation of Sahih International  
 
5/41, O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We are peace provider" with their mouths, but in deed they are not, and from among the “YAHOOD [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah – never will you possesses [power to do] for him a thing against Allah (Islamic state). Those are the ones for whom Allah ( His nizam) does not intend to purify their hearts. For them is immediate disgrace, and resultantly they will face bitter consequences of MAKAFAT E AMAL  
 
1) 5/42, [YAHOOD] avid listeners to falsehood, devourers of [what is] unlawful. So if they come to you, judge between them or turn away from them. And if you turn away from them – never will they harm you at all. And if you judge, judge between them with justice. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.  
 
2) 5/43 But how is it that they come to you for judgment while they have the Torah (Law written in Alkitab) in which is the judgment of Allah? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not with peace providers.  
 
3) 5/44, Indeed, We Nzala the Torah (law written in Alkitab), in which is the guidance and Noor. The prophets who submitted [to Allah] judge by it for the Yhood as does the rabbis and scholars by that with which they are entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they are witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the Kafiroon.  
4) After describing laws in this verse 5/45, it is warned that, whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the Zalimoon.  
5) 5/46, And We sent, following in their footsteps, Eisa ibn e maryam, confirming that which is in their hand from the Taurah (laws from Alkitab); and We gave him the Gospel, in which is guidance and Noor andMUSADDIQAN(validator/Alkitab) confirming which is in their hand from Taurah (laws from Alkitab)which is the guidance and instruction for the righteous.  
6) 5/47, and let the People of the Gospel (Ahl e kitab) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.  
7) 5/48, And We have revealed to you, [O truth seeker], ALKITAB in truth, which is MUSADDIQAN(validator) confirming which is in your hand from Alkitab, and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law/ways and a method. Had Allah willed (by his due course of procedure) He would have made you one nation (with no category), but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah (accountable in an Islamic state) is your return all together and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ  
8) 5/49And judge, between them by what Allah Nazala( conceived the message in your mind while pondering into Alkitab). And do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah Nazala (conceived in your mind while pondering into Alkitab) to you. And if they turn away – then know that Allah( through His nizam) only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient.  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 18 August 2011Report Abuse
Waseemameer,  
 
There is alot going on in your last post, so do this. Define the following terms in your words NO LONG RAMBLE. Please do not copy and paste what Dr. Zaman wrote. It is not totally clear to me:  
 
1. Allah: Is Allah The Creator or is it Arabic for--the Islamic State?  
 
2. Nabi: Is this a man who is chosen by Allah, The Creator (if you define Allah as the Creator) to give prophecy and/or a message? Can nabi be a female?  
 
3. Wahy: Is this the Words of Allah, The Creator (if you define Allah as the Creator) which He gives to His nabi? If not, then what is wahy and where does it come from?  
 
Please attend to the following as well:  
 
1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
7. Name one prophet who is alive today.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: Nargis On 18 August 2011Report Abuse
We have discarded the traditional translations long time ago, and we have gone through them in detail, and we are still doing our research on the Quraniq terminologies and their use in different context. If a reader doesn’t want to make an effort to understand, then he is not interested in the book, he is interested in convincing others with what he know about the book.  
 
I will answer your question as I understand them, but this will be my last answer to you in any discussion further. This is not because I’m mad at you or anything, you seem to be a nice guy and you are devoted to your belief. I have respect for your choices, but time is very important and I will use it to learn something new, or teach others who want to learn what I know. I don’t need salvation, we are grownups and we have taken a step against the orthodox translations and views after a careful study. We know what we are doing and what we want.  
 
I request you to read carefully what I’m writing and try to understand it, and reflect over the questions raised, if any. In that way you will probably see the “why “behind our views. Plz keep in mind, this is not t and attempt to convince you, it is more like a summary for readers.  
 
Dr Uncle wrote this today:-  
1.. IS QURAN A BOOK OF WORSHIP OR DOES IT DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS OF SOCIETY ?.  
2..IS QURAN A COPY OF SO CALLED PREVIOUS HOLY BOOKS OR IS IT DIFFERENT .?  
3..DOES QURAN NEED HELP OF BOKHARI AND ALLIED BOOKS OR NOT ?  
IF QURAN  
IS NOT BOOK OF WORSHIP  
IS NOT A COPY OF PREVIOUS SO CALLED HOLY BOOKS  
DOES NOT NEED HELP OF BOKHARI AND ALLIED BOOKS  
 
Then whatever is written in favor of orthodox interpretations is totally incorrect. Any interpretation without worship, without copying the previous religions, and without copying from Bokhari and allied books is acceptable provided it tallies with the meanings of the root letters and Arabic grammar.  
 
Now to decide what is right or wrong, is the freedom given to the reader and his ability to understand. He has the right to utilize his understanding and decide what he thinks is right or wrong based on his own understanding.  
 
We at Aastana who share the same view with Dr Uncle belong to the second part, we don’t think the Quran is a copy of previous books, it doesn’t need help from allied books and it is not a book of worship and rituals. Neither do we think the author of the book have given us a product, saying it is from God, whereas he is unable to defend his own claims or failed to prove anything. In other words, it is NOT enough to just say, Allah said it not me.  

Comments by: Nargis On 18 August 2011Report Abuse
Dr Uncle and brother Moazzam may correct me if I’m wrong,this is how I understand it  
 
1. Allah: Is Allah The Creator or is it Arabic for--the Islamic State?  
 
When used in the Quran, it is a reference to the Islamic state, which is the RABB for its society, when the system is implemented. The creator provides nourishment for his creation, animals and plants etc. but the division is not in balance when it comes to humans. That is why they are ordered to establish human rights and make no difference in division of nourishment and wealth. When they do that through the state described in the Quran, and then they follow the way of nature. In other words, they have to create a state (Deen/ Salaat) in the state (Universe).  
 
Whenever the creator is referred to in the Quran, he is referred to as WE, US, a SELF.  
 
One has to see the context to get the proper meaning and do the Rattal tasreef throughout the Quran for every word to see the sense, the meaning. So mostly when Allah is used, it is used for the Nature, Laws of Nature, Quraniq sate or its sub institutes.  
 
2. Nabi: Is this a man who is chosen by Allah, The Creator (if you define Allah as the Creator) to give prophecy and/or a message? Can nabi be a female?  
 
Nabi with the root letters Nun Be and waw means a person posted at a high position like a Head of a state, whereas Nabi with the root Nun Be Ya means a person who gives news.  
 
If we look in the Quran we can see the Rusool is Rusool because of the risalat, the message/Wahy. When he has this wahy, implementing it he is then the Nabi.  
 
That can be seen in the Quran when we study each and every place where the word Nabi is used and look at the whole context to see what he is doing. Nabi the strong personality and implementer of wahy is  
- Giving orders  
- Making decisions  
- Appointing commanders As Head of a state  
This is a task and it’s carried out by a Rusool when he is equipped for it. When equipped, he can appoint other commanders as head of departments or states if they are qualified. Can a Nabi be a woman? Ability has not gender, but narrow minded people won’t understand what it is.  
There is no aya in the Quran insinuating that a Person was sleeping and suddenly he woke up and he became a nabi, or Rusool. This is abilities developed by the prophet himself, his search for the truth made him see wahy.  
 
3. Wahy: Is this the Words of Allah, The Creator (if you define Allah as the Creator) which He gives to His nabi? If not, then what is wahy and where does it come from?  
 
Wahy is not given in the sense that Allah is talking to human beings. That’s physically impossible, because human beings are part of the creation and the creator cannot be his own creation, so he made us subject to the laws of nature. We can only sense of grasp what’s here and the signals to our understanding is what’s created. That is why wahy is placed here and it is for the Rusool to discover, the one who study the nature carefully and understand the system and how it works. Then he understand how the system as functioning in the nature, must be implemented in the society of human beings.  
 
Wahy is the message which is already here, but it is visible to the one who make an effort to find it and WANT TO KNOW. His acknowledgement is illustrated in Fateha. You may search for these discussions on the forum and then you can go through the ref in the Quran as well.  
 
If you go through our own discussions earlier, you will see that me and moazzam said that Abraham and Moses along with rest of the “names” are not names but attributes or characters of people who will work for the divine message in every era at every time. The Quran is beyond time and space, which means it, is valid in every time and era, so is the characters it has mentioned as the Rusools/Nabi.  
 
So the name of any prophet is the same if he has the given characters. The Quran have not given any date or month in ref to any event or prophet. Its message is based on the human nature (which is not changing, human beings will always laugh,smile, have feelings and have the same needs to develop), and its audiences are those who fit in the different characters the Quran already mentioned.  
 
Why we need messengers when we have the Quran? It’s like asking, why we need mathematicians when we have everlasting math, why do we have doctors when we have books of medicine, why do we have psychiatrists when we have knowledge of psychology…  
 
The message is there to guide people who can understand it and they may guide others. They train them to utilize the tools, like senses, intellect through methods of explanations,and do what’s told and act according to the laws in the Quran.  
 
References for our understanding are all over the forum; if you like you can search for it.  
 
I rest my case, ciao.  

Comments by: waseemameer On 18 August 2011Report Abuse
Dhulqurnain  
 
 
Allah: Is Allah The Creator or is it Arabic for--the Islamic State?  
 
I will agree with sister Nargis. Remember the relationship between the creater and us(humans) are laws of nature. The more we understand the laws of nature, the more we are successful.  
 
 
2. Nabi: Is this a man who is chosen by Allah, The Creator (if you define Allah as the Creator) to give prophecy and/or a message? Can nabi be a female?  
 
Again I will agree with sis Nargis. Your point of view, nabi is the man chosen by Allah, is not new. Laws of nature doesn’t come first, Man act first and than reaction/result occurs. If you are not a good observer of your own life, you will not be able to learn it. Don’t separate your daily activities from Deen e Islam. Even a plane flying on 30,000 ft is as per Deen e Islam, if following all the laws of nature.  
 
3. Wahy: Is this the Words of Allah, The Creator (if you define Allah as the Creator) which He gives to His nabi? If not, then what is wahy and where does it come from?  
 
Again, agreeing with sis nargis. You can see in lexicon as well, conceiving ideas , by observing laws of nature, is wahi as well. Scientist get wahi everyday.  
 
Please attend to the following as well:  
 
1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
Muhammad was/is the khatam nabi as per 33/40. I agreed with Dr. Qamar post, you need to go through it again.  
 
2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
We need Implementer of Wahi today. Quran no doubt is complete, and it has always been. It is not possible for the creator to have incomplete deen for earlier people and complete than for later, because He is not cruel to his people.  
 
3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
As long as you stick yourself with the definition of nabi, being a person talking to Allah you cannot understand it. Nabi could be taken as the ministers these days( not corrupt ministers please)  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
Names are not important, rather the description of system, Deen ul Islam is important. Muhammad is more of an attribute.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
I don’t know any one today, but yes definitely when ever Deel Ul Islam will be implemented, The Nabi will be humiliated by the opposite forces.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
Don’t know about the recent one, but you are definitely humiliating AASTANA without doing fair discussions   
 
7. Name one prophet who is alive today.  
Too many questions mate  

Comments by: moazzam On 19 August 2011
Sister Nargis ! You are 100% right and deserve the Allama Iqball’s tribute “Keh Aasmaan hai Aankh ke till mai bunnd”.  
You really proved the same by delivering the Aastana’s message in a nut shell. Sure you are aastani/Ustani. WELL DONE  
 
 

Comments by: moazzam On 19 August 2011
Dear WaseemAmeer! The best understanding of Quranic terminologies, regarding Prophethood/ Nabi/Rasoo/wahy/ Qatal al ambia/ Khatim annabiyeen/Mohammad. Congratulation

Comments by: Nargis On 19 August 2011Report Abuse
Brother Moazzam, my teachers are among the best- but kaddi ghroor nahi kitta :-D  
 
I have a shair I wrote myself apne hatho se:-  
 
Hazaro deedawar nargis apni chaman Main roti hai(rotti kha ke)  
Bari benoori main hoti hai mushkilaat paida  
 
thank you for kind words :-D  
 
And I must say again, brothe Waseemameers approach is amazing, he pick up everything so quickly, although this is new hot stuff and at a totally different level from what is known to people I enjoy reading your posts.  
 
If We as human beings enjoy the free will, and use it as a tool to develop our understanding and intellect, its absurd to think that Prophets are robots and are chosen without doing anything BEFORE they are prophets. Its an insult to the highest developed attribute humans can achieve. Eesa is called a Zaqee ghulam, which is not abra kadabra and he is born with it, but something he achieved through hard work, search for the truth, observing the message and efforts.  
 

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 19 August 2011Report Abuse
WASEEMAMEER,  
 
DHULQARNAIN: Allah: Is Allah The Creator or is it Arabic for--the Islamic State?  
 
1. WASEEMAMEER: I will agree with sister Nargis. Remember the relationship between the creater and us(humans) are laws of nature. The more we understand the laws of nature, the more we are successful.  
 
NARGIS: When used in the Quran, it is a reference to the Islamic state; So mostly when Allah is used, it is used for the Nature, Laws of Nature, Quraniq sate or its sub institutes.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: I can only glean from the above comments that you and Nargis do not view Allah as separate and distinct entity apart from His creation.  
 
2. DHULQARNAIN: Nabi: Is this a man who is chosen by Allah, The Creator (if you define Allah as the Creator) to give prophecy and/or a message? Can nabi be a female?  
 
WASEEMAMEER: Again I will agree with sis Nargis. Your point of view, nabi is the man chosen by Allah, is not new. Laws of nature doesn’t come first, Man act first and than reaction/result occurs. If you are not a good observer of your own life, you will not be able to learn it. Don’t separate your daily activities from Deen e Islam. Even a plane flying on 30,000 ft is as per Deen e Islam, if following all the laws of nature.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: What does not new have to do with anything? Anyway, seeing that you agree with Nargis the Beautiful, I will address you both here.  
 
NARGIS: Nabi with the root letters Nun Be and waw means a person posted at a high position like a Head of a state, whereas Nabi with the root Nun Be Ya means a person who gives news. That can be seen in the Quran when we study each and every place where the word Nabi is used and look at the whole context to see what he is doing. Nabi the strong personality and implementer of wahy is  
- Giving orders - Making decisions - Appointing commanders As Head of a state.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: So, is a nabi a Head of State or does he appoint an individual to be a Head of State? Which is it? I can agree that a nabi implements wahy, but so does any other non-nabi person who submits to Allah. So what is your point?  
 
NARGIS: If we look in the Quran we can see the Rusool is Rusool because of the risalat, the message/Wahy. When he has this wahy, implementing it he is then the Nabi.  
This she has completely backwards. The nabi becomes Rasool not the Rasool becomes the nabi. None of us today who carry the message to others can become nabi’s.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: Can a Nabi be a woman?  
 
NARGIS: Ability has not gender, but narrow minded people won’t understand what it is.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: But being grammar mavens isn’t nabi a masculine noun? How then could a woman be a nabi? Can you name one woman nabi from the past? Can you name one woman nabi today? That shouldn’t be difficult.  
 
NARGIS: There is no aya in the Quran insinuating that a Person was sleeping and suddenly he woke up and he became a nabi, or Rusool. This is abilities developed by the prophet himself, his search for the truth made him see wahy.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: Who said the nabi were sleeping when wahy came to them? I certainly haven’t. So, a nabi, on a promenade one day, discovered wahy somewhere. Where on earth can wahy be found other than in the books from Allah? Are you now equating wahy as the laws of nature? But isn’t Allah the laws of nature? Is wahy and Allah…the same identical thing?  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 3. Wahy: Is this the Words of Allah, The Creator (if you define Allah as the Creator) which He gives to His nabi? If not, then what is wahy and where does it come from?  
 
WASEEMAMEER: Again, agreeing with sis nargis. You can see in lexicon as well, conceiving ideas , by observing laws of nature, is wahi as well. Scientist get wahi everyday.  
 
NARGIS: There is no aya in the Quran insinuating that a Person was sleeping and suddenly he woke up and he became a nabi, or Rusool. This is abilities developed by the prophet himself, his search for the truth made him see wahy.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: Who said the nabi were sleeping when wahy came to them? I certainly haven’t. So, a nabi, on a promenade one day, discovered wahy somewhere. Where on earth can wahy be found other than in the books from Allah? Are you now equating wahy as the laws of nature? But isn’t Allah the laws of nature? Is wahy and Allah…the same identical thing?  
 
 
DHULQARNAIN: 1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
WASEEMAMEER: Muhammad was/is the khatam nabi as per 33/40. I agreed with Dr. Qamar post, you need to go through it again.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: If you were at a social function and someone asked you to explain 33:40 would you say to that individual…”Read what Dr. Zaman and Nargis wrote”? I’ve already been through that post. I don’t get it. That’s why I asked YOU to explain it. Apparently, you cannot make any sense of it either, otherwise, you would explain it.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
WASEEMAMEER: We need Implementer of Wahi today. Quran no doubt is complete, and it has always been. It is not possible for the creator to have incomplete deen for earlier people and complete than for later, because He is not cruel to his people.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: Why do we need nabi’s to implement wahy? Al-Quran is wahy and Allah said to read/recite it to the people so they can obey Al-Quran and implement the wahy themselves?  
 
17:106 And it is a Quran We have made distinct, so that you may READ/RECITE IT TO THE PEOPLE by slow degrees, and We have revealed it in portions.  
 
84:21 And when the Quran is recited to them they do not make obeisance?  
 
DHULQARNAIN:3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
WASEEMAMEER: As long as you stick yourself with the definition of nabi, being a person talking to Allah you cannot understand it. Nabi could be taken as the ministers these days( not corrupt ministers please).  
 
DHULQARNAIN: Who said nabi’s talk to Allah? Where do you get that from? I never stated such a thing. Allah sends them wahy and that is that. There is no conversations going on. Nabi…COULD BETAKEN AS?! What do you mean “could be taken as”? The phrase “could be taken as” is a guess/conjecture/opinion, meaning, it could be taken as something else just as well, yes? Allah rejects conjecture/opinion/guessing when referring to Him, His Books, His Prophet, His Messenger, or His Deen:  
 
2:78 And some of them are illiterate; they know not the Book but only hearsay, and they do but conjecture.  
 
10:36 And most of them follow naught but conjecture. Surely conjecture will not avail aught against the Truth. Truly Allah is Knower of what they do.  
 
6:116 And if thou obey most of those in the earth, they will lead thee astray from Allah’s way. They follow naught but conjecture, and they only lie.  
 
The fact of the matter Waseemameeer is that you just don’t know what you’re talking about nor do most here.  
 
DHULQARNAIN:4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
WASEEMAMEER: Names are not important, rather the description of system, Deen ul Islam is important. Muhammad is more of an attribute.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: No good, I asked for a name. If you claim, along with Nargis, that prophets existed at the time of Muhammad and exist today, well, if that be truth, then you are obligated to prove that by naming such an individual. You cannot make definitive claims and then say you cannot back it up with proof. Do you think you can walk into court of law and make claims/accusations and then not be able to prove what you’re claiming? What world do you live in?  
 
2:111 …Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful.  
 
28:75 Bring your proof. Then shall they know that the Truth is Allah’s and that which they forged will fail them.  
Where did you get the notion that names are not important? Allah doesn’t agree certainly doesn’t agree with you:  
 
12:40 You do not serve besides Him but names which you have named, you and your fathers; Allah has not sent down any authority for them; judgment is only Allah's; He has commanded that you shall not serve aught but Him; this is the right religion but most people do not know:  
 
53:23 They are naught but names which you have named, you and your fathers; Allah has not sent for them any authority. They follow naught but conjecture and the low desires which (their) souls incline to; and certainly the guidance has come to them from their Lord.  
 
While I’ll agree with you that Muhammad may not be a personal name (conjecture on my part at this time), he was, at one time, a human male, a nabi, and a rasool.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
WASEEMAMEER: I don’t know any one today, but yes definitely when ever Deel Ul Islam will be implemented, The Nabi will be humiliated by the opposite forces.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: No good, I asked for a name. If you claim, along with Nargis, that prophets existed at the time of Muhammad and exist today, well, if that be truth, then you are obligated to prove that by naming such an individual. You cannot make definitive claims and then say you cannot back it up with proof. Do you think you can walk into court of law and make claims/accusations and then not be able to prove what you’re claiming? What world do you live in?  
 
2:111 …Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful.  
 
28:75 Bring your proof. Then shall they know that the Truth is Allah’s and that which they forged will fail them.  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
WASEEMAMEER: Don’t know about the recent one, but you are definitely humiliating AASTANA without doing fair discussions  
 
DHULQARNAIN: No good, I asked for a name. If you claim, along with Nargis, that prophets existed at the time of Muhammad and exist today, well, if that be truth, then you are obligated to prove that by naming such an individual. You cannot make definitive claims and then say you cannot back it up with proof. Do you think you can walk into court of law and make claims/accusations and then not be able to prove what you’re claiming? What world do you live in?  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 7. Name one prophet who is alive today.  
 
WASEEMAMEER: Too many questions mate  
 
DHULQARNAIN: No good, I asked for a name. If you claim, along with Nargis, that prophets existed at the time of Muhammad and exist today, well, if that be truth, then you are obligated to prove that by naming such an individual. You cannot make definitive claims and then say you cannot back it up with proof. Do you think you can walk into court of law and make claims/accusations and then not be able to prove what you’re claiming? What world do you live in?  
 
If I’m asking too many questions, many of which neither you nor the others here can effectively answer, what on earth are you going to say to Allah, Almighty on the Day of Resurrection when He questions you...too many questions mate ??? Internalize the following ayat, perhaps it will help you to look at what you’re doing:  
 
17:36 And follow not that of which thou hast no knowledge. Surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, of all of these it will be asked.  
 
Waseemameer, thank you for having the honesty to utter the words…I don’t know”. My post was not an attack on you or Nargis.  
 
Looking forward to your reply.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: dawood On 19 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Universallanati, SA:  
“Universallanati: Is the word Ahkamaat a reference to the source of Amn, which is needed for the system ? Please read the last part.  
 
Although, I asked Br. Moazzam to answer the question, “dawood: Do you think this AlQuran carries Ahkamaats and nothing else?”, if you want you can answer it too. Your above quotation however does not answer this question. Please try it once more.  
 
“Universallanati: Secondly, you said Moazzam is interpreting the Quran with the preconceived ideas in his mind, how do you know that?”  
 
Although, this relates to Br. Moazzam, you are welcome to read Moazzam’s post dated 18th August in this thread. Moazzam talks about the context, yet he ignores it while translating 5:49. Since you have jumped in, you too can shed some light on such a dichotomy of views? Pay attention to the word Nazala, and the way it is translated by Br. Moazzam.  
 
“Universallanati: Moazzam have explained how he study a verse, he even wrote it here in this thread, did you ignore it on purpose?”  
Nope, I did not ignore anything on purpose.  
 
‘Universallananti: If you really understood what Moazzam said :- Moazzam: I think you didn’t pay attention at the verses 3/81-84 and 2/2-3 focus at terms MUTTAQEEN,AQEEM ASSALATA, YUNFIQOON, YUMINOON, AL GAIB, AKHIRAH POSSESS the message which produces the same results. Read the translation of Dr Qamar for verse 2/4 as under. “  
 
At the moment my only interest is to know if ALquran=Injeel=Taurah or not. You can open up other threads to discuss other terminologies and can join that discussion if it interests me.  
 
“Universlalanati: Then please would you be kind and share your understanding with us, so we know you understood his answer, because that is very much related to your question. Please explain what you understood from Moazzam's reply.”  
 
I have posted a simple translation of verses preceding 5:48 and my understanding of those verses along with my comments and questions. I simply request you to address those questions/comments one by one. There is no point jumping left and right, please.  
 
“Universallanati: You know a lot, so please explain 5:48 through rattal and tasreef, you may ask your imams or mullahs to help you out.”  
 
There are no Mullahs and Imam with me, neither I am consulting anyone since I have disregarded them a long time ago. My complete understanding of 5:48 along with my comments is posted dated August 15, 2011 in this thread. Read it please and set the record straight by either refuting or providing logical answers to my comments. Having said that I may add that the definition of Mullahism by Ghulam Jilani Burq is an apt one for vast majority of mankind including some on this forum.  
 
“Universallanati: Dawood:- Now another group “Ahl-e-Injeel” is introduced in 5:47. Again, if INjeel=Taurah, why call another group “Ahl-e-Injeel?” Why not “Ahl-e-Taurah?” Does it make any sense? It is therefore obvious that Injeel and Taurah are not the same, ditto copies of each other. 5:47 further states that the people of Injeel should judge what Allah has revealed (Anzala). Therefore, Anzala cannot mean anything other than the orders (Hukm) mentioned in the book called Injeel. ***  
 
“ Universallanati: If a University have faculty of law, faculty of medicine, faculty of psychology, would a student of psychology call himself ahle law?People of Injeel have to solve matters through what's revealed,are these orders different than the orders in the Quran?”  
Please read the passage above related to 5:47 again. My questions and comments are obvious, please attend to those questions. secondly, did I say anywhere that “Orders” in Injeel are different than the ones in the Quran?  
Finally, how close your writing and thoughts are to sister Nargis, I wonder!!  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 19 August 2011Report Abuse
I posted the first part as question, but here is the entire post I wrote today.  
 
Dr. Zaman, Moazzam, Nargis, et al,  
 
As I ‘ve read and tried to understand where you people are coming from, more and more, I’ve come to the conclusion that you’re more grounded in Materialism and Religious Humanism than Al-Islam.  
 
MATERIALISM is the simplest (or most simplistic) explanation of reality: the belief that all that exists is the physical; there are no higher realities; no psychic or spiritual truths independent of the physical world. Materialism itself is a meme, a specific, culturally determined way of thinking about reality.  
A slightly longer definition: Philosophical materialism (physicalism) is the metaphysical view that there is only one substance in the universe and that substance is physical, empirical or material. Regarding the "big questions", the sceptical or Materialistic explanation of the universe is that everything is matter and energy, and there is nothing else. Spiritual substance is a delusion. Consciousness is explained simply as an emergent phenomenon of the physical brain. There can therefore be no such things as the "supernatural ", paranormal phenomena, post-mortem existence, or occult phenomena. These are either delusions or reducible to physical forces. Materialists are not necessarily atheists (as it is possible to identify God with the material universe, as in Pantheism). However, Atheism is often a corollary of Materialism, especially in the sense of a denial of a supernatural personal God or any sort of higher creative power. Materialists do not deny the reality of such things as love or justice, beauty or goodness.  
 
http://www.kheper.net/topics/worldviews/materialism.htm  
 
HUMANISM is an approach in study, philosophy, or practice that focuses on human values and concerns. In philosophy and social science, humanism is a perspective which affirms some notion of human nature, and is contrasted with anti-humanism. Secular Humanism is a secular ideology which espouses reason, ethics, and justice, whilst specifically rejecting supernatural and religious dogma as a basis of morality and decision-making. Secular Humanism contrasts with Religious Humanism, which is an integration of humanist ethical philosophy with religious rituals and beliefs that center on human needs, interests, and abilities.  
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism  
 
Discard the part about “rituals”. The rest, however, does apply.  
 
I think this way in the wake of a comment by Nargis regarding Allah, who for me, is a “supernatural” being and the Creator of everything. Nargy wrote:  
 
DHULQARNAIN: Is Allah The Creator or is it Arabic for--the Islamic State?  
 
***NARGIS: Dr Uncle and brother Moazzam may correct me if I’m wrong,this is how I understand it. When used in the Quran, it is a reference to the Islamic state, which is the RABB for its society, when the system is implemented. The creator provides nourishment for his creation, animals and plants etc. but the division is not in balance when it comes to humans. That is why they are ordered to establish human rights and make no difference in division of nourishment and wealth. When they do that through the state described in the Quran, and then they follow the way of nature. In other words, they have to create a state (Deen/ Salaat) in the state (Universe). Whenever the creator is referred to in the Quran, he is referred to as WE, US, a SELF. One has to see the context to get the proper meaning and do the Rattal tasreef throughout the Quran for every word to see the sense, the meaning. So mostly when Allah is used, it is used for the Nature, Laws of Nature, Quraniq sate or its sub institutes.***  
 
Clearly, Nargis, and the other Aastana Blog members, (or is it better stated Aastana Cult), in the main, have materialist and religious humanistic values which are mixed in with the values of Al-Islam. Again, clearly, calling yourselves muslims and having these values, is highly questionable. You people have taken conjecturing to the extreme and, as a result, you are simply gutting yourselves not Al-Quran. From my perspective you have developed into a cult centered around Dr. Zaman/Dr. Uncle. I could be wrong, but this is how it appears to me at this time. If you people continue with your views, eventually, you will end up rank atheists or burned-out cynics. It’s only matter of time. Deen Al-Islam cannot be adulterated with philosophies; it is shirk to do so. Associating Allah with creation (the state or natural laws) is absolute shirk! Shirk, as you may or may not know, or know and reject as “orthodox/traditional”, is the only sin at death which Allah will not forgive.  
 
4:48 Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin.  
 
4:116 Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and He forgives what is besides this to whom He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he indeed strays off into a remote error.  
 
The consequence of shirk is hell/the fire. Following is an ayat which describes one of hell’s trials…a trial which will never end:  
 
4:56 those who disbelieve in Our ayats, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.  
 
Now, I ask you, who in their right mind would even chance being condemned to such a gruesome consequence? Many people in the World Trade Towers 9/1/01 jumped from 80-120 stories rather than be burned alive. Go to Youtube and put in “World Trade Towers jumpers”, if you don’t believe me. Al-Quran is not a philosophy book and it is definitely nothing to fool around/conjecture with; it is serious business! It is imperative that we get this Quran right, folks. Listen, I’m in no competition/contest with you to see who can win an argument that is not what I’m about. I say this to you, because I want for you what I want for myself—Paradise! No soul will have Paradise if they adulterate Deen Al-Islam, it is simply impossible.  
 
Now before you accuse me of bringing fire and brimstone, take into account what Allah says regarding The Fire:  
 
39:16 They shall have coverings of fire above them and coverings beneath them. With that Allah warns His servants to fear; so keep your duty to Me, O My servants.  
 
I hope you people at some point will take a preemptive pause and reassess your assertions before Allah calls you.  
 
Believe me…I take my own advice when it comes to Allah and His Quran!  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 
 
 
 

Comments by: dawood On 19 August 2011Report Abuse
Dr. Moazzam, SA:  
“Moazzam : No doubt, one of the tool to understand the Quranic true message is the familiarization with the underlying structure of the language in which that passage is written, but the difference between Orthodox translators and AASTANA is that they use Ahadith, Aahistory,Bible’s quotation not only in brackets but they select the meanings from lexicon which supportive to their preconceived ideas(mythological, fantasies, rituals) which is far from the core message of Quran. Whereas the fundamental goal of “AASTANA” is to explore and discover the original logic, reason, rationality and wisdom of Quranic constitution that can be intellectually and empirically established in this scientifically advanced world. And to set it free from myth, miracles, fantasies, superstitions, dogmas and rituals.”  
I am in full agreement with the goal of the AASTANA. That is the reason I am here.  
“Moazzam: Keeping in mind that, the Message in Quran is alive for each era, which possess eternal guidance, in such a way that the stories/events written in Quran are not jut describing past, rather these are generic templates, which is being/been/will be happened in any society at any time.”  
Your above statement “ …. are not jut describing past, rather…” in itself is an admission that Quran does talk about the past events. This is refreshing and instructive vis-à-vis there is no past in the Quran.  
The translation that you provided for 5:41-49 does not answer any of the comments and questions in my post dated August 15. My question wa/is: IS Alquran=Injeel=Taurah, word by word, phrase by phrase? Please offer your comments with reference to my post dated August 15.  

Comments by: Universal-Lanati On 20 August 2011Report Abuse
Dawood, you really need to read Moazzams post again. If you read through it and try hard, maybe you will understand what he is saying.  
 
How close your thoughts, way of thinking and way of ignoring is similar to sister Umeaimon, I wonder? ..."Jazakallah khairan"  

Comments by: Waqar On 20 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Dhulqarnain,  
Correct me if I misunderstood it.  
 
1) Muhammad was a common man, when he started to get message then he became prophet and when he had received complete message then he became messenger.  
 
2) Prophets can commit mistakes but messengers never.  
 
3) Muhammad was the last prophet as he had complete message and a perfect deen.  
 
Regards,  
Waqar

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 20 August 2011Report Abuse
Waqar,  
 
***Correct me if I misunderstood it. 1) Muhammad was a common man, when he started to get message then he became prophet and when he had received complete message then he became messenger.***  
 
He became—one of the messenger-prophets:  
 
7:157 Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find mentioned in the Torah and the Gospel. He enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and prohibits for them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were on them. So those who believe in him and honour him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him — these are the successful.  
One could not be a messenger-prophet unless one was chosen by Allah first to be a prophet, the receiver of wahy.  
 
***2) Prophets can commit mistakes but messengers never.***  
 
Correct. Prophet and messenger are capacities:  
 
CAPACITY: The position in which one functions; role.  
 
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/capacity  
 
For example, one of my students (I teach self-defense as an avocation) is lawyer, but he is also an ordained minister. Monday through Saturday he’s lawyer and studies self defense, but on Sunday he’s an assistant pastor in a church and gives sermons. Being a lawyer and an ordained minister are just two capacities in which he operates. Muhammad was a prophet and messenger. While he was reciting Al-Quran/The Message, he was operating in the “capacity of the messenger of Allah”. Being that the Message he recited were the Words of Allah there could be no mistake in them. Now, when the prophet was not reciting Al-Quran/The Message/The Words of Allah he functioned in other capacities i.e. the prophet, a spouse, a father, a military strategis, etc.  
 
***3) Muhammad was the last prophet as he had complete message and a perfect deen.***  
 
Yes, Muhammad (I’m using that as his name for convenient’s sake) had the complete and the completed Message--Al-Quran and the perfected Deen.  
 
5:3…This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favour to you and chosen for you Al-Islam as deen…  
 
John 16:13 However, when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.  
 
You see the part… “but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak”? well, when he spoke what he heard, that was  
 
Muhammad/The Spirit of Truth acting in the capacity of the messenger of Allah. What he spoke was wahy/the huda (guidance of Allah)  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: Nargis On 20 August 2011Report Abuse
My question wa/is: IS Alquran=Injeel=Taurah, word by word, phrase by phrase?  
 
if INjeel=Taurah, why call another group “Ahl-e-Injeel?” Why not “Ahl-e-Taurah?” Does it make any sense?Dawood  
 
It’s easy math, if you want to you can understand it. - The message is in loohe Mahfouz,, it is in the universe, when it is written it is called al Kitab, when it operate as Injeel (glad tidings) it is called Injeel, when it operates as taurah (law) it is called Taurah, when it operate as Furqan (right or wrong) it is called Furqan, when it is read told to the people, it is Quran.  
 
Moses people were under the law of a Firaoun who called himself “Rabb”, he administrated resources as it please him and followed his own law which was forced upon others too. But people did not go against it for several reasons, but we can see from the Quran that Pharaoh’s helpers were well educated and well-articulated. When they presented their case for Moses, they were mesmerized. Everything “seemed” right to the public, the way it was concealed and manipulated.  
 
Moses got the message about Nizaame raboyat and the way it is intended to be according to the laws of nature, natural resources are to the humanity for their development and prosperity. Not for few people.  
 
That is why Mosa is told that he won’t grasp the nizam but may observe” ( الْجَبَلِ) “Firaon, when he reach his position, being the head of a state. That is the only way to comprehend its results, when it is implemented.  
 
So as we can see, Moses came against the Elite, to change the state and implement nizam raboyat, for that he needed laws. He came to rescue bani Israel, oppressed people from the fake nizam of raboyat where pharaoh enjoyed the status of Rabb, nourisher.  
 
When Moses argued against the state in the court, he was presenting the law where equality is being preached, contra the arguments of priests. That’s what Moses argument (Snake) ate their small snakes (lies). In other words, the Laws, Taurah of the al Kitab operated as an Anaconda and swallowed their (Cobras) laws based on lies.  
 
Those people who were influenced by Moses and understood that this law is from the Creator who nourish the universe in the same manner, joined Moses.  
 
that’s why they are “AHLE TAURAH” People who ACCEPPT the Law as particularized in Al Kitab  
 
Moses threw off the state and implemented the Taurah explained in the AlKitab, through the establishment of Salaat, Deene Islam.  
 
Pharaoh’s people needed peace (Islam) through the System of Salaat (Socio economy and equality, nizame raboyat) which is to be developed and progressed (zakaat). This system of peace needs LAWS AGAINST the manmade laws which are making human beings RABB- That’s why our man with the attribute Mosa, is there.
 
 
Eesa came to rescue people who followed their priests and Rabbis, and he had to change the mind set of those people who had man made restrictions on themselves. He gave them the happy news about Allah being Wasee o Rehman. After declaring few things as haram (as mentioned in surah maida and more) but other than that, everything is halaal.  
 
He came to wake up Shake up the people who voluntarily followed rabbi priests without knowing the beauty of the abundances given by the Creator.  
 
Hence he gave them the delighted news, Injeel, which is given to him in Al Kitab.  
 
Those who understood Eesa is right, that he found the beauty of the Creator hidden in the universe, and that their prohibitions and restrictions were only man made and may slow them in any progression to develop to higher intellectual levels, enjoined his hands. Hence they are called AHLE INJEEL.  
 
They rejected the man-made bad old news, and embraced the true progressive happy news !  
 
Eesa did their maseh (plz read its meaning in haqiqate Salaat), knowledgeably cleaning of their intellect.  
 
These people needed the same thing as Moses people, but the difference is that Mosa had to go against the state, where as Eesa went against the powerful Rabbi Priest Mullahs, by making the people aware of their Rabbs happy news in the universe. (This is substantial for progression)  
 
Keep in mind that none of these people are called AHLE MOSES or AHLE EESA, because they rejected the laws and false restrictions and embraced the right laws and progressive restrictions by the Creator. The messengers were the apparatuses only, not the subject to worship.  
 
When these things are investigated and understood properly, it’s time that it is told people who have created different sects and stupidities, they need to know and they need to read that they misunderstood Moses and Eesas Taurah and Injeel, thus it operates as the Quran.  
 
Summary  
 
*When the fake state is thrown and nizam Raboyat is to be implemented, Quran Al Kitab has to operate as Taurah; its laws have to be implemented in the system as they are elaborated in Al Kitab.  
 
*People who don’t understand what’s allowed and what’s prohibit, or people who thinks only the mullah rabbi pries knows best, they themselves are handicapped, then Al Kitab will operate as Injeel for them.  
 
*When people don’t know the difference between rights or wrong f example like in shahr al Ramazan, Quran is operating as Furqan, a criterion between right and wrong  
 
*When everything collectively is presented and investigated, it is Quran.  
 
Al Kitab, its attributes are Rehmaan o Reheem, its name is BasmAllah!!!!!  
 
YES IT DOES MAKE SENSE:-  
 
ONE CREATOR,"> ONE LAW, ONE PATH, ONE SYSTEM, ONE HUMANITY-->  
 
ONE BOOK

Comments by: waseemameer On 20 August 2011Report Abuse
Sister Nargis,  
Woww, that was new to me. but was worth thinking and make lot of sense to me.  
Thanks

Comments by: Nargis-Badshah-Salamat On 20 August 2011Report Abuse
:P other words  
 
S Moses had the Kitab of Abraham; still he is given the Taurah, why?  
 
Is he ahl Kitab Abraham or ahl Taurah?  
 
S Dawood had Taurah, but still he is given the Zaboor...Why?  
 
Is he Ahl Taurah or Ahl Zaboor?  
 
Eesa had Kitab of Abraham, Taurah and Zaboor; still he is given the Injeel, why?  
 
Is he ahl Taurah/ Zaboor/ or Kitab of Abraham?  
 
S Mohammed had the Taurah, Injeel, Furqan, Zaboor and the Quran, all of them, is he ahl Taurah, Injeel or Ahl Quran?  
 
Simple  
 
The one who is specialized in the field Law/ Taurah, is ahl Taurah  
 
The one who is specialized on the field of prohibit/allow, is Ahl Injeel  
 
The one who is specialized in the field of right/wrong, its criterion, is Ahl Furqan  
 
The one who is specialized in the field of articulated presentation of decisions, is Ahl Zaboor  
 
The one who is able to interpret, tafseer the AL KITAB, and tell it to people, is Ahl Quran,  
 
All these grounds are collected in AL Kitab, they are all AHLE KITAB.  
 
Moses liberated oppressed people from mental slavery and led them out from darkness to the light 14:1-5  
It’s a talk of Rabb throughout the story, Pharaoh is a Rabb, Moses introduced the knowledge of Rabb, Pharaoh expressed urge to see Moses Rabb...it’s all about Rabb too Allah, meant it’s about nizame raboyat.  
 
Eesa came to give the blissful information; khush khabri of Allah being wasee o rehman, those abundances given by the creator is to be utilized. He gave the happy news that the rope or chians around their neck will no longer restrict them and after him the one with the attribute of Ahmad will come. The one who will work hard and make efforts will develop this attribute.  
 
Dawood presented well- verbalized and well interconnected proofs along with well thought out conclusions, which reached the heart and mind of the people.  
 
And so on, they all had their expert fields, which are concentrated in the Book  
 
They all came to implement the Deen, Islam AGAINST man made systems.  
 
Man made systems are some how or in any way in favour of one party, whereas Creators Universe is equal to everyone, so is his Deen Islam, nizame raboyat. It is equal to everyone and Thats the ONLY SYSTEM available in the Universe from Allah.From Adam, Noah Abraham's people to Mohammed's people, and today, SAME SYSTEM elaborated in AL KTIAB, Quran is needed. Same Law Taruah, Same Injeel Same Zaboor same Furqaan.  
 
and they all lived happy ever after.  
 
The end

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 20 August 2011Report Abuse
Nargy,  
 
Waseemameer, to his great credit, in regard to naming prophets at the same time as Muhammad and prophets today, responded that he could not name any; that he didn’t know. Given that he does not know, then he should withdraw support for that particular assertion.  
 
17:36 And follow not that of which thou hast no knowledge. Surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, of all of these it will be asked.  
 
53:28 And they have no knowledge of it; they do not follow anything but conjecture, and surely conjecture does not avail against the truth at all.  
 
To proffer any assertion, especially, as it relates to Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, His Prophets, and the Deen Al-Islam, then incontrovertible proof for assertion must be presented, otherwise, what’s being presented is not truth but conjecture.  
 
10:36 And most of them follow naught but conjecture. Surely conjecture will not avail aught against the Truth. Truly Allah is Knower of what they do.  
 
If we cannot prove an assertion, especially, as it relates to Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, His Prophets, and the Deen Al-Islam, then that assertion must be abandoned until it can be proved. This is just the reasonable and logical course of action to take.  
 
28:75 Bring your proof. Then shall they know that the Truth is Allah’s and that which they forged will fail them.  
 
17:36 And follow not that of which thou hast no knowledge. Surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, of all of these it will be asked.  
 
To adamantly follow/accept an assertion as if it is true, especially as it relates to Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, His Prophets, and the Deen Al-Islam, without incontrovertible proof, is to follow blindly.  
 
Not to understand the above ayats results in blind following.  
 
So Nargy, it’s time now for you to step forward and do the honorable thing, as did Waseemameer (can you do less than he?), and:  
 
1. Admit that you cannot name any prophets contemporary with Muhammad or any today.  
 
or  
 
2. Name one so0called prophet and prove it.  
 
or  
 
3. Withdraw the assertion until you can prove it.  
 
Now mind you, I’m not picking on you Sweety or bro. Waseemameer, but this issue cannot be allowed to just continue to hang in the air without being resolved. There must be a resolution to your assertion--either what you said is the truth or it is not the truth; there’s nothing else. What you’ve asserted, though you may not realize it, is a big deal with all kinds of implications.  
 
Please answer the following with an--"I don't know" or "a name": What can be easier than that?  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
Looking forward to your reply.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 
 
 

Comments by: Junaid On 20 August 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Good work sister Nargis :)  
 
Al kitaab is Law, Al Kitaab contains instructions regarding do's and don'ts, Al Kitaab is the criterion of distinguishing between right and wrong, Al Kitaab guides us towards making the right choices and right decisions, Al Kitaab is simple, easily understandable through tafseer. And most importantly, Al Kitaab talks about the system of Rabb (Nizaam e Rubaiyat) which is based on justice, equality and invariable access to natural resources for all alike. The only path which ultimately leads to peace and harmony.  
 
Well done and nicely elaborated.

Comments by: waseemameer On 21 August 2011Report Abuse
Dhulqurnain,  
You said  
((((MATERIALISM is the simplest (or most simplistic) explanation of reality: the belief that all that exists is the physical; there are no higher realities; no psychic or spiritual truths independent of the physical world. Materialism itself is a meme, a specific, culturally determined way of thinking about reality.  
A slightly longer definition: Philosophical materialism (physicalism) is the metaphysical view that there is only one substance in the universe and that substance is physical, empirical or material. Regarding the "big questions", the sceptical or Materialistic explanation of the universe is that everything is matter and energy, and there is nothing else. Spiritual substance is a delusion. Consciousness is explained simply as an emergent phenomenon of the physical brain. There can therefore be no such things as the "supernatural ", paranormal phenomena, post-mortem existence, or occult phenomena. These are either delusions or reducible to physical forces. Materialists are not necessarily atheists (as it is possible to identify God with the material universe, as in Pantheism). However, Atheism is often a corollary of Materialism, especially in the sense of a denial of a supernatural personal God or any sort of higher creative power. Materialists do not deny the reality of such things as love or justice, beauty or goodness.  
 
http://www.kheper.net/topics/worldviews/materialism.htm  
 
HUMANISM is an approach in study, philosophy, or practice that focuses on human values and concerns. In philosophy and social science, humanism is a perspective which affirms some notion of human nature, and is contrasted with anti-humanism. Secular Humanism is a secular ideology which espouses reason, ethics, and justice, whilst specifically rejecting supernatural and religious dogma as a basis of morality and decision-making. Secular Humanism contrasts with Religious Humanism, which is an integration of humanist ethical philosophy with religious rituals and beliefs that center on human needs, interests, and abilities. ))))  
 
and than you said  
((((To proffer any assertion, especially, as it relates to Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, His Prophets, and the Deen Al-Islam, then incontrovertible proof for assertion must be presented, otherwise, what’s being presented is not truth but conjecture. )))  
 
Would you like to give us proof about the supernatural and psychic truth

Comments by: moazzam On 21 August 2011
Dear Brother Dawood! Salam,  
You are realy a truth seeker and very close/near to the lid/cover which need to be turned or discover to approach at TRUTH YOU ASKED FOR, that is verses 5/41-49.  
I request you,brother Dawood; re-read my above post ie traslation/interpretation of verse under question has been provided (request to ignore the writing mistakes).  
It is further advised, to know the details in this regard read the Sister Nargis's reply at the same issue, i 100% agree with her comprehension/ stance that, Taurat,Injeej, Zaboor, Furqan, Quran, Suhuf Ibrahim o muses all are the part of ALKITAB ( fiha kutuban Qayyimah). The specialization in its perticulor dumain relevant to the specific Rasool and his nation has been recognized as a ahl e injeel ahl e taurah, ahl e Zaboor wereas all are called AHL E KITAB. With best wishes  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 21 August 2011Report Abuse
Moazzam,  
 
***It is further advised, to know the details in this regard read the Sister Nargis's reply at the same issue, i 100% agree with her comprehension/ stance that, Taurat,Injeej, Zaboor, Furqan, Quran, Suhuf Ibrahim o muses all are the part of ALKITAB ( fiha kutuban Qayyimah). The specialization in its perticulor dumain relevant to the specific Rasool and his nation has been recognized as a ahl e injeel ahl e taurah, ahl e Zaboor wereas all are called AHL E KITAB. With best wishes***  
 
If I'm understand you correctly, it appears as if you recognizing that—Al-Kitab is comprised of separate kitabs. Am I understanding you correctly?  
 
Yes or No.  
 
Nargis has been arguing that Al-Kitab=Al-Quran, however, you have Al-Quran listed as a “part of” Al-Kitab.  
 
***NARGIS: Al-Quran is the First, the last, THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind***  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: Yellow-cow On 21 August 2011Report Abuse
you play dummb  
 
Yes  
 
No ?  
 
you read throh anything  
 
Yes  
 
No?  
 
You understanding anything?  
 
No  
 
No  
 
I not interesting in knowing any explainasjon in why you play dumb or not understanding anything, you hear me? you understanding? I only want yes or no answer, and no or no for last question.

Comments by: dawood On 21 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Sr. Nargis, SA: I am responding to your posts dated 20th August in this thread.  
 
First, you have weaved a nice story related to Syedna Musa and Eisa, story nevertheless. I don’t have to say anything about the story, except that the story is not a good substitute for hard core analysis that are required if Aastana wants to claim to be a research forum.  
 
Second, none of your story and analysis, if any, refer to the underlying verses 5:41-49. My original comments, concerns, questions, raised in my post dated 15th August , 2011 are not answered, rather you stepped aside of my questions and went on with your own story.  
 
Now, let me point out what I think are some of the errors in your assertions related to the Book of Allah.  
 
“ Nargis: It’s easy math, …., when it operate as Injeel (glad tidings) it is called Injeel, when it operates as taurah (law) it is called Taurah, when it operate as Furqan (right or wrong) it is called Furqan, when it is read told to the people, it is Quran.”  
 
Your above statement is referring to the names (Taurah, Injeel) as per usage (OPERATE AS) of the book. This is incorrect. Please read 5:43, Taurah has HUKM of Allah in it, meaning it is a written document containing HUKM of Allah and is called Taurah. WHICH VERSE SAYS THAT WHEN IT OPERATES AS A LAW IT IS CALLED TAURAH? Further, 5:44 confirms that Taurah is a book according to which prophets and others.. judged between the people. At least one HUKM from Taurah is mentioned in 5:45.  
 
Now, move to 5:46-47. Injeel is a written document containing the Hukm of Allah. People are asked to judge by the HUkm of Allah in the Injeel. In brief, Taurah has the HUKM of Allah and various people judged by it; Injeel has the HUKM of Allah and people judge by it. Please note, both Taurah and Injeel are operating the same way (containing HUKM, people judging accordingly), no difference whatsoever. Thus, these verses highlight the flaws in your argument. Therefore, these names are not according to the usage, rather these names are given to the documents revealed by Allah to Syedna Mosa and Eisa, respectively.  
 
In the light of the above, your following statements could be the product of your mind, aka figment of your imagination. You can name the verses along with your own translation (since orthodox translation are not good for you) to back up your claims.  
 
“Nargis: … that’s why they are “AHLE TAURAH” People who ACCEPPT the Law as particularized in Al Kitab, ….Those who understood Eesa is right, that he found the beauty of the Creator hidden in the universe, and that their prohibitions and restrictions were only man made and may slow them in any progression to develop to higher intellectual levels, enjoined his hands. Hence they are called AHLE INJEEL…  
The one who is specialized in the field Law/ Taurah, is ahl Taurah  
The one who is specialized on the field of prohibit/allow, is Ahl Injeel  
The one who is specialized in the field of right/wrong, its criterion, is Ahl Furqan  
The one who is specialized in the field of articulated presentation of decisions, is Ahl Zaboor  
The one who is able to interpret, tafseer the AL KITAB, and tell it to people, is Ahl Quran,  
All these grounds are collected in AL Kitab, they are all AHLE KITAB.”  
 
By the way, the meanings of the word Taurah in Hebrew language is: “ The meaning of the word is therefore "teaching," "doctrine," or "instruction"; the commonly accepted "law" gives a wrong impression…” see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah.  
 
Now lets look at one more thing you wrote: “Nargis: The message is in loohe Mahfouz,, it is in the universe, when it is written it is called al Kitab,…”  
 
Do you think, whatever is out in the universe is available in the written form in the Book? Do you think, the one who wrote the Book had access to the universe to decipher what is there and then write it down in the form of a book? Do you think, verse 5:43 (just one example) is out there in the universe, Syedna Muhammad had to venture out in the universe to translate it in the form of this verse in the Book? Please back up your claims by the verses in the Quran.  

Comments by: dawood On 21 August 2011Report Abuse
SA, Universallanati:  
 
"Universal lanati: Dawood, you really need to read Moazzams post again. If you read through it and try hard, maybe you will understand what he is saying."  
 
Thank you, dear Br. or Sr. for your kind advice. It sounds familiar in the context of Pakistani teacher-student perspective. Teacher is always right, has explained everything very well, it is the student who is a bone head, not doing his/her homework.  
 
May I request you to please pick up the verses one by one and respond to my questions/comments/concerns there in. It may do us a lot of good.  
 

Comments by: Nargis On 21 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Dawood  
 
except that the story is not a good substitute for hard core analysis that are required if Aastana wants to claim to be a research forum. DAWOOD  
 
This is why its important to read on the forum  
 
Here is the reference for Moses story:-  
 
As far as your second part of the question is concern go through the following carefully.  
 
To know the Quranic message given in the story of Moses, where YAD E BAIZA AND ASAA has been described, let me reproduce some terminologies used in the story. please put the same sense of the terminologies where it is described in the relevent verses,the whole matter will becrystal cleared to you.  
 
1:- NAR in verse 20/10, 28/29,27/7 means the divine message for guidance to Ahle Musa(Musa's nation)also see the verse 2/17--20 to comprehend the sense of this quranic term. (Athough there are other metaphoric uses of the term NAR beside the real meaning of" FIRE" in quran).  
 
2:-:- The ASAA(ilm o hikmah), for which Allah asked Musa( MA TILKA B YAMEENIKA YA MUSA), was bestowed to Musa before prophet hood, see the verse 28/14. 3:-YAMINIKA means your righteous approuch(HIKMAH).  
 
4:-YEDD ,the Yed is used in quran at 120 places in deferent meanings, it does not always means physical hands(most of places it is used metaphorically, as in verses49/1,38/57,48/10,5/64 so on .  
 
The meanings of YEDD,over here, would be taken as the RATIONALLY PERFECT(powerfull) IN DEVINE SYSTEM'S COMPREHENTION ,"same YEDD" has been described for IBRAHEEM,ISHAQ,and,YAQOOB go to the verse 38/45. The words used along with YEDD in the above quoted verses are the" adkhil ,wazmum and usluk yadaka fee jaibika / jinahika" means to stead fast with your YEDD ( the above mentioned qualities).  
 
 
5:- The term" BEZAA "( enlightened))the true sense of this term could be seen in the translation of Dr Qamar for verse 2/82. When ALLAH announced the selection of Musa and bestowed NBUWAT same time Almighty Allah made him realized about these two qualities he had, as mentioned above(MATILKA BEYAMINIKA YA MUSA) ,AND GIVEN THE TASK TO RESCUE THE BANI ISRAIL, read the verses 28/31—43,27/10.Now keep in mind the meanings of the terms discussed above, and read the verses 20/18—66,26/32—45,7/103—160, the sense of story of Firaoon and his magicians will be very clear to understand logically.  
 
Pleas come up at the story of Bani israil and use of THE ASAA in verses 2/60--61 “IZRIB BE ASAA KALHJR “ means,when Musa asked about the devine guidance from Allah,he was toled to present the same ASAA , to the leaders of bani israil,so a very clear message apparently gone to all of them for their future prosperous life.  
 
6:- ASNA ASHARA means the prosperous life, 7:- KULO WASHRABOO means to learn and understand (as per Dr Qamars meaninge in Haqeeqat e soum)  
 
8:- TAAM E WAHID means the only ALKITAB .It is against HIS REHMAH,that the nation would had been ruined,just due to their demands of vegetables as per orthodox translation of verse 2/61,please consolidate the very next verse2/62 and compare the deeds of the people, which will clear their sense of demands. their demonds might be seeking permition to act upon other fals religious matterials" the society might have in parrallel to the ALKITAB,just like SAHA SITTA in this era( howa adna billazee howa khair),the KHAIR means ALKITAB.  
 
I personaly refer you at the following translation keeping in view the sense of above mentioned terminologies ,to comprehend the exact story in Surah Araaf 7 : 112 to 122 ( Pervez translation, www.tolueislam.com )  
(112) send your men to various cities to bring all priests [*9] with expertise.  
 
(113) The priests came and said to the Pharaoh: “What will be our reward if we over-master Moses?”  
 
(114) The Pharaoh replied: “Certainly you will receive a reward and, in addition, you will be raised to the ranks of those nearest to me.”  
(115) They said to Moses: “would you initiate the debate or should we?”  
 
(116) Moses said to them: “you may initiate it.” They presented their case in such a way that people were mesmerized and also struck them with awe by explaining the consequences of opposition to the Pharaoh. And thus they threw a network of great deceit.  
 
(117) We asked Moses not to be fearful but to present his case as forcefully as he could. The result was that the bewitching arguments of the priests were totally demolished.  
 
(118-119) In this way, the truth prevailed over that which was false. The priests were vanquished on the spot and withdrew humiliated.  
 
(120-122) The priests recognized the truth and submitted simultaneously, saying “We believe in Rabb-il-Al’ameen who is the Rabb of Moses anarom.  
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::  
 
MOSES SHOES OR SOME THING ELSE فَاخْلَعْ نَعْلَيْكَ  
 
Go through the following terminologies relevant to the said story before comprehend the verse under question.  
 
نُودِي = conceiving of ideas (to make understand) see the verses19/24,37/75,37/104,7/22,26/10.  
ىطُوً towaa = concealed  
بِالْوَادِ الْمُقَدَّسِ= Arz Almudaqqis see the verse 5/21 = Antonym of بِوَادٍ غَيْرِ ذِي زَرْعٍ verse 14/37  
 
 
نَعْلَيْكَ ۖ= Your place which is in the state of غَيْرِ ذِي زَرْعٍ verse 14/37 = the dwelling place of brutal ,vicious and atrocious like people.  
 
فَاخْلَعْ نَعْلَيْكَ ۖ = It is ordered to leave the نَعْلَيْكَ.  
 
Let us elaborate the verse under question.  
 
When Moses came bake from Mdyen to his Home land(fi ahlehee),it is made him realized that, the time is almost very near to establish the Islamic state(where nizam e raboobiyat would be exercised), which is in fact concealed (not apparent) for the time being.  
 
Then Allah made him understand (conceived wahy in his mind) the plan to make the Bani Israil evacuated from the dwelling place of brutal, vicious and atrocious like people. Allah will definitely arrange for you the الْأَرْضَ الْمُقَدَّسَةَ read with its context the verse 5/21.  
 
Now the completion of this plan( to estsblish the wadi almuqaddis) could be seen in verse 7/137 (how the Islamic state existed in to being, where nizam e raboobiyat has been exercised)  
 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::  
 
Please go through the complete verse, this is obvious from the text that, this was "THE HARD TASK" (zibhan azeem) given to Ismail, to convince the people for establishment of the said Islamic state in the present unfavorable environment غَيْرِ ذِي زَرْعٍ, where the dwellers of the said WADI would be beneficent (warzuqhum minassamarat) with the Islamic welfare state.  
 
NAAL = the hard and barren earth ( dictionary almunjad)  
 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.  
 
 
Root is DAAL,YA, NOON, means social code of conduct. madina means dewelling place where poeple follows the social code of conduct in their usual life (a civilized society)  
Madayan is the plural of Madina as mensioned .in verses 7/111,7/123,26/36,26/53-54.it seems that these are cities has been under firaon domination.  
Moses has also been living in a perticulor civilized society some where far from the approach of Firaon.  
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.  
 
Go through the verses 10/90, 44/23-28, here it is clearly mentioned that, Firaon (Aale Firaon) were chasing the Moses(Bani Israil). After “gharq of Al e Firaon” the Moses and Bani Israil took over the control of the resources and did establish the Islamic State, 17/103-104.  
As far as Quranic term الْيَمِّ(Alyamm) and الْغَرَقُ  
is concerns, it is right that الْيَمِّ according to lisan-ul-arab  
اليَمُّ البحرُ الذي لا يُدْرَكُ قَعْرُه ولا شَطَّاه، ويقال: اليَمُّ لُجَّتُه  
But these has been used in a metaphoric meanings/sense at deferent places of Quran, as following.  
الْيَمِّ(Alyamm = 7/136 ,20/39, 20/97, 28/7.  
تَيَمَّمُواْ = To involve yourself intensively in the matters, to know the sense of “tayammam” read the verses 2/267, 4/43, 5/6  
 
الْغَرَقُ =In verse 17/69 there the state of Gharq has been described, whereas no see/river has been mentioned.  
 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::  
 
Read the following terminologies to comprehend the matter described in verse 7/143.  
 
خَرَّ مُوسَى صَعِقًا = Moses rushed speedily to act upon the system (nizam e raboobiyat) conceived to him.  
 
صَعِقًا = QUICKLT/ SPEEDY/SWIFTLY  
 
لِمِيقَاتِنَا = Our determined period (the culminated or time of maturity of task)  
 
وَكَلَّمَهُ رَبُّهُ = he was awarded with the nizame raboobiyat of Allah  
 
رَبِّ أَرِنِي = Make me comprehend the nizame raboobiyat.  
 
أَنظُرْ إِلَيْكَ = I want to grasp Your System (nizame raboobiyat)  
Jabal = the strong man (in this case firaon)  
 
فَإِنِ اسْتَقَرَّ مَكَانَهُ = when you will stay at his position  
جَعَلَهُ دَكًّا = Made him leveled.  
تَجَلَّى = Made cleared /apparent وَالنَّهَارِ إِذَا تَجَلَّى)  
فَلَمَّا أَفَاقَ = When situation turned into his favor  
 
. وَلَمَّا جَاءَ مُوسَى لِمِيقَاتِنَا وَكَلَّمَهُ رَبُّهُ قَالَ رَبِّ أَرِنِي أَنظُرْ إِلَيْكَ قَالَ لَن تَرَانِي وَلَـكِنِ انظُرْ إِلَى الْجَبَلِ فَإِنِ اسْتَقَرَّ مَكَانَهُ فَسَوْفَ تَرَانِي فَلَمَّا تَجَلَّى رَبُّهُ  
لِلْجَبَلِ جَعَلَهُ دَكًّا وَخَرَّ  
مُ  
وسَى صَعِقًا فَلَمَّا أَفَاقَ قَالَ سُبْحَانَكَ تُبْتُ إِلَيْكَ وَأَنَاْ أَوَّلُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ  
 
Sense of the verse 143  
 
When the struggle of Moses reached in its culmination period, also Allah,awarded him (Alkitab) which emphasize to establish the “nizam e raboobiat”. Moses asked to comprehend the nizame raboobiyat, so as to grasp His said System (nizame raboobiyat) in its implemented form.  
 
Allah replied that, you can’t comprehend, but do observe the”( الْجَبَلِ) “Firaon,when/if you would stay at his position(BEING A HEAD OF THE STATE "JABAL") then you will be able to grasp the said system comprehensively in its implemented form.  
 
When Allah made “the status of Firaon(الْجَبَلِ)” apparent to Moses, that there is no room for feudalism (jabals are leveled downt)in the “Nizam e raboobiat”. Moses rushed ( خَرَّ مُوسَى صَعِقً) to act upon the system(nizam e raboobiyat))  
When situation turned into his favor, and he took over the control of all resources, then he implemented the NIZAM E RABOOBIAT in the Islamic state of Bani Israil.  
 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::  
Remember the Quranic term تِسْعَةَ doesn’t means count/code NINE rather it means the wretchedness / destitution.  
To comprehend the sense of تِسْعَةَ go to the verse 74/30 here the glimpse of hard/dejected life of KUFFARS in youm alhisaab (execution of punishment) has been described.  
Also see the verse 27/48 وَكَانَ فِي الْمَدِينَةِ تِسْعَةُ رَهْطٍ يُفْسِدُونَ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَلَا يُصْلِحُونَ here it is seems in this verse that, there were the group of people who use to create troubles to make the society living destitution are called تِسْعَةُ رَهْطٍ to know their character see the verses 27/48-51.  
 
TO COMPREHEND THE SENSE OF وَلَقَدْ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى تِسْعَ آيَاتٍ بَيِّنَاتٍ you have to read the verses 7/130-135,  
The destitution/ starving وَلَقَدْ أَخَذْنَا آلَ فِرْعَونَ بِالسِّنِينَ وَنَقْصٍ مِّن الثَّمَرَاتِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَذَّكَّرُونَ has been caused due to الطُّوفَانَ وَالْجَرَادَ وَالْقُمَّلَ وَالضَّفَادِعَ وَالدَّمَ ,So these circumstances has been called TISAA AYAAT.  
 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1455  

Comments by: Nargis On 21 August 2011Report Abuse
By the way, the meanings of the word Taurah in Hebrew language is: “ The meaning of the word is therefore "teaching," "doctrine," or "instruction"; the commonly accepted "law" gives a wrong impression…” see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah.  
 
Your above statement is referring to the names (Taurah, Injeel) as per usage (OPERATE AS) of the book. This is incorrect. Please read 5:43, Taurah has HUKM of Allah in it, meaning it is a written document containing HUKM of Allah and is called Taurah. WHICH VERSE SAYS THAT WHEN IT OPERATES AS A LAW IT IS CALLED TAURAH? Further, 5:44 confirms that Taurah is a book according to which prophets and others.. judged between the people. At least one HUKM from Taurah is mentioned in 5:45.  
 
Do you think, whatever is out in the universe is available in the written form in the Book? Do you think, the one who wrote the Book had access to the universe to decipher what is there and then write it down in the form of a book? Do you think, verse 5:43 (just one example) is out there in the universe, Syedna Muhammad had to venture out in the universe to translate it in the form of this verse in the Book? Please back up your claims by the verses in the Quran.  
 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::  
 
Really nice of you, but sorry mac, we are interested in what the word means in ARABIC .  
 
Wonder if Moses spoke Hebrew language when he grew up with Pharaoh :-S  
 
We don't follow Old new testament or any hadith,what their words mean in their language must be interesting in Qatar or Canada for life long students. We follow only the Quran.  
 
:::::::::::::  
 
no, it is NOT a reference to their name, but to their work, their use,  
 
OPERATE DEFINITION  
 
op·er·ate (p-rt)  
v. op·er·at·ed, op·er·at·ing, op·er·ates  
v.intr.  
1. To perform a function; work: The motor operates smoothly.  
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/operate  
 
Whatever the author of the book wrote from the Universe, is In THE BOOK. you don't have to speculate, just read and find out what he found. Its not about what I think, or what you think in the middle east, you can read about 5:43 in the Quran and then you can KNOW.  
 
5/41, O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We are peace provider" with their mouths, but in deed they are not, and from among the “YAHOOD [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah – never will you possesses [power to do] for him a thing against Allah (Islamic state). Those are the ones for whom Allah ( His nizam) does not intend to purify their hearts. For them is immediate disgrace, and resultantly they will face bitter consequences of MAKAFAT E AMAL  
 
1) 5/42, [YAHOOD] avid listeners to falsehood, devourers of [what is] unlawful. So if they come to you, judge between them or turn away from them. And if you turn away from them – never will they harm you at all. And if you judge, judge between them with justice. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.  
 
2) 5/43 But how is it that they come to you for judgment while they have the Torah (Law written in Alkitab) in which is the judgment of Allah? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not with peace providers.  
 
3) 5/44, Indeed, We Nzala the Torah (law written in Alkitab), in which is the guidance and Noor. The prophets who submitted [to Allah] judge by it for the Yhood as does the rabbis and scholars by that with which they are entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they are witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the Kafiroon.  
4) After describing laws in this verse 5/45, it is warned that, whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the Zalimoon.  
5) 5/46, And We sent, following in their footsteps, Eisa ibn e maryam, confirming that which is in their hand from the Taurah (laws from Alkitab); and We gave him the Gospel, in which is guidance and Noor andMUSADDIQAN(validator/Alkitab) confirming which is in their hand from Taurah (laws from Alkitab)which is the guidance and instruction for the righteous.  
6) 5/47, and let the People of the Gospel (Ahl e kitab) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.  
7) 5/48, And We have revealed to you, [O truth seeker], ALKITAB in truth, which is MUSADDIQAN(validator) confirming which is in your hand from Alkitab, and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law/ways and a method. Had Allah willed (by his due course of procedure) He would have made you one nation (with no category), but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah (accountable in an Islamic state) is your return all together and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ  
 
8) 5/49And judge, between them by what Allah Nazala( conceived the message in your mind while pondering into Alkitab). And do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah Nazala (conceived in your mind while pondering into Alkitab) to you. And if they turn away – then know that Allah( through His nizam) only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient.  
 
 

Comments by: Nargis On 21 August 2011Report Abuse
Now please answer these questions  
 
Dear Dawood  
 
How come you think "before this" is similar to "different to this"?  
 
And if 15:1 said Al Kitab is the Quran, then how come Jews and Christians are called ahle Kitab? Are they following the Quran?  
 
What do you say about 15:1?  
 
*What is the difference between The Quran and the Bible / Torah?  
 
What's different in the content?  
 
What is fused in the Quran which wasn’t considered essential in the Bible / Torah by Allah?  
 
What is the formula used to establish Deen before any book was revealed?  
 
What COMMANDS were new in the Quran?  
 
HOW was ORDERS transferred to the first prophets before any of the books had arrived?  
 
What is changed in mankind which is why the same code of life is not necessary?  
 
*********Please answer with references only to the Quran  
 
Oh and I know its confusing for you,  
 
Those who are taught the law, every aspect of it, and when they KNOW it, they accept it,,,,KNOW it,,,and ACCEPT it..what part is it that you don't understand?

Comments by: Nargis On 21 August 2011Report Abuse
5:43 in the Quran and then you can KNOW.  
 
5/41, O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We are peace provider" with their mouths, but in deed they are not, and from among the “YAHOOD [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah – never will you possesses [power to do] for him a thing against Allah (Islamic state). Those are the ones for whom Allah ( His nizam) does not intend to purify their hearts. For them is immediate disgrace, and resultantly they will face bitter consequences of MAKAFAT E AMAL  
 
1) 5/42, [YAHOOD] avid listeners to falsehood, devourers of [what is] unlawful. So if they come to you, judge between them or turn away from them. And if you turn away from them – never will they harm you at all. And if you judge, judge between them with justice. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.  
 
2) 5/43 But how is it that they come to you for judgment while they have the Torah (Law written in Alkitab) in which is the judgment of Allah? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not with peace providers.  
 
3) 5/44, Indeed, We Nzala the Torah (law written in Alkitab), in which is the guidance and Noor. The prophets who submitted [to Allah] judge by it for the Yhood as does the rabbis and scholars by that with which they are entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they are witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the Kafiroon.  
 
4) After describing laws in this verse 5/45, it is warned that, whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the Zalimoon.  
 
5) 5/46, And We sent, following in their footsteps, Eisa ibn e maryam, confirming that which is in their hand from the Taurah (laws from Alkitab); and We gave him the Gospel, in which is guidance and Noor  
 
andMUSADDIQAN(validator/Alkitab) confirming which is in their hand from Taurah (laws from Alkitab)which is the guidance and instruction for the righteous.  
 
6) 5/47, and let the People of the Gospel (Ahl e kitab) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.  
 
7) 5/48, And We have revealed to you, [O truth seeker], ALKITAB in truth, which is MUSADDIQAN(validator) confirming which is in your hand from Alkitab, and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We  
prescribed a law/ways and a method. Had Allah willed (by his due course of procedure) He would have made you one nation (with no category), but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah (accountable in an Islamic state) is your return all together and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ  
 
8) 5/49And judge, between them by what Allah Nazala( conceived the message in your mind while pondering into Alkitab). And do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah Nazala (conceived in your mind while pondering into Alkitab) to you. And if they turn away – then know that Allah( through His nizam) only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient.  
 
_________________________________--  
 
Dear Dawood  
 
How come you think "before this" is similar to "different to this"?  
 
And if 15:1 said Al Kitab is the Quran, then how come Jews and Christians are called ahle Kitab? Are they following the Quran?  
 
What do you say about 15:1?  
 
*What is the difference between The Quran and the Bible / Torah?  
 
What's different in the content?  
 
What is fused in the Quran which wasn’t considered essential in the Bible / Torah by Allah?  
 
What is the formula used to establish Deen before any book was revealed?  
 
What COMMANDS were new in the Quran?  
 
HOW was ORDERS transferred to the first prophets before any of the books had arrived?  
 
What is changed in mankind which is why the same code of life is not necessary?  
 
*********Please answer with references only to the Quran  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 21 August 2011Report Abuse
Brother Dawood  
 
Where did the prophet get Wahy from,  
 
What is Wahy?  
 
did he have the original -Bible and Taurah?  
 
How did he know about Abraham and his successors , Eesa and Mariam, where did he get that information from?  
 
Did he get it from an angel called Gabriel?  
 
How did he get wahy and where did he get it from?  
 
Is AIsak and Ishmael Abrahams sons?  
 
Is Yahya Zakarias son, the one he got in old age?  
 
did his barren wife give birth to a son?  
 
Where did Syedana Mohammed get this info from, and How is it given to him?  
 
What is Loohe Mahfouz?  
 
Can you do the tasreef and Rattal of 5:41--50 ?  
 
Why are all the prophet having different books when they are supposed to preach only one message?  
 
Where are they different?  
 
what is the Quran?  
 
What is Al Kitab?  
 
Who is ahl kitab?  
 
Abraham is called muslim, in what sense?  
 
He were to establish Salaat, where was it elaborated for him?  
 
Prophet shoaib too had to establish Salaat, where did he get the information about it?  
 
Did Moses and Eesa work for Salaat? Was it written about it in Taurah and Injeel?  
 
What about prophet Dawood, what was his task and where was it written?  
 
Please ref to the Quran  
 
Dont say this is a different topic, I don't mind to discuss it here neither should you.

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 22 August 2011Report Abuse
Nargy,  
 
3:21. Verily! those who reject the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh and kill the Prophets without right, and kill those men who order just dealings, ... announce to them a painful torment.  
In this verse the verbs used are not in past tense ,the verbs are  
یکفرون یقتلون These words can either be translated in present tense or future tense . these words can in no way be translated into past tense . So when this verse was revealed to prophet Mohammad there were so many انبیاء and it is a non ending continuous process.  
 
Nargy, you are very adept at writing very long sand involved posts, but you seem incapable of just writing a few words to defend your above assertion. Hold long will you continue to duck this issue?  
 
Btw, 14:4 mentions rasool and not nabi. Just so you know.  
 
Anyway...  
 
1. Admit that you cannot name any prophet or prophets contemporary with Muhammad or any today.  
 
or  
 
2. Name one so-called prophet and prove it.  
 
or  
 
3. Withdraw the assertion until you can prove it.  
 
Now mind you, I’m not picking on you Sweety or bro. Waseemameer, but this issue cannot be allowed to just continue to hang in the air without being resolved. There must be a resolution to your assertion--either what you said is the truth or it is not the truth; there’s nothing else. What you’ve asserted, though you may not realize it, is a big deal with all kinds of implications.  
 
Please answer the following with an--"I don't know" or "a name": What can be easier than that?  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
Looking forward to your reply.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 22 August 2011Report Abuse
Nargy and Moazzam,  
 
Do you think you guys can write either...TRUE OR FALSE to the following? Much appreciated.  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=40&QID=1615  
 
Dhulqarnain-

Comments by: waseemameer On 22 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear sister Nargis,  
 
I think you should stop responding to Dhulqurnain, as he is more looking for personalities rather than message from Al-kitab. He himself cannot prove things he claims such as supernatural,psychic truth etc etc yet he seems to beleive them, and accusing AASTANA of rejecting them. Surely you have done your best, and was informative for those who wants to learn.  
 
Brother Dhulqurnain, Thumb rule for learning. See things from wrong piont of view as well, sometimes you cant find thing/truth because you sitting on it.

Comments by: Waqar On 22 August 2011Report Abuse
Dhulqarnain,  
Thanks for your reply.  
This is what I have learnt so far.  
1) Allah is continuously sending messengers.  
2) Messengers are sent in the language of the people.  
3) Messengers don't make any mistakes.  
4) Prophets can make mistakes.  
5) Quran was revealed in month of Ramadan.  
6) Quran was revealed all at once.  
7) Muhammad was both a prophet and a messenger at the same time.  
 
I have some followup questions.  
 
a) Was Muhammad a prophet after receiving complete Quran?  
 
b) Since Muhammad received the perfect deen therefore messengers before Muhammad e.g. Jesus were delivering imperfect messages. Were they commiting mistakes?  
 
c) Did Muhammad receive message as a prophet or as a messenger?  
 
d) "This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favour to you and chosen for you Al-Islam as deen" is only a small portion of 5:3. Do we need to understand the whole ayat or the "perfected your religion" part is enough?  
 
e) 33:40 starts with "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men". Do we need to understand it or the last portion of this ayat is sufficient to understand the message?  
 
Regards,  
Waqar

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 22 August 2011Report Abuse
Waseemameer,  
 
***Dear sister Nargis, I think you should stop responding to Dhulqurnain, as he is more looking for personalities rather than message from Al-kitab. He himself cannot prove things he claims such as supernatural,psychic truth etc etc yet he seems to beleive them, and accusing AASTANA of rejecting them. Surely you have done your best, and was informative for those who wants to learn. Brother Dhulqurnain, Thumb rule for learning. See things from wrong piont of view as well, sometimes you cant find thing/truth because you sitting on it.***  
 
Anytime someone calls for someone else to be ignored, shunned, banned etc., is because the caller of such action is afraid of something. If you truly knew what you were talking about, that is, you were in possession of the truth about what you argue, you'd have no need to request that I be ignored. Truth fears nothing. You want to ignore me and have the others ignore me, because you've found that I know what I'm talking about., that I'm in possession of the truth about that which I argue. This is why is why you want me ignored.  
 
As far as my claim goes about the supernatural and "psychic", as you put it, I'm confident about that. I just want you to answer TRUE OR FALSE to those two choices, so that there will be no mistaking what YOUR position is. Do you think you can answer with just TRUE or FALSE or I DON"T KNOW? You answered forthrightly to my others question, why not again?  
 
Don't ignore me...just defeat the arguments I present.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: Perwez1 On 22 August 2011Report Abuse
Those who think Allah sent different books containing different messages are trying to tell us that that a message was sent named TAURAT but there were few things missing, so the revised edition was sent with the name of INJEEL but again few things were tested and found incompatible or missing. Finally the third edition was sent with the name QURAN and this was complete in all sense.  
Guys and girls!!!  
Are we talking about divine revelation or are we talking about MIcrosoft releasing beta versions of a software and then updating it with patches and service packs???  
OR  
Are we talking about a book of physics or economics written by some author who made necessary changes after few years and printed a revised edition to include the latest updates???  
COME ON PEOPLE!!!  
 
I can understand that it's not your fault because you both Dawood and Dhulqarnain are two confused people. Dawood has been trying to share his baseless theories right from the beginning and all of his comments were posted in support of some baseless assumptions from the lady Ume Aimon whose thoughts were based on the material taken from orthodox translations, hadith and history. Dawood can also be seen continuously criticizing Moazzam and Nargis, without even reading what they wrote. (All the previous conversations can be checked to confirm my statement). I wonder whether this Dawood is a he or a she called Ume Aimon???  
 
Now lets talk about Dhulqarnain!!!  
It seems as if he was a Christian who converted to the so called Islam, but his plane landed at a wrong airport. He got converted to Islam by the followers of Abdul Mannan Omer who calls himself the khalifa of Maseeh o Mouood Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani.  
Dhulqarnain dude, I am sorry but you look totally obsessed by Abdul Mannan Omer the Khalipha whose ancestor claimed to be the promised Maseeh o mouood. You talk a lot about shirk and all that stuff but you are not even bothered to investigate the real faith of your Khalifa!!!  
If anyone has any doubt, then search for the previous posts from Dhulqarnain or write Abdul Mannan in the search column and see how many times Dhulqarnain propagated this name in such a way as if the words of Abdul Mannan, the Caliph of Maseeh are the final words and they are more authentic than anything else in this world.  
Any sensible person can understand that a man calling himself the khalifa of his ancestor who claimed himself to be promised maseeh, is actually acting as a character (the promised maseeh) which is not mentioned anywhere in Quran, rather it's taken from hadith of Bukhari. How can the words of such person be considered as authentic??  
 
 
Both of you guys Dawood and Dhulqarnain, (Oh sorry I think I am wrong when I used the word "Guy" for Dawood because I think "he" is not he but "she" that is Ume Aimon who got scared of that Modudi guy and ran away from the forum :P), anyways both of you must think again about the fact that the divine message is meant to be perfect and there is no need for revised editions or updates. There is no need for any changes to be made because the message has come from a perfect authority and it stands applicable to all times and eras.  
The message was written on Loh e Manfooz right from the beginning and it has been concieved by various messengers.  
 
Read 3:84  
قُلْ ءَامَنَّا بِٱللَّهِ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَآ أُنزِلَ عَلَىٰٓ إِبْرَٰهِيمَ وَإِسْمَٰعِيلَ وَإِسْحَٰقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَٱلْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَآ أُوتِىَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَٱلنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُۥ مُسْلِمُونَ  
 
Concentrate on the words لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ and see that there is no difference in any of them and that all of them carried the same message from the same source.  
Remember that the source is too perfect to commit any mistakes which needs any amendment or correction.  
 
JAZAAKALLAH  
PERVEZ1

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 22 August 2011Report Abuse
PERWEZ  
 
And blah blah blah blah blah blah LOL! What a hoot you are!  
 
Anyway, I will deal with that foolishness you sent me soon..  
 
But for now, seeing how you are a supporter of Nargy the Beautiful (and she is beautiful, btw) and Moazzam, AND you've got a bigmouth, perhaps you can prove their assertion regarding prophets, because they obviously cannot..  
 
Here is Nargy's quote:  
 
***NARGY: 3:21. Verily! those who reject the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh and kill the Prophets without right, and kill those men who order just dealings, ... announce to them a painful torment. In this verse the verbs used are not in past tense ,the verbs are  
یکفرون یقتلون These words can either be translated in present tense or future tense . these words can in no way be translated into past tense . So when this verse was revealed to prophet Mohammad there were so many انبیاء and it is a non ending continuous process . Another verse no 4 from sura 14***  
 
Oh, just as an aside...imperfect verbs, usually do deal with the past. Just sayin'.  
 
So, son, answer the following with an--"I don't know" or "a name": What can be easier than that?  
 
4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
 
5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
 
6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
 
After those questions here's the other three:  
 
1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
Looking forward to your reply, son.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: Modudi On 22 August 2011Report Abuse
DHULQARNAIN: 4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
MODUDI : Abdul Salaam Mushtaq Billah Al ghareeb (you asked for the name, so here it is now go and check thoroughly before you come back)  
 
DHULQARNAIN : 5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
MODUDI: Mustansar Hussain Tarar (don't ask me anything unless you can pronounce this name properly)  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
MODUDI: Imaduddeen Tayyab Ali qadri (prove me if I am wrong)  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
MODUDI: Astaghfirullah!!!  
Are you nuts? Who said that?  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
MODUDI: Of what need were the prophet when Quran was revealed? People would've understood it by themselves and it could have dropped from the sky directly instead of being given to a human being.  
AND  
Of what need is MASEEH O MOUOOD Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani or the Khalifa Abdul Mannan Qamar today?  
Why you need a Khalifa to follow???  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
MODUDI: Of what need were the prophets who came before Muhammad, given the fact that there was no perfect message available before Quran!!!  
 
And finally :-  
 
DHULQARNAIN: But for now, seeing how you are a supporter of Nargy the Beautiful (and she is beautiful, btw)  
 
MODUDI: These words prove that after all you are a mullah who can dream about nothing but beautiful girls. He is expecting to get 72 beautiful virgin girls even after he dies. In urdu we call people like you as "THARKI".  
THARKI MAULANA :D  
 
Now do some work son and find out the names I have mentioned!!!  
 
NOTE: I have noticed that you are totally avoiding discussion on Abdul Mannan Omer and his Qadiyani school of thought, despite the fact that you have quoted him as the most authentic interpreter of Quranic words several times on this blog. Why are you so reluctant to discuss this matter?  
Why do you think Abdul Mannan Omer cannot be wrong???  
Do you also believe and testify that he is right about his claim as the Khalifa of promised masih?  
I mean the Caliph of the so called Hazrat Maseeh o Mouood Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiayni.

Comments by: PRIEST BOKMEI On 22 August 2011Report Abuse
***MODUDI: NOTE: I have noticed that you are totally avoiding discussion on Abdul Mannan Omer and his Qadiyani school of thought, despite the fact that you have quoted him as the most authentic interpreter of Quranic words several times on this blog. Why are you so reluctant to discuss this matter?***  
 
I never said he was the “most authentic interpreter of Quranic words”. Perhaps you could copy and paste me using those words. Reluctant?! LOL! you must be thinking of yourself and Perwez.  
 
***PEWEZ: Dhulqarnain dude, I am sorry but you look totally obsessed by Abdul Mannan Omer the Khalipha whose ancestor claimed to be the promised Maseeh o mouood. You talk a lot about shirk and all that stuff but you are not even bothered to investigate the real faith of your Khalifa!!! If anyone has any doubt, then search for the previous posts from Dhulqarnain or write Abdul Mannan in the search column and see how many times Dhulqarnain propagated this name in such a way as if the words of Abdul Mannan, the Caliph of Maseeh are the final words and they are more authentic than anything else in this world. ***  
 
Listen, as I’ve stated before, I’m not qadiyani nor am I follower of R. Khalifa or any sheikhs, mullahs, muftis, etc.. I follow Allah and the Messenger. Now, if I was qadiyani or a follower of R. Khalifa I wouldn’t hesitate to tell you that. What? do you think somehow you can punk me, sweety? LOL! Well, you got another think coming then. Listen, what you and Modudi and Yellow Cow NEED to do, is finish your high school studies and spend less time here bothering adults with your annoying and simplistic notions.  
 
***MODUDI: Any sensible person can understand that a man calling himself the khalifa of his ancestor who claimed himself to be promised maseeh, is actually acting as a character (the promised maseeh) which is not mentioned anywhere in Quran, rather it's taken from hadith of Bukhari. How can the words of such person be considered as authentic??***  
 
Do this, while you are in study hall or detention, contemplate the following ayat in regard to your feelings about Omar:  
 
49:6 O you who believe, if an unrighteous/fasiq man brings you news, look carefully into it, lest YOU harm a people in IGNORANCE, then be sorry for what YOU did.  
 
You will notice that Allah doesn’t put the blame on the bringer of news, but on the potential listener of the news. Take what is appropriate from Omar and reject the rest just as you would with any other author—Allah excluded of course.  
 
***MODUDI: Why do you think Abdul Mannan Omer cannot be wrong???***  
 
I never said he couldn’t be wrong, now have I? What?...is he Allah?  
 
***Do you also believe and testify that he is right about his claim as the Khalifa of promised masih?  
I mean the Caliph of the so called Hazrat Maseeh o Mouood Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiayni.***  
 
I don’t testify to anything except—there is no god, but Allah. What do you testify to, junior?  
 
DHULQARNAIN: But for now, seeing how you are a supporter of Nargy the Beautiful (and she is beautiful, btw)  
 
***MODUDI: These words prove that after all you are a mullah who can dream about nothing but beautiful girls. He is expecting to get 72 beautiful virgin girls even after he dies. In urdu we call people like you as "THARKI". THARKI MAULANA :D ***  
 
Nope, wrong as is your custom to be. What they prove is that, I’m just a healthy red-blooded American male, who recognizes a highly intelligent and beautiful woman when he sees one. Now you’re, obviously, into men so I don’t expect you to understand this. LOL! it’s clear what you’re dreaming about and looking forward to—72 gnarly hairy backed beer-bellied construction workers! But, hey, I’m not judging ya. You know what we call people like you on the streets of NY..LOL! So, THARKI to you too, missy. :D  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 4. If you are correct, then NAME one prophet who lived at the same time as Muhammad.  
MODUDI : Abdul Salaam Mushtaq Billah Al ghareeb (you asked for the name, so here it is now go and check thoroughly before you come back)  
 
DHULQARNAIN : 5. Please NAME the prophet(s) who are around today who are subject to be killed.  
MODUDI: Mustansar Hussain Tarar (don't ask me anything unless you can pronounce this name properly)  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 6. Name one prophet who was killed recently.  
MODUDI: Imaduddeen Tayyab Ali qadri (prove me if I am wrong)  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 1. Allah appoints prophets—not other men. Bring me the ayat where Allah says Muhammad was the appointing authority of other prophets.  
 
MODUDI: Astaghfirullah!!!  
Are you nuts? Who said that?  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 2. Of what need are prophets today or forever, given the fact that, Al-Quran is the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
MODUDI: Of what need were the prophet when Quran was revealed? People would've understood it by themselves and it could have dropped from the sky directly instead of being given to a human being.  
AND  
Of what need is MASEEH O MOUOOD Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani or the Khalifa Abdul Mannan Qamar today?  
Why you need a Khalifa to follow???  
 
DHULQARNAIN: 3. Of what need would other prophets have been at the same time as Muhammad, given the fact that, Muhammad was given Al-Quran--the completed/perfect Message/Deen?  
 
MODUDI: Of what need were the prophets who came before Muhammad, given the fact that there was no perfect message available before Quran!!!  
 
Given your above comments, what comes to mind is an old saying that goes like this.  
 
“It is better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt”.  
 
You have, before Allah and man, just removed all doubt about you. LOL!  
Don’t bother me again kid, unless you have something meaningful to contribute about a topic. Out.  
 
Dhulqarain-  

Comments by: dawood On 22 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Sister Nargis, SA: As usual you avoided addressing the underlying questions, comments, and concerns, and went on a tangent with your sermon. I am interested to know the real meanings of all of the stuff that you are talking about. In this thread, I am interested to know answers to my concerns related to verses 5:41-49. I am reposting my comments/questions/concerns below. May I request you to respond to these please, if you know. You can bring relevant stuff in there and then link it to the original question/comment and show me the flaw(s) in my thinking. Or, for a change, you can say, you don’t know at this time. Please note, I am open to amend my thoughts and understanding if you could show flaws in my arguments.  
 
1. 5:41-42 talk about some people from a particular group YAHOOD. These people come to the messenger for some kind of judgement. This group has the TAurah containg the HUKM (orders/commandments) of Allah(5:43). This establishes one group of people Yahood having Taurah.  
 
2. That Taurah is revealed by Allah; it has guidance and noor; that it has been used by prophets, Jews, …, and that they were the protectors of Allah’s Book (5:44). THIS UNMISTAKENLY ESTABLISHES ALLAH’S BOOK is also named TAURAH and that it contains guidance and light. Thus, YAHOOD have Allah’s BOOK called TAURAH.  
 
3. 5:45 gives some specifics as to what was written in the Taurah. People not judging by the revelation of Allah are Zalimoon. Thus, revelation of Allah=The Book of Allah=Taurah. Therefore, the meanings of ANZALA cannot be anything other than the written Taurah, the book of Allah. Thus, it establishes the meanings of Nazool, i.e. the revelations of Allah to a man which are preserved in the written form, not in one’s mind alone.  
 
4. Eisa Ibn-e-Maryam is following the footsteps of the previous prophets that are mentioned in 5:44 and that he confirms from the Taurah (Baina Yeday Minattaurat), meaning he (Eisa) knew what is in Taurah. Taurah was infront of him, in his hands. Then, it is said that we gave Injeel to Eisa (Wa’Ataina Injeel). IF TAURAH=INJEEL, AS YOU AND SOME OTHERS HAVE BEEN ERRONEOUSLY SUGGESTING, THEN WHAT IS THE NEED TO REPEAT THE SAME TAURAH WHICH IS ALREADY WITH EISA AND ON TOP OF IT CALL IT WITH A DIFFERENT NAME, INJEEL? DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT ONE AUTHOR, ONE BOOK, TWO DITTO COPIES, TWO DIFFERENT NAMES?  
 
5. 5:44 further states that this Injeel confirms what he has in his hands of Taurah. To me, the only logical conclusion is that Injeel must contain something more than or different than what is contained in Taurah, in addition to repeating what is in Taurah. THIS VERSE ALSO NEGATES THE IDEA THAT PEOPLE CALLED THESE BOOKS WITH THESE NAMES. NAY, IT WAS THE AUTHOR WHO CALLED THESE BOOKS WITH THESE NAMES. IT IS ALLAH WHO IS SAYING THAT “WE GAVE INJEEL TO EISA.”  
 
6. FURTHERMORE, IS IT LOGICAL TO ASSUME THAT A SENTENCE LIKE THIS (WE GAVE INJEEL TO EISA) WAS ALSO CONTAINED IN TAURAH? It is an absurd assumption and Allah’s book is free of such absurdities. Thus, Taurah is not equal to Injeel word by word. Injeel contains same Ahkamat (HUKM) of Allah which were in Taurah, simultaneously it contains something different than Taurah.  
 
7. Now another group “Ahl-e-Injeel” is introduced in 5:47. AGAIN, IF INJEEL=TAURAH, WHY CALL ANOTHER GROUP “AHL-E-INJEEL?” WHY NOT “AHL-E-TAURAH?” Does it make any sense? It is therefore obvious that Injeel and Taurah are not the same, ditto copies of each other. 5:47 further states that the people of Injeel should judge what Allah has revealed (Anzala). Therefore, Anzala cannot mean anything other than the orders (Hukm) mentioned in the book called Injeel.  
 
8. Further, Taurah has the HUKM of Allah and various people judged by it; Injeel has the HUKM of Allah and people judge by it. Please note, both Taurah and Injeel are operating the same way (containing HUKM, people judging accordingly), no difference whatsoever. Therefore, it is erroneous to write such statements “ Nargis: …. when it operate as Injeel (glad tidings) it is called Injeel, when it operates as taurah (law) it is called Taurah,…”  
 
9. After mentioning the above two groups (the followers of Taurah and Injeel), it is said to the Messenger of Allah that “to you we sent (anzalna) the book in truth that confirms from/of the book in your hands…” Br. Moazzam have erroneously assumed (previously, now he has corrected it in 5:48 and moved the same error to 5:49) that the second reference to the book is for this book, Alquran. Whereas, it is obvious from the context that this reference is to the book of Musa, Injeel. Please see the pattern: Eisa confirming of/from Taurah; INjeel confirming of/ from Taurah; this book, Alquran, confirming from/of Injeel, and by extension to Taurah as well since Injeel also contains Taurah.  
 
10. The concept of three groups is further reinforced by stating in 5:48 that you are not one group and that you have your distinct ways/methods. If this book Alquran is only talking about this book itself then it does not make sense to say that you have different Shara and distinct ways, because the follower of this book have only single way, single shara which is stated in Alquran.  
 
11. The reference of ANZALA in 5:49 is linked to 5:48. The revelation in 5:48 is nothing but the BOOK ( called Alquran, this is my undersatnding).  
 
12. It is therefore obvious to me that (i) this book Alquran is the latest in the series of the books, and each book in each era was called ALKITAB as well, same way as this BOOK is called both ALKITAB and Alquran, (ii) it contains same Ahkamaats that are in Taura and in Injeel, (iii) it is guardian (validator/calibrator) over the previous one, and (iv) it is not ditto copy of Injeel or Taurah. Therefore, it is erroneous to say that Alquran=Injeel=Taurah.  
 
PLEASE REFUTE MY UNDERSTANDING AND ASSERTIONS WITH VERSES FROM ALQURAN.  

Comments by: Nargis On 22 August 2011Report Abuse
IF TAURAH=INJEEL, AS YOU AND SOME OTHERS HAVE BEEN ERRONEOUSLY SUGGESTING, THEN WHAT IS THE NEED TO REPEAT THE SAME TAURAH WHICH IS ALREADY WITH EISA AND ON TOP OF IT CALL IT WITH A DIFFERENT NAME, INJEEL? DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT ONE AUTHOR, ONE BOOK, TWO DITTO COPIES, TWO DIFFERENT NAMES? DAWOOD  
 
I WILL TELL YOU WHYYYYY, BECAUSEE IT IS ONE BOOOOOK CONTAINING GUIDANCE IN DIFFERENT LINE OF WORKS.  
 
IT IS ONE BOOK TO EVERYONE BUT ITS CONTENT IS USED ACCORDING TO THE PREREQUISITES OF THE SOCIETY.  
 
IT IS NOT TWO DIFFERENT BOOKS, ITS SAME BOOK WITH MORE THAN JUST ONE AREAS  
 
IT IS NOT TWO DIFFERENT BOOKS, IT IS ONE BOOK ENCOMPASSING MORE THAN JUST ONE CHARACTERISTIC OF LIFE  
 
IT IS NOT TWO DIFFERENT BOOKS, ITS IS ONE BOOK FUNCTIONING AS OBLIGATORY VITAL BY THE BASICS OF THE SOCIETYYYYYY  
 
As long as you don't read, the matter will remain confusing for you. You will not get away with NOT reading and keep posting the same questions. I won't go anywhere ;) All of your questions are answered, but you don't want to read and ponder. So what, We won't continue before you read and understand, and come with NEW questions.  
 
Here you go (You can ask for my autograph later) and how did you like the ref for Moses story? Did you read through?  
 
 
IS THE TAURAH AND INJEEL DIFFERENT CONTENT OF THE SAME BOOK, OR TWO DIFFERENT BOOKS?  
 
The one who is specialized in the field Law/ Taurah, is ahl Taurah  
 
The one who is specialized on the field of prohibit/allow, is Ahl Injeel  
 
The one who is specialized in the field of right/wrong, its criterion, is Ahl Furqan  
 
The one who is specialized in the field of articulated presentation of decisions, is Ahl Zaboor  
 
The one who is able to interpret, tafseer the AL KITAB, and tell it to people, is Ahl Quran,  
 
All these grounds are collected in AL Kitab, they are all AHLE KITAB.  
 
READ WITH THE JOY OF LEARNING:-  
 
5/41, O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We are peace provider" with their mouths, but in deed they are not, and from among the “YAHOOD [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah – never will you possesses [power to do] for him a thing against Allah (Islamic state). Those are the ones for whom Allah ( His nizam) does not intend to purify their hearts. For them is immediate disgrace, and resultantly they will face bitter consequences of MAKAFAT E AMAL  
 
1) 5/42, [YAHOOD] avid listeners to falsehood, devourers of [what is] unlawful. So if they come to you, judge between them or turn away from them. And if you turn away from them – never will they harm you at all. And if you judge, judge between them with justice. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.  
 
2) 5/43 But how is it that they come to you for judgment while they have the Torah (Law written in Alkitab) in which is the judgment of Allah? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not with peace providers.  
 
3) 5/44, Indeed, We Nzala the Torah (law written in Alkitab), in which is the guidance and Noor. The prophets who submitted [to Allah] judge by it for the Yhood as does the rabbis and scholars by that with which they are entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they are witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the Kafiroon.  
4) After describing laws in this verse 5/45, it is warned that, whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the Zalimoon.  
5) 5/46, And We sent, following in their footsteps, Eisa ibn e maryam, confirming that which is in their hand from the Taurah (laws from Alkitab); and We gave him the Gospel, in which is guidance and Noor andMUSADDIQAN(validator/Alkitab) confirming which is in their hand from Taurah (laws from Alkitab)which is the guidance and instruction for the righteous.  
6) 5/47, and let the People of the Gospel (Ahl e kitab) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.  
7) 5/48, And We have revealed to you, [O truth seeker], ALKITAB in truth, which is MUSADDIQAN(validator) confirming which is in your hand from Alkitab, and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law/ways and a method. Had Allah willed (by his due course of procedure) He would have made you one nation (with no category), but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah (accountable in an Islamic state) is your return all together and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ  
 
8) 5/49And judge, between them by what Allah Nazala( conceived the message in your mind while pondering into Alkitab). And do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah Nazala (conceived in your mind while pondering into Alkitab) to you. And if they turn away – then know that Allah( through His nizam) only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient.  
 
These questions will force you to not be a passive reader and make you think:-  
 
Where did the prophet get Wahy from,  
 
What is Wahy?  
 
did he have the original -Bible and Taurah?  
 
How did he know about Abraham and his successors , Eesa and Mariam, where did he get that information from?  
 
Did he get it from an angel called Gabriel?  
 
How did he get wahy and where did he get it from?  
 
Is AIsak and Ishmael Abrahams sons?  
 
Is Yahya Zakarias son, the one he got in old age?  
 
did his barren wife give birth to a son?  
 
Where did Syedana Mohammed get this info from, and How is it given to him?  
 
What is Loohe Mahfouz?  
 
Can you do the tasreef and Rattal of 5:41--50 ?  
 
Why are all the prophet having different books when they are supposed to preach only one message?  
 
Where are they different?  
 
what is the Quran?  
 
What is Al Kitab?  
 
Who is ahl kitab?  
 
Abraham is called muslim, in what sense?  
 
He were to establish Salaat, where was it elaborated for him?  
 
Prophet shoaib too had to establish Salaat, where did he get the information about it?  
 
Did Moses and Eesa work for Salaat? Was it written about it in Taurah and Injeel?  
 
What about prophet Dawood, what was his task and where was it written?  
 
Please ref to the Quran  
 
Dont say this is a different topic, I don't mind to discuss it here neither should you.  
 
 
And if 15:1 said Al Kitab is the Quran, then how come Jews and Christians are called ahle Kitab? Are they following the Quran?  
 
What do you say about 15:1?  
 
*What is the difference between The Quran and the Bible / Torah?  
 
What's different in the content?  
 
What is fused in the Quran which wasn’t considered essential in the Bible / Torah by Allah?  
 
What is the formula used to establish Deen before any book was revealed?  
 
What COMMANDS were new in the Quran?  
 
HOW was ORDERS transferred to the first prophets before any of the books had arrived?  
 
What is changed in mankind which is why the same code of life is not necessary?  
 
*********Please answer with references only to the Quran  
 
And don't worry, you changing your thoughts is not the requirement, you may believe in whatever you want. If it help you to grow when thinking thinking Allah is sending different books with different content, you should continue believing it.

Comments by: dawood On 23 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Sister Nargis, SA:  
 
" Nargis: I WILL TELL YOU WHYYYYY, BECAUSEE IT IS ONE BOOOOOK CONTAINING GUIDANCE IN DIFFERENT LINE OF WORKS.  
IT IS ONE BOOK TO EVERYONE BUT ITS CONTENT IS USED ACCORDING TO THE PREREQUISITES OF THE SOCIETY.  
IT IS NOT TWO DIFFERENT BOOKS, ITS SAME BOOK WITH MORE THAN JUST ONE AREAS  
IT IS NOT TWO DIFFERENT BOOKS, IT IS ONE BOOK ENCOMPASSING MORE THAN JUST ONE CHARACTERISTIC OF LIFE  
IT IS NOT TWO DIFFERENT BOOKS, ITS IS ONE BOOK FUNCTIONING AS OBLIGATORY VITAL BY THE BASICS OF THE SOCIETYYYYYY."  
 
Thank you for your time and efforts. You have not provided any verse(s) to prove your assertions. Without clear reference to the Quran, it is just conjecture. I rest my case. Have a nice day.

Comments by: Nargis On 24 August 2011Report Abuse
Thank you for your time and efforts. You have not provided any verse(s) to prove your assertions. Without clear reference to the Quran, it is just conjecture. I rest my case. Have a nice day. Dawood  
 

Thank you so much. But your accusation is false, wonder if you want to lie on purpose? You have been around and know we have been discussing this topic many times, and you must have seen the references. First you said the reference about Moses is not given, then you claim that references for Al Kitab being the same in every era , is not given.  
 
1) Alfurqan = Root is FRQ, means difference, the book which differentiate between HAQ from BATIL (right from wrong)  
2) Al Quran= Root is Qara’ means the book which has been read tremendously.  
3) Al Taurat.= Root is “Atarah” means orders of Don’ts in a frightened sense, the book which provides rule of DO and DON’Ts (the jurisprudence), book of law  
4) Al Injeel.= Rout is anjala, means “KUSHADGI’ the book which gives glade tidings  
 
This Alkitab has been/ will be given to every /all Nabi rasool in each era. The message will be revealed at every guidance/truth seeker from this ALKITAB as per their needs and requirements,(called Nazool al kitab in his mind). That is the conceiving of ideas in the truth seeker's mind.  
 
Let us ponder into Alkitab and note the following points, I will try to provide only sense of the verses.  
 
1) Go to the verse 3/2, here it is being declared that, NO any other system will be acceptable other than Allah’s one, which prevail forever.  
 
2) Read the verses 3/3-4, The guidance which is being conceived in your mind while pondering into ALKITAB, must be verified from the ALKITAB which is in your hand. Also the verses having laws (taurat), glade tiding (injeel) and the verses which discriminates RIGHT from WRONG (Alfurqan) these are/ had been the source of guidance to the mankind before this era.  
 
3) Read the verse 3/18-19, here it is made realized that, Allah will accept only the DEEN-E ISLAM in each era, the people devastated this message due to their malicious/ego strutting/ intention.  
 
4) Read the verse 3/48, prophet Eisa was also given the ALKITAB, WISDOM, AL TAURAT, AL INJEEL.  
5) Read the verse 3/64,it is addressed to AHL-E-KITAB (the holder of Alkitab) that, come to the commonalities (KALIMATIN), that we will not obey any other els commandments other than Allah’s.  
 
6) Come to the verse 3/65, this verse has normally been misinterpreted by orthodox translators. In fact this verse should be read in consolidation with verse 3/64, the sense being reflected is that,O! Ahl-e-kitab why you quarrels in the matter of IBRAHEEM, and which is REVEALED IN TAURAT AND IN INJEEL, after the agreement in the terms described above in verse 3/64 (the KALIMATIN SAWA UN BAINA NA WA BAINAKUM).  
 
7) Read the verses 15/41-49 in these verses the status of TAURAT AND INJEELhas been described, that it should be considered as a jurisprudence. Also all the verdicts (decisions of disputes among the people)must be given according to the said jurisprudence.  
 
Especial attention should be paid at verse 5/48, here it is defined that, while making any decisions, you should be careful about the message conceived in your mind after pondering into ALKITAB, which must be validated by ALKITAB WHICH IS IN YOUR HAND. Remember this ALKITAB is a Procter (Muhaiminul alaih) over your conceived ideas in your mind.  
 
8) Read the verses 5/66-68, in these verses, it is very cleared that, the prosperity and overall success of the people, is base on the implementation of divine message written in TAURAT AND INJEEL (the verses of Alkitab).  
 
9) Go to the verse 5/110,here it is said that prophet Eisa was given ALKITAB,HIKMAH,TAURAT AND INJEEL.  
10) Read the verse 9/111,here it is very obvious that, the same message has been given in ALTAURAT, ALINJEEL,ALQURAN (ALKITAB).  
 
Then Quoting Dr uncle  
 
I agree with Moazzam as Quran says in verse 13 of sura 42  
(شَرَعَ لَكُمْ مِنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّى بِهِ نُوحًا وَالَّذِي أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ وَمَا وَصَّيْنَا بِهِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمُوسَى وَعِيسَى أَنْ أَقِيمُوا الدِّينَ وَلا تَتَفَرَّقُوا فِيهِ كَبُرَ عَلَى الْمُشْرِكِينَ مَا تَدْعُوهُمْ إِلَيْهِ )  
 
“ He (Allâh) has ordained for You the same way of life( Deen ) which He ordained for Nûh (Noah), and that which we have inspired In You, and that which we ordained for Ibrahîm (Abraham), Mûsa (Moses?) and 'Iesa (Jesus) saying You should establish way of life (deen )and make no divisions In it (i.e. various sects ) Intolerable for the Mushrikûn ,It is that to which You call them."  
 
So basically the Book has always been the same . It was named or given a name by the prophet or its followers according to the usage of the BOOK or الکتاب .as explained by Moazzam .  
 
Another verse 29 of sura 50  
مَا يُبَدَّلُ الْقَوْلُ لَدَيَّ وَمَا أَنَا بِظَلامٍ لِلْعَبِيدِ (٢٩)  
"The orders never change from my side , because I am not cruel to those who follow my laws .”  
 
How Divine Authority can change his orders every now and then ? If it is so then how can he be علیم or خبیر etc .  
think of water being formed by the combination of two atoms of Hydrogen and one atom of oxygen today .and tomorrow the combination changes .  
 
if laws of nature do not change how can the laws of nature concerning human beings ?  
 
Dr Qamar Zaman  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1277  
 
I know you have been around, so you couldn't miss out these discussions and "references". This is for the readers who can see the references if they want to learn and understand our point of view. Lies won't even benefit the liar.


Comments by: naeem sheikh On 24 August 2011Report Abuse
Thank you Sister Nargis: What an elaboration,(i really over looked it before), Alkitab is same for each era because of its eternal message to man kind.May allah bless Brother Moazzam, and Dr Qamar with more wizdom and you too (a true teacher).  
ALKITAB =quran+ Injeel + Taurah + furqan OR Alkitab = Taurah = Injeel =Furqan =Quran  
Also explain suhaf Ibraheem + Suhaf Musa and Zaboor as well. Thanks a lot.  

Comments by: dawood On 24 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear sister Nargis, SA: Thanks for the effort. I might have missed a couple of the postings that you quoted, remaining I followed almost all of it. I had similar questions then that I have now.  
 
Dear sister, you are asserting the same thing again and again without bothering to address the critique (my comments and observation, line of thought, etc.) on your deductions. If you are so sure of your stance it should be easy to refute them. On the other hand, I could clearly see that you are not using your mind analytically to read my critique or line of thought. You are posting or elaborating on what either Dr. QZ and/or Br. Moazzam has written. Until you take up each and every comment/observation of mine and refute these one by one, these observations stand. There is no point in agitating this further. Yet, I appreciate your efforts in this direction.

Comments by: dawood On 24 August 2011Report Abuse
Br. Modudi, SA:  
 
"DAWOOD: I rest my case  
MODUDI: HAHAHAHA ... gotcha finally."  
 
I don't know what this means. It looks like you got a trophy, so celebrate it.  
 
"Modudi: me Aimon saahiba, I wonder what made you so scared of me that you even changed your sex, along with your ID :P DAWOOD is your son's name isn't it Ume Aimoon? At least your Facebook Profile says so! Why you are spoiling your son's name, using it to post such stupid comments? Why you are making a comedy of his name?"  
 
Please stop this nonsense. This dawood, the writer on this blog has no relationship with sister Umeaimon.  
 
"Modudi: I astonished, why people are still hanging between dogmas and research!!!"  
 
Would you care to explain what the research is? How do you define it? By reading your answers, I am positive either you have no idea what the research is or you are not using that idea at all.  
 
" Modudi: Either you leave all the dogmas aside or go completely with them. Do not confuse yourself and others with this mixture."  
 
Could you please copy/paste from my posting where the dogmas are being talked about?  
 
 
"Modudi: And do not use your son's name to post such ridiculous comments. Show some moral courage to say what you want using your own name!!!"  
 
Please stop this nonsense. This dawood, the writer on this blog has no relationship with sister Umeaimon.  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 24 August 2011Report Abuse

But what about my unanswered questions?  
 
I know you don't read so you don't' get the answers, but you can at least answer my lovely pink questions :(???

 
 
Could you please copy/paste from my posting where the dogmas are being talked about?  
 

Just have to answer this, Dogmas that the Quran is different from Injeel and Taurah, and Allah is giving different kind of books when the purpose of nazala any scripture is to esbalish DEEN.  
 
The dogma of the traditional translations you get your understanding from...and indirectly pushing these ideas, old worn out weak ideas on others who disagree and rejected them long time ago.  
 
The dogma of NOT reading or understanding anything, which is the basic HUKM, LAW of traditional religious thinkers  
 
yeh yeh I know you don't follow them


Comments by: Nargis-Badshah-Salamat On 24 August 2011Report Abuse

Brother Naeem  
 
Elaboration of term “ZABOOR" and attribute "DAWOOD"  
 
DAWOOD = the root is da’da, duwadu, dida’, meaning is fast in running, prompt in response, quick in decision, A man who has ability to DISCLOSE THE MYSTERIES after probing in to the disputed matters.  
 
1) To know the sense of this attributes (Dawood), read the verses38/17-20.  
 
2) Now read the complete story described in verses 38/21-26 where the implementation of attribute “Dawood” and the term ZABOOR has been clearly apparent.  
 
ZABOOR= The root is Zabru, Zibru , meaning is, some thing in written form, wisdom  
 
1) Every Rasool has been given the BAYINA’T, ZUBUR,ALKITAB AL MUNEER SEE THE VERSE 35/25,26/196, 16/43-44, 3/184  
 
2) There has been specialty of Dawood over other Rasools in respect of ZABOOR, because of verse 17/55, see the verse 4/163 as well, to be cleared in the said sense.  
 
Conclusion: A source full person capable of quick/fast and accurate decisions in the light of evidence and arguments will be called Dawood holding ZABOOR in his hand.  
 
QURAN:- A book which is read abundantly.  
Furqan:- A book which differentiate Right from Wrong.  
INJEEL :- The book which gives glad tidings (for prosperity).  
TAURAH :- The book of laws (where DO AND DON’TS are described.  
ALKITAB :- The book beyond time and space having TAURAH,INJEEL,QURAN,ZABOOR,SUHAF,ALWAH,ROOH


Comments by: Modudi On 24 August 2011Report Abuse
DAWOOD: Would you care to explain what the research is?  
 
MODUDI: Research means search for knowledge. And this search for knowledge means that you are trying to figure something you are unaware of. But in your case you are loaded with pre-conceived thoughts which revolves around religious stories taken from history and hadith and you are constantly dragging these thoughts into your comments while you are ignoring clear argments provided by others.  
YOU ARE NOT HERE FOR RESEARCH. YOU MISBEHAVED WITH MANY MEMBERS IN THE PAST USING THE ID UMEAIMON AND THEN YOU STOPPED USING THAT ID AND NOW POSTING ONLY WITH DAWOOD.  
 
DAWOOD: Please stop this nonsense. This dawood, the writer on this blog has no relationship with sister Umeaimon.  
 
MODUDI: I invite every reader to check the past record and all the previous posts by DAWOOD and UMEAIMON. Look at the timings and look at their supportive comments for each other while they are denouncing only three people which are Moazzam, Maniza and Nargis.  
I am sure if Maniza was here, she would have also been the target of Dawood as she was of Umeaimon in the past.  
 
I have already sent the Facebook profile link to few members of this blog and they have already noted that Dawood is the name of Umeaimon's son. Also I have given the link for IP check to these members who have already confirmed that Dawood is posting from Doha - Qatar.  
This link tells us how many users are connecting to aastana from where and when.  
 
Umeaimon lives in Doha - Qatar and Dawood lives there too!!!  
The name of Umeaimon's son is Dawood!!!  
 
Is this a coincidence???  
KYA HASEEN ITTEFAQ HE YEH.  
WAH WAH !!!

Comments by: moazzam On 25 August 2011
Brother Dawood,Mr Modudi!  
Modudi (Inspector investigation) ; let the people in their hide, I D makes no difference, their view points actually are important to know and analyze.  
As for as i know, Sister Umeaimon and Dawood both are here to participate in sincere learning/teaching mode, which must be appreciated here at this blog(Aastana. com)  
I personally welcome both of them and their persistent contribution to Aastana.Deference of opinion has no bar at all.

Comments by: dawood On 25 August 2011Report Abuse
Dear Modudi: Your following post is 101% LIES and nothing but LIES. I condemn your lies in strongest terms and hold you responsible for your lies against me on the final day. One more time, folks, I have no connection or relationship with sister UmeAimon, although I have great regards for her high intellect as I do for some others on this forum.  
 
Moderators, I would request you to take note of the lies being spread around by Mr. Modudi.  
 
" MODUDI: I invite every reader to check the past record and all the previous posts by DAWOOD and UMEAIMON. Look at the timings and look at their supportive comments for each other while they are denouncing only three people which are Moazzam, Maniza and Nargis.  
I am sure if Maniza was here, she would have also been the target of Dawood as she was of Umeaimon in the past.  
I have already sent the Facebook profile link to few members of this blog and they have already noted that Dawood is the name of Umeaimon's son. Also I have given the link for IP check to these members who have already confirmed that Dawood is posting from Doha - Qatar.  
This link tells us how many users are connecting to aastana from where and when.  
Umeaimon lives in Doha - Qatar and Dawood lives there too!!!  
The name of Umeaimon's son is Dawood!!!

Comments by: dawood On 25 August 2011Report Abuse
Br. Moazzam:  
"Moazzam: let the people in their hide,.." these comments are yours indicate that you have bought into the LIES of Mr. MODUDI. HE is spreading LIES upon LIES. He should be condemned for the lies and senior members/moderators must take note of and remedial measures to stop Mr. Modudi from spreading lies on aastana pages. Thanks.

Comments by: dawood On 25 August 2011Report Abuse
Sister Nargis, SA:  
 
"Nargis: But what about my unanswered questions? I know you don't read so you don't' get the answers, but you can at least answer my lovely pink questions :(???"  
 
As I mentioned earlier, these are important questions and I would like to explore those. My present comments/concerns are not addressed by you at all, except in generalities. What chance do I have to get a decent response from you when I voice my understanding about other ters/terminologies?  
 
"Nargis: Just have to answer this, Dogmas that the Quran is different from Injeel and Taurah, and Allah is giving different kind of books when the purpose of nazala any scripture is to esbalish DEEN. "  
 
Dear sister I quoted verses from from the Quran and gave you my understanding based on those verses. You have a chance to refute and expose my dogmas by responding to those comments, else your claim does not stick.  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 26 August 2011Report Abuse
NARGY,  
 
***"Nargis: Just have to answer this, Dogmas that the Quran is different from Injeel and Taurah, and Allah is giving different kind of books when the purpose of nazala in any scripture is to esbalish DEEN. "***  
 
Wow! Now you’re changing your story now! Good!  
 
Your previous position was:  
 
***Al-Quran is the First, the last, THE ONLY REVELATION given to mankind***  
 
Now you’re saying:  
 
***the purpose of nazala IN ANY scripture***  
 
“Any” suggests a number of things and differentiation, hence, Al-Quran (nazala/sent down in 2:185 and given to the individual in 2:4; nazala is not directionally” down”, but directionally “from Allah to” a particular male human being/prophet ) is not exactly the same as prior scriptures nor was it revealed before the other scriptures.  
 
6:106 Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord — there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists.  
 
5:3…This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favour to you and chosen for you Al-Islam as a religion…  
 
2:185 The month of Ramadan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the Criterion…  
 
2:4 And who believe in that which has been revealed to thee and that which was revealed before thee, and of the Hereafter they are sure.  
 
All the scriptures before Al-Quran proclaimed 6:106 as the core Message and, yes, to established the Deen. However, Deen Al-Islam was NOT perfected/completed until the coming of this “particular kitab”, that being, Al-Quran (nazala/sent down in 2:185 and given to the individual in 2:4). Ayat 2:4 TELLS any rational person that something was revealed before Al-Quran. In fact, ayat 2:2 doesn’t say-- “THIS/HADTHA” BOOK, but “THAT/THALIKA” BOOK, which also means this Al-Quran opens by pointing BACK to another book. Ayat 2:4 backs up 2:2.  
 
***NARGIS: It is clearly saying THESE AYAS ARE OF AL KITAB, OF A QURAN THAT MAKES THING CLEAR. Then I advised you to read EVERY aya where the word Al Kitab is used, And I pointed out that you will THEN (after reading all the ayas where the term al Kitab is used) understand that the SAME AL KITAB is given to mankind throughout ages… It is obvious that there is only ONE book, because the Commands never changes, the law never changes, the glad tidings are the same to every human being in every era. Verse 3/48, prophet Eisa was also given the ALKITAB, WISDOM, AL TAURAT, and AL INJEEL. *What is the difference between The Quran and the Bible / Torah? What books were given to Noah and Abraham ?***  
 
Also, you will note that, Allah NAMES His DEEN AL-ISLAM. In no other scripture doe Allah put NAME to His Deen. This, likewise, shows why Al-Quran is NOT EXACTLY the same as the other kitabs nor was it the “first revelation/nazala. No other scripture says it was the completion of Deen nor names the Deen they were in practicing. Certainly they had Islam, but not AL/THE-Islam. The definite article makes all the difference in the world.  
 
Btw, speaking of naming things…  
 
***NARGIS:3:21 In this verse the verbs used are not in past tense ,the verbs are  
یکفرون یقتلون These words can either be translated in present tense or future tense . these words can in no way be translated into past tense . So when this verse was revealed to prophet Mohammad there were so many انبیاء and it is a non ending continuous process . Now keeping in mind the verse 21 of sura 3 ( already discussed above ) , which clearly indicates that so many prophets انبیاء were present in the times of prophet Mohammad . This verse no 40 of sura 33 is declaring that Mohammad was the seal of the prophets , which simply means He was the appointing authority of other prophets.***  
 
3:21 Those who disbelieve in the messages of Allah and would slay the prophets unjustly and slay those among men who enjoin justice, announce to them a painful chastisement.  
 
So, when are you going to provide A NAME for one of the prophets who:  
 
1. Existed at the time of the Last Prophet, or as you like to call him, Muhammad.  
 
2. Is alive today.  
 
3. Was killed recently.  
 
Also, name one prophet Muhammad appointed to…oh...whatever.  
 
***NARGIS: … It is obvious that there is only ONE book, because the Commands never changes, the law never changes***  
 
Here’s some changes in the commands and laws:  
 
4:160 So for the iniquity of the Jews, We made unlawful for them the good things which had been made lawful for them, and for their hindering many (people) from Allah’s way  
 
3:50 And a verifier of that which is before me of the Taurat and that I may make lawful for you part of that which has been unlawful for you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me…  
 
Looking forward to your reply.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  
 

Comments by: Perwez1 On 26 August 2011Report Abuse
DHULQARNAIN YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED MY POST MATE !!!  
 
I provided the answer to your question but it seems as if you overlooked. Let me post it again :-  
 
 
DHULQARNAIN: HOW COULD MUHAMMAD HAVE ASKED THE PRIOR MESSENGERS ANYTHING...THEY WERE ALREADY DEAD?  
 
PERWEZ: The prophets were living in GARDENS weren't they???  
And Muhammad met those prophets on his trip to heaven. Haven't you heard that thing ???  
 
OK here we go to heaven again.  
You are yet to prove me wrong mate.  
I have pointed out few contradictions in Quran and you have not proven them wrong and neither you are accepting that the translations you have been quoting throughout the blog are doubtful.  
 
Here they are :-  
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1616#COM8473  
 
Alright lets do it this way.  
 
Answer YES or NO.  
 
Do you think the translations from Y. ALi, Pickthall and others which you have posted in the past are totally correct?  
YES or NO?  
 
If these translations are correct, then you should face no problem in proving the contradictions wrong !  
TRUE or FALSE?  
 
If these translations are doubtful then all your previous assertions become doubtful too !!!  
TRUE or FALSE?  
 
If you are not proving those contradictions as incorrect, and you are also not accepting the translations as doubtful, then does this means you are running away?  
YES or NO?

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 26 August 2011Report Abuse
Perwez,  
 
I'm not interested in YOUR topic at this time.  
 
When I do get interested you will be the second to know (I'll be the first).  
 
If you want my attention then answer the questions I posed to Waseemameer and Yellow Cow.  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=40&QID=1634  
 
Thanks.  
 
Dhulqarnain-

Comments by: Perwez1 On 26 August 2011Report Abuse
DHULQARNAIN:  
 
YOU ASKED A QUESTION AND I GAVE YOU THE ANSWER WITH REFERENCES. I POINTED OUT THE CONTRADICTIONS AND NOW YOU ARE SAYING THAT YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THIS TOPIC???  
DUDE YOU ARE CLEARLY RUNNING AWAY BECAUSE YOU ARE CLUELESS AND YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS !!!  
 
What does this mean?  
 
You shared a verse which says there are no contradictions in Quran, and I showed you clear contradictions.  
 
OK answer YES or NO.  
 
Do you think I have created these contradictions on my own and they are no taken from the translations of Y.ALI, PICTHALL ET AL?  
YES or NO  
 
Haven't you quoted the translations from these guys throughout the blog?  
YES or NO  
 
Do you think the translations from Y. Ali, Pickthall et al are correct?  
YES or NO  
 
If their translations are doubtful then do you admit that whatever you posted in the past was doubtful too?  
YES or NO  
 
You said you are not interested in MY topic, which is actually a topic you yourself started. Does this mean you are running away?  
YES or NO  
 
I SHOWED YOU THE CONTRADICTIONS YOU SAID WERE NOT THERE.  
Here they are :-  
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1616#COM8473  
NOW PROVE ME WRONG WILL YA???  
 
 

Comments by: PRIEST BOKMEI On 26 August 2011Report Abuse
Perwez,  
 
I asked if there were contradictions and doubt in Al-Quran. Nargy, answered correctly and i fully agree with her...there are none. I didn't ask if there contradictions and doubt in the translations nor am I concerned with them at this time. Orient yourself to the thread topic/question, then we can talk. Thanks.  
 
Dhulqarnain-

Comments by: Perwez1 On 26 August 2011Report Abuse
DHULQARNAIN: I didn't ask if there contradictions and doubt in the translations nor am I concerned with them at this time.  
PERWEZ: WRONG !!!  
You yourself admitted that you don't understand Arabic and you you don't understand Urdu. You are 100% relying on the translations by Y.Ali, Pickthall and M. Ali et al. and you have quoted the translation of these guys throughout the blog. Why you are running away from reality???  
Anyone who read your posts will know that you depend on the translations and Nargis study Quran with the help of rattal and tasreef. I have pointed out the contradictions in the translations of the same guys you have quoted !!!  
Why you are not accepting that you are fooling yourself and other people on this blog. From the first day you are writing all your crap and not reading what others write. Whenever you cannot find the answer you start using lame excuses. What is this ???  
 
Ok I am asking you the same question again :-  
 
Do you think I have created these contradictions on my own and they are no taken from the translations of Y.ALI, PICTHALL ET AL?  
YES or NO  
 
Haven't you quoted the translations from these guys throughout the blog?  
YES or NO  
 
Do you think the translations from Y. Ali, Pickthall et al are correct?  
YES or NO  
 
If their translations are doubtful then do you admit that whatever you posted in the past was doubtful too?  
YES or NO  
 
You said you are not interested in MY topic, which is actually a topic you yourself started. Does this mean you are running away?  
YES or NO  
 
I SHOWED YOU THE CONTRADICTIONS YOU SAID WERE NOT THERE.  
Here they are :-  
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1616#COM8473  
NOW PROVE ME WRONG WILL YA???  
 

Comments by: Nargis On 26 August 2011Report Abuse

Dhulqarnain  
 
Please answer Parwez, because I said there is no contradictions in the ARABIC Quran. I can say that because we are STUDYING it in is language.  
 
You on the other hand study the traditional translation and post it over and over again. So you don't KNOW what the Quran say, everything you post is based on conjecture.  
 
It has gone that far that you think you are Allah, and denied to produce proofs for the "name" in 43:45- neither have you proven through the Quran who the "kaaf" is in 43:45, nor are you answering Parwez for pointing out the contradictions in the translations you follow, and you haven't answered Lanati about the achievement of 106 or the goal of paradise...  
 
A blind follower is here to show the way? Which he himself can't see?  
 
So it means you are here to force your opinions and views based on worn out old traditional translations, and you don't even know the Quran on its own language.  
 
I wonder, do you really think you can achieve something by doing that?  
 
People have different goals when they join a debate, those who have loads of time want to kill time by arguing.  
 
But what do you achieve by coming here with traditional translations, and you cant even defend them, you run away whenever your asked about the, Do you think Allah, who you are trying to be, like that kind of soldiers?  
 
I bet you lie to yourself and say you tell the truth that's why people ignore your posts?  
 
Now either you act like a man, a real soldier of Allah, an answer questions and explain ayah's that you use, grammatically , or you should stop wasting your time-  
 
Start with Parwez post, and then explain each and every aya you posted above, grammatically. 2:185 and the month of ramadaan, explain from the Quran and give us the month list from the Quran.


Comments by: moazzam On 26 August 2011
Brother Dhulqarnain! If you really want to understand the answer of your question "IS AL-QURAN THE LAST/FINAL REVELATION FROM ALLAH?" by the Aastana members, then you have to know the sense of the relevant terminologies indicated by Naeem Sheikh as following.If not, then you all are just wasting your energy with no yeild/ out come, better to keep on stucking with your orthodox ascendants.  
It is up to you whether agree or reject them all togather, i mean you have to settled down the bone of contention first,because the substancial cause of disagreement is the ORTHODOX TRANSLATION(presented by you) AND THE LATEST QURANIC TRANSLATION based on the said terminologies (presented by aastana members). With best wishes  
 
Naeem Sheikh ! Please discuss the following terminologies prior to involve further at this issue, if sincere to learn by Aastana blog..  
1) NABI, RASOOL, IMAM  
2) NUZOOL.  
3) ALKITAB  
4) MOHAMMAD.  
5) QURAN.  
6) TAURAH  
7) INJEEL  
8) ALYOUM  
9) AKMALTU.  
10) DEEN.  
11) QATAL AL AMBIYA.  
12) RAMADHAN  
13) SHAHR  
Mr Dhulqarnain! I’m not interested, at this time anyway, to deviate from the thread topic to discuss your conjectural “terminologies”. In the future, however, I will. Whenever you people cannot defend your positions you immediately attempt to deviate to some other topic

»«
OTHER QUESTIONS ON
BELIEFS
Thank you very much for your hardworking on QURAN.... Sir kindly let me know about NAMAZ-E-JANAZA is this proved from Quran or not? if not so what should we do when we die.. plz tell me in detail. Question by: Adnan Khan On 16/01/2010
 
Dear Dr. Qamar Zaman, Please explain the meaning of Islam, Muslim and Momin according to quran and your research. Thanks Question by: Naeem Subhani On 23/01/2010
 
how can we define that quran is the book of allah Question by: laiq ahmed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 01/03/2010
 
what is the meaning of Islam n Muslim? Question by: Hafiz Abdullah From PAKISTAN (RAWALPINDI) On 03/03/2010
 
Dear Mr. Aurangzaib Bhai: what is the concept of "PAAKI & NA-PAAKI" in our "DEEN" ? Kindly explain. and what is your SHORTEST/BRIEFED reply when someone taunts/asks you regarding performing NAMAZ, HAJ, keeping ROZA and giving ZAKAT? Question by: Adnan Khan On 15/03/2010
 
Dear Aurangzaib. Please explain about the 99 Names of Allah. What is the reality and what Quran says. furthermore pople also claim to prove Rasool S.A.W. names (quantity i don't exactly remember) from Quran. Question by: Adnan Yousuf Zai On 17/03/2010
 
Dear Mr. Aurangzaib: Please explain about the 99 Names of Allah, do such names exist in Quran? Question by: Adnan Khan On 17/03/2010
 
Asslam-o-Alikum.. Mujhe Pata hai mera sawal us level mien buhat chota hai jis level per app research kar rahe hain magar please 4 Cheezen in detail batain 1) Nazr-o-Niaz 2) Dargah 3) Huzoor (S.W.T.) Bashar Ya Noor 4) Huzoor (S.W.T.) ka Elm-e-Gaib Question by: Umair_Hamidani From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 26/03/2010
 
Respected dr. Qamar zaman kindly give a detailed concept about the life ,if any, after death with Quanic references especially, and had we spent a life before this present life. Question by: dr shahid From PAKISTAN On 26/03/2010
 
Dear Dr. Qamar Zaman sb. please define the life after death from quran, regarding punishment, reward. Question by: Dr. Samreen Mohsin From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 27/03/2010
 
Question is open to the forum Does Islam shun or celebrate life?? Question by: MohYam On 31/03/2010
 
Dear aurangzaib sahib regards,the almost entire dean has been misinterprated and being followed by mass (so called muslims).In the light of Dr Qamars Quraanic research ,the most of europe seems nearly muslim states ware as muslims otherwise ,is it? Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 09/04/2010
 
sir, According to Quran, i heard that God is beyond man's thinkings and could not be limitized or shaped and also not imaginated(equel to nothing).If someone accepts existance of God then he is wrong. Question by: mac.cruise On 17/04/2010
 
dear dr qamar zaman,i want to ask you that at the time of imams how could such a large number of muslims be decived by tellin that the quranic word salat means the ritulistic namaz.sir i am so curious to know plz answer my question Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 30/04/2010
 
dear dr qamar zaman i wolul like to ask you whether you have written other books besides the bokks given at your site.if yes plz tell me the names of a few more books.may God bless you.Ameen Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 03/05/2010
 
dear dr qamar zaman my question is only for you i would like to ask you about GHUSAL after ejaculation in islam.is it necessary?what quran says about this? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 04/05/2010
 
dear mr qamar zaman or aurangzeb i have heard from mullahs that a non-muslim i.e a hindu or christian or any ,will never ever enter the jannah i.e the heaven no matter how much beneficial for humanityh he is.what quran says? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 10/05/2010
 
dear dr qamar zaman or aurangzeb i have read in quran that muslims are not allowed to have a friendship with christian or jews i do not know the verse.plz elaborate can we have frienship with chritians or jews or non muslims? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 10/05/2010
 
my brother aurangzeb is eating parsad from hindus halal in islam. Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 10/05/2010
 
dear aurangzeb you said parsad is not haram.but what about the verse of the quran where allah says that blood and pig and any thing upon which the nane of sth other than allah is taken is haram.so parsad should be haram.isn't it?plz elaborate Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 11/05/2010
 
brother auranzaib or qamar zaman is shaking hand with a non mahram halal Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 12/05/2010
 
a person told me that salat is the same ritual namaz and quoted versr from the quran which tell three times namaz i will give you reference only cause the lack of space (11:114) and(17:78).plz expalin it is very confusing brother aurangzaib. Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 13/05/2010
 
dear dr qamar what is "TAWAAF".tell me about the hadiths which says:The "TAWAAF" will be continue untill the qayamat.is this a forged Hadith?plz elaborate Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 14/05/2010
 
dear aurangzaib, plz let me know about "ISTIKHARA".is it islamic?i have seen many people offering istikhara prayer Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 17/05/2010
 
dear aurangzaib i have heard that the "prophet Ibraham" was thrown into fire by "Namrood".and he was protected by Allah in the fire.is this mentioned in quran.isnt it a miracle and i think Allah does not do miracles.plz elaborat.thanks Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 18/05/2010
 
My understanding so far that Quran is free from myth, miracles, fantasies, superstitions, dogmas.etc.. So what is the Concept of Jannat & Dozakh… Question by: Danish roomi On 18/05/2010
 
Salam.. mojuda QURAN kya wohi QURAN hai jo AP S.A.W.W ne murattab krwaya???agr han to phir wo asal quran dunya me kahin mojud hai.?? or agar nahin to phir hum is QURAN pr kese etbar kren jese ahadis sahih nahi to wese QURAN b SAHIH Nahi. Question by: UMAR HUSSAIN On 18/05/2010
 
dear aurangzaib a person argud with me that we should not use our mind in islam because we say that allah is merciful but look in the jungle one animal kills another ruthlessly leavind its offsprings alone.is it not cruelity.plz give me answer Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 20/05/2010
 
dear brother aurangzaib, i acting for women in dramas and films or coming on televiion in news ,shows etc allowed in ilam.plz explain in the light of quran Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 20/05/2010
 
dear brother aurangzaib, pal let me know whether asking the parents of bride for "Jahaz" i .e dowry allowed in islam.give a satisfying answer in the light of the glorious quran Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 25/05/2010
 
Jnab Aurangzaib sb / Dr.Qamar sb. Is it zina with wife to go to her for enjoyment and not for child. Question by: alam1162@gmail.com From INDIA (DELHI) On 27/05/2010
 
dear brother aurangzaib i have heard from mullas that on the day of judgement the prophet wii do "SHAFA'At" for us.and qoute a verse from the ayatul kursi e.g "ila biznihi"is it right will prophet do SHAFA"AT For us.i think it is wrong plz explain Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 28/05/2010
 
dear brother aurangzaib some people have misconception that God is not good becuse if he knew that a person was going to the hell then why he created him.plz give a satiusfactory answer from your islamic mind Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 29/05/2010
 
what Quran says about "DAJJAL"?... Question by: Dr. Samreen Mohsin From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 01/06/2010
 
dear aurangzaib or dr qamar tell me how to argue with a person who says that growing beard is a fundamental part of slam and your islam is incopmplete without it.plz give me some arguments sothat i can answer such blind people.God bless you Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 02/06/2010
 
dear brother aurangzaib or qamar zaman the muslims preach there religion throughtout the world and so do the muskims of saudi arabia.but no non-muslim is allowed to preach his religion in saudi arabia.is it not unfair? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 03/06/2010
 
Dr Sahab when we are looking for everything in Quran than how can we say that CARNIVOROUS ANIMALS like cat,lion,dog and other animals like horse etc are Haram in Islam as we dont find any verse which says that these are haram? Question by: Nadeem_Akhtar From PAKISTAN On 03/06/2010
 
Dr sahab u say tht sex 4 enjoyment is permited whereas G.A Pervez says under 4:24(al.quran) while explaning words MOHSENEN AND GHAIR MUSAFEHEN that it is not permited and it can be done only when baby is needed.plzz explain Question by: Nadeem_Akhtar From PAKISTAN On 03/06/2010
 
sir plz tell me why islam allows a muslim man to marry a ehle kitab woman and does not permit a muslim woman to marry a ehle kitab. why there is such boundation over a muslim lady?thnx Question by: ali.haideer From PAKISTAN (LARKANA) On 04/06/2010
 
brother auragzaib is not the worship of idols shirk.when you argue with people that hindus too will enter the jannah they quote a verse from the quran that allah never forgives shirk as idol worship is a shirk so hindus can never enter the jannah Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 05/06/2010
 
dear mr aurangzaib is the profession of a lawyer permissible in islam.beacuse i have heard many people that it is haram and the income of a lawyer is haram.plz explain Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 08/06/2010
 
salaam Dr. sahib, Quran means reading/recitation, so the hadith followers argue that it is just for reading. how to give them a justified answer. and why is Quran translated as reading when it is for implementing? Question by: shireen On 09/06/2010
 
Salam Aurangzeb Bhai, would u please explain the mystery of kaba for me, why it is for us ect.......... Question by: Nadeem_Akhtar From PAKISTAN On 11/06/2010
 
dear brother auragzaib quran says pray for the MAGHFIRAT of your parents .what does it mean? if my parents have done something against quran how can allah forgive because of my pray.plz let me know about this Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 11/06/2010
 
dear aurangzaib is there any mention of shroud for the deceased in the quran?is it neccessary?plz explain.God bless you Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 13/06/2010
 
dear brother aurangzaib plz tell me about some arabic lughats that are standard and suitable for me caz you know my level.and whats about al mawrid arabic-english dictionary?God bless you Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 14/06/2010
 
dear aurangzaib or qamar zaman if it was not the wife of the prophet zachariah that was barren but was his nation than whats your opinion about the verse(21-89-90) which says WA ISLAHAN LAKA ZAOJA and we cured his wife. Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 16/06/2010
 
dear brother aurangzaib is sayng "ALLAH O AKBAR" right according to quran? God bless you Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 17/06/2010
 
dear brother aurangzaib some people dedicate goat to their dead parents.or when they are in some trouble or ill they decide to dedicate a goat etc to dedicate.i think it is not right but i am not that confident plz give this confidence.explain Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 20/06/2010
 
dear qamar zaman or aurangzaib a muslim is one that lives in peace.if someone abuses ones sister or moher or wife it is quite unbearable.what should a muslim do in this situation?should he fight with such a person?plz elaborate Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 22/06/2010
 
dr qamar zaman sahab regards in one of your answers in blog you have mentioned that if any none muslam is doing a good deed he will be rewared in life after death and you have quoted a verse of quran, but i want to ask about it. Question by: ali.haideer From PAKISTAN (LARKANA) On 25/06/2010
 
dear brother aurangzaib or qamar zaman i want to learn about the fact about karbala i know that it is a false story but i want the reality from you.thanks Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 25/06/2010
 
dear aurangzaib or qamar zaman kindly let me know about "NAZR E BAD"?thanks Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 27/06/2010
 
the quran has been devided into RAKOO'AT and PARAS.is this division right Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 03/07/2010
 
dear dr qamar zaman is the hell eternal despite of the mercy of God Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 06/07/2010
 
Aslamoalikum Dr. Qamar I have to ask you a question about life after death Question by: ali.haideer From PAKISTAN (LARKANA) On 11/07/2010
 
Dr Qamar and Aurangzeb Bhai, there is a verse in Quran 8:63 and 49:10,3:102 my question is about these verses, let me explain my question. Question by: ali.haideer From PAKISTAN (LARKANA) On 11/07/2010
 
is burying the dead in grave neccessary ?hindus burn their dead is it right? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 11/07/2010
 
Dear Docter Qamer-uz-Zaman, A.A 1. Please explain in what sence Quran is the word of GOD? Question by: pervez On 11/07/2010
 
Dear Docter Qamer, In your opinion how for Iqbal"s philosophy of Khoodi is in cnfirmity with quranic teachings. Question by: pervez On 11/07/2010
 
i have heard that the prophet uzair was given death for 100 year by allah and then he was arosen.is it not a miracle?is it real plz expalin Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 13/07/2010
 
salaam Dr. Sahib, plz explain 5:101 and 102. what kind of question would those be that would turn people into disbelievers? Question by: shireen On 16/07/2010
 
Aslamolalikum Dr Qamar: I want to ask a question about Economical System, I am explaing it below. Question by: ali.haideer From PAKISTAN (LARKANA) On 16/07/2010
 
Dr. Qamar there are verses in Quran whose usual translation give the whole pictures of Human development but it is imposible to believe on these verses 1400 years ago,therefore plz give the exact translations of all those verses. Question by: ali.haideer From PAKISTAN (LARKANA) On 16/07/2010
 
Assal O Allaikum Paidaish Masih main Aap Ne yahya Ka Zikar kia (Salasa Alleel) 3 Raat hey Aap Ne is ka mafhoom Kaha Se lia he Aur Dorr-e-Zulmat ye kaha se lia he.( Aamrati ) Jis se murad Aurat K hain Aap Ne is se Muraad Qaum kaha se lia? Question by: babarsharif34@yahoo.com On 17/07/2010
 
dear dr qamar zaman i have seen mullah to quote (2:102) to prove black magic .i think this verse it too mistranslated.plz explian? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 19/07/2010
 
is masturbation haram according to the following verse (23:5-7).i have seen mullah quoting this verse to prove masturbation haram.is it true? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 24/07/2010
 
dr zakir naik interpretes the verse (21:30) as the prediction of BIG BANG THEORY.i ask dr qamar whether this interpretation is true?plz tell does the above verse really tells about the BIG BANG THEORY? thanks Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 25/07/2010
 
dear dr qamar zaman i argued with a person that quran is complete way of life(ZABITA E HAYAT).he told me if quran is complete than which sort of system it seems to establish.i will tell the rest part of question in comments becuse of the lak of sps Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 01/08/2010
 
dear aurangzaib or dr qamar is the clonning of human being allowed in islam? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 07/08/2010
 
Why God did not sent women as Prophet to guide humanity? Any one may like to answere. Question by: pervez On 07/08/2010
 
dea aurangzaib can we say merry christmas to a christian? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 08/08/2010
 
Dear Doctor Qamer sahib, A.A Allah is beyond human understanding but it is subject of Quran, why not life after death? Question by: pervez On 10/08/2010
 
IF QURAN IS BEYOND TIME AND SPACE WHY IT WAS REVEALED IN 23 YEARS? Question by: pervez On 10/08/2010
 
In accordance with QURANIC teachings is there any relationship of natural calamities like floods ,earthquakes etc with human deeds? Question by: pervez On 10/08/2010
 
dear aurangzaib does the Quran merely means RECITATION? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 12/08/2010
 
Please review" wahdatul waajood " in the light of Quran? Question by: pervez On 13/08/2010
 
dear aurangzaiib is the verse (2:222-223) about MENSTRUATION?i think it is about something else not menstruation.plz tell me what it means Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 15/08/2010
 
dear auragzaib Mullahs say how we will distribute The "WAR BOOTY" among the" MUJAHIDIN" if we do not believe in hadith books.how the prophet distributed the war booty, the quran does not tell.How should i answer such blind mullahs.Thanks Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 17/08/2010
 
God has taken the responsibility of Quran for its protection, why not of other divine books if the message was the same and it was beyond time and space? Question by: pervez On 19/08/2010
 
dear auragzaib does ABUBAKAR mean the father of vigin(BAKIRA KA BAAP) or something else.plz tell me is calling him abubakar right.i think there is something wrong?Isn't it? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 19/08/2010
 
dear aurangzaib does the verse " And the Thunder and other Malaika strive to glorify Him by carrying out there duties in awe of him (13:13) show that Malaika are the forces of nature?or it is mistranslated.?this is the translation of allama pervez Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 19/08/2010
 
dear aurangzaib can you plz tell me about the history of Firqa ahl e hadith i mean its emergence ,history etc. Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 21/08/2010
 
Dear aurangzaib Does islam allows to kill or punish people like Salman Rushdi?i think islam can not allow.am i right? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 22/08/2010
 
did moses really killed a man by hitting him according to surah qasas? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 23/08/2010
 
Dr Qamar sahib has reffered to a book Tafhim Ul Quran book 2 last line page 80 in the link below http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=40&QID=453 I want to ask which book is it?who has writen this? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 25/08/2010
 
It is said that Abu Bakar launched Jihad against a group of people that refused to give ZAKAT.Is it right? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 25/08/2010
 
GOD IS ONE BUT WHY AT TIMES HE USES THE WORD WE, (NAHNO,PLURAL) INSTEAD OF I, (SINGULAR) WHEN HE ADDRESSES HUMAN-BEINGS IN HIS BOOK? Question by: pervez On 26/08/2010
 
WHAT IS THE CONCEPT OF INTEREST (SOOD) IN ACCORDANCE WITH QURAN? Question by: pervez On 26/08/2010
 
salaam Dr. Sahib, 1. what is the purpose of saying pbuh for prophets/messengers. does it give them peace after they are dead? 2. why especially for Muhammed and not for other prophets/messengers? Question by: shireen On 27/08/2010
 
Out of fourteen major religions of the world, is Islam the best religion to follow ? It can be noted that out of 6.5 billion world population only 1.4 billion are Muslims; among whom only about 24% are practicing Muslim. Question by: bqayyum From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 27/08/2010
 
Dear Docter Qamer, PLEASE THROUGH SOME LIGHT ON HUMAN NATURE, IN THE LIGHT OF QURAN ? Question by: pervez On 28/08/2010
 
In the quran Allah says that the body of Pharo will be preserved (10:92).Today it is said that Faroah's body was dscovered during excavations in 1898 .Is it the body of pharoa or this verse is mistranslated? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 28/08/2010
 
What is the significance of genotype and phenotype of a persons upbringing in the light of Quran? Question by: pervez On 02/09/2010
 
Dear aurangzaib the Lexicographer's of arabic were also IRANIS like Raghib,Ibne faris etc.And there is no lexicon writen in the age of prophet.is it possible that these IMAMS may also have done some corruption like the IMAMS of ahadith? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 05/09/2010
 
Dear Docter Qamer , Please give references of Quranic verses which guarantees individuals life after death? I request humbly for Docter Sahibs personal answer. Question by: pervez On 08/09/2010
 
Salam Qamar Sb, my question is that if we search gradually development of islam according to Muhammad's mind, then ultimately we concludes that Muhammad borrowed as Sikh pioneer Nanak did, is it true? please reply comprehensively? Question by: amnesty4all On 11/09/2010
 
Dear Docter Sahib , kindly explain verse no 81/19 sura taqweer ayat no 19. Question by: pervez On 12/09/2010
 
Dear aurangzaib or dr qamar can you plz prove KASHAF and ILHAM fake from Quran? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 13/09/2010
 
Dear Dr Sahib and brother aurangzaib can you plz tell me that what was the teaching method of prophet muhammad he was a mualim (teacher) so how he explained the KITAB and HIKMAH? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 14/09/2010
 
Dear Dr Qamar and aurangzaib i ave a question regarding the translation of verse(5:103).i will explain my question below in comments due to the lack of space. Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 17/09/2010
 
KINDLY EXPLAIN IN DETAIL , AYAT NO 5-6 OF SURA AL-MOMINOON? Question by: pervez On 19/09/2010
 
Please explain verse 33 of sura noor? Question by: pervez On 19/09/2010
 
Please translate verse 223/2. traditional translation is, Question by: pervez On 21/09/2010
 
Dear brother aurangzaib i want to ask you was prophet muhammad given WAHI outside the quran?is there any verse in the quran which says that Prophet Muhammad was not given WAHI outside the quran?Thanks Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 21/09/2010
 
Please explain Ayat no 34 of sura al-nisa. Question by: pervez On 22/09/2010
 
what the Quran says about the theory of evolution?Does the quran suport it? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 23/09/2010
 
Dear Dr Sahib and brother Aurangzaib kindly expalin what SUNNAT is according to the Quran? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 27/09/2010
 
Please explain concept of Praying in Islam? Please do not not mix it with Namaz. Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 29/09/2010
 
Please briefly describe economic values Quran desires to be followed in a welfare state? Question by: pervez On 30/09/2010
 
Please briefly describe political values Quran desires to be followed in an Islamic state? Question by: pervez On 30/09/2010
 
What should be the salient features of the defense of an Islamic state in the present scenario in the light of Quranic values ? Mubashir Syed to please include your views on keeping weapons of mass destruction. Question by: pervez On 01/10/2010
 
Historically speaking, a Muslim soldier fights courageously, world knows that, question is why? Question by: pervez On 01/10/2010
 
Please explain origin and meaning of word Allah in Arabic language? Question by: pervez On 09/10/2010
 
Please discuss evolution in the light of" Kun fayakoon" Question by: pervez On 10/10/2010
 
What is God's interest in our well being when he is omnipotent. Please answer this stupid question? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 11/10/2010
 
Where is Muslim world found today in view of new definition of , Muslim, momin etc and does there exist Muslim Umma in these modern times? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 11/10/2010
 
salam dr shab janab sey arz hey k hum english nai jantey,hum kesey quran samaj saktey hain hamarey jeasey kafi loog hain jo ser urdo jantey hain hamara bhe huk hey k deen sumjhain. aghar deen main ibadat nai hey to (maksad e hayyat)kiya hey Question by: iqbalasghar From PAKISTAN (SARA E ALAMGIR) On 14/10/2010
 
salam, janab dr sahab jawab aap sey manga thaa jawab koi or deeta hey kiya ye theek hey ye bhi ho sakta hey k jawab deney walla meri tara k student ho brae mehbani khood jawab dain shukria Question by: iqbalasghar From PAKISTAN (SARA E ALAMGIR) On 18/10/2010
 
PLEASE REVIEW SIGNIFICANCE OF" MAIHER" IN MUSLIM MARRIAGE LAW IN THE LIGHT OF QURAN? Question by: pervez On 21/10/2010
 
sr. mere sawal kajawab nahi mila jin aurat ka shohar marr jae woh 4 mahina 10 din ki eddat kion karti he? haqqoqunnissa parh leney k bad phi sawal mera yahi he ? Question by: babarsharif34@yahoo.com On 21/10/2010
 
Please explain "QAYAMAT" in detail? Will it come when the whole universe will be destroyed and ALLAH will disclose NAMA-I-AIMAL of every individual and his fate for paradise or hell will be decided? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 22/10/2010
 
Gay's, homosexuals claim they are born like that....What do our Astanamembers have to say about it ? Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 22/10/2010
 
Salaamun 'Alaikum, After careful research and study on some 'key' Quranic concepts, I realize that we are to ESTABLISH DEEN in our lives REGARDLESS of the Secularists and their man-made laws. What are your thoughts on this viewpoint? Question by: Damon From UNITED STATES (PITTSBURGH) On 23/10/2010
 
does the concept of hoor exist in christianity?plz help me know it.i need it very much Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 26/10/2010
 
Sir, AAP KI KITAB HAQIQAT MALAIKA PARHHI AIK SAWAL THA. ALLAH NE HAMAIN MALAIKA PAR IMAN LANE KO KAHA HE. AGAR AAP NE JO TAREEF KI MALIKA KI TO US PAR IMAN KA KIA TALOQ BANTA HE. Question by: babarsharif34@yahoo.com On 05/11/2010
 
Some Aastana peer watch the Video on the link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaCWVXNByTc) and comment on its religious aspect Shariq Question by: SS From CANADA (VANCOUVER) On 05/11/2010
 
Have you read Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 07/11/2010
 
We have discussions about life after death and how disruptive it was to imagine that there is no life after death. Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 08/11/2010
 
Is "wahy" part of "sunnat Allah"? If so, how does it works in relation to the laws of nature? Can it be proven? I have another question too (answer one,get one free)please explain 2:78, what it means& whts with the slaves, free, women, etc? Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 10/11/2010
 
MERRY EIDMAS AND HAPPY OLD YEARS,SORRY I MEAN CHRISTMAS MUBARIK . Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 16/11/2010
 
Dear Doctor Qamer ,Muslims believe Prophet Muhammad is "Khatim-un-nabeen" Kindly support this faith with reason? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 19/11/2010
 
Have a look at this : http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 21/11/2010
 
IS QURAN A SIMPLE BOOK TO UNDERSTSND? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 23/11/2010
 
Someone please explain the "dream" concept of Prophet Yusuf? What do the Quran say about dreams,are they true or just thoughts? Im waiting,help:- O Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 24/11/2010
 
Dear Dr Qamar Zaman Please translate verse 2:219 correctly. "And they ask what they should give.Say what is surplus".Does the arabic word "AFU" means surplus? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 27/11/2010
 
Salaam. Is the Quran saying anything about Aliens ,monsters from other planets etc :P?? Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 30/11/2010
 
There is an ongoing discussion on “Ourbeacon” regarding the phrase “Allah-hu-Akbar”. I believe the subject matter to be extremely profound, something which members of Aastana would appreciate reading. Question by: William From UNITED KINGDOM On 30/11/2010
 
Is there any word in the Quraan for BELIEFor BELIEVE? Is Islam an ideology(A comprehensive and coherent set of basic beliefs about political, economic, social and cultural affairs that is held in common by a sizable group of people within a society)? Question by: Hafiz Abdullah From PAKISTAN (RAWALPINDI) On 01/12/2010
 
What are the meanings of EIMAN n MOMIN in 49: 14-15? Question by: Hafiz Abdullah From PAKISTAN (RAWALPINDI) On 01/12/2010
 
Dear Dr Qamar Zaman do you believe that people can still get WAHI from Allah,and become Nabi?Do you not believe that Muhammad was the last who received direct knowledge from God?Why do you say Muhammad is appointing authority of other prophets? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 02/12/2010
 
I have created a branch of the Aastana blog called "Linguistic & grammatical Exposition of the Quran" on Facebook and hope all of you join. nahi to..argg Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 04/12/2010
 
Dear All: Please go through my comments. Question by: Adnan Muhammad Khan From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 04/12/2010
 
PLEASE EXPLAIN AYAT NO 7 OF SURA 33 ( AL AHZAB) Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 06/12/2010
 
Does Quran gives the concept of Nationhood or Countries as they exist today. If yes then what should be the mode and form of Government. Shariq Question by: SS From CANADA (VANCOUVER) On 07/12/2010
 
Dear Dr Qamarzaman: Plz enlighten us about the verse14/48 keeping in view the context of the subject from 42-52.Also the verses 11/107-108,with respect to the context 11/103-108.Thanks Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 15/12/2010
 
How many men and women claimed Prophet hood after Muhammad and did anyone of them made any significant achievement or influenced humanity positively? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 18/12/2010
 
Dear All, what is Ahmed Huluci's Ellah ( idoelogy ) of Islam ? Question by: Mubashir Syed From INDIA (HYDERABAD) On 20/12/2010
 
Plz explain 38:27, how can one become kafir if he think differently about the universe. Also explain 29:44,"signs in the heaven and earth for those who BELIEVE"? Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 24/12/2010
 
Dear Dr Qamar Zaman or brother Aurangzaib a person told me if God can communicate with Moses,Jesus and Muhammad.So why can he not communicate with anybody else today?Please answer my question.Thank you very much Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 25/12/2010
 
Why do people try to prove the Qur'an through science? We find science in other books than the Quran, why are not they labeled as "divine"? Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 26/12/2010
 
I wonder how and why the Human Beings have assumed the status of the best life spices on Earth (or Universe). The term "ASHRAF-UL-MAKHLUQAT" was also coined unilaterally without considering the significance of Mankind in the Universe. Shariq Question by: SS From CANADA (VANCOUVER) On 27/12/2010
 
Please watch , a good video on zakat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vtmZNziH6U&feature=player_embedded#! Question by: alam1162@gmail.com From INDIA (DELHI) On 29/12/2010
 
PLEASE DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN SCIENCE AND DIVINITY ? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 30/12/2010
 
AL-KITAB + LAWS OF NATURE, is divine guidance as Moazzem says, Why humanity was plunged in to religious wars??? SCIENTISTS NEVER FIGHT IF THEY ARE PROVED WRONG. Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 31/12/2010
 
Muslims invented 5 pillows of Islam. Why learning Arabic is not mandatory in Islam?? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 31/12/2010
 
Dear Dr. Qamar Zaman: can you explain: [6/105] وَكَذَلِكَ نُصَرِّفُ الْآيَاتِ وَلِيَقُولُواْ دَرَسْتَ وَلِنُبَيِّنَهُ لِقَوْمٍ يَعْلَمُونَ Question by: M.N.Khalid From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 01/01/2011
 
Sura Baqra Ayah 223 "Your Women are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth as ye will ......". If Allah had to restrict husbands to wifes only then why was "AZWAJ" not used instead of "NISA". Here NISA means any woman (not necessarily wife). Shariq Question by: SS From CANADA (VANCOUVER) On 01/01/2011
 
Aap ke nazar me Tauheen e Risalat koi jurm hai ya nahi? 2- Tauheen e Risalat ke mujrim ko kia saza milni chahye? 3- kia ghair muslimo ko is baat ki ijazat honee chahyee ke wo Rasool e Akram PBUH ki shan me gustakhi kar saken? Question by: UMAR HUSSAIN On 04/01/2011
 
dear dr qamar sahib please translate the verse 4:34.thanks Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 06/01/2011
 
Has Human's beautiful (Animal) instincts and natural desires been checked by Divinity ? Question by: M.N.Khalid From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 08/01/2011
 
Is Sex allowed with Slave Women in Islam? Dr Zakir Naik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UVmSQHquJc&feature=player_embedded#! Question by: mohd.areeb On 08/01/2011
 
Dear Dr Qamar sahib i am not noticing your presence on the blog.You know that without you this blog is nothing.I know you are very busy.But i request you to please give some time to the blog.Thank you very much Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 09/01/2011
 
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/jan2011-daily/10-01-2011/col8.htm Every one is invited to comment on above cited column written by Ansar Abasi, especially. Dr. Sb., Aurangzaib sb., Moazzam Sb., Dr. Shahid and Sister Nargis. Question by: Adnan Muhammad Khan From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 10/01/2011
 
A tribe in Africa who exercise "incest", and believe it to be a divine law. A consequences of such action are injurious to following generations, What are those consequences ? Question by: M.N.Khalid From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 10/01/2011
 
What is good about the "Little Mosque on the Prairie"? Question by: Zubair From UNITED STATES (WASHINGTON) On 11/01/2011
 
Surah Al-Ahzab Ayat No.57 and 61.. for Mr.Adnan and others. Question by: UMAR HUSSAIN On 11/01/2011
 
-Is the Quran changed?If yes,what is changed, how do we know it is changed, and what does it mean when it says no1 can change it?(i have a clue about the last one, but want to share it when i read your answers :-D) Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 25/01/2011
 
How to increase your knowledge? Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 25/01/2011
 
Brother Aurangzaib, I read Q&A of the your blog and found this ref of "Tabqaat-e-Ibn-e-Saad" to Dr. Samreen On23 Sept2010, http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?MID=4&SID=21. If the author of this book is `Abdullah ibn Sa`d Ibn Abi Sarh' Question by: Syeda On 29/01/2011
 
What is free will? What is basic instinct? How does free will separate man from animals? Question by: Junaid From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 31/01/2011
 
QURAN GIVES US PERMANENT VALUES BEYOND TIME AND SPACE, WHAT ARE THOSE? LET US ENUMERATE AND DISCUSS THEM ONE BY ONE? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 02/02/2011
 
Salaam Shalom shabba dabba do ,what is the "driving force" in Human beings, and what is the "nafs" thing? Are human beings superior to other creatures ? If yes, why?hhhhmmmm Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 17/02/2011
 
PERSONALITY IS CHANGELESSNESS IN CHANGE. WHAT IS THAT? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 25/02/2011
 
CAN PROPHETS MAKE MISTAKES? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 10/03/2011
 
Salaam to all (and me) ,What giant "fish" (whale/shark-zilla?) ate Prophet Yunus (37:142) Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 12/03/2011
 
Dear Aurangzaib and dr qamar sahib IS ALLAH THE ACTIVE FA'IL (DOER) IN THE UNIVERSE,OR HE HAS SET LAWS WHICH MANTAIN THE ORDER OF THE UNIVERSE?if allah is not the active fa'il will it not make him a far unapproachable God? n is allah a personal God? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 15/03/2011
 
Please review law of DEET. Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 16/03/2011
 
Dear brother aurangzaib plz let me know about the actual story of TOOFAN E NOH (noah flood).i think the so called n2I interpretation is fake.am i right? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 18/03/2011
 
dear brother auragzaib plz let me know about the actual story of toofan e nooh.i think there is sth wrong with the so called n2i interpretation.am i right Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 18/03/2011
 
salaam Dr. Sahib, Does curse effect any one at all according to Quran? Question by: shireen On 22/03/2011
 
What's the point of mental development & how is it beneficial 4 the humanity? Does the Quran explain why we have to expand our capabilities when we are all goin to die anyway? how will Youm qayama have any meaning to me, when I'm not here? Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 22/03/2011
 
Good News As convener of Janat e Pakistan, Dr. AsarulIslam has nominated Mr. Aurangzaib Yousafzai as the adhoc President and “Party Leader” in Rawalpindi/Islamabad What are the Quranic injunctions for a political party ? Question by: SS From CANADA (VANCOUVER) On 23/03/2011
 
Congratulations to brother AURANGZAIB!!! Dear Brother Aurangzaib i have come to know that you have been choosen as the president of JANAT E PAKISTAN party.I am very happy and want to congratulate you from the core of my hear!!! Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 24/03/2011
 
Brother Moazzam! Should we join/launch any political party to establish the true Islamic state?? As there are already so many parties working under the same manifesto. Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 24/03/2011
 
Can anyone announce manifesto of Jannet-i-Pakistan political party to see how it is different from manifesto of other political parties in Pakistan? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 24/03/2011
 
Will AI surpass Human Intelligence? Question by: Zubair From UNITED STATES (WASHINGTON) On 27/03/2011
 
Brother Aurangzaib ! With out you this blog seems like a picture with out color. eagerly waiting for your comments at mine 29th,march. HOWALLAZEE URSILA RASOOLAHO BIL HUDAA WA DEEN ALHAQQ LIYUZHIRAHO ALLADDIN-E-KULLIH, 6:33, 48:28, , 61:9 . Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 30/03/2011
 
Could woman be an IMAM/NABI/RASOOL in a man dominating societies.While keeping in view her physical system, structure, and her psychology,also MALKA SABA.If not then what about in the societies where she has equal rights? Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 30/03/2011
 
Moazzam saheb and Aastana Members! Your teachings reflects that there is no any predestined event being played at earth. What about the historical steps been described in Quran about prophet Musa and Yousaf see verses 12/4-5, 28/5-7?? Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 06/04/2011
 
The world has succeeded in creating global village by study of "lohimahfooz" and "Alkitab". Is it wise to struggle for a state having label of "Islamic state" which will create a sect in humanity and will not be acceptable even by Muslim Ummah? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 13/04/2011
 
1- Agr KHATIM ka matlab validater hae to MUHAMMAD se pehle kaun ye fareeza sr anjam deta tha? (haln keh Quran doosre nabbiun ka to zikr hae validater ka nahen) 2- Aur MUHAMMAD k bad ab kaun validater hae? Question by: Dr. Iqbal On 18/04/2011
 
In 3/81 " aur jb ham ne nabbiun se MISAAQ lya , jinhen ham ne KITAB aur HIKMAT de k jb tumhare pas koi RASOOL ae , us ki jo tumhare pas hae to tum us pe IMAAN le ana aur us ki NUSRAT krna....." wo kaunse NABI the aur RASOOL hen aur IMAN ka matlab? Question by: Dr. Iqbal On 18/04/2011
 
My dearest brother bob,please throw light on following ayats, sura haj ayat 47, almaaruj ayat 4, ayat 17 : 52 , ayat 10 : 45 , ayat 23 : 113. Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 22/04/2011
 
In the present scenario of changing human civilization, Does the institution of family holds permanent value beyond time and space? What guidance we get from Quran. Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 27/04/2011
 
Dear Dr Qamar Zaman, I wondered if the Quran are making any statements which are not certifiable, or describes mechanisms that our mind cannot understand? If yes, then how are such claims and depictions advantageous? Question by: bob From UNITED KINGDOM On 30/04/2011
 
Dear Members, I want to know about the true story of Toofan e Nooh. Is it different from orthodox story? Wassalam Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 01/05/2011
 
Dear members, please share your valuable thoughts about these questions Question by: bob From UNITED KINGDOM On 03/05/2011
 
IF AASTANA MEMBERS ARE NOT CLEAR AT THE VERY BASIC (IMPORTANT) ISSUE OF HAYAT ADDUNYA and AKHIRAH, HOW WOULD THEY GUIDE THE PEOPLE LIKE ME? PEOPLE LIKE MR MOAZZAM COULD ONLY MISGUIDE,AS I POINTED OUT IN THE BEGINNING.BE AWARE Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 03/05/2011
 
Dear All, does Quran try to convince people about existence of GOD which cant be proved??? Question by: Mubashir Syed From INDIA (HYDERABAD) On 04/05/2011
 
HAZRAT ALLAMA MOAZZAM SAHAB ! Enlighten us about the ALLAH O AKBAR. Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 05/05/2011
 
DearAurangzaib and Aastana members! Could atheist be included in the glad tiding offered to mankind in verse 2/62 . Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 06/05/2011
 
Can the Existence of God, as the Creator, be scientifically proved, irrespective of Quran's verdict that the nature of His existence can't be comprehended? Question by: aurangzaib From PAKISTAN On 12/05/2011
 
Allama moazzam Sahab ! IS POLYGAMY HARAM IN ISLAM AS A SPECIAL CASE ? For more detail read my comments Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 13/05/2011
 
What is alam-i-amer and alam-i-khalq, Question by: pervez On 16/05/2011
 
Dear brother Aurangzaib hope you are doing well.Plz let me now what the word RIBA means.Does it mean the interest of bank.Thank you Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 18/05/2011
 
How can an individual act and help in creating an Islamic society because all efforts for this objective ends up in the demand for a theocratic state. What course of action has been laid down in the Quran Bakhtiar Qayyum Question by: bqayyum From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 21/05/2011
 
Dear Members I wnat to know the divine laws which Quran wants to implement on society. Thanks Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 23/05/2011
 
Dr. Zaman and Aastana Team, While your interpretation of the Quran in "Human Rights" terms is quite refreshing what does the Quran say of one who engages majority of his life in vain deeds(movies, games, relaxing ect) while being peaceful(Muslim)? Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 23/05/2011
 
Dear brother Moazzam plz elaborate what is meant by AL YAHOOD and ALNASARA (as character).I request my respected brother Aurangzaib to take part in the discussion also.Jazakallah. Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 23/05/2011
 
Salam Not all Muslims or believers get a Jenna in this life as one could b peaceful all their life n develop cancer, bad kids, divorce, car accident injury, ect.. How do u explain when bad things happen to good peaceful people? Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 24/05/2011
 
51:56 وَمَا خَلَقْتُ ٱلْجِنَّ وَٱلْإِنسَ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُونِ Pls explain the above ayat. wassalam Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 24/05/2011
 
Salam, Dr. Zaman and Students of Quran, what is the point in praying for the sick or praying for anything for that matter if God wills not to intervene in our lives? Yes we must do our part but where's the hope if God will not intervene? Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 25/05/2011
 
If all aspects of life are controlled by the divine laws and Alkitab is also preserved in "Loh-e-Mehfooz", then everything has to pass the test of logic. What then is the logic with Haraam and Halaal according to Quran. Shariq Question by: SS From CANADA (VANCOUVER) On 25/05/2011
 
Dear Dear ones, is there anything called "soul" in the Quran? Explain like im two years old, here i need spoon feeding or feedingbottle. Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 26/05/2011
 
Dear Dr. Qamar, With all the information on this site and similarly others, how is one to digest it all? There has been a battle to rewire your system to think more rationally and when you think you are, you get another wake up call. Years, maybe? Question by: Shirley C From UNITED STATES (PITTSBURGH) On 26/05/2011
 
Dear brother Mubashir regards,i remember once some Mullah raised objection against the interpretation of MARYAM by Dr QZ that Name can not be translated.Then Dr QZ gave the answer.I request you to send me the link plz.God bless you Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 26/05/2011
 
Aslamoalikum Mozam bhai would you please elaborate the terminology Al-Kitab?? Thanks Question by: ali.haideer From PAKISTAN (LARKANA) On 29/05/2011
 
Please Members What is the true story behind Ashaab e Kahaf, mentioned in soora e Kahaf. In orthodox interpretition these people sleeped in a cave for thousand of years, or something like this. Thanks Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 30/05/2011
 
Salam Dear Brothers Where may I find "Adam o Iblees" English translation of Dr. Zamans book? Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 31/05/2011
 
Salam Dear Brothers (Sisters included) and Aastana Administrators, Does the Quran give us a clear reason of WHY we are on planet Earth in human body and what we are here for? Please see comment below. Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 01/06/2011
 
Dear Brothers and Dr. Zaman, I've been beating myself up over this understanding of shirk or believing in a wrong concept of God. Yes I've read your understanding on this issue but there is a verse in Quran which warns those that say God is trinity Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 02/06/2011
 
Kia app log Hadeeth ko nahi manty? kia app koi hawala hadeeth sy nahi detay. Mojzat ka to Hadeeth main bhi Ziker hay kia app mojzat ko nahi manty? Question by: guest From PAKISTAN On 05/06/2011
 
Dear Moazzam. I want to salute you for your hard work. I started learning Quran only 6 months back and I only started looking at AASTANA couple of weeks back. Question by: waseemameer From AUSTRALIA (SYDNEY) On 05/06/2011
 
Dhulqarnain, Can we follow the injeel and Torah of today? Question by: Nargis-Badshah-Salamat From FIJI (FAUJI) On 06/06/2011
 
Tahir Ul Qadri Ne Murday Ko Kalima Padaya (urdu video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mfb6QriVh8 Question by: alam1162@gmail.com From INDIA (DELHI) On 14/06/2011
 
Dear Moazzam i have seen your recent post about Allah.I want to know Is Allah God or it means ISLAMIC STATE.Do you believe in a God who is FA'ALON LIMA YUREED.And what makes you not believe in a God who is an active fa'il? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 14/06/2011
 
dear moazzam DOES GOD EXISTS?And if he is not involved in the universe and i say HE IS DEAD.Will it be okay with you. Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 15/06/2011
 
Is the Sunnat of Allah Unchangeable? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 15/06/2011
 
Dear brother Moazzam who authored the Quran according to you?Allah or Muhammad himself?Please do not go in details.Just tell me Allah or Muhammad that who is the author of the Quran.Best wishes!!! Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 18/06/2011
 
Dear Moazzam What is the meaning of " INNAHOO LAQUALOO RASOOLIN KAREEM " if the text of quran is from almighty Allah Question by: alam1162@gmail.com From INDIA (DELHI) On 19/06/2011
 
Dear Members,One group waiting for youm ul aakhira as life after death, other group said that youm ul aakhira will be happend in this world. Many people died waiting for this in this world. Are these two groups not in the same condition of waiting Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 20/06/2011
 
Dear All, Recently my uncle have a stoke and his right side is completely paralysed. He cant speak nor can comprehend.He is facing very hard days. What do you think, is he facing makafat e amal. Please comment Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 02/07/2011
 
HAS ALLAH, IN HIS QURAN, RULED ON THE EXPRESSION OF HUMAN SEXUAL BEHAVIOR OR IS MAN FREE TO DECIDE ON HIS OWN HOW TO EXPRESS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 08/07/2011
 
IS INCEST, AS A PARTICULAR SEXUAL BEHAVIOR, ALLAOWABLE OR NOT ALLOWABLE IN DEEN AL-ISLAM? IF ALLOWABLE, WHY? IF NOT ALLOWABLE, WHY NOT? PLEASE GIVE AYATS. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 09/07/2011
 
DR. QAMAR ZAMAN WROTE: "SO ACTUALLY THERE IS NOTHING TO BE CALLED PREMARITAL SEX". IS THIS ASSERTION, ACCORDING TO AL-QURAN, TRUE?!? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 16/07/2011
 
NARGIS WROTE: THE ZANI IS SOMEONE WHO DISTORTS THE QURANIQ WORD. IS THIS ASSERTION, ACCORDING TO AL-QURAN, TRUE? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 18/07/2011
 
who is allah Question by: hm.zeeshan On 19/07/2011
 
Does aya 57/3 justify/give meaning that Allah is beyond time and space? Question by: waseemameer From AUSTRALIA (SYDNEY) On 20/07/2011
 
Is it true that Moses prayed for Aaron and Aaron became prophet. Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 21/07/2011
 
ACCORDING TO AL-QURAN, IS THE UTTERING OF ALLAHU AKBAR, ACCEPTABLE IN THE DEEN OF ALLAH? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 21/07/2011
 
Mummy of Pharon in Egypt is the same pharon who clashes with Moses. ? Is it conforms from Quran? Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 23/07/2011
 
CAN ANYONE ANSWER THIS SIMPLE QUESTION---ACCORDING TO AL-QURAN, WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF--AKBAR? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 23/07/2011
 
Dear brother Moazzam if someone wants to understand the Quran and he is studying it for the first time.How should he study it?How he should attempt to understand a particular episode of the Quran.Thank you very much... Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 29/07/2011
 
Sahibaan, Lanati ka salaam Kia Quran paak main Roh amr Rabbi ke ilawa Rooh amr Allah bhi likha hai? In dono main kia farq hai? Question by: Universal-Lanati From ARMENIA On 30/07/2011
 
Dear Dr.Qamar and members. Please explain 21/53-60. and also 6/76-80 Were those idols made of stones? Didn't they used to worship كَوْكَبًا,الْقَمَرَ,الشَّمْسَ Question by: waseemameer From AUSTRALIA (SYDNEY) On 01/08/2011
 
Dear Sir, It is being preached and commonly understood that Quranic guidance is eternal and everlasting for mankind during all eras. Whether any verse of Quran support this version ? if so , please quote reference of said verse . Thanks. Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 02/08/2011
 
Dear Sir, As per verse No.20 of Sura Al-Furqan(25) All , " Mursaleen;s" ate food and walk about in streets........... Why "Mursaleens;s" came to Seyedina Ibrahim ( who had to go towards "Qoum-e-Loot" , 51/32) denied to eat food from Ibrahim ? Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 02/08/2011
 
Dear Member, According to my new understanding I have left namaz,roza,Hajj. etc.Now what should I do according to Quran. How can I become a good Momin wothout these rituals. Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 02/08/2011
 
WAS THE PROPHET WHO WAS GIVEN THE QURAN...THE LAST PROPHET? YES OR NO AND PROVE EITHER POSITION. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 05/08/2011
 
Salaamun Alikum Dear Aastana Members Please forgive me if I offends the spirit of aastana as I am going to ask few question which seems critical to me. Question by: mmkhan20 From SAUDI ARABIA (JEDDAH) On 08/08/2011
 
Dear Aurangzaib sb, Please explain the meanings of verse 37 of sura 41 Thanks Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 19/08/2011
 
IS AASTANA BLOG DEVOTED TO PHILOSOPHICAL MATERIALISM AND RELIGIOUS HUMANISM AND NOT AL-ISLAM? I'M BEGINNING TO BELIEVE SO. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 19/08/2011
 
Dear Sir, Please explain the meanings of verse 37 of sura 41 Thanks Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 20/08/2011
 
TRUE OR FALSE? 4:82 Will they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have FOUND IN IT MANY A DISCREPANCY. 10:37 And this the Quran...THERE IS NO DOUBT IN IT, from the Lord of the worlds. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 20/08/2011
 
Dear Moazzam,Dr QZ as you say Quran should be understood according to grammar.I have a question:All the Arabic grammars were written by IRANIS.Is there no possibility they have corrupted it like Ahadith?Thanks Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 22/08/2011
 
43:45 And ask those of Our messengers whom We sent before thee: Did We ever appoint gods to be worshipped besides the Beneficent? HOW COULD MUHAMMAD HAVE ASKED THE PRIOR MESSENGERS...ANYTHING? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 23/08/2011
 
Dear Zul-Qarnain. (with Two noons). You have repeatedly asserted on this blog that Surah Al-fatehaa is not part of the Al-Kitaab (Al-Quraan). Hereby I am humbly requesting you to produce your proof. (Read more in comments) Question by: Iqbal kay shaheen From NAMIBIA (WALVIS BAY) On 23/08/2011
 
TO ALL WHO IS THE "YOU" MENTIONED IN THE FOLLOWING AYAT? 2:4 And who believe in that which has been revealed to YOU and that which was revealed before YOU and they are sure of the hereafter. Question by: PRIEST BOKMEI From UNITED STATES On 24/08/2011
 
Dear Moazzam and Dr Qamar sahib Is the Phrase ALFE SHAHR MURAKAB E TOUSIFI or MURAKKABE ADADI?And what does it mean?Thanks Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 28/08/2011
 
Dear Dhulqurnain,Why Allah called Himself Al-Momin and Al-salaam in 59/23 Question by: waseemameer From AUSTRALIA (SYDNEY) On 30/08/2011
 
Dear Dr. Q.Z sb. A questio as comments below. Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 30/08/2011
 
WHY ARE RACIAL SLURS TOWARD AFRICAN AMERICANS ACCEPTABLE AT AASTANA BLOG? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 31/08/2011
 
CHALLENGE! CHALLENGE! CHALENGE! CAN ANYONE NAME ONE PROPHET, ALONG WITH, AND SINCE THE DEATH OF THE PROPHET REFERRED TO AS MUHAMMAD? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 06/09/2011
 
NARGIS/AASTANA BLOG, PLEASE ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS CONCERNING AYATS 3:21 AND 33:40 Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 08/09/2011
 
NARGIS, MOAZZAM, WASEEMAMEER, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. GIVE US YOUR EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. NO MORE CONVOLUTED DISCOURSES. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 13/09/2011
 
WASEEMAMEER, WHAT IS THE TRUE MEANING OF 51:56? WHAT IS THE HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DHULQARNAIN AND AASTANA THAT NO WAY CAN THEY GATHER ON ONE PLATFORM? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 15/09/2011
 
Dear Dr.Qamar and members. Please explain the meaning of Moosa and Esa. At what paradigms ابواب they are at, and what meanings they give on those ابواب? Dear Dr.Sahab, your input will be highly appreciated. Question by: waseemameer From AUSTRALIA (SYDNEY) On 16/09/2011
 
Is the Quran preaching BELIEVES ? I.E does it state anything in order to achieve unconfirmed belief in its students? 2) does it back up its claims with proofs, 3) HOW? Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 16/09/2011
 
NARGIS and MOAZZAM THERE HAS BEEN ALOT OF TALK ABOUT THE "GRAMMAR" RELATIVE TO AL-QURAN. MY QUESTION IS THIS, ISTHE GRAMMAR 100% ACCURATE? YES: EXPLAIN NO: EXPLAIN Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 17/09/2011
 
QAMAR, MOAZZAM, NARGIS, NAEEM, DOES QAMAR AND AASTANA BLOG BELIEVE THE FOLLOWING ASSERTIONS TO THE TRUTH? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 27/09/2011
 
Mr. Aurangzaib: Who is responsible for detracking me and many others who left Ramazan Fasting, Namaz especially after reading your booklet"tahqeeq namaz o salat"at Aastana? are you not an instable personality as per your shufling record?? Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 27/09/2011
 
NARGIS, MOAZZAM, WAQAR, NAEEM, ET ALL IS WAHY OR EXTRINSIC OR INTRINSIC? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 29/09/2011
 
MOAZZAM, NARGIS, NAEEM, MUBASHIR, WAQAR, YOU PEOPLE CANNOT POSSIBLY BE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS....OR ARE YOU? PLEASE EXPLAIN! Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 30/09/2011
 
PEACE TO ALL, ACCORDING TO AL-QURAN, WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF...A GOD" (I'M NOT REFERRING TO ALLAH, BUT THE TERM GOD IN GENERAL )? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 02/10/2011
 
WHICH TAKES PRIORITY--TASREEF OVER GRAMMAR OR GRAMMAR OVER TASREEF? PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR POSITION. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 03/10/2011
 
What is the position of Athiest in Quran? Will Athiesm be practiced/ let exist in the Quranic Society? What difference it will make if oneself is Athiest? Question by: waseemameer From AUSTRALIA (SYDNEY) On 05/10/2011
 
PEACE TO ALL, MOAZZAM ASKS: CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PROPHET AND MESSENGER PROPHET, NABI AND NABI RASOOL? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 07/10/2011
 
what the harm if someone perform rituals. Will Allah ask him why you did rituals. If one perform rituals and other dont then whats the difference they make on society. Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 09/10/2011
 
PEACE TO ALL, DOES AASTANA BLOG REPRESENT: DEEN AL-ISLAM OR... DEISM. DHULQARNAIN- Question by: ARCHILOCUS From UNITED STATES On 15/10/2011
 
Dear Sir, Please explain meanings of 27/42 to 44 Thanx Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 30/11/2011
 
Dear sir, Please put some light on the death of Hazrat Hussain according to the history. and Dr sahib, we all are waiting for complete quranic translation Question by: matifsaeed From PAKISTAN (LAHORE) On 30/11/2011
 
PEACE NARGIS AND MOAZZAM. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ADDRESS THIS MAJOR CONTRADICTION: TELL US CLEARLY, IS YOUR POSITION STATEMENT "A" OR STATEMENT "B"? DHULQARNAIN- Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 01/12/2011
 
PEACE TO ALL, TO MY QUESTION: DO THE MALAIKA DO WRONG/EVIL? NAEEM SHEIKH ANSWERED: YES, SEE 2:34 IS HE CORRECT? DHULQARNAIN: Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 15/12/2011
 
WHY QURANISTS ARE DIVIDED LIKE RELIGIOUS MULLAHS IF THEY CLAIM THE RIGHTEOUS ONES ??? Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 01/02/2012
 
What do you guys think - Why some children around the world are born with defects like, blindness, handicapped, infected with acute diseases (HIV) etc., Why do they suffer their life for no fault of their own? Why does God do this them? Question by: sameermoopa From INDIA On 05/04/2012
 
Dear Members: Pls share ur thought on:'What is the 'purpose' of our existence?' Quran says 'And I didn't create the jinn and mankind except to do my IBADATH'(51:56). If this is the purpose, what does IBADATH mean here? Why God wants our Ibadath? Question by: sameermoopa From INDIA On 09/04/2012
 
can some one enlighten us about the real concept of SALAWATULLAH ALA NABI.Thanks. Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 20/04/2012
 
Assaam,iam Nasir(India)iam understanding salah by your explanation tell me about vazu in surah maaida Question by: ameet From INDIA (ANANTAPUR) On 26/04/2012
 
thank you a better answer that Salath is not namaz so what is reality of namaz how this exist Question by: ameet From INDIA (ANANTAPUR) On 28/04/2012
 
assalam,was Allah speak with insan directly ? Question by: ameet From INDIA (ANANTAPUR) On 04/05/2012
 
agar zina najayij talluq nahi tho najayij talluq ke baare me quran me kya hai? Question by: ameet From INDIA (ANANTAPUR) On 15/05/2012
 
dea members. If someone do misdeeds(do wrong things) than he repent and ask toba, will he still have to suffer his misdeeds in this life. Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 10/06/2012
 
respected qamar sir, what about here after life(Akhirath) in sight of quran? Question by: ameet From INDIA (ANANTAPUR) On 17/06/2012
 
Respected Dr Zaman. I am reading your translation of the Quran with great interest and I thank you for your efforts. I would like to understand the concept of Akhirat in light of the Quran. Salaam. Question by: Riaz From UNITED KINGDOM (LONDON) On 11/08/2012
 
If soam is not traditional "Roza" then why the later part of ayat relating to soam says that the women should complete the count after finishing with their menses? Question by: ansasausam From UNITED STATES (FLUSHING) On 27/10/2012
 
What is Shetan, can shetan affects the desire of Momin? Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 11/12/2012
 
What "the Aastana research forum says about the Atheists ??? Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 13/12/2012
 
What is the true sense of Duaa' mentioned at many places in Quran and been used as an effective tool in almost all religions? Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 13/12/2012
 
salaam Dr sahib.pls explain the meaning of نسخ ? and 2:104? Question by: saidalavi ansari From INDIA (KERALA) On 17/12/2012
 
Salam Dr sahib pls Explain verse 2/106 مَا ننسخ من آية Question by: saidalavi ansari From INDIA (KERALA) On 19/12/2012
 
ABOUT EISA "death/up lifting to heaven" Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 01/04/2013
 
Some body asked about the meaning of سِقَايَةَ الْحَاجِّ وَعِمَارَةَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ . Here it is answer to the question asked. Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 23/04/2013
 
Some body asked that, how does it affect "the understanding of qura'an" as well practical life of people if Eisa borne with OR with out father???????? Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 25/04/2013
 
Dr sahib salam pls pls pls explain 2:233 والوالدات يرضعن أولادهن.......................... Question by: saidalavi ansari From INDIA (KERALA) On 01/05/2013
 
who is muthllakth المطلَّقات Question by: saidalavi ansari From INDIA (KERALA) On 01/05/2013
 
Hijab Jilbaab/ by Moazzam Islam Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 18/06/2013
 
Respected Dr, Qamar Zaman sb some one says mostly the trad trans is what is written in Quran but what U r bringing is new verbal meanings of Words,why should we choose those words as Quran is Mubin and it explains itself.e.g what U describe of halal. Question by: shaista From PAKISTAN (LAHORE) On 08/12/2013
 
Kindly send Dr. Qamar Zaman's US phone number to me at AsarSyed@gmail.com Question by: Asarulislam From UNITED STATES (LOS ANGELES) On 12/06/2014
 
I wrote many times in the form on the site, but no one answers. So, I have a translation of the book "THE TRUTH ABOUT SALAT. Dr. Qamar Zaman" to Russian. Do you want to put it on the site? Question by: onlyquran01 From RUSSIAN FEDERATION (RUSSIA) On 04/07/2014
 
Respected Aastana team, please could you kindly point me to the surah and ayat number of the two ayats referenced on page 9 & 10 of Sarchashma Hidayat sirf Al Quran? Thanks in advance for your assistance. Question by: Riaz From UNITED KINGDOM (LONDON) On 27/12/2014
 
Aoa, dear aastana members can you kindly translate surah ikhlaas exposing its main theme Question by: Abdul Hadi Saqib From PAKISTAN (LAHORE) On 14/03/2015
 
مسلمانوں کی نمازوں کے زرتشتی ماخظ Dowanload Question by: Adnan From PAKISTAN On 17/04/2015
 
i have asked two questions please Dr Q z sab post my 2nd question in this blog too. if it is not possible to post it here. then please reply to me via email. as i am really confused about the soum. why ghulam ahmed perwez sab couldn't explain? Question by: kanju swat From UNITED KINGDOM (LONDON) On 11/11/2015
 
aap jo quran ki wazahat karte hein 'kia aap khuda(god) per yaqeen(belief) rakhte hein? oor han(yes)! to aap ka aqeda(belief) kia hai? Question by: sufyanarif From PAKISTAN On 21/12/2015
 
Comments...
Blog Home Question Explorer Member's Area Mission & Vision Join AASTANABLOG
© 2006-2010 Aastana e Research and Understanding Quran. All Rights Reserved
www.aastana.com