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TRANSLATION OF QURAN
BY DR. QAMAR ZAMAN
Translation Status
آیات
سورۃ
نمبر
1-7 الفَاتِحَة -1
1-286 البَقَرَة -2
1-200 آل عِمرَان -3
1-176 النِّسَاء -4
1-120 المَائدة -5
1-165 الاٴنعَام -6
1-206 الاٴعرَاف -7
1-75 الاٴنفَال -8
1-129 التّوبَة -9
1-109 یُونس -10
1-123 هُود -11
1-111 یُوسُف -12
1-43 الرّعد -13
1-52 إبراهیم -14
1-99 الحِجر -15
1-128 النّحل -16
1-111 بنیٓ اسرآئیل / الإسرَاء -17
1-110 الکهف -18
1-98 مَریَم -19
1-135 طٰه -20
1-112 الاٴنبیَاء -21
1-78 الحَجّ -22
1-118 المؤمنون -23
1-64 النُّور -24
1-77 الفُرقان -25
1-227 الشُّعَرَاء -26
1-93 النَّمل -27
1-88 القَصَص -28
1-69 العَنکبوت -29
1-60 الرُّوم -30
1-34 لقمَان -31
1-30 السَّجدَة -32
1-73 الاٴحزَاب -33
1-54 سَبَإ -34
1-45 فَاطِر -35
1-83 یسٓ -36
1-182 الصَّافات -37
1-88 صٓ -38
1-75 الزُّمَر -39
1-85 المؤمن / غَافر -40
1-54 حٰمٓ السجدة / فُصّلَت -41
1-54 القَمَر -54
Read Now


»«
ISLAM
BELIEFS
Add Your QuestionView More QuestionsEmail this DiscussionPrinter Friendly View
My dearest brother bob,please throw light on following ayats,  
 
sura haj ayat 47, almaaruj ayat 4, ayat 17 : 52 , ayat 10 : 45 , ayat 23 : 113.
Add Your Comments  Question by: MOMIN On 22 April 2011
Comments by: momin On 22 April 2011Report Abuse
The question is addressed to bob to read his enlightening post which I am missing since long.  
However, anyone like dear friend Aurangzeb, Moazzam , Mubashir Syed , Zubair and Shariq  
may also like to comment. In my opinion ayats pertain to concept of time and life hereafter in  
Quran. Hence it is imperative to discuss it at length.  
 
THANKS,  
MOMIN  

Comments by: momin On 24 April 2011Report Abuse
oh, no one here, I wanted to write something but I would like to listen to brother Aurangzeb, Moazzam and others  
first. Because certainly interpretation may differ from traditional interpretations.  
 
Dearest bob you didn't agree to my request. Anyway, here is something exclusively for you, please listen,  
 
http://youtu.be/EBR0INSvr4c

Comments by: Nargis2 On 24 April 2011Report Abuse
These aya's are about the day the Deen is established, and ppl will ask the Rusool when it will happen when will it happen, and the rusol will assure them it will happen no matter what, because time doesnt mean anything. What mean something is that no matter what, it will happen, and that because of the hard work and striving for betterment, by momineens and muslemeens( between NOW and untill THEN, to the day of revolution) Te phir ki main jhoot bolea?,,, Forget Bob the angrez, lets hear what Brother aurungzaib and Moazzam say :-D

Comments by: pervez On 24 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear brothers,  
 
1. CONCEPT OF TIME, we know that time is something relative. We perceive it due to rotation of the earth.  
We are living in a solar system and our time concept is related to it. It has no reality outside this system.  
therefore Allah tells,  
 
a. Sura haj ayat 47, Sometimes, one day is equal to one thousand years.  
 
b. sura almaaraj ayat 4. Sometimes it equals fifty thousand years.  
 
What almighty wants us to know is that we should keep in view the concept of time and shouldn't enslave  
ourselves in the limited and relative concept of time while understanding life and its purpose.  
 
2. LIFE AFTER DEATH.  
 
a. 17:52 when humans will be asked after death in the next life ,as to how much time  
they lived on earth , their answer would be just for a small period.  
 
b.10-45 Some will feel they lived for an hour so on so.  
 
c. 23:113 Some will say they lived for one day or a part of it.  
 
 
2. CONCLUSION is that our concept of time has no reality. We should have vision of universe to understand  
life and its purpose. Life continues after death.Time and space are neither relative nor absolute.Time is  
nothing but illusion created by arrangement, movement or rotation of planets.  
 
3.CONSCIOUSNESS. Quran demands our belief in human consciousness which is eternal. Its denial results  
into injustices. It is yet not discovered as to where consciousness exists in human body.  
 
4. Mind and brain are different. You can find brain in sold form , but can't find mind in any form.  
 
5. We can only perceive those things which come in the realm of five senses..But we can't deny  
activities happening outside our senses.  
 
6. DEAR MOMIN, I know you will not agree with me. However, I have posted my thoughts for your  
careful and serious consideration.  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 24 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Allama Parwez  
 
life after death ,,,does it zaroori zaroori have to mean life after the physical death?  
 
Life after death may mean the life given by the Quran to the already dead ppl, zinda lashe, the dead men walking...  
 
when they then are asked how long have you been living on earth, they will say an hour or so, because the dead life was pointless, meaningless,,dead gone went gone....  
 
Our beloved moaazam will shed light on the "numbers",,,,is it really 50 000, 1000, one hour etc etc , or is it something else?  
 
Oh mai Gad, i cant even count, how will these aya's make sense to un parh un ginnti or ginti less ppl like me? :(:(

Comments by: momin On 24 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear baity Nargis2  
 
I think you are right. Dear Pervez seems to be influenced by Allama Pervez. Let us see what  
others have to say especially brother Moazzam , Aurangzeb and dearest brother bob.

Comments by: pervez On 24 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear momin and sister Nargis,  
 
SORRY, PLEASE DON'T MIND I TOTALLY DIFFER WITH BOTH OF YOU.  
I normally read only but since this was too important issue therefore decided to give my views. How  
ever, you have every right to differ.

Comments by: Nargis On 24 April 2011Report Abuse
Manmo Momin, i thought this is allama Parwez himself, i always wanted to converse with him :-D but those who belive this aya is about life after death, then they can only confirm it with the death,,,and we still wont benefit from that, because they cant come back in black...  
 
 

Comments by: moazzam On 24 April 2011
Dear Participants! You have to discriminate between following two extremes.  
1) The out comes (results) of your good or bad deeds would be seen in the life after death, then sense of all Quranic terms like YOUM AL QAYAMA/YOUM AL MEHSHER/YOUM AL HISAB/ YOUM –E-YUBASOON would be taken as per orthodox interpreters usually considered, resultantly you will become a RELIGIOUS MAN WITH SOME BELIEF IN DOGMAS AND FOLLOWER OF RITUALS.  
2) Consider that, this Quran provides eternal guidance to mankind for life before death. And the good /bad deeds of each individual/group must bring their results on the basis of MAKAFAT-E-AMAL in this world (life before death). The all afore said Quranic terms will give the sense of some (event) happening being promised in this world. I mean the establishment of ISLAMIC STATE (the time of accountability ie execution of punishment and distributions of rewards) in lieu of every one’s deeds.  
 
 
I, ADVISE, PLEASE READ THE SURAH MOMINOON FROM START TO END, AND PAY ESPECIAL ATTENTION AT VERSES 23/51—118, THE MATTER WILL BE CLEARED TO YOU WHEN YOU REACH AT VERSE 23/113..  

Comments by: pervez On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Moazzam,  
 
1. you said,  
 
"Consider that, this Quran provides eternal guidance to mankind for life before death. And the good /bad deeds of each individual/group must bring their results on the basis of MAKAFAT-E-AMAL in this world (life before death)."  
 
2. No one has ever proved that there is no life after death. Where as there is ample historical evidence  
that human beings want to live for ever. Quran doesn't deny life after death. That is the goal/objective  
to be achieved. Belief in life after death doesn't make you a religious person. Terminologies you referred  
to are applicable to life ,which is continuous may be before or after death with more meaningful way.  
 
3. I don't understand why we are making this life meaningless by taking away the beautiful concept of  
life after death, without any clear cut evidence from Quran. Would like to elaborate. I humbly differ  
with you when you say that Quran is only for life before death. I agree that we can't understand that life  
and the major portion of Quran is for life before death but total denial of eternal life is denial of human  
consciousness. It's development is the main goal of human life.

Comments by: Nargis On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
Allama Parwez said : "I don't understand why we are making this life meaningless by taking away the beautiful concept of  
life after death, without any clear cut evidence from Quran."  
 
if its not written any "concept" in the Quran, and we twist aya to fit our desire so this life is meaningful, would that make a difference ? The truth will remain truth no matter how we twist the words, so why not just look at the meaning given in the Quran in its true sense instead? What we want can not change reality, and the author of the Quran didnt describe life after physical death for a reason, simply because we cant grasp it. When Brother Moazzam said Quran is for life before physical death, he means its not talking to dead ppl but to ppl who are still alive and can walk the walk, people who can make use of the message and apply to daily life, instead of day dreaming about life after death...would we work harder if the Quran is talking about things we cant understand, but want to achieve (paradise in the orthodox meanin)  
 
How will discussing life after death in the Quran, affect our behaviour? Isnt the Quran given as a guidance which can be used for practical means for establishing system and processes that would be beneficial for mankind improving our standard of living,rather than informing us about things our brain cant comprehend.  
 
someone said  
 
Dunya hi jannat hai, jannat main kia hoga?  
Dekhe yeha lakhoun woha to ikk khuda ho ga  
 
:-D  
 
"Agar na sahl hon tujh par zameen ke hangame  
 
Buri hay mastiye adesha haa-e-aflaaki"  
(i think i wrote this in my previous life, when my name was Iqbal something,hmmm?)  
 
 

Comments by: momin On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Nargis,  
Agar na sahl hon tujh par zameen ke hangame  
Buri hay mastiye adesha haa-e-aflaaki" by Nargis  
 
 
"How will discussing life after death in the Quran, affect our behaviour?" by Nargis  
 
 
"if its not written any "concept" in the Quran, and we twist aya to fit our desire so this life is meaningful, would that make a difference ?"  
by Nargis  
 
I AM THINKING,  
 
 
 

Comments by: Nargis On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
RIDDLE – while your thinking...  
 
Main goal: To solve problems.  
 
There are two math teachers.  
 
One teaches actual math e.g. algebra, graphs, trigonometry...  
 
The other constantly talks about the beauty of being a mathematician. He informs his students about how it will be when they become mathematicians.  
 
Which teacher is more beneficial to the students? Who actually solves problems?  
 
Or  
 
Main goal: To treat and remove illness.  
 
Two doctors.  
 
One is treating his patients, ensuring follow-ups, performs surgery, writes medical prescriptions, etc.  
 
The other just informs them of how they can be cured or what their condition will be like when they are cured.  
 
Which doctors' patients will be cured? Which doctor is actually treating and removing illnesses?  
 
Or  
 
Main goal: Takes people out of darkness into the light.  
 
Two books.  
 
One book provides methods and knowledge to establish a just society; to liberate those who suffer at the hands of ruthless regimes, the results being apparent when the student of the book DOES what he / she is instructed to do. The results are achievable and clearly visible for all to witness.  
 
The other book informs people how beautiful life after death will be; requesting them to bear with the suffering, as it is temporary.  
 
Which book is beneficial for humanity? Which book is applicable and helps to people to flourish?  
 
Which of the two books takes people out of darkness into the light?  
 
Or  
 
Two lawyers ....  
 
...Is the point taken or should I write more boring scenarios?  
 
:P:P  

Comments by: pervez On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
Respectable sister Nargis,  
 
 
1.You have addressed your reply to Mr. Momin, probably he got confused.That is also a stage of learning,  
I would like to answer you.  
 
a. Nargis,  
There are two math teachers.  
 
One teaches actual math e.g. algebra, graphs, trigonometry...  
 
The other constantly talks about the beauty of being a mathematician. He informs his students about how it will be when they become mathematicians.  
 
Which teacher is more beneficial to the students? Who actually solves problems?  
 
Pervez,  
 
Both the teachers seems useless teachers. That teacher will be good who solves the problem and also  
talks of beauty of being a mathematician. He has qualities of head and heart.  
 
b. Nargis,  
Main goal: To treat and remove illness.  
 
Two doctors.  
 
One is treating his patients, ensuring follow-ups, performs surgery, writes medical prescriptions, etc.  
 
The other just informs them of how they can be cured or what their condition will be like when they are cured.  
 
Which doctors' patients will be cured? Which doctor is actually treating and removing illnesses?  
 
PERVEZ.  
 
 
Again both the doctors are are not ideal. Third doctor who " is treating his patients, ensuring follow-ups,  
performs surgery, writes medical prescriptions" and 'informs them of how they can be cured or what  
their condition will be like when they are cured"  
 
 
 
c. Nasrgis,  
One book provides methods and knowledge to establish a just society; to liberate those who suffer at the hands of ruthless regimes, the results being apparent when the student of the book DOES what he / she is instructed to do. The results are achievable and clearly visible for all to witness.  
 
The other book informs people how beautiful life after death will be; requesting them to bear with the suffering, as it is temporary.  
 
Which book is beneficial for humanity? Which book is applicable and helps to people to flourish?  
 
PERVEZ.  
 
I would leave both and search for the third option. A 'book which provides methods and knowledge to establish  
a just society and which also tells how meaningful and beautiful life is after death therefore humans should not be  
discouraged by hard ships of life rather should strive for betterment. Hardships are temporary if they suffer in this  
world during the process they will evolve to a better stage of life after their death as a result of their good deeds.  
So no concept of injustice to them who suffer fighting in the path of betterment.  
 
2. CONCLUSION  
 
a First example. Both teachers rejected I will find 3rd one as explained above,  
 
b. Second example. Both doctors rejected, I will 3rd one as explained above.  
 
c. Third example, Both books rejected , I will find 3rd one as explained above.  
 
d. A verse,  
 
SHAIR KI NAWA HO K MOGHANI KA NAFAS HO  
 
 
 
JIS SAI CHAMAN AFSOORDA HO WO BADAY SABA KIA.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Comments by: UmeAimon On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
Salam,  
 
Why can’t a conscious that perceived something that is considered divine and unimaginable by others perceive something that is still inconceivable by others??  
 
Lets not forget what is the concern of those who say when will it all bear result ...It is a dream for most and most will die before this dream will ever come true.. So whats the point of living at all when I will not be able to even see the results of my hard work. The concern is natural and could be saying ...Be ready to die for a purpose without any reward :) .. hard thing to do right.  
I am not saying what these ayats imply but to deny anyhing beyond what we cannot perceive right now may not be exactly the best thing to do and might exactly be the reason for all talk and no show in the end...  
 
jazakAllah  
 
UmeAimon

Comments by: momin On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear sister UmeiAimen,  
 
Your post is a light at the end of the tunnel. Allah bless you.  
 
"to deny anyhing beyond what we cannot perceive right now may not be exactly the best thing to do and might exactly be the reason for all talk and no show in the end... " by UmeiAimen  

Comments by: moazzam On 25 April 2011
Dear Participants !  
Pervez : I don't understand why we are making this life meaningless by taking away the beautiful concept of  
life after death, without any clear cut evidence from Quran. Would like to elaborate.  
Moazzam :I believe in life after death (with out comprehension ),but I mean,the religious Mullahs making this comprehendible life meaningless by taking away the beautiful concept of Yaum al hisab as a TIME OF ACCOUNTIBILITY (judgment day) before death in the established Islamic state.  

Comments by: pervez On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Moazzam,  
 
1. Is it fair to translate Quran keeping in view concept of Mullah in mind?  
Let us talk about reality.  
 
2. "Beautiful concept of Yaum al hisab as a TIME OF ACCOUNTIBILITY' is applicable to life  
in this world and life after death. No problem,read ALLAMA PERVEZ.  
 
3. Ayats where life and death is discussed , sometimes pertain to life before death and at times  
after death too.  
 
4. Why there is no ayat in Quran which denies life after death? That could have been better way  
to handle Mullah if we think it is the best way.  
 
5. Which ayat says Quran is only for socioeconomic values? I think it talks of entire life considering  
human needs.  
 
6. Dear friend please think. It is not a trivial matter,that you or Allah can ignore. It changes the  
entire psychology of a person.  
 
7. I am 100% confidant about what I said. However you have the right to differ.

Comments by: momin On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
 
BUT I AM STILL THINKING.

Comments by: moazzam On 25 April 2011
Dear Parvez ,Participants!  
1. Is it fair to translate Quran keeping in view concept of Mullah in mind?  
Let us talk about reality (pervez)  
No, there should be no positive or negative biasing rather should be transparent (moazzam)  
 
2. "Beautiful concept of Yaum al hisab as a TIME OF ACCOUNTIBILITY' is applicable to life  
in this world and life after death. No problem, read ALLAMA PERVEZ.  
Ayats where life and death is discussed, sometimes pertain to life before death and at times  
after death too.(pervez)  
Let the context decide.  
The matter under question is the actual sense of the Quranic terminologies"YOUM AL QAYAMA/YOUM AL MEHSHER/YOUM AL HISAB/ YOUM –E-YUBASOON "  
Most of the orthodox translators limited the sense as THE ONLY POSSIBLE EVENT IN "LIFE AFTER DEATH".  
Ware as the Quranic text suggests the proper sense to be taken as the day of judgment = time of accountability, in the established Islamic state. I quoted the verse 23/113 along with its context verses 15-118.  
MY DEAR, there is no body at this forum who Denies life after death, BUT SEE THE PRACTICAL RESULTS OF THE MISCONCEPTS OF THE ABOVE MENTIONED TERMINOLOGIES IN THE RELIGIOUS WORLD(especially in the so called Muslims (moazzam)  
 
 
4. Why there is no ayat in Quran which denies life after death? That could have been better way  
to handle Mullah if we think it is the best way(pervez)  
Who is denying??(moazzam)  
 
5. Which ayat says Quran is only for socioeconomic values? I think it talks of entire life considering  
human needs(pervez)  
YES IT IS (moazzam)  
 
6. Dear friend please think. It is not a trivial matter,that you or Allah can ignore. It changes the  
entire psychology of a person.(pervez)  
YES,SAME TO MY STANCE ,  
the day of judgment = time of accountability, in the established Islamic state. I quoted the verse 23/113 along with its context verses 15-118.  

Comments by: momin On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Moazzam,  
 
I am grateful to you, brother Pervez, baity Nargis and respectable sister  
UmeiAimon. Your participation in this discussion on a very important topic has been rewarding.  
My confusion due to lack of my knowledge and poor understanding of Quran has been considerably  
reduced. However, there is still room for thinking when relevant ayats will come up for translation.  
Still translation of Quran is not complete. So such discussions must continue. I will request brother  
Pervez to review translation of Allama Pervez with open mind. Process of learning will continue.  
Especial thanks to respectable sister UmeiAiman. I have missed participation of brother Aurangzeb  
Mubashir Syed and Zubair. Anyway.....  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear allama Parwez, the third part, C is your wish, i was not asking which one of these were good or bad, or how they could be changed, i was asking which one of them were more beneficial to the recipient in relation to the mentioned goals...haha  
 
(in that case, my ideal math teacher would be someone who gave me A, even when i failed haha)  
 
There is a HUUUUGE difference between saying life after death is not depicted, described or presented to us.. AND... DENYING it.  
 
Here are two different lines..  
 
A; these ayas are dealing with life BEFORE DEATH  
 
B; i deny life after death  
 
Just to clarrify, they are two totally different statements...  
 
I know life after physical death is desirable and our life here seems pointless if we don't continue our journey,,,,  
 
No mattter how lovely cozy beautiful that concept is  
 
I still cant find this concept in the aya presented above, ,,(or a description,depiction,model of it)  
 
No matter how much i like cream cake and ice cream, i can still not find any recipe in the Quran  
 
No matter how good kung fu is... I still cannot find any specific instructions to learn it in the Quran  
 
BUT  
 
LEKIN  
 
Im not denying them....  
 
Did you all get the point or should we arm wrestle about it? Or the Staring game - first one who blinks has lost, hmmm... huh... so is he a loser?  
 
(icecream and creamcake,,yammiii im goin to have some nowww)  
 

Comments by: momin On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
 
Sister Nargis,  
 
1. We will discuss translation of ayats when translated.  
 
2. Why you restricted me with two choices when the third choice is available. Is it because you wanted  
me to accept your point of view. Sorry, I correctly went for the third choice.  
 
3. You said, "I know life after physical death is desirable and our life here seems pointless if we  
don't continue our journey,,,," Good. this was my point too. That is the motivation and beauty. How you  
visualise a divine book ignoring this aspect and does not lay down foundation of welfare state without  
it. Referred ayats can be interpreted to include belief in life after death. Very wise people in the world  
have done that. Why you exclude?  
 
4. I HAVE A STRONG DISAGREEMENT ON THIS ISSUE.

Comments by: Nargis2 On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
Hello Manmo brother  
 
Regardless of the choices, the aim here was to establish what fulfills the criterion of bearing positive results and meets the goals that are stated- It was not to force anyone to agree with the obvious choice, but to appreciate the examples which are parallel to our reality. (Quran vs. our wishes)  
 
As i said earlier, if the Quran is given to move hearts and minds, the content would be comprehendible in every aspect to people in every era of time.  
 
If the Quran tells us about science which is to be revealed by scientists after 50 000 years, how is this information beneficial and practical for the people in the current time?  
 
Will the information about life after death that we can’t comprehend, make us momin or muslims?  
 
Just wondering…  

Comments by: pervez On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
 
Dear sister Nargis,  
 
1. I normally feel contended by reading here, but since this issue was such that I was compelled to  
pen down my thoughts.  
 
2. You said, "Will the information about life after death that we can’t comprehend, make us momin or muslims?"  
I think you are talking about information about life after death. Respectable sister , that is not the issue.  
Information is something else which is the domain of Mullah. Quran doesn't give any such information.  
However, the book tells you that your career doesn't stop with your death. This one sentence make human  
life meaningful and beautiful. Didn't you say,  
 
"I know life after physical death is desirable and our life here seems pointless if we don't continue our journey,,,,"  
 
So, respectable sister you have yourself accepted the fact, hence I appreciate your "akel-i-saleem" . Momin  
is right in praising your intellectual capabilities.  
 
 

Comments by: Mujeeb On 25 April 2011Report Abuse
Brothert Pervez ! Well done keep it up,Mr Moazzam is a giant devastator ( he is presenting so called DEEN-E-ISLAM)  
He became more dare to Mutilate the 1400 year old established beliefs of Islamic Ummah,because of his false encouragement and un due respect from some Aastana members.Now he is trying to change the sense of Quranic terminologies"YOUM AL QAYAMA/YOUM AL MEHSHER/YOUM AL HISAB/ YOUM –E-YUBASOON "  
HOW DARE HE IS??? All Muslim Ummah is doing good deeds and restrained them self from evils only by fear of standing in front of Allah in YOUM AL QAYAMAH..  
IS HE NOT DECLARED KAFIR WHO DENIES LIFE AFTER DEATH.

Comments by: Nargis2 On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
heyyyy kafir is the one who eat kefir see  
 
http://www.regjeringen.no/upload/LMD/Temabilder/Mat_%20Frukt_Baer_Ost_Egg_Gronsak_Urt/Meieriprodukter/Tine_Kefir_250_F_Tine.jpg  
 
please explain the words you have mentioned, dear musalmaan brother Mujeeb, we will learn from you :)  
 
and please quote Brother Moazzam where he have denied life after death?  
 

Comments by: dawood On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Br. Mujeeb, SA:  
The purpose of this forum is to discuss various shades and meanings of the divine words, sentences, surrahs, etc., based on well established grammatical, linguistic, and TASREEF-E-Ayat principles. It should not bother us what concepts were attached to these words in the past, else we wouldn't be here. If you disagree with Br. Moazzam's presented meanings and concepts, you are welcome to offer your own understanding based on the same standard principles. I would give as much attention to your understanding as I give to other brothers/sisters understanding, provided you present it in a similar logical way, based on the BOOK and the BOOK alone.  
 
Dear brother, declaring someone Kafir is allowing oneself to follow the dead and the beaten mentality called MULLAHISM. I hope you learn to differentiate between the true and the false meanings/concepts when presented to you.

Comments by: Junaid On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
Finally !!!  
We got the FATWA of Mullah Mujeeb Deobandi.  
Brother Moazzam, congrats :)  
At last you are formally included in the list of KAAFIRs :D  
 
Allama Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Allama Perwez and the list goes on...  
 
However I can see one difference here;  
All those people mentioned above got fatwas from graduate molvees, the degree holders and PHDs from mudrassas. I m not sure whether Mullah Mujeeb has a degree or not. I guess a fake degree will be good enough though. Coz it's Pakistan and fake degrees are accepted here :)  
 
 

Comments by: SS On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear All  
The discussion generated on the question of Bro Momin has turned out to be a very informative discussion on time and space.  
We as human beings still do not have enough knowledge about time and space and cannot say for certain what is beyond time and space or what exactly is time and space. In this vast universe we see stars, planets, group of planets revolving around their own world, milky ways, black holes and what not. The Quran represents only what was known 1400 years ago. Reason for this is given that to convey the message to the people of that time only examples and reasons or logic was to be given from what they already knew.  
This point can also be agitated against it. If it was a message from the creator than it should have contained something not known by mankind or beyond the capacity of human knowledge. For example knowledge about the heavenly bodies and how to acquire more knowledge about them and use that knowledge for the prosperity and wellbeing of humanity on this planet. Quran does not contain anything of that sort.  
 
Shariq  

Comments by: Junaid On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
Yes Allah should've told us how to invent a space craft, what kind of fuel to use and how to travel to the other planets.  
Or at least he should've taught us how to invent F-22a and B3 Bombers so that we wouldn't have been getting such bad treatment today, by the hands of Western nations.  
I m thinking brother Shariq, I am thinking why Allah didn't tell us how invent AIDS or Cancer medicines or the time machine or modern Robotics. Perhaps he should've given us instructions regarding manufacturing Ferrari or Lamborghini so that I could've had it here with me :(  
OR may be he should've taught us how to invent a super computer (thinking)  
**(The Quran represents only what was known 1400 years ago.) by SS  
I guess we finally got one person who claims he understood every single word of Quran in it's true form.  
Brother Shariq, Please tell me some more about what Quran says!  
I am trying my level best since last few years to understand the message but unfortunately I couldn't find anyone intelligent and competitive enough to provide the true understanding. How lucky I am that finally I found one scholar who says he s an expert of Quran!!!

Comments by: SS On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
I thought you were a better human being for being a Quranist. But you proved to be like the rusted stuff out there.  
...expert in taunting, ridiculing others when you don't have logic answers. Passing sarcastic remarks for making your presence felt.  
I am disappointed.

Comments by: Junaid On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
Brother Shariq, you think I m being sarcastic?  
What else could you expect from me in reply to such a ridiculous claim of yours?  
Ask any neutral person and he/she will tell you who's trying to make his presence felt with some illogical remarks.  
Ok if you think it's so, please point out things from Quran which got you to the conclusion that it represent what was known 1400 years ago.  
I think you cannot understand or interpret a single word of Quran on your own. What are the basis of your claim?  
Why are you mixing up the fake hadith based material with Quran?  
Secondly, why do you think Quran should tell us about future, instead of focusing on values?Whats the use of human intellect and wisdom then? Whats the point in human struggle and evolution then?  
 
I think you have given your remarks about Quran and it's you who should provide logic to support your claim, not me!  

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear All and Shariq, I think Shiarq is right content of Quran is for sure independent of time and space which means contents/concepts can be understood by people of all era (time) and from any location(space). That’s the logic reason why we can conclude Quran basically is not talking about science as in big bang, Presence of atom, evolution theory, embryology, rain cycle…………..  
 
If these verses which gives glimpses of science which humans were capable of pointing out ONLY after they were presented or proved by scientist. Question is then what was their understanding before these theories or concepts were discovered. Or people 1400 years ago including Mohammed kept it un-understood for future generations to understand those verses??  
 
Nay that could not be the case………….every verse was understood even by people living 1400 years back and not to forget they had but very little understanding of advance science.  
 
TIME and SPACE I think are pretty simple terms, not sure why humans want those to be so complicated!!!!.........Time is just like any other scale ( Temp, distance, capacity ) to measure, not sure what difference it would make if even humans start taking reference of an hour as minute?? And SPACE as in any location whether it be China, Somalia, US, Pakistan, India …………concepts can be understood by all independent of location just need to learn the language ( May I include aliens as well if they exist.)  
 
Philosophers please excuse me as you might not like the idea of above definition for TIME and SPACE…..no this is not a naïve concept, I think I have done decent enough R&D for these terms including Einstein’s theory of relativity of time and time travel. ( I would love to enhance and correct myself for said conceps of Einstein if any can discuss with his R&D.)  
 
Dear Junaid, I think you misunderstood Bro Shariq’s comments, as far as I know him from his posts he is above all those Hadith and all reasons why advance science and regulations are not given in Quran like F22a and B3 bombers. ( Shariq plz correct me if am wrong here.)  
 
Dear Mujeed, Kafir as I understand is the one who does reject a type of ideology, so this term is RELATIVE. If someone is rejecting ideology which is not of my type then I can call him Kafir…..and he can call me Kafir as well as am rejecting his ideology………….if we take it to granular level of understanding as ideologies then I think there are 7 billion different ideologies as you would find 7 billion different opinions.  
 
Dear Momin, sorry for coming in late as you might know my limitations am not so learned and am listening to participants to enhance my understanding over the subject.  
 
With no intension to offend or defend just 2 cents…………  
 
Note : Bazm me awo kisi din, kar ke tum solah shringaar…………EK QAYAMAT waqt se pehle bhi aana chahiye………..  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: moazzam On 26 April 2011
Dear Mujeeb ! Never mind, just read a piece of advice.  
Suppose the traffic department given a book of rules/regulations to drive safely ,and announces the awards to the careful drivers and punishment to the violators at the end of each decade.  
Just consider the Quran as a book of civics traffic rules and regulation to drive your life-car safely on the civics roads keeping in mind the rewards and punishments in life after death also.  
 
WOULD PEOPLE SUFFER DUE TO THEIR WRONG DRIVE, WHAT WIL BE ITS IMMIDIATE CONSIQUENCES???  
SHOULD THERE BE ANY PROCEEDER FOR PROMPT ACOUNTIBILITY AND FAST JUSTICE(youm al hisab) TO RUN THE SYSTEM EFFICIENTLY??  
 
 

Comments by: Junaid On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
**( Dear All and Shariq, I think Shiarq is right) by Mubashir Syed  
**(Dear Junaid, I think you misunderstood Bro Shariq’s comments) by Mubashir Syed  
 
Brother Mubashir, I would request you to please go through the comments once again;  
 
He never said Quran is beyond time and space. Rather he said the opposite;  
 
**(The Quran represents only what was known 1400 years ago. Reason for this is given that to convey the message to the people of that time only examples and reasons or logic was to be given from what they already knew.) by SS  
 
If you agree with this point then you will have to disagree with the fact that Quran is beyond time and space. You will also have to agree with another point that Quran was delivered for people living 1400 years ago and it has got nothing to do with the world of today.  
 
**(This point can also be agitated against it. If it was a message from the creator than it should have contained something not known by mankind or beyond the capacity of human knowledge. For example knowledge about the heavenly bodies and how to acquire more knowledge about them and use that knowledge for the prosperity and wellbeing of humanity on this planet. Quran does not contain anything of that sort.) by SS  
 
Agreeing to this point means you'll have to agree that Quran contains nothing beyond the capacity of human knowledge. How can someone claim that without having a clear understanding of Quran?  
 
I can't say anything about the other posts by Shariq but this one clearly reflects a mindset that we should judge Quran on the basis of our assumptions and declare it a man made book. What other meaning can u derive out of the words "If it was a message from the creator than it should have contained something not known by mankind or beyond the capacity of human knowledge."  
 
If Quran was specifically meant for people who lived 1400 years ago, or if it has got nothing which is beyond the capacity of mankind, what is the purpose behind all the research and analysis then? Why are we wasting out time here when a person claims to know the real depth of this message and tells us that it contains nothing special and all its contents were meant for a civilization which passed away 1400 years ago?  
 
If Quran is not a message from the creator, where else did it come from?  

Comments by: pervez On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
 
Dear brothers and sisters,  
 
1. I am little busy today, have to go somewhere so can not contribute. I have read brother Mujeeb's post.  
Please don't think of imposing fatwas.

Comments by: momin On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear brother Mujeeb,  
 
Brother let us learn with love for each other. There is nothing personal we are discussing.  
We must have love for knowledge, because best life is that which is inspired by love and guided by knowledge.  
I also request brothers and sisters of opposing view to contribute with reason,knowledge and sincerity of purpose,  
not for mental wrestling which Mullah's do. Total nonsense. We must not stick to our views like a wrestler but  
straight away accept what is correct. Let us lower our egos.  
 
 
I must congratulate Comments by: dawood On 26 April 2011. Excellent approach. Dear Mujeeb would  
you please like to read those comments once again. I can't add anything more. Please continue the  
discussion to reach a conclusion. I appreciate your genuine concern but let us get others views and  
contribute in a cordial environment. Let us not come down from the level of our dignified behavior and  
show a conduct unbecoming of a Muslim.Let us look up , not down.  
 
I think discussion should not be dragged to a predetermined end or a held belief. That is an impediment  
to creative thinking. Let anything come out. let us be bold brave and courageous to accept what comes  
out of discussion. Isn't that scientific way . Who is Allah? What is wahi? everything  
discussed in this forum was different to our conventional belief. WE HAVE THE OPTION  
TO BECOME MULLAH OR ACCEPT TRUTH. This journey is on the thorny path. Who dares is the  
question. Mullah's are not only conventional, but any one forcibly dragging the discussion to his held  
belief, getting sentimental, passing fatwas, sarcastic remarks,giving ridiculing statements is a first  
class Mullah.  
 
 
 
 
 
 

Comments by: Junaid On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Brother Momin, I was not participating in this discussion because of two reasons.  
 
1: Due to lack of sufficient knowledge and understanding regarding this particular topic. I would've shared my thoughts if I had the proper knowledge of Quranic ideology pertaining to the concept of life after death or if I had a proper understanding of the magnificent Quran in it's true essence.  
 
2: Because of the fact that I consider myself a useless person who is sitting in his comfort zone, doing nothing and contributing nothing in terms of reforming the society or raising voice against the current system based on injustice, tyranny oppression and inequality. I think I have no right to think about or to expect anything in the next life when I am not doing anything to change the world around me in this life. Whats the point in discussing such thing then?  
 
Anyway this is my personal opinion and I don't mean to offend anyone. However, with all due respect I would like to mention that every discussion has certain limits which needs to be adhered. We all consider ourselves the students of Quran and probably thats why we are here. Respect for Quran should be our primary objective and in fact this is a very sensitive issue. If someone comes in and start denying Quran as a message from the creator, or starts calling it a useless book meant for the people of past, I think I have all the rights to object in whatever way I can. Whether through sarcastic remarks or whether through direct confrontation, coz I am a bit emotional in this regard.  
Just to mention that these emotions does not reflect mullah mentality, rather they reflect my affiliation and my trust in Quran. I hope you'll understand!  
 
FYI;  
Please read the following comments once again.  
 
**(The Quran represents only what was known 1400 years ago. Reason for this is given that to convey the message to the people of that time only examples and reasons or logic was to be given from what they already knew.) by SS  
 
**(If it was a message from the creator than it should have contained something not known by mankind or beyond the capacity of human knowledge. For example knowledge about the heavenly bodies and how to acquire more knowledge about them and use that knowledge for the prosperity and wellbeing of humanity on this planet. Quran does not contain anything of that sort.) by SS  

Comments by: moazzam On 26 April 2011
Dear Participants,Brother Junaid Mr Sharique!  
These emotions does not reflect mullah mentality, rather they reflect my affiliation and my trust in Quran. I hope you'll understand! (junaid)  
Well done appreciable should be on the basis of logics and rationalism.(moazzam)  
**(The Quran represents only what was known 1400 years ago. Reason for this is given that to convey the message to the people of that time only examples and reasons or logic was to be given from what they already knew.) by SS  
 
Respected brothers ALKITAB /QURAN (beyond time and space) possess eternal message.So that any Rasool/Nabi of the time could make his nation understand according to the mental level of his people in that era (moazzam)  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 26 April 2011Report Abuse
I really dont understand the desire to look for scientific revealations in the Quran, when the book stated it is to liberate humans from mental bondages. how will telling people about science that is proven to be true by scientists 1000 years later, how would it impact humanbeing who couldnt confirm the claim to begin with? And are scientist more in the loop than other people, do they understand the Quran better, are they fulfilling the Quraniq goal (take people out from darkness 14.1) more than other humanbeings?  
 
And if Youme Qayama is used to imagine a LIFE after physical death, then its still sayin YOUM,,,its not telling you abou the so called "life"...  
 
 
This life wont mean anything if we guess about the ayas explaination through the orthodox meaning, its just an illusion. Our life will mean anything, something or everything IF WE build up the courage to look for the REAL meaning in the aya's. Let the author of the Quran decide what he wants to convey.

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 27 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Shariq, please find my thoughts inline for your comments  
 
**(The Quran represents only what was known 1400 years ago. Reason for this is given that to convey the message to the people of that time only examples and reasons or logic was to be given from what they already knew.) by SS  
 
Mubashir : Yes I agree Quran represents what was known to Intellect humans from their maturity and content is independent of time and space. Please look into my previous comment for what I understand by TIME and SPACE and would love to discuss further if required…..  
 
Again Bro Shariq though we are at naïve level of interpreting Quran to next higher level please feel free to point any CONCEPT which you think is limited to people 1400 years ago. We can discuss from there on……..  
 
 
**(If it was a message from the creator than it should have contained something not known by mankind or beyond the capacity of human knowledge. For example knowledge about the heavenly bodies and how to acquire more knowledge about them and use that knowledge for the prosperity and wellbeing of humanity on this planet. Quran does not contain anything of that sort.) by SS  
 
Mubashir : Even Humans are from creator and they come into this world through a process, on the same lines Message is from creator though a process( Process being natural and not supernatural). I agree, it does not contain any thing beyond capacity of human knowledge. I think Quran never talks about anything which cant be proved that too not with current advance science. Please get into shoe of humans who lived 1400 years back before justifying or concluding on understanding of a verse. Bib bang theory, shape of earth, Sun centric solar system were not alien theories in those days. These are known from approx 3000 BC………..first philosopher( cant recall his name) who gave this theories was buried with his book ( correct me if am wrong with this info….)  
 
 
Note : Old concepts die hard………If we want to find preconceived ideas from the book in any case then, I think we can anyhow find it………But would be tough to make others understand our preconcieved speculative ideas to the world. And we might get back to same starting point to give reference of Quran as THE ONLY PROOF and plead people to believe in unseen coz my book say so..........phew!!!  
 
With no intension to offend or defend just 2 cents with my current understanding.  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: Junaid On 27 April 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
**(Bib bang theory, shape of earth, Sun centric solar system were not alien theories in those days. These are known from approx 3000 BC………..first philosopher( cant recall his name) who gave this theories was buried with his book) by Mubashir Syed  
 
Brother Mubashir, this information looks quite interesting and it's something new to me. Could you please share some more details if possible?  

Comments by: Junaid On 27 April 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
**(And if Youme Qayama is used to imagine a LIFE after physical death, then its still sayin YOUM,,,its not telling you abou the so called "life"... ) by Nargis2  
 
Sister (2), your point is quite interesting and thought provoking. Let me share my opinion;  
Era is a commonly used word for long period of time.  
Period which has a "start" and definitely an "end" too.  
I am not sure whether "Era" is a suitable word for YAUM or whether there is an appropriate word to translate YAUM in any other language, however assuming that YAUM means Era, what will happen when this ERA ends?  
What comes next?  
Sorry if my question sounds too stupid!  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 27 April 2011Report Abuse
See, if youme qayam means the day of revolution, the day divine orders are to be implemented,  
 
&  
 
یوم الاخرہ means the day when the struggle of momins will end and they will get the desired result.  
 
&  
 
یوم الدین ، means when the way of life with which Human rights is served for all human beings according to divine orders.  
 
What would be the point of implementing laws and orders AFTER our physical death, when it’s God who is implementing them and doing our hisaab kitab?  
 
what "struggle" of momins will end, when its god who is doing everything, i.e. implementing the laws and providing human rights as it was intended in the Quran to begin with?  
 
See, if youme qayama and youme Deen is achieved by momineens of that time, will they have to die physically to get up again, if not, what material are they made of which is different than us, whos already dead and waiting for the big premier?  
 
and if its meant to happen after every human beings physical death, it means Allah himself had to implement it,,,  
 
in other words,,, Quran have basically been a failure, because the orders are not implemented but had to be implemented by Allah himself  
 
If he know we wont be able to bring youme qayama and youme Deen, why did he give us a book to implement orders in the first place..?  
 
Does it make sense at all? Only thing that make sense is to me is,,, it is happening in this life established by people alive in this life,  
 
What will happen to us when we die,,,errm lets lay the foundations for the newcomers,,and reach the bridge when we are there..  
 
 
argg im all confused now, im off byeeeeeeeeeeeee  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 27 April 2011Report Abuse
JUNAID :- Sister (2), your point is quite interesting and thought provoking. Let me share my opinion;  
Era is a commonly used word for long period of time.  
Period which has a "start" and definitely an "end" too.  
I am not sure whether "Era" is a suitable word for YAUM or whether there is an appropriate word to translate YAUM in any other language, however assuming that YAUM means Era, what will happen when this ERA ends?  
What comes next? """------------------------  
 
your brillian question goes with my question,,, if we became homosapiens from neanderthales,,whats next?  
 
One of the meanings of youm is rising of the sun till it's resting (lane),,,so one friend suggested, maybe its a cycle  
 
but if its a period with an end, does it mean whats happening in this period also have to end?  
 
if evolution filters out the weak, is it not possible that the up and downs of nations will lead to strong minded Momin will filter out to be strong enough to complete the orders given in the Quran ?  
 
And is their level of intelligence similar to ours,,,  
 
argg now im more confused, im going to eat an icecream byeeeeee

Comments by: momin On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
Confusion is because of our held belief of life after death. Life before death and after death seems  
same to me. Life basically is consciousness. It survives after death. Hence no death.  
Nargis baity you said,  
 
" What would be the point of implementing laws and orders AFTER our physical death, when it’s God who is implementing them and doing our hisaab kitab? "  
 
This is due to your held belief. How you concluded that, " What would be the point of implementing  
laws and orders AFTER our physical death, when it’s God who is implementing them and doing our  
hisaab kitab? " How do we know what type of life will be there? but certainly will be of consciousness.  
We will have to act for new assignment. Allah will not do anything for us there also as is the case here.  
We might have much tougher assignment. I don't think we will be able to see Allah even after our death.  
Grass can not see animals, animal can not perceive human life, how can human beings perceive Allah.  
All have their own station.We will not be sitting idle there and Allah will serve us with "hoors"  
and what and what not, all rubbish. It is going to be improved more evolved consciousness. We will be  
making efforts there also and may have to fight mullah there also. Why not ? Drama of life will not end  
with death. Now think in this way. So the terminologies in question are applicable to life as a whole before  
and after death.  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
:):)  
 
Dear Manmo, this was meant as a question :-D  
 
" What would be the point of implementing laws and orders AFTER our physical death, when it’s God who is implementing them and doing our hisaab kitab? "  
 
(this question is in relation to the orthodox understanding of "youme qayama", that its goin to happen after our physical death-but it doesnt make sense)  
 
See this is what i found in Lughaat tulo Islam  
 
Qayaam and Qiwaam: (قِيَأمْ) (قِوَأمْ)  
 
- means something with which something can stay resolute and steadfast:  
 
Qiyamah : (قِيَامَة ْ)  
 
- Actually means for a man to stand up at once. Al-qiyamah (اَلْقِيَامَة ْ) makes it a proper noun and indicated that particular moment to take place in which man stands up at once.  
 
Qiyamah:  
 
This is one of the comprehensive and composite terms of the Qur’an: and has many connotations. as mentioned above, Imam Raghib says that it means qiyaam that happens once. The qiyamah of a nation in this world is its renaissance which takes place due to a revolution when a nation stands up suddenly, and the second life after the death of it is a revolutionary thing in itself.  
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::..  
 
If the Quran is talking about qayama after death, then God himself is responsible for it, and he is the one who caused it.  
 
Why is the Quran given to us, if the "revolution" or "qayyam" of nations are caused by God and not "momineens"?  
 
Is the Quran here just to inform us about being nice or else youme qayama will happen?  
 
According to the meaning or these words, it is about everyone getting their reward/punishment according to their actions,but its initiated by Allah himself (because its going to happen in life after death)  
 
so If God is the one who is going to do what he asks humans to do in the Quran, why not do it by himself in the first place?  
 
If Quran says youm qayama( time of establishment of deen, time or revolution, time of insaaf) is going to happen after life after death, then why tell us to establish Deen Salaat and work hard for the opressed to get their haq and rights?  
 
Its hard to explain what i mean :(:( Brother moaaaazammm where are youuuuuuuuuuuuu?  
 

Comments by: Nargis2 On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
Have a look at this verse  
 
And they say, what! When we have become bones and dust shall we indeed be raised up a new creation. Say thou: Be ye stones or iron or a substance still more improbable in your hearts (to be restored to life). But they will say: Who shall bring us back? Say thou: He who brought you into being for the first time ( The Quraan, 17: 49-51)  
 
which group of people was Rusool Allah talking to?  
 
Christians, jews, ummi's, pagans?  
 
which one of them didnt have the concept of life after death in their own religion, since they were sooo surprised about this " new" information from S Mohammed?  
 
"we shall not die any other than our first death" (The Quraan, 37: 57-58).  
 
If there is only one death thats goin to get us, then what is the difference between mout and almout?

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Junaid and All, my apologies as info provided was not exact as I vaguely remembered the data. I remembered that it was before Islamic era but was not sure of year. Its NOT 3000 BC its around 300 BC ( Am growing old……smiley ).  
 
In 5th century BC Anaxagoras was first person to say moon only reflects sunlight and stars are hot stones like sun and are far away from earth so they don’t warm earth.  
 
Philolaus in 5th century BC was the first to suggest that the earth orbited the sun not vice versa.  
 
 
Eratosthenes born in 276 BC in present day libya was first person  
1. To calculate circumference of earth.  
2. Calculated circumference of moon as well and gave size as one fourth of earth.  
3. Distance of moon from earth.  
 
In 3rd century, 310 BC Aristarchus  
1. Calculated size of sun and its distance from earth.  
2. Explained concept of earths revolution around sun.  
3. Explained concept of earth rotation in 24 hours which is the reason for day and night.  
 
I was unable to get accurate info on Big bang theory not sure about the source where it came to my knowledge am hunting for it. Possibly It was from Philosophers like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle or any of that chain in 5th century BC might have presented theory with logic speculation and not with explanation/proof. I will let you know when I have information handy. Sorry for inconvenience, any help from participants would be appreciated.  
 
Big bang theory with explanation and possible proof started from 17th century.  
 
Note : Any researched based correction in above data would be appreciated, eagerly waiting to correct myself……….  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: William On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
 
Dear Momin,  
 
The Quran is a guide to mankind for this life; all details and instructions on how to set up an ideal society is contained therein. What is beyond this life has not been disclosed and therefore is subject to speculation.  
 
The Quran provides details, Instructions and laws. The society that implements such a prescription shall reap the benefits of the system (which is during this life).  
 
I think what Nargis is trying to say is that if “youme qayama” is to happen after death, then the creator would take ownership to ensure all processes are managed and are in operation as intended.  
 
However, as the Quran is for the betterment of mankind; to take it out of the darkness into the light, liberating humans from mental bondage, “youme qayama” would make more sense as an event that occurs due to the efforts and hardship of the momineen.  
 
“youme qayama” could therefore be an event that transforms society; its practices and procedures, the lifestyle of its citizens – a positive reform for the whole state. A revolution!  
 

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
Forgot to add info on shape of earth...............  
 
In 6th century BC Pythagoras proposed spherical shape of earth, which again was advanced by Aristotle in 3rd century BC.  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: moazzam On 28 April 2011
Dear Participants! Sister Nargis and William have concrete based comprehension of the Quranic terms “YAUM AL QIYAMAH”, “YAUM ADDIN”, “YAUM AL HISAB” Well done.  
 
To understand the real sense of the said Quranic terms let me quote some very basics, please go through the following points.  
1) Read the Surah “FATEHA”, mankind seeking / asking guidance from مَالِكِ يَوْمِ الدِّينِ  
for successful living with the target of establishing YAUM ADDIN / ISLAMIC STATE in THIS WORLD (LIFE BEFORE DEATH)  
2) go to the verse 2/123 while keeping the term مَالِكِ يَوْمِ الدِّينِ of Surah fateha here you will find the word “YAUMAN" in fact that is same YOUM ADDIN (should be before death)  
وَاتَّقُواْ يَوْماً لاَّ تَجْزِي نَفْسٌ عَنْ نَّفْسٍ شَيْئاً وَّلاَ يُقْبَلُ مِنْهَا شَفَاعَةٌ وَّلاَ يُؤْخَذُ مِنْهَا عَدْلٌ وَّلاَ هُمْ يُنصَرُونَ2/123  
3) Go to the verse 2/113, note, who is at right path and who is wrong ,if decision comes after death , then what a use? is there any benefit of such a declaration to a truth seeker (who is asking Allah to show him right path)  
Logically, decision should be here in this life, the sense of YAUM AL QIYAMA should be taken as the time period when Islamic state merges into being (before death).  
وَقَالَتِ الْيَهُودُ لَيْسَتِ النَّصَارَى عَلَى شَيْءٍ وَقَالَتِ النَّصَارَى لَيْسَتِ الْيَهُودُ عَلَى شَيْءٍ وَهُمْ يَتْلُ  
ونَ الْكِتَابَ كَذَلِكَ قَالَ الَّذِينَ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ مِثْلَ قَ  
وْلِهِمْ فَاللّهُ يَحْكُمُ بَيْنَهُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ فِيمَا كَانُواْ فِيهِ يَخْتَلِفُونَ  
 
4) Read the verse 2/62 carefully,  
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَالَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَالنَّصَارَى وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحاً فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلاَ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ  
 
All the terminologies used in this verse is related to life before death (herein).  
AAMANA BILLAH = who is peaceful with the commandment of Allah.  
YAUM AL AAKHIR = makafat-e amal in this world (before death)  
AMILA SALIHAN = Good deeds in this world (before death)  
AJRUHUM INDA RABBI HIM = Reward with the Islamic established state.  
5) Now read the verse 2/177  
لَّيْسَ الْبِرَّ أَن تُوَلُّواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَلَـكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَالْمَلآئِكَةِ وَالْكِتَابِ وَال  
نَّبِيِّينَ وَآتَى الْمَالَ عَلَى حُبِّهِ ذَوِي  
الْقُرْبَى وَالْيَتَامَى وَالْمَسَاكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَالسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِي الرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ الصَّلاةَ وَآتَى الزَّكَاةَ وَالْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عَاهَدُواْ وَالصَّابِرِينَ فِي الْبَأْسَاءِ وَالضَّرَّاءِ وَحِينَ الْبَأْسِ أُولَـئِكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَأُولَـئِكَ هُمُ الْمُتَّقُونَ  
Please focus at all the terminologies mentioned in the said verse.  
AAMAN BILLAH = peaceful with the commandment of Allah (with the Islamic state).  
YAUM AL AAKHIR = Makafat-e amal  
If all commandments/ attrebuts/ terminologies are related to life before death, then why only “YAUM AL AAKHIRAH means the day after death???  

Comments by: Nargis On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
brother moazzam said :-  
 
If all commandments/ attrebuts/ terminologies are related to life before death, then why only “YAUM AL AAKHIRAH means the day after death???  
 
EXACTLYYYYYYYY  
 
Just HIT the nail on the head, bang on  
 
I was just about to throw a fat fatwah on you for not allowing you to leave this building, but you came back in black, oh sorry i mean in green :-D  
 
Uncle Dr Qamar said somewhere  
 
""There are other words like یوم ا لقیا مہ،الساعہ which also mean the same eg  
یوم ا لقیا مہ، means when the laws according to divine orders are implemented.  
and الساعہ means the moment when change takes place  
In my humble opinion all these events are from this world ad not from the world outside this earth.There are certain reasons and arguments in support,  
 
The basic concept of the life in this world and the world after should be made very clear.  
الحیاۃ الد نیا is a life which has a worldly qualities .If it is translated as Life of this world then it will be a wrong translation.because الحیاۃ الد نیا is compound called مرکب توصیفی  
having a noun and an adjective.  
الد نیا is quality of الحیاۃ …….so الحیاۃ الدنیا means a life of low standard.  
If the compound is حیاۃ الاخرہ then it will mean life of the world.  
So one has to be very clear about the rules of the Arabic grammar while translating. "  
 
thædææ

Comments by: Damon On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Respected Aastana Family,  
 
Brother Moazzam already pointed out 2/123. Two other verses to examine are 2/48 and 57/15. These three verses (which are only three of MANY such verses) describe the denial/refusal of ransoming for one's nafs. 3/91 specifically says even the ransoming of a mountainload of gold will not help the criminals during the time of reckoning.  
 
The orthodox muslims believe that these verses (among others) describe people trying to bargain with Allah and offer ransoms of gold and other offers in order to save themselves.  
 
The questions to be asked are WHO would offer a ransom of gold to Allah on such an occasion and WHAT would Allah, (The Creator, The Provider, The Nourisher, Sustainer, The Rich, The One Who Feeds but is not Fed) need for such a thing? HOW would someone even THINK that they can ransom a useless earthly thing with Allah?  
 
It is quite obvious to me that those verses are describing the behaviour of the criminals in this earthly life once the Dawn of Reckoning falls upon them. It is only in such a situation that these people would try to offer OTHER HUMAN BEINGS gold and ransom in hopes of worming their butt's out of what's coming to them. And only human beings stand to gain from accepting such ransom...NOT ALLAH.  
 
I am in agreement with William, Nargis and Moazzam in that the Quranic Terms Yaumul Qiyyamah, Yaumul Akhira, Yaumu-e-Deen and Yaumul Hisaab are describing the Quranic Revolution in this earthly life. And just to clarify I DO NOT DENY life and/or a destination after death.  
 
Concerning life after death, as far as my studies have taken me, I think we are only reminded that Allah will call all of us human beings to account. Please see 2/284, 13/40-41, 15/92, 16/46-47, 16/56, 16/93, 19/94, 21/47, 33/39, 40/21-22, 65/8 and 88/26 among others.  
 
And then there are the ayaat that remind us that we come from Allah, that we shall return to Him and unto Him is the final goal. Please see 5/18, 2/223, 2/156 and 2/46 among other ayaats describing the same.  
 
But I believe that we will not know what the ultimate outcome and destiny is UNTIL we cross that particular bridge.  
 
Fee 'Amanillah,  
Damon.

Comments by: moazzam On 28 April 2011
 
WELL DONE BROTHER DAMON. The FIRM BELIEF IN ACCOUNTABILITY and FEAR of execution of decree after due course of quick justice process, RESTRAIN THE CULPRITS from wrong doing. Not the MULLAHS DOGMAS OF SCORPIONS AND SNAKES IN GRAVE (might facing after death).  
"The questions to be asked are WHO would offer a ransom of gold to Allah on such an occasion and WHAT would Allah, (The Creator, The Provider, The Nourisher, Sustainer, The Rich, The One Who Feeds but is not Fed) need for such a thing? HOW would someone even THINK that they can ransom a useless earthly thing with Allah? (demon)  

Comments by: Mujeeb On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
Mr Moazzam ! there are so many books available in print media like MARNEY KE BAAD KIYA HOGA, MAOT KA MANZAR , PULL SIRAAT, SNAKES OF JAHANNAMS etc. I my self have read the book MAOT KA MANZAR. I mean what problem you may have with such a materials which is helpful to restrain the people from evils/ wrong doing if you don't believe life after death ?????LET THE PEOPLE DO THEIR JOB IF THERE IS NOT ANY HARM FOR YOU-LIKE PEOPLE.

Comments by: aurangzaib On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Brother Momin,  
 
My sincere apologies for not responding to your calls for participation. Have actually been badly occupied with harsh and crude physical realities of the phenomenal world, as they call it. And that had left me with no time to indulge in intellectual discourse of any kind.  
 
The thread you initiated has already expanded to a formidable length and to venture in order to explore into the essence of it proved to be a daunting task for a new entrant of very humble origins like this friend of yours.  
 
(1) It started with…..”some specific time spans”…..quoted in Quran, which you wished to be explained to reach a satisfactory conclusion about them.  
 
(2) Later on, leaving that issue aside, the discussion entered into the question of the existence - or otherwise - of “the Hereafter”.  
 
(3) Another ‘paradigm shift’ diverted the discussion in the direction of Quran as being an eternal Guidance or just “something” for the people who lived 1400 years ago!  
 
Now my “tuppence” on these issues:  
 
(1)  
Let us start with your opening Quranic references which are  
 
47/22 (“JUST LIKE” One thousand years – کاْلف سنۃ),  
 
70/4 (“As if its time span be fifty thousand years” – کان مقدارہ خمسین اْلف سنۃ ),  
 
17/52 (“And you “imagine” that you have not lived except for a little time –و تظنّون۔۔۔۔۔ ),  
 
10/45 (“As if” they had not lived except an hour of the day - کاْن لم یلبثوا الا ساعۃ من النھار ) and  
 
23/113 (They will say, we lived a day or part of a day).  
 
In the first two Verses, “some exaggerations” have been made in the time periods to emphasize a point. Very clearly, use of “ک “ and “کان “ in the first two Verses convert the sentences into similes rather than having literal meanings; HENCE, the time spans given are just “examples” (not the real ones) showing a “considerable” length of time for the “results to appear”. A time taken by the waiting people for something too long – - which may not actually be that long! For example see 70/5-7, which, after specifying the period of 50,000 years as a simile (70/4), does say that “Just you wait and remain steadfast in a beautiful way; they see it as distant, but We see it happening soon”.  
 
The latter three verses are also in similes and they exercise some exaggeration in the opposite direction to make the assertion that a life span is too short in comparison with the span of the Hereafter, as the concepts of time and space would be radically altered therein (یوم تبدل الارض غیر الارض و السمٰوٰت ). This style of “simile” is apparent by the use of “و تظنّون “ in Verse No.17/52. “Zann” means “to imagine, to speculate, to have an illusion, etc.”  
 
So, let us not count “years” or “days” in these Verses, but take them in metaphorical sense. And that may answer most of the questions arising from their wrong literal translations.  
 
(2)  
HEREAFTER.  
I may not resort to further brainstorming on this issue after so many intellectuals have expressed their opinions. But let me reproduce some thoughts from Iqbal, the super Quranic intellectual of his time:-  
 
زندگی کی آگ کا انجام خاکستر نہیں ٹوٹنا جس کا مقدر ہو یہ وہ گوہر نہیں  
آہ غافل موت کا راز نہاں کچھ اور ہے نقش کی ناپائیداری سے عیاں کچھ اور ہے  
موت کے ہاتھوں سے مٹ سکتا اگر نقش حیات عام یوں اس کو نہ کر دیتا نظام کائنات جوہر انسان عدم سے آشنا ہوتا نہیں آنکھ سے غائب تو ہوتا ہے فنا ہوتا نہیں  
یہ نکتہ میں نے سیکھا بوالحسن سے کہ جاں مرتی نہیں مرگ بدن سے  
چمک سورج میں کیا باقی رہے گی اگر بیزار ہو اپنی کرن سے  
تو اسے پیمانہ امروز و فردا سے نہ ناپ جاوداں، پیہم رواں، ہر دم جواں ہے زندگی  
موت تجدید مذاق زندگی کا نام ہے خواب کے پردے میں بیداری کا اک پیغام ہے  
موت کو سمجھے ہیں غافل اختتام زندگی ہے یہ شام زندگی صبح دوام زندگی  
 
And look at this sarcasm by God Himself:-  
 
45/24: ما ھی الا حیاتنا الدنیا نموت و نحیا و ما یہلکنا الا الدھر قالو  
(They say! What is life except the “life of the physical world”; we die just as we become alive; nothing kills us except the passage of time”!)  
 
Isn’t that “sarcasm” or “exclamation” enough to prove that whatever is being quoted is the opposite of truth. And the truth is that we “do not actually die with our physical death”!  
 
 
11/108: And they will live “there” for ever ما دامت السمٰوٰت و الارض “as long as the Celestial bodies and the Earth continue to exist”.  
 
What’s that “there”? Surely some place other than the Earth and the Samawaat……isn’t it? May be….! But there is a sure guarantee of a life of billions of years’ long! Equal to that of the Universe itself! Perhaps some life form having no relation with physical bodies or physical existence! ----------About the “form”, I think, we can just speculate!  
Brother Abdun, in his “servantof thelight” has defined that form in his style, in the terminology of ‘quantum physics’ - very elaborately indeed and with great eloquence!  
 
Some other verses to be scanned about Hereafter are as under; it may not always be easy to apply their meanings to the present world alone:-  
JANNAT: 4/57; 4/122, 169; 5/119, 9/21; 9/100; 18/3; 64/9; 65/11, 98/8  
HELL: 11/107, 33/64, 62/23.  
 
SOME QUESTIONS IN MY MIND ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE:-  
 
I don’t know when the Judgment Day ‘in the world’ would finally appear?  
It would sure appear in some part of the world, IF IT APPEARED!  
Why would it judge only a small part of the humanity?  
What would people living in other parts be doing at that time? Watching/waiting?  
How will that Judgment Day of the “World” affect their lives?  
Why would there be no Judgment in their territories?  
When the Judgment Day/Youm al-Qiyamat did appear in Arabia 1400 years ago, people in other parts of the world were still suffering miseries and calamities by the hands of humans! Even in Arabia, abt.40 years later, tyranny had started ruling again! That partial QIYAMAT/JUDGMENT was ruined within ‘no time’?  
Was that a tangible result of that Qayamat, that Judgment Day?  
Is that kind of Judgment Day sufficient, friends, to remedy human sufferings?  
If not, is that then a satisfactory interpretation of Quranic injunctions?  
 
I would recommend leaving the “theory of the Judgment Day” to the Hereafter, intact!  
 
 
 
(3)  
The theory about Quran, presented by a participant, as highlighted by many of our participants, was clearly alien to the basic curriculum of aastana. It requires a discussion in a quite different MANNER and on different basis. The theory smacks of Atheism as the next step (It’s my opinion, no offense meant). And it has not been substantiated by solid arguments.  
However, that was an opinion and one can always express an opinion here. Brother Junaid’s reply was enough to repudiate that theory effectively.  
 
What I can think about this issue is like this: Humanity is frantically looking for the guidance that may transform its being; that may bring about peace, harmony, security and equality in basic rights to live. Quran is being explored here in that perspective, on scientific lines, in order to ascertain whether it fulfills the needs of the time. The more we discover it, the more solution-oriented it portrays itself.  
We are indeed driven to optimism by the results of that exploration.  
Quran gives us those values, ideals and principles upon which we can build the noblest of characters for humanity.  
 
Quran is not a book of science and technology, or of economic and agricultural policies, or of health care and nutrition requirements. Why should we expect Quran to teach us all those things?  
 
It is the CHARACTER that will be needed, until the last day of life on this globe, to implement any system/constitution/ideology/policy/manifesto that is meant to emancipate humanity from all the ills surrounding it. Let those who don’t believe in divine Guidance know that all the virtues known throughout the stretch of this earth, have originally emanated from that Guidance alone. Men of character have invariably followed the divine tenets. The existence of ancient and relatively recent Scriptures is enough proof of that. And we don’t talk of those parts of some Scriptures which contain human inputs. And we don’t talk of that stuff which is declared divine by humans. And we don’t talk as well about the traditional translations or misinterpretations of Quran or other Scriptures that offer food for skeptics.  
 
There is a lot of bloodshed and exploitation perpetrated by those who assume themselves to be on the highest level of “human development and intellectual evolution”; and there is endless lust in their characters for domination and superiority over the weaker segments of human population. All those “developed ones” have actually turned into animals of prey by their inhuman greed. They terribly need Quranic Guidance to become peaceful humans.  
 
If we reject the eternity of scriptural values, where would we learn from?  
A man is not apt to follow another man! No human can deliver a final verdict about other humans or about virtues or solutions. Man’s knowledge is grossly inadequate. Let none think that there is no more knowledge for them to gain. The depth of human intellect may be measured; the works of human authors may be mastered; but the highest, deepest, broadest flight of the imagination cannot find out God. There is infinity beyond all that we can comprehend. Whatever may be humanity’s intellectual advancement, let no one for a moment think that there is no need of thorough and continuous searching of the Scriptures for greater light. We must watch with earnestness that we may discern any ray of light which God shall present to us.  
 
And when people, compassed with human infirmities, affected in a greater or less degree by surrounding influences, and having hereditary and cultivated tendencies which are far from making them wise or heavenly-minded, undertake to arraign the Word of God, and to pass judgment upon what is divine and what is human, they are working without the counsel of God. The effect will be disastrous upon the one engaged in it.  
 
God bless all.  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
Brother Mujeeb-Pull sirat? :S Are you kidding?  
 
Do you mean these f#¤%#% up stories need to stay alive because weak people get scared of them? Do you have any statistics on people who are nice because they are afraid of such stories?  
 
Only problem for now is that you have appointed yourself to issue fatwas, and that you cannot find it weird that lies are used to mislead people with less knowledge.  
 
You also encourage Brother moazzam to withstand the lie which is in fact a mental disease contributing immobility by spreading fright in peoples heart.  
 
Yes brother Mujeeb, fear develops into a disease that blocks all unpolluted, free sound and wide-ranging thoughts that enter into one's common sense- despite the fact that these thoughts and the signals are from the Creator's creation…  
 
If God have given everyone eyes,ears senses mind what so ever, why dont you let them use it? Why are not other people worthy of the luxury you take pleasure in and exploit to the fullest?  
 
Who has given you authority to protect such lies and designate yourself as superior enough to manage the truth to suit your needs?  
 
You can read and write is not it? Do you use to read the Quran in a wrong way to someone who can’t read or do not have the opportunity to learn it, just to serve your personal judgment of right and wrong (or what should or should not be in the Quran)? Are you abusing the facility that you have acquired? Does it makes you feel like a King?  
 
The truth is for everyone,but its sad that liars may find it first...  
 
You mentioned Pull Sirat, can you add this information to your “mout ka manzars” when you share it with others plz  
"""  
The dawn after the third night after death is considered a great and solemn occasion. As we said above, the soul of a man remains within the precincts of this world for three days. On the dawn after the third night it goes to the other world. The soul passes over a bridge called Chinwad.The Chinwad Bridge reminds one of the "Sirat" of the Arabs, of "Wogho" of the Chinese, the "Giöell" and "Bifröst" of the Scandinavians. For a similar belief of the Ancient Egyptians, vide my paper, "The Belief about the future of the Soul among the Ancient Egyptians and Iranians" (Journal B.B.R.A.S. XX, pp. 156-199. My "Asiatic Papers," pp. 137-146). http://www.avesta.org/ritual/funeral.htm#n30  
 
"(The soul) goes to the holy Chinwad Bridge created by Mazda, which is an old path of times immemorial, and which is for the wicked as well as for the holy. There they ask the soul (to account) for its deeds done in this material world." http://www.avesta.org/vendidad/vd19sbe.htm  
 
We are given in figurative language by Zarathushtra the image of  
a bridge, called Chinvat [Chinwad], literally 'of the dividing one',  
that connects this world with the unseen world, and serves as a  
medium to cross the deep chasm that separates the two. Page 82  
 
CHINWAD/ PULL SIRAT  
http://217.121.182.22/Books%20Many%20Books%20in%20pdf/History%20of%20Zoroastrianism%201938.pdf  
 
 
 

Comments by: naeem sheikh On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear mujeeb ! BY FOLLOWING THE MULLAH'S RELIGION  
YOU MAY CRASS THE PULL SIRAAT, WARE EVER /WHAT SOEVER IT IS.  
YOU MAY BE RESCUED FROM NAAR-E-JAHANNAM WARE EVER /WHAT SOEVER IT IS.  
YOU MAY BE ENTERED IN PARADISE WARE EVER / WHAT SOEVER IT IS.  
BUT YOUR SUCCESS IN LIFE BEFORE DEATH WILL REMAIN DOUBTFUL  
 
 
WALK ON SIRAAT AL MUSTAQEEM (FOLLOW THE QURAN)  
YOU WILL DEFINITELY ENJOY JANNAT NAZEER ZINDAGY  
YOU WILL DEFFINITELY RESCUDE FROM JAHANNAM NAZEER ZINDAGY  
Brother moazzam is right in his stance  

Comments by: momin On 28 April 2011Report Abuse
My Dear respectable sister UmeiAiman, brother Damon and Aurangzeb,  
 
I was thinking how a divine book which aims at improving human life could neglect a very powerful  
human desire to live for ever. Human history is witness to the fact that human beings stumbled in the path  
of its achievement. How could a book aimed at solving human problems doesn't talk about it. Why those  
people never questioned about life after death from their Nabi.  
 
What is the purpose of life? Why the book doesn't speak about it? Is it establishment of a welfare state?  
Is it a purpose of life? No, it can't be. I read all the books of Allama Pervez who said, the purpose of life is  
development of personality. Iqbal said, Khoodi ki nasho nama, which is the same. Developed human self  
will be worthy of better life after death. Your personality nourishes by giving and you body by taking. So  
with this motivation an individual should participate in establishment of a welfare state (salat). Hence,  
establishment of a welfare state is clearly a means to achieve a greater end.  
 
Terminologies such as youm al Qayama and so on have been correctly interpreted by baity Nargis and  
brother Moazzam. With the coming of a new prophet in a Nation Renaissance period or era starts.  
Which is youmal yabasoon. When Jesus came it was youmal Qayama for jewish Nation. When  
Prophet Muhammad came again it was Qayama. Those who follow the new Prophet become  
spiritually alive. Those who reject are dead. This process is to continue.  
 
Quran does clearly talks of our life after death. Brother Damon has mentioned certain referances  
and made my job easy, such as  
 
"Concerning life after death, as far as my studies have taken me, I think we are only reminded that Allah will call all of us human beings to account. Please see 2/284, 13/40-41, 15/92, 16/46-47, 16/56, 16/93, 19/94, 21/47, 33/39, 40/21-22, 65/8 and 88/26 among others.  
 
And then there are the ayaat that remind us that we come from Allah, that we shall return to Him and unto Him is the final goal. Please see 5/18, 2/223, 2/156 and 2/46 among other ayaats describing the same. "  
 
Similarly, brother Aurangzeb has also mentioned following ayats,and further facilitated my job.  
 
Some other verses to be scanned about Hereafter are as under; it may not always be easy to apply their meanings to the present world alone:-  
JANNAT: 4/57; 4/122, 169; 5/119, 9/21; 9/100; 18/3; 64/9; 65/11, 98/8  
HELL: 11/107, 33/64, 62/23.  
 
My special thanks to brother Aurangzeb who accepted my invitation and participated with in depth knowledge  
on the subject.  
 
Dear baity Nargis, I am amazed at your power of reasoning and knowledge of Quran while eating ice cream  
at such a small age. Frankly , speaking I feel very small before you that a baba near completion of century  
of age knows nothing. "MAIRI BUCHI JEETI RAHO, cough...cough....hands trembling....  
 
Last but not the least a verse on my behalf,  
 
 
SHAIR KI NAWA HO K MOGHANI KA NAFES HO  
 
JIS SAI CHAMMAN AFSOORDA HO WO BAD-I-SABA KIA  
 
Now I can die with hope to meet you all again.  
 
ISSI ROZO SHAB MAI OOLUJ KER NA RAH JA  
 
K TAIRAY ZAMAN-O-MAKAN AOR B HAIN.  
 
 
QURAN GIVES US GUARANTEE OF LIFE AFTER DEATH.  
 

Comments by: pervez On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear all,  
 
Very interesting and fruitful discussion. My friend Aurangzeb's contribution is commendable.

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
My Concerns:  
 
1. If Quran gives guarantee of life after death, how this would be conveyed to people who are not born with Quran in their hands. Will we be saying u have to believe coz my book say so ????  
 
2. If something is written in a divine book of a sector and it has to be true then why not concept of Rebirth??? Coz my book never say so?? Or as my preconceived idea is not of rebirth, if it would have been then we could have found Rebirth in Quran???  
 
3. What about those who die young or infants without getting to maturity?? Are they blessed one’s who would get bounties of life after death??? If this is true then do we need to be happy for all kids who die/killed at young age??  
 
I think speculation of life after death should be personal opinion and not be tied up with ISLAM as haqq. Quran Never talks about anything which cant be comprehended by humans.  
 
Note: No one wants to die but everyone wants to go to heaven………when latter cant be achieved before former. On same lines can we be rational by not leaving preconceived ideas?  
 
With no intension to offend or defend few concerns of an enthusiastic childish guy……….  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: Damon On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Respected Aastana Family,  
 
I second Brother Pervez that this is indeed a very good and fruitful discussion and I think that we ALL stand to learn and benefit from the exchange of views and understandings.  
 
I wish to first make a couple of things very clear so that my personal stance and views on this issue are not misunderstood. I agree with Moazzam, Nargis and William that the terms Yawmul Qiyyama, Yawmul Yuba'thoon, Yawmul Akhira, Yawmul Hisaab and Yawm-e-Deen ARE NOT describing the hereafter or life after death. I am of the belief that these terms are describing a "Worldly" event in this present life and I believe that event to be "The Quranic Revolution" be it in one society, two societies, a handful of societies, half the globe or the entire world. And rather it happens in stages or overnight. I personally believe that the arguments and questions Nargis and Moazzam have presented throughout this thread are enough to prove such if pondered upon with the appropriate mindset.  
 
HOWEVER......I also wish to make it clear that I "personally" believe in what I like to call "Ultimate Destiny" which is when we die and RETURN to Allah. WHAT HAPPENS and TO WHOM when we do go back to "That Source of All Things" remains to be seen and we will not know for sure UNTIL we do go back to Allah. Other than that, all we can offer concerning our destinies after death would be mere speculation. Because it would be mere speculation to offer scenarios and explanations of life after death, I believe it to be more prudent to "focus" on the here and now which is something we have more control over and which is also "concrete" and "tangible". I do agree with one poster here who quoted Allama Parvez that one of the "purposes" of our existence is "Tazkiya An-Nafs" which can loosely be translated as "Cultivation or Pruning of the SELF". This Tazkiya An-Nafs is what prepares us for our return to Allah and hopefully our destiny will be a favorable one after physical death. I just wanted to make those few things clear on my end.  
 
Now having said these things, I do want to address Aurangzaib's post which he has made recently.  
 
AURANGZAIB: Some other verses to be scanned about Hereafter are as under; it may not always be easy to apply their meanings to the present world alone:-  
JANNAT: 4/57; 4/122, 169; 5/119, 9/21; 9/100; 18/3; 64/9; 65/11, 98/8  
HELL: 11/107, 33/64, 62/23.  
 
DAMON: Dear brother, it is quite easy for me to apply their meanings to the present world alone and not the hereafter. In fact, it is just as easy for me to apply their meanings to the present world alone as it is for others to apply their meanings to the hereafter...and for the same reason, and that is the "mindset". What I mean by this is that one's intellectual pre-disposition will determine HOW they will understand the verses you have posted. The key for me is the following question; does my understanding of these verses to apply to the present world alone go against any of the rules of grammar, linguistics and/or logic? My answer is no. After reading your post and looking up these verses, I have come to the conclusion that the Arabic grammar and logic are not infringed upon when understanding these verses in the manner that I do understand them. So I believe it basically boils down to approaching these verses with the "present world" mindset or the "life after death" mindset. Please keep in mind that I am NOT saying that your understanding is incorrect and my understanding is correct. I am merely stating that we "differ" on these verses because we "differ" in intellectual approach to them.  
 
AURANGZAIB: I don’t know when the Judgment Day ‘in the world’ would finally appear?  
 
DAMON: No, we don't know, but that does not absolve us of our duties to strive in order to make that Judgement Day in the world appear, be it globally or in less than globally. It is up to us to "implement" the mandates of The Quran bring about the Judgement Day we seek. 61/11, 49/15, 9/88, 9/81, 9/41, 9/24, 9/20, 9/19, 8/74, 8/72, 5/54, 5/35, 4/95, 2/218, 22/78, 29/69, 22/41.  
 
AURANGZAIB: It would sure appear in some part of the world, IF IT APPEARED!  
 
DAMON: Yes, but we cannot wait for the "religious concept" of God to cast "His Judgement" on humanity and bring this revolution about. It would appear in whatever part of the world The Quran is properly implemented with "True Conviction". It has not been implemented yet because there aren't enough people who have the true conviction needed to bring it about. We need active people with Eemaan (i.e. a firm belief or conviction) along with Amaal-e-Saliha (the Righteous Deeds). Until then, nothing changes for us. We will remain in our present predicament. 13/11, 8/53.  
 
AURANGZAIB: Why would it judge only a small part of the humanity?  
 
DAMON: That would only be due to The Quranic Revolution taking place among a small part of humanity. But once the revolution has been started, we mustn't be satisfied with just that small part of humanity. We must keep striving so that the revolution spreads like a wildfire and do not stop until we succeed in ridding the world of all tyranny and corruption. It is a handful of corrupt people that is corrupting and terrorizing the entire globe. If they as a limited number of human beings can come together and acquire the needed power to unjustly rule the world, then WE can do the SAME THING in order to dethrone them and start the global healing process. Please see 22/41 and 23/96.  
 
AURANGZAIB: What would people living in other parts be doing at that time? Watching/waiting?  
 
DAMON: I hope my statement above can satisfy this question.  
 
AURANGZAIB: How will that Judgment Day of the “World” affect their lives?  
 
DAMON: By making the "World" a more just and comfortable planet to inhabit. Where all are treated with dignity and respect. Where no one is mistreated and whoever needs help the most gets the most help. Please see Surah 110.  
 
AURANGZAIB: Why would there be no Judgment in their territories?  
 
DAMON: I believe my earlier statments would satisfy to answer this question.  
 
AURANGZAIB: When the Judgment Day/Youm al-Qiyamat did appear in Arabia 1400 years ago, people in other parts of the world were still suffering miseries and calamities by the hands of humans! Even in Arabia, abt.40 years later, tyranny had started ruling again! That partial QIYAMAT/JUDGMENT was ruined within ‘no time’?  
Was that a tangible result of that Qayamat, that Judgment Day?  
 
DAMON: This is a two part question. To answer the first part, I ask that you refer to my earlier statements above concerning The Quranic Revolution happening ONLY in that part of the world in which there are Muslimeen and Mumineen striving to set up the Just Quranic Society and Constitution. So OUR MISSION is to EDUCATE the entire globe and INVITE the entire globe to join our efforts. The MORE people and parts of the world WE reach, the BETTER the chances to start a global wide Quranic Revolution. I believe Surah 110 applies to this scenario as well.  
 
To answer the second part of your question; this is due to the people NOT "staying the course". I had said in one my statements earlier that once we establish Quranic rule in any given society, we MUST NOT be "content" and think that we have arrived and have performed our duty to the fullest. Once "established", the Quranic Society and Revolution needs to be maintained, refined and expanded. It is like a fire. You must constantly feed the fire otherwise it will go out. THIS is where the people of 7th Century Arabia went wrong. They started a fire and assumed that it will burn continuously without them having to constantly feed the fire and fan the flames.  
 
AURANGZAIB: Is that kind of Judgment Day sufficient, friends, to remedy human sufferings?  
 
DAMON: It IS sufficient provided it meets the following two objectives;  
One, it must be properly MAINTAINED and two it must be EXPANDED until it blankets all of humanity.  
 
AURANGZAIB: If not, is that then a satisfactory interpretation of Quranic injunctions?  
 
DAMON: Hopefully every response I provided in this post can all combine to answer the final question above.  
Do not despair and do not give up hope. Please see 3/139.  
 
Fee 'Amanillah,  
Damon.  

Comments by: bob On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear brothers  
 
How does the Quran provide proof of life after death as the Quran stipulates that proof and evidence are necessary in order to ascertain the truth; reaching a conclusion about whatever is being investigated!  
 
2:111  
وَقَالُوا لَن يَدْخُلَ الْجَنَّةَ إِلَّا مَن كَانَ هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَىٰ ۗ تِلْكَ أَمَانِيُّهُمْ ۗ قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ  
 
And they say: "None Shall enter Paradise unlesse be a Jew or a Christian."Those are their (vain) desires.Say: "Produce your proofIf ye are truthful."  
 
I’m only going by Quran evidence and the information it provides, but this is not same as me denying life after death.  
Reason for me to believe in life after death is that nothing is created in vain  
 
“The creation of whatever is in the heights and depths of the universe and all that is in between is not without purpose…. (38:27)  
 
So if nothing is created without a purpose, then I believe the purpose won’t just serve in this life, it may continue. Everything is too perfectly created to just end so abruptly, however this is my personal opinion and understanding though.  
 
 
But to claim such a statement to be Quraniq, evidence must be provided with a rational argument and explanation.  
 
 
 

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear All, please find link where this topic was discussed at lenght. Just wanted to post here to keep things together.  
 
http://aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1145  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: pervez On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear All,  
 
1. Beauty of the discussion is that most of you have brought out ample evidence from Quran  
for assurance of continuity in life after death. I wonder what other evidence or rational argument  
is required from Quran for its assurance. If it comes to "mind set" , than we need to set our minds  
in the right direction with,"Akla-i-saleem"  
 
"In fact, it is just as easy for me to apply their meanings to the present world alone as it is for others to apply their meanings to the hereafter...and for the same reason, and that is the "mindset". What I mean by this is that one's intellectual pre-disposition will determine HOW they will understand the verses you have posted" by Damon  
 
Similarly by bob,  
 
Reason for me to believe in life after death is that nothing is created in vain  
 
“The creation of whatever is in the heights and depths of the universe and all that is in between is not without purpose…. (38:27)  
 
2. What reasons anyone of us has to say that Quran doesn't talk about life after death and the book  
is only for life before death. It will be a blunder to insist upon such a statement and might devastate  
your whole positive effort in the interpretation of Quran. Taking away the goal,objective and  
the basic motivation is making this book life less. It is not enough to say that Quran is for life before  
death but we don't deny life after death. I can write and write on this subject but than it will be  
useless, if someone is bent upon having a confused and ambiguous thinking besides himself giving  
enough proof of life after death. Let us say with one voice, "QURAN WANTS US TO BELIEVE IN  
LIFE AFTER DEATH WITHOUT ANY DOUBT" establishment of welfare state is not the purpose  
of life Quran gives us, it is surely the means to achieve our goal of further progress after death.

Comments by: Damon On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Salaam Dear Respected Aastana Family,  
 
PERVEZ: Let us say with one voice, "QURAN WANTS US TO BELIEVE IN  
LIFE AFTER DEATH WITHOUT ANY DOUBT" establishment of welfare state is not the purpose  
of life, it is surely the means to achieve our goal of further progress after death.  
 
DAMON: I do agree with this plea as well as the view that establishment of a welfare state can assist in "facilitating" our goal of further "progress" after death. I just don't believe the verses talking about Yawmul Qiyyama are describing the Life after Death. To believe that they do (in my humble opinion) would mean that we have not completely rid ourselves of the N2I ways of understanding The Quran.  
 

Comments by: Nargis2 On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Brilliant Brother Damon:-  
 
"I do agree with this plea as well as the view that establishment of a welfare state can assist in "facilitating" our goal of further "progress" after death. I just don't believe the verses talking about Yawmul Qiyyama are describing the Life after Death. To believe that they do (in my humble opinion) would mean that we have not completely rid ourselves of the N2I ways of understanding The Quran.  
"  
 
It would be nice to see answers for these points by  
 
Mubashir :  
 
""If Quran gives guarantee of life after death, how this would be conveyed to people who are not born with Quran in their hands. Will we be saying u have to believe coz my book say so ???? ""  
 
And Bob:  
 
How does the Quran provide proof of life after death as the Quran stipulates that proof and evidence are necessary in order to ascertain the truth; reaching a conclusion about whatever is being investigated!  
 
2:111 .....Produce your proof If ye are truthful."  
 
:-O  
 
PSST and sssjjjjj,dont tell anyone,,here is a secret about me,,it is that cough cough , I 2 believe in life after death, but i cant prove it,,,can anyone or any book who claim such thing, prove it?

Comments by: pervez On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
 
Sister Natgis,  
 
 
1.You can not prove Allah, why do you believe in him?  
2. It is not necessary to negate everything which is in so called N2I.  
3. Momin may be old man (cough cough as you wrote)having fear of death. Mind you I am not. Yet  
belief in life here after is as old as my consciousness. I can ride a horse, run for miles and swim for  
hours right now. I am not afraid of death but I love life. This book has absolutely no significance if it  
doesn't give assurance of life after death. Your interpretations are with the incorrect mind set.  
4. I am not talking about interpretation of certain terminologies like youmul kiama ......I have already  
clarified.  
5. There are many other ayats which give assurance of continuity of life. I will discuss more. Presently  
I am in hurry and have to go some here. I fully stand by my words,  
 
 
"QURAN WANTS US TO BELIEVE IN LIFE AFTER DEATH WITHOUT ANY DOUBT"  
 

Comments by: aurangzaib On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Brother Damon,  
 
I sincerely appreciate your thoughtful reflections upon my questions. That's what those questions were meant for.  
 
I would encourage other brothers/sisters to analyse and pass comments on those questions just in the same orderly way as you have done.  
 
That might open up many ways to ascertain whether God meant a YOUM Al-QIYAMA in such a meager proportion every time one of his Nabis brought it about.  
 
And why every time such a JUDGEMENT DAY did not prove durable or long lasting?  
 
You have argued that it was people's selfish motives that rendered that "revolution" meaningless. I agree with that. BUT.....  
 
How can we guarantee that things will not continue to recur in that pattern?  
 
Why didn't the "so-acclaimed by God" Youm al-Qiyama prove worthy of that "acclaim"?  
 
If a fruitful and long lasting YOUM AL-QIYAMA has to depend solely upon the flexible, dwindling characters of humans, and we know that they have already spoiled it every time it has happened, what is the point in emphasizing it with very impressive, absolute and fearful wordings in Quran?  
 
And if the presence of Nabis could not affect a permanent change in their societies, how would we be able now to bring about that kind of change in our characters?  
 
It is not that I do not agree with the concept of worldly Youm al-Qiyama or Judgment Day. But when we define that in terms of those changes that Nabis brought about in their societies, these Quranic terms loose all their luster.  
 
Because all of us know from history that those were very small scale phenomena in secluded communities on this vast globe, for very short -lived periods of time. I hope you understand what I am trying to point out. I only mean that the episodes narrated in the eternal Book in such an awe-inspiring manner must have happened in some colossal proportions with an ever lasting impact on the human society. What we have, on the contrary, is the most popular N2I scattered around the world for almost fourteen centuries!  
 
God bless you.

Comments by: pervez On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Sister Nargis,  
 
1. You said,  
 
And they say, what! When we have become bones and dust shall we indeed be raised up a new creation. Say thou: Be ye stones or iron or a substance still more improbable in your hearts (to be restored to life). But they will say: Who shall bring us back? Say thou: He who brought you into being for the first time ( The Quraan, 17: 49-51) "  
 
 
Arabs were certainly asking about their physical death from their Prophet. It is just manipulation  
to interpret it as if they were asking about the life and death of Nations . This concept  
is not even understood by educated people of today. What to talk of those "budoos" They were  
not discussing their future that when they will become bones.......than how will they will rise.  
No. not possible. They were discussing their own death. Which is logical.  
 
2. You say that Jews and Christians believed in life after death why would they ask Prophet about  
life after death. Sister, jews and Christians are living today also, how many of them believe in life  
after death. How many Muslims , Christians and Jews really believe in life after death? Similar  
must have been the condition there also. Their must have been other people, belonging to other  
faith, or no faith, living over there.  
 
3. Prophet must have started his preaching with the belief in life after death to motivate them to  
establish "Salat"( establishment of welfare state). Belief in life after death made them individually  
accountable for their deeds. You often ask the question as to what is there, for an individual in  
Islam. This ayat shows direct dialog with those people. Prophet was trying to improve their  
condition. Why would he discuss philosophy with those Arabs. I know the caliber of Arabs.  
In fact prophet must have been telling them to take their life seriously because life does not  
end with the physical death. They should establish salat (establish welfare sate ) so that life  
improves otherwise they will suffer here and in the after life due to law of Qanoon-i-mokafat-i-  
amal. But those people were not accepting the idea of continuity of life and argued as stated  
in the ayat. This is exactly what it means. Imagine the hurdle in establishment of welfare state  
are always those who are haves and not have not's. Capitalist society suits them. Why should  
they worry about their Nation. Belief in hereafter curbs their escape route and make them  
act responsibly. I don't advocate belief of Mullahs.  
 
4. The ayah you quoted above is self explanatory and doesn't need any interpretation to change  
its meanings. It means what it says and nothing else. What are we trying to get by interpreting it  
differently ? We give different meaning to such a clear ayat create darkness and then say what  
is their for an individual.  
 
5. Please remember , "Mokafat-i-amal" is proved from Quran. It doesn't end with death. It is here,  
it is there also. Continuous life and continuous progress with perfect accountability. People like  
Sir Syed , Allama Aslam giragpuri, Allama Mushraqi, Allama Iqbal, Allama Pervez and many more  
believed in life after death but were not from N2I. I mean they believed that Quran demands faith  
in the life here after.  
 
6. I will discuss more when I find time. We will also discuss how belief in life after death effects  
character, behavior and psychology of an individual.  
 
Dear brother Aurangzeb,  
 
These were your best posts on aastana I have liked so far besides some others too.  
 

Comments by: momin On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
PLEASE DO NOT READ IF YOUR TIME IS PRECIOUS.  
YOU WILL LEARN NOTHING FROM THIS POST  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Dear baity Nargis,  
 
You are right (cough... cough) I am your old baba (manmoo), I am afraid of death. Pervez is right.  
Probably he is young energetic and enthusiastic but than he and you will also grow old, trembling  
hands and legs, wrinkled face, than you will think like me. All my life I have been trying to do something  
for salat but now it is of no use to me. I look towards sky with empty heart with slow beat ,without soul,  
end of life, no hope, I will be lost in the darkness. Than suddenly, some unseen hand extends towards  
me with warmth of love, embraces me and tells me, Momin you will not die. You were never dead.  
You played well in the field of life so you will not be treated unjustly. My heart is filled with  
joy and bliss. That could be my God. Yes he should be like that. I worked on the positive  
side of his project, why would he leave me. My heart starts pumping fast, my eyes shine  
and face glows with light. Yes, this should be the end. This is the truth , truth which I can  
feel inside my heart, I found it...yes I found it. But, You will all be babas one day like me.  
Like a dry tree in the bewilderness. Than you will remember me nearly a century old baba  
of aastana. But than you will not find me. I shall be flying with winds and stars, with moon  
and with the universe from where I emanated, the conscious energy, no time, there was no  
time before my birth and there will be no time after my death.  
 
 
RAHA GURDISHOON MAI HER DUM MAIRAY ISHK KA SITARA  
 
KABHI DUGMAGAI KUSHTI KABHI KHO GIA KINARA.  
 
My apologies to all for wasting your precious time. Sorry, I am blank , no knowledge but a warm heart.  
 
 
Your baba manmoo.  
 
 
 
 

Comments by: naeem sheikh On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Pervez ! Do it and be efficient ,for the job in hand.  
No problem to keep on watching what is in the bush  
Well done Mr Damon.  
Brother Aurangzaib ! Why should we worry about the time and place to establish the YOUM ASSAA /YAUM ADDIN, go through the verses 7/187, 33/63, 79/ 42,

Comments by: Damon On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Brother Aurangzaib,  
 
Thank You for the thought provoking reply. Please allow me to share some additional thoughts with you.  
 
AURANGZAIB: And why every time such a JUDGEMENT DAY did not prove durable or long lasting?  
 
You have argued that it was people's selfish motives that rendered that "revolution" meaningless. I agree with that. BUT.....  
 
DAMON: Not purely due to selfish motives but MAINLY due to the lack of maintaining and expanding it. This is EXACTLY WHY the elites in power are able to rule the world. They work feverishly to maintain, refine and expand their rule. And we still have yet to get a clue.  
 
AURANGZAIB: How can we guarantee that things will not continue to recur in that pattern?  
 
DAMON: We cannot gurantee that things will not continue to recur in that pattern BUT that should not be a factor in our decisions to stand up and fight tyranny tooth and nail. If I were to dwell on the possibility of the trend continuing even after our revolutionary efforts, I may be develop an attitude of "apathy" and become "pessimistic". Once this happens then there is absolutely no hope which is part of the reason why things are the way they are now...apathy and pessimism. The other reason is people lean on their "opium" called Religion and just put up with the present conditions of tyranny, corruption and injustice and pray that they will get their "paradise" in the afterlife. These attitudes are combining to suck the life force out of the common man.  
 
AURANGZAIB: Why didn't the "so-acclaimed by God" Youm al-Qiyama prove worthy of that "acclaim"?  
 
DAMON: Human Beings. The work has to be done by human beings who are TRUE mumineen. It has to be ESTABLISHED by true mumineen, it has to be REFINED by true mumineen, it has to be MAINTAINED by true mumineen and it has to be EXPANDED by true mumineen. If this formula is correctly followed, we will see the LASTING results that we seek.  
 
AURANGZAIB: If a fruitful and long lasting YOUM AL-QIYAMA has to depend solely upon the flexible, dwindling characters of humans, and we know that they have already spoiled it every time it has happened, what is the point in emphasizing it with very impressive, absolute and fearful wordings in Quran?  
 
DAMON: A fruitful and long lasting tyranny and rule of the world by the corrupt elite depends solely upon human beings. AND IT IS WORKING JUST FINE AND DANDY FOR THEM.  
 
The TWO fundamental differences THEM and US are One, they prove everyday to have a sincere and strong desire call all the shots in the world with their tyranny and corruption whereas WE lack that same Eeman (conviction) to see the world governed by Quranic Laws and Quranic Permanent Values. We seem to be content to just talk about what we want and how the world stinks. Secondly, THEY have chased down and obtained the POWER that they need to act upon their convictions and desires. They have positioned themselves to run the world as they see fit whereas WE lack that same strong CONVICTION to obtain POWER and position ourselves to run the world as WE see fit.  
 
AURANGZAIB: And if the presence of Nabis could not affect a permanent change in their societies, how would we be able now to bring about that kind of change in our characters?  
 
DAMON: Again, I have to go back to setting up a SYSTEM. And this SYSTEM once ESTABLISHED absolutely MUST be MAINTAINED and EXPANDED to encompass all of humanity. Part of the efforts to ensure this are tied into the culture and education of the people GROWING UP under this system. The corrupt elite are able to control the people because the educational systems and dominant cultures of the world "facilitate" in keeping them and their system running intact on an indefinite basis.  
 
AURANGZAIB: It is not that I do not agree with the concept of worldly Youm al-Qiyama or Judgment Day. But when we define that in terms of those changes that Nabis brought about in their societies, these Quranic terms loose all their luster.  
 
DAMON: I personally disagree with this statement. To see these terminologies in the light that I see them does not make them loose their luster in my mind. In fact, to see these terms in the light that I do makes me even more determined to fight and strive hard to play my part and bring about the Quranic Revolution.  
 
I personally and humbly believe that the danger of them loosing their luster exists when a person solely see these terms as dealing with metaphysical phenomena which is untangible. But FOR ME the PHYSICAL phenomena is tangible and obtainable. Are we willing to fight them as vehemently as they are willing to fight us. So far we are failing miserably due to apathy/pessimim and religious ways of thinking.  
 
AURANGZAIB: Because all of us know from history that those were very small scale phenomena in secluded communities on this vast globe, for very short -lived periods of time. I hope you understand what I am trying to point out. I only mean that the episodes narrated in the eternal Book in such an awe-inspiring manner must have happened in some colossal proportions with an ever lasting impact on the human society. What we have, on the contrary, is the most popular N2I scattered around the world for almost fourteen centuries!  
 
DAMON: America rules most of the globe right now. BUT this did not happen overnight. They started off ruling certain territories in the U.S., then while MAINTAINING their rule over these territories, they systematically EXPANDED their rule over more and more of America. THEN they eventually reached a point to where they were able to systematically EXPAND their rule over most of the globe.  
 
WE JUST HAVE TO MAN UP AND ADOPT THE SAME STRATEGY AND ZEAL AS THEM!!  
 
It all boils down to one word...POWER!!! Power does not have a preference of good people or evil people. It is just their ready to be seized and utilised. They have done so already and we STILL cannot get a hint from their activities that WE must do the same thing. We can talk and intellectualize all we want, but UNLESS and UNTIL we make sincere efforts to gain power, we will NEVER be able to implement The Quran ANYWHERE!! To me this is the essence and true meaning of 22/41. And the key word in that verse which describes the position of power is the same word used to describe Yousuf's position of power in 12/56. See ayaat 54 through 57 to see one of the ways to gain that type of position of power and influence.  
 
I'll leave these words for everyone here to think about. It is US (Quranists) against THEM (corrupt elite). THEY are winning...WE are losing. We can carefully ponder on 8/73 over and over and over again UNTIL it finally sinks into our heads what we must do to start changing things around.  
 
Fi'Amanillah,  
Damon.

Comments by: Nargis On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
DEAR ALLAMA PARWEZ  
 
parwez.- 1.You cannot prove Allah, why do you believe in him?  
 
NARGIS: It is no my job to prove Allah because he is free to choose how he wants us to recognize him.  
* We have not seen Newton, but we KNOW that he lived because his work is confirmation of his existence  
* Many have not seen Allama Iqbal, but his WORK is testifies his reality  
* I have not seen Allama Parwez, but through his work, he has made himself known  
* We cannot see Dr Uncle Qamar, but his work is the proof for his reality  
 
People reaffirm their existence which is revealed, manifested and displayed through their work, why then should the criterion for "believing" in God be that he has to be seen instead of being witnessed through his work?  
 
And how does he have to look like to fulfill the criterion of being Allah?  
 
No dear Allama Parwez, I don’t believe in God, I KNOW the reality of someone who created this creation and keeps it alive through safeguarding life with nourishment.  
 
We don’t need more than two eyes to see his creation, and one brain to calculate its perfection  
 
الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ  
 
This statement can be confirmed  
 
When someone’s work is acknowledged, then he is appreciated (hamd) Hamds basic meaning is to praise someone’s attributes. It means you acknowledge his attributes.  
 
When the book started with this line, it means before we can learn anything presented in rest of the book, we have to be clear in our mindset and acknowledge the creator as the one who nourishes of the universe.  
 
HOW do we acknowledge him then?  
 
64:1. whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare the Praises and Glory of Allah  
 
Here we can see that EVERYTHING praises Allah, even plants and animals. They don’t speak Arabic do they? Their praise is through the acknowledgment of the creation so they live according to it  
 
So how can we do hamd of Allah the Rabb ul alemeen?  
 
32:15. Only those believe In Our Signs, who, when they are recited to them, Fall down in adoration, and celebrate the praises of their Lord, nor are they puffed up with pride.  
 
So hamd is only possible if the signs have made us yumina, and done AFTER/while one is performing sajda…(We know what sajda is). Recognition or confession of Allah is done alongside with sajda, this is physical arrangements done by those who have understood the signs  
17:51  
"Who will cause us To return?" Say: "He who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, And say, "When will that be?" Say, "May be It will be quite soon!  
 
We don’t know where to RETURN, there is no proof of us being with God and now we are goin to RETURN at that place with Allah.  
 
 
الَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَتْهُم مُّصِيبَةٌ قَالُوا إِنَّا لِلَّهِ وَإِنَّا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ  
 
2:156. Who say, when afflicted with calamity: "To Allah We belong, and to Him is our return":-  
 
Why would they say they belong to Allah and to him they will return? How do they know they have been there? It said lillahi, and it is commandments of Allah. People will say they are in favor of the divine commandments/Laws,orders and they will return to them.  
 
How will they do that?  
 
By turning towards them, implement and FOLLOW them because these commandments are the basic human rights, and that’s the origin of every human. Human beings have been created without discrimination, everyone is equally worthy of respect (17:70)  
 
Human beings started to discriminate between each other when they left Lillahi( Divine commandments that give everyone equal rights, ref. Adam and Iblees/Haqiqate malaika),  
 
But now they say they will RETURN TO THEM. They will return to the original divine commandments for humanity, they will again restore themselves to become humans/ (Adam made of taen) and not iblees/shaitan/munafiq etc etc  
 
17:52  
"”It will be on a Day When He will call you, and ye will answer with His praise, and ye will think that ye tarried but a little while! "  
 
Here we can see that they will answer with praise, I know you know that this cannot be proven to happen in LIFE AFTER DEATH, and the praise described in Quran is related to  
 
LIFE BEFORE DEATH!!!!!  
 
Why would they THINK that they tarried but a little while? Is it because they were physically dead and just woke up coz they didn’t noticed the time while being dead, or is it because they just understood what LIFE IS?  
 
Im going to eat my icecream now slhhhurpiiiiii yummiiiiiii  
 
hah i just noticed the "report abuse" button , :P ill use that on everyone who disagree with me hahaha

Comments by: Nargis2 On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Allama Pervez  
 
2. It is not necessary to negate everything which is in so called N2I.  
 
NARGIS  
 
It is necessary to let the Quran explain itself , convey its intended message as it was meant originally, and not let its perception and meaning be affected by different sectarian’s belief. The author of the Quran has a message, let the message be filtered from biased thoughts.  
 
Its either the Quran or N2I  
 
One cannot ride two horses with one bottom!!!  
 
Allama Parwez jee :-D:-  
 
3/4/5…. BELIEF in life here after is as old as my consciousness.  
. This book has absolutely no significance if it doesn’t give assurance of life after death. "QURAN WANTS US TO BELIEVE IN LIFE AFTER DEATH WITHOUT ANY DOUBT"  
 
NARGIS:-  
If everything is narrowed down to BELIEF, then why can’t we BELIEVE in claims made in other religious books`?  
 
(the book may not be of any use for those who want it to talk about life after death even when it cant be proven or understood, but its given to lead mankind out from darkness and establish divine laws in order to develop humanity, so for those who want to work for this cause, they will definately make use of it)  

Comments by: moazzam On 29 April 2011
Dear Participants! As we believe in the continuity of life after death (which is beyond comprehension).  
But, remember this Quran provides eternal guidance which includes commandments, permanent values, and revolutionary process to establish Islamic state, warnings, glad tidings and consequences all are related to life before death. Therefore, all the terminologies used in lieu of our deeds like “YOUM AL QAYAMA/YOUM AL MEHSHER/YOUM AL HISAB/ YOUM –E-YUBASOON "should be related to the immediate guidance (life before death)  
Sister Nargis is right in her inference as given under.  
(the book may not be of any use for those who want it to talk about life after death even when it cant be proven or understood, but its given to lead mankind out from darkness and establish divine laws in order to develop humanity, so for those who want to work for this cause, they will definately make use of it) (Nargis)  

Comments by: Junaid On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
As I said earlier on, I don't think I deserve to comment on this particular topic regarding life after death, since I have done nothing in this world yet to improve my own life or the lives of those around me. I did nothing in this life to expect something good in the next life. All I can do is to try and come out of my comfort zone, put in some practical efforts to improve things around me, say NO to the concepts of tyranny, oppression, suppression, support the concepts of peace, harmony and welfare, strive to bring around positive changes, no matter whether I succeed or fail and wait till I die, to see what happens next :)  
 
As per my understanding, there are certain things we need to believe in and not everything can be proved through logic and reason. We cannot comprehend the creator, we cannot prove the existence of creator. Likewise those who say there is no concept of a creator in this universe, they cannot prove it either. Life after death, is something which can't be proved or denied through reason or logic. Arguments fail to produce results at times and we can find no way to prove what we believe.  
 
When we sow a seed in the soil, we rely on our belief that it will produce a fruit. We can prove it through logic, using examples of our observations in the past when the seeds were sown at the right time, under right conditions and fruits were produced. This is what we call learning through practical experience. One can say that the plant will come out, grow and produce the fruit, since it happened in the past and was observed.  
 
Can we use the same logic to prove or define life after death?  
Has anyone communicated with a dead person?  
Can anyone tell me what life after death is?  
How does it feel when a person dies?  
Can someone tell me what happens to a person when he dies?  
 
The answer is a straight "No", because none of us has experienced death yet and those who are dead already, they never came back to tell us what it is.  
 
My question is that why are we looking for the proofs in Quran regarding life after death? Why can't we just concentrate on the instructions being given and the true values being taught to us through this magnificent book?  
Why can't we just try and focus on the concepts of practical struggle towards peace, harmony and welfare? Why are we worried about tomorrow when so much work needs to be done today? We are thinking about future while our present is not in a good shape. Life around us is in a mess and we are thinking about next life? What do you all expect in that next life without showing any progress in this life? Where is the struggle? What are we doing practically to correct things around us right now?  
 
 
Quran is a guidance for mankind, but we cannot prove or convince others using logic or reason, we cannot convince others through argument, since majority still believe that the interpretation of Persian Imams is correct and that they were authentic scholars, being declared so, by the kings and governments of their time and being accepted as authentic by people living around them. Concepts taken from other religious books, other religious beliefs, concepts based on myths dogmas and rituals, are accepted worldwide, despite being incorrect and we cannot prove them wrong through argument alone.  
We cannot see any example recorded in our history where someone contradicted or challenged the concepts of Persian Imams which are still accepted as authentic these days.  
How can we prove them wrong now?  
The answer is that we don't need to prove anything. Quran itself is the biggest proof for everything. All we need is to concentrate on the core ideology conveyed through this book and thats all. Those who accept it as a true message for peace and harmony, it's good for their own selves. Those who are still under influence of Persian Imams from the past, those who still see Quran as a book teaching them what and how to eat or drink, how to sleep, how to perform the daily aerobics, how to recite few words and forget whats is going around in the world, how and whom to marry, how to treat concubines and slaves, how to buy and sell the commodities etc. etc. they should carry on with what they think it is about. Who am I to force them what to do and what not to. They are responsible for their own deeds and I am responsible for my own. All I can do is to try and convince them once or twice and then leave them on their path.  
Instead of wasting my time with such stubborn minds, I would rather look for those having flexible minds, people who somehow believe in the concepts of peace, harmony, welfare in the society and overall betterment of mankind. These are the people who can understand the true concepts given in Quran and these are the successful ones.  
 
The perfection, the magnificence, the beauty of this message itself is the proof of Quran as guidance for mankind. A guidance which needs no third person to be involved as medium of interpretation. There is no room for personality cult, only a clear mind is required to comprehend.

Comments by: Nargis2 On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
1) How do you help a drug addict to stop taking drugs?  
 
By taking the necessary steps to make sure the drugs are brushed away and out of his/her body  
 
2) How can the Quran lead people out of the darkness?  
 
By darkness (idols, mythology, religion, and yellow cow) being shampooed and bathed out of their brain!!  
 
Then they must learn what’s haram (drugs/ illusion) and what’s halal (medicine/ Quran = reality)  
 
See how Uncomplicated and Trouble-free that is ? :-D  
 
Does the book give us  
 
Opinion, belief, faith, concepts, impressions, vague ideas, fictions, impracticality, romanticism, fantasy and soft focus  
 
Or does it give us  
 
Facts, Realities, Evidences, Verities, knowledge, comprehension, practicality, sanity, saneness actuality and truth?  
 

Comments by: Junaid On 29 April 2011Report Abuse
Sorry I Just wanted to add few more words;  
 
Dear friends, I don't trust the recorded historic events, but still I would like to quote what I read somewhere;  
Our history says that when barbaric forces of Mongols lead by Halaku Khan were knocking at the door of Baghdad, the so called Muslim scholars were arguing on "Quran being a creation of Allah or not".  
 
The reason why i have quoted this historic event is that today, many Halaku Khans are knocking our door in form of tyranny, suppression, aggression, oppression, injustice and inequality. The barbaric Mongol armies have been replaced by Corporations carrying the motive of profit, based on the elements of greed and selfishness. Governments based on the concept of Kleptocracy where few elites are suppressing, subjugating and depriving majority, forcing them to accept this state of desperation as their fate.  
 
Under these circumstances, I think we are doing the same thing what the those so called Muslim scholars did in the past.  
Why are we wasting our energies in a fruitless discussion?  
Trust me, this discussion will not give you anything. Life after death is something totally useless if you ain't striving to change this life of yours.  
Instead of utilizing our time trying to convince others to believe in life after death, we should rather try and join those who are struggling to change their life and the lives of others. Yes there are people who are working day and night to convert their dreams into reality.  
All you need is to get out of your comfort zones, leave your pens or key boards, locate and join the practical struggle going around. Start helping those who can't change the world on their own. They need us now, before it's too late.

Comments by: pervez On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Sister Nargis,  
 
1. I have just returned from hospital where I went for treatment of my mother in law. Not in a proper  
mood to write. However, I will try to say a few words now but will write more subsequently. You  
want to sit in a bus which has no destination. You want to construct a building without its foundations.  
I am astonished to see that simple ayats of Quran which wants human beings to believe in life after  
death are manipulated to prove that they are for life before death. You call it sanity, Facts, Realities,  
Evidences, Verities, knowledge, comprehension, practicality, sanity, saneness actuality and truth.  
On the other hand if one believes in ayats in their true sence you call it Opinion, belief, faith, concepts,  
impressions, vague ideas, fictions, impracticality, romanticism, fantasy and soft focus. Please tell  
me is this your love for truth. People say why are we looking for the proofs in Quran regarding life after  
death? I ask you why we are intentionally denying Quranic facts given in Quran to suit our self  
assumptions. Is this honest approach? How does belief in life after death effects your practical  
approach negatively? Rather it adds beauty to the whole picture. If you do not believe what I am  
telling you , I can assure you, aastana mission is destined to fail miserably. Belief in life after death  
is not a trivial matter. You are taking it very lightly but it is very serious, you don't realize. Please  
rethink before it is too late. You may call me anything , pervez, mullah, give fatwa but I will tell  
you the reality. Reality is that Quranic ayat already mentioned demands us to belief in life after  
death.  
 
 
2. As I told you earlier that I have all the books of Allama Pervez including Loghat-ul-Quran.  
I can quote so many ayats which are regarding life after death. Similarly so many ayats  
which are concerning life before death. Rather major portion of QURAN discusses life before  
death. That is the main objective. Therefore, this exercise will never end. Because we both can  
find such ayats. You producing ayats regarding life before death and I writing ayats for life after  
death. Can we discuss whole Quranic ayats in our small posts. NO, I have already discussed  
ayats regarding life after death. Even one ayat is enough to prove my point. That has been  
done.  
 
3. You have given good reasons to believe in Allah through his signs in creation. That was  
exactly I wanted you to bring out. Well done, now see his signs of continuity of life in nature.  
You and me are also part of nature. We must study ourselves also. Depths of our  
consciousness. Our desires, feelings and emotions all are Allah's sign. I am myself a sign  
of Allah. Why me and so many in human history always had intense desire to live for ever.  
Why a flower sprouts? Iqbal says,  
 
Tu shakh sai kyoon phoota, main shakh sai kyoon tota.  
ik jazb-i-paidayee ik luzat-i-yaktayee.  
 
Everything reproduces itself. Look at seeds. Nothing go waste without producing results.  
We procreate physically, but what about our personality. Will it finish? It doesn't reproduce.  
Personality doesn't procreate than will nature let it go waste. No. It will progress. This is  
also a sign, why you ignore it and say that it can't be proved so Quran doesn't talk at all  
about life after death. The way you believe in existence of Allah through signs in Nature,  
similarly you can find sign for life after death also. You need to exercise "Akal-i-saleem"  
 
4. I don't agree with your example of riding horse regarding rejecting everything in N2I.  
This example doesn't fit in. N2I also believe in Quran but have distorted its ideology with  
Hadith. But you can still find some truth there. For example, our social laws. No Muslim  
marries his sister may be of N2I. So to reject N2I should we marry our sisters and say  
that we can't ride two horses???  
 
5. I will talk more later, I may like to make it clear to all aastana members that I am totally  
clear that Quran gives assurance of life after death to every individual. It's whole philosophy  
is based on this belief. Those who have intention to call me stubborn should look into their  
own lifeless heart. Let me say a little more which I know most of you will not like. Life is a  
love story. Now think if you have hearts. You can do nothing without love. Love for Allah,  
for his creation, for his obedience. for sacrifice. What an Allah who doesn't tell me about  
my destination and wants me to establish a welfare state? I don't believe in any such book.  
Read human history , see Ahram-i-miser and those mummies. How human beings have been  
suffered for attaining life after death. Allah of Quran creates humans and doesn't address  
this human desire. Doesn't guide them to the correct path of attaining eternity. What a lifeless  
book it would be. It is not the case brothers. Quran guides us wherever it is required. Our  
psychological, spiritual and practical needs are taken care off.  
 
6. I don't know others who say they haven't done anything in life. It is not the case with me.  
I have done a lot in my humble capacity. Loved Allah, his creation and performed my duties  
excellently, loved my subordinates, demonstrated Allah's values with utmost courage devotion  
and uprightness with a very warm heart full of love. Anyone having doubt may contact me, I  
will show him everything. Why I am writing this, not to boost myself, I don't need that but to  
tell you that those who believe in life after death are not impractical. Rather more practical.  
I am totally satisfied with my life. I WILL NOT DIE OK , BECAUSE ALLAH OF QURAN  
TELLS ME. SO I AM HAPPY AND CONFIDENT.  
 
 
DILAY MOORDA DIL NANHE HAI ISSAY ZINDA KER DOBARA  
 
K YAHI HAI UMMATOON K MERZAY KOHAN KA CHARA.  
 
 
 

Comments by: William On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear pervez,  
 
Perhaps you should put your personal opinions and emotions aside and review these posts again, along with what has been stated throughout the forum.  
 
If you have already made up your mind and have given your own meaning to these ayats (believing in such content regardless of what evidence, proof or line of reasoning is put forth), then there is nothing more to discuss.  
 
These discussions are for those who want to understand the true meaning of the Quran – Those who understand the Quran can prove its statements.  
 
I can assure you, that Nargis, Moazzam, Bob and Damon do not deny life after death!  
 
They are simply deciphering the Quranic ayats, without preconceived notions, exhibiting the truth as it unveils itself.  
 
Thank you  

Comments by: pervez On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear William,  
 
I will give the same advise to you,  
 
Perhaps you should put your personal opinions and emotions aside and review my posts again.  
Your understanding is not correct from my point of view. I will gain nothing from your understanding  
where as you could have been benefited with what I wrote. Why you think you people are correct.  
Ok, I don't have to learn anything from you as for this matter is concerned. You want me to stop  
writing , ok I will not. bye . I don't have time to waste if this is your approach.  

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear All, Is confirmation of life after death a real reason to do good stuff or care for Humanity??  
 
Not sure how many humans look after their children/family to achieve better life after death? What difference would that make to a person if he knows Quran does not say anything about it. Will he/she kick their children/family out if he got power to do so?  
 
Nay any normal person wont do any of the above in ANY case…..can he? I think WE don’t need confirmation of life after death to look after our kids/family…………WHY???  
 
Peace (which comes when all aspects of life are in balance) , Enhancement are motivating aspects for humans to adopt DEEN…………..How are parents able to motivate children to study or work hard in life………..for sure not with glad tidings of life after death………  
 
Note : With no intension to offend or defend just 2 cents for people of understanding to ponder on……………  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: Nargis2 On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
oioo  
 
no1 need to go anywhere, this is just a discussion :D  
 
i would defend myself, but then i wont be honoured with speculation about my intentions :-D :-D  
 
Jaane kya kya bol ke mujhe ko log kare badnaam  
Yeh kya kam hai yeh dunya leti hai mea naam  
 
hahaha  
 
No matter what, we should stick together and not fight, when we have more knowledge we can discuss further  
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw8ICbgQS0U  
 
we need something new to argu,,,sorry i mean discuss about :-D  
 
 
c yaa byeeeee

Comments by: William On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear pervez,  
 
Please don’t get upset!  
 
The ideas, information and arguments presented by you are based on traditional interpretations of Quranic Ayats, which have been propagated by “scholars” such as “Yusuf Ali”. I am well aware of such viewpoints and in my opinion may be subject to inaccuracies!  
 
Unfortunately, reviewing your points, I have not “benefited” from what you have written! Yusuf Ali’s translation is available for all; there is no need to repeat his work to us!  
 
Thank you  

Comments by: pervez On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear William,  
 
1. I had decided not to write any more because you desire so. However you addressed  
me again. There is no point in getting upset. You saved my time. However, let me clarify you that  
I never follow anyone. I have never ever studied translation by yousaf Ali. You know nothing about  
me, similarly, I don't know about you. So I don't assume anything about you. But your wrong  
assumptions about me does sound fair to you. I discussed nothing in particular with you. So,  
you didn't had right to advise me to stop writing on the issue.  
 
2. Now, listen I didn't asked you whether you benefited or not. It was you who forced me to address  
you in particular. This is a forum of so many, if not you someone else might have benefited. Your  
intervention in this manner is inappropriate.  
 
3. Me to have not benefited from your these posts. I am not born to be lead but to lead brother.  
You think I am a sheep that I follow yousaf Ali, Pervez , Mullahs, traditional, Doctor Qamer, this that  
etc...etc. None brother none. I consider direct insult to my creator if I follow a person born like me.  
It may be your prerogative. I believe in finding my own truth. What I expressed was my own thinking.  
Not borrowed thoughts. You cannot differentiate between borrowed thoughts and the one emerging  
from inner depths. You are lacking in qualities of heart. Please stop this discussion further to keep the  
atmosphere cordial.

Comments by: momin On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
 
Dear Pervez,  
 
It's ok, if you differ. everyone has freedom to express himself. Dear brother William  
and others are all here for learning. If all of us have same opinion than what could be learning.  
Let this forum be a garden of multicolored flowers which add to the beauty of garden. Anyway,  
a verse from this baba on my behalf with love for each one of you.  
 
" FAQIRANA AYE SADA KER CHALAY  
 
MIAN KHOOSH RAHO HUM DOA KER CHALAY"  

Comments by: moazzam On 30 April 2011
Dear Participants Sister Nargis! YAUM AL AKHIRAH / AAQIBAH  
Although this quranic term obviously elaborated at different places in Quran ,but could be easily understood by pondering in Surah ALNAMAL.  
Read the verses 27/1-6 طس تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْقُرْآنِ وَكِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ  
هُدًى وَبُشْرَى لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ  
الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُم بِالْآخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ  
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْآخِرَةِ زَيَّنَّا لَهُمْ أَعْمَالَهُمْ فَهُمْ يَعْمَهُونَ  
أُوْلَئِكَ الَّذِينَ لَهُمْ سُوءُ الْعَذَابِ وَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ هُمُ الْأَخْسَرُونَ  
Read the verses 27/7-14 here the story about moses continuous struggle has been described and THE END RESULT OF HIS STRUGGLE (AKHIRAH) IS BEING DISCRIBED IN VERSE 14.  
Read the verse 15-44, here the story of Solemon has been described, and in verse 44 the END RESULT OF HIS STRUGGLE (AKHIRAH) is being described.  
Read the verses45-53, here the story of Qaum-e-Samood has been described, and in verses49-53the END RESULT OF HIS STRUGGLE (AKHIRAH ) IS BEING DESCRIBED.  
Read the verses54-58,here the story of LOOT has been described , in verse 57-58 THE END RESULT OF HIS STRUGGLE (AKHIRAH) is being described.  
Remember these all stories (the context) well describe the sense of ALHAMD-O-LILLAH (the aim of momins life is to do struggle in the cause of allah as all Ambiya usually do that is to establish the Islamic state) in verse 59.  
Now read the verses 60-85 and focus at verses 83-84, the final and last but most decisive verses at this issue are 87-92.You will definitely conclude that the term AKHIRAH has been used for the event may happened in this world (life before death).  
At the end of surah, again reminded the LIFE TASK OF MOMINEEN that is to be ALHAMD-O-LILLAH (the aim of momins life is to do struggle in the cause of allah as all Ambiya usually do that is to establish the Islamic state)  
 
Remember the orthodox translations and inference of YAUM AL AKHIRAH ( which means the event to be happed in life after death) will drag the people (mankind) to the futile rituals, dogmas, and certain beliefs only which is called RELIGION (NOT DEEN)  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Moazzam, AKHIR main aa ke AKHIRI point zahir kar dia na haha  
 
Naml 86: See they not that We Have made the Night For them to rest in And the Day to give Them light? Verily in this  
Are Signs for any people That believe!  
 
this verse came in between, and this is not about sleep and wakin up having a breakfast, right? as i understand this , allayl as described earlier, is dark era with zulm, so when its said we made dark eras(where zulm happend) peaceful and youm is now bringing you light,knowledge, it is referred to this life- and last line said its sign for yuminuna,,,  
 
So these signs are to those who already live in peace, those with amn, it means this al layl have been eliminated and the youm has given them light. this is something to see for everyone, still some continue their ignorance...  
 
this is happening before death.dear Moazzam did i get this right?  
 
thank you for these references, now i can eat a cake with my ice cream.. mashallah shukaralHAMDOlillah byebyee

Comments by: momin On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Moazzam,  
 
Regards, obviously I have studied Quran all my life. I have just now again studied  
all references you gave in your above posts critically but my analysis is different than yours.  
Not that I am supporting brother Pervez, but with sincere effort to learn and review my understanding  
of Quran, because I believe that one should be ready to accept truth even at the last breath of life,  
I DON'T THINK THAT "AKHIRA" IS USED FOR THIS WORLD ONLY. I don't deny that this word is  
used for the consequences those nations faced in this world as a result of their bad deeds. But when  
Quran also assures life after death than the consequences doesn't end here but definitely will stretch  
to the next world. So the term "AKHIRA" is used for consequences here and there too.  
 
Similarly, baity Nargis your understanding of  
 
Naml 86: See they not that We Have made the Night For them to rest in And the Day to give Them  
light? Verily in this Are Signs for any people That believe!  
 
does not convey prudent sense of the verse. Rather Allah just reminds you about his laws in nature.  
That is how Allah reminds us that our life too is governed by laws. very simple. no interpretation required.  
Any way you can have your"ice cream.. mashallah shukaralHAMDOlillah"  
 
Brother Moazzam, I am not a hard liner like brother Pervez (with due apology to him). I am thinking  
and thinking and thinking to review my understanding of Quran. I agreed with you on most of your  
understanding, you pretty know that well. But you know ......here still thinking.  
 
There are two main ideologies. one to believe in continuity of life and second to consider that death  
is the end of life. I think philosophy or ideology of AL-KITAB is based on the concept of firm belief  
in the life here after. We find such ayats in Quran already discussed. I know none of you including  
doctor Qamer and baity Nargis denies life after death but you do not think that Quran requires that.  
That is my difference with you and it is important brother. I think , you can benefit from Allama Pervez.  
I am afraid baity Nargis will start calling me Allama Pervez as she calls brother Pervez. Whenever,  
I see your references, I take out ,Mafhoom-ul-Quran, motalib-ul-furkan,tabweeb and loghat. See  
the references there, compare,evaluate and think but "JAWAB NANHE PERVEZ sahib ka"  
But I do differ with him also.  
 
I know baity Nargis is annoyed with me because I tell him Quran gives guarantee for life after death.  
Anyway.  
 
Let us agree to disagree. One thing more your fear that if "AKHIRA" is interpreted for life after death  
also than we get into religion is not correct. Due you know people who have read Allama Pervez  
are away from this menace.  
 
Because Allah says,  
 
"KOOL IN KOOTUM TOHIBOONALLAHHA FATABAYOONI" I don't remember the reference.  
 
REGARDS  

Comments by: William On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Pervez,  
 
I am not getting upset; on the contrary, I am quite happy! It’s a lovely day outside I’m thinking of going for a stroll in the park!  
 
My desire is for you to write as much as you wish! However, my advice was a direct response to your statement!  
 
Pervez's statement: “If you do not believe what I am telling you , I can assure you, aastana mission is destined to fail miserably. Belief in life after death is not a trivial matter. You are taking it very lightly but it is very serious, you don't realize. ”  
 
When Quranic Ayats are being discussed, the members of Aastana take on board all arguments presented, cross examine what is being stated and evaluate all details thoroughly before forming a conclusion.  
 
We have been moulded not to accept any information without critically analysing it first. Projecting your personal opinions / beliefs is not what this discussion forum is about. We are here to share understanding of Quranic Ayats without prejudice or biased opinion! Individuals should remain open to all possibilities not be fixed to one particular standpoint.  
 
You have asked me to review your posts again and then stated: “you could have been benefited with what I wrote” (maybe you forgot about this?)  
 
To which I replied, such ideas have “been propagated by “scholars” such as “Yusuf Ali” ”, and that we were all already aware of such ideology. I was not suggesting you were influenced by anyone at all!  
 
You also state: “Me to have not benefited from your these posts. I am not born to be lead but to lead brother.”  
 
I am sorry that you have not benefitted from any of these posts, but I have :)  
 
You go onto state:  
 
“I believe in finding my own truth. What I expressed was my own thinking. Not borrowed thoughts.”  
 
No one is denying you this whatsoever! Aastana, however, is trying to find the Quranic truth!  
 
You have also stated:  
 
“You are lacking in qualities of heart. Please stop this discussion further to keep the atmosphere cordial.”  
 
You are displaying an emotional and very dramatic performance that even Dilip Kumar would be proud of! Relax my brother!  
 
Perhaps you should refer to this thread:  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=40&QID=1217  
 

Comments by: Nargis2 On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Heyy manmo momin  
 
you said:- I know baity Nargis is annoyed with me because I tell him Quran gives guarantee for life after death.  
Anyway.  
 
Noooo im not annoyed at all, i just dont agree that the Quran being a divine book askin others to bring their burhaan,proof, would talk about something which is not provable. Thats going against its claim to bring people out from darkness by liberating them frm mental slavery(14:1-5)  
 
why so?  
 
Because mental slavery is only happening when ones own brain is not workin and it follows some given "truths" without him being able to question them.  
 
Here the Quran said its book of hikmat, then it would mean we can turn to it for hikmat,right...how come it would try to explain something we are not able to grasp or which is not probable, and we can not gain hikmat from ?  
 
Its hard to explain what im trying to say, but im far from annoyed with anyone. Everyone can think and say whatever they want, i do the same. I cant deny others the luxury im myself benefitting from, namely to differ and disagree :D  
 

Comments by: pervez On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear brother William,  
 
1. If you keep on addressing me I will keep on replying. I have now decided to pull  
back and see your entire interpretation. Now I think you are in aastana team.  
OK, my aim is to contribute and learn. I will come back and give my views when  
you are finished with the translation. Till than Allah Hafiz, I will not come back  
now but will be reading and analyzing quietly.  
 
2. The word upset was used by you and not me.  
 
Comments by: William On 30 April 2011 Report Abuse  
 
Dear pervez,  
 
Please don’t get upset!  
 
3. Allah Hafiz, hope you will relax now my brother, your performance is also not  
less than Dilip after all we all have heart. Isn't it? We are not machines. Ok, if I  
hurt your feelings I regret. It happens. Now happy.  
 

Comments by: moazzam On 30 April 2011
Sister Nargis you are right,ALLAIL means gumrahi , taskunoo doesn't mean rest rather humiliation (zillat), to know the sense of TASKUNOO reads the verse 3/112 where ZILLA AND MASKANA has been written.  
Moreover to know the sense of ALLAIL READ THE VERSE 2/113.  
The sense of ALLAIL WAL NAHAR could also be cleared by reading the verse 2/274.  
Dear Sister the sense of night and day (24 hours) generated due to revolving of planet earth on its xis could not fulfill the required meanings of Quran but it is reflection of our limited thoughts which could not even satisfy the verse 28/71.  
To be firm at your stance please read the verses 10/56-70, and pay especial attention on verse 10/67 (the same text as 27/86) but with its elaborated context.  
I proud of you being the Quranist.  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Thank you my dearest brother, i will go through these verses. what would i have done withut you :-D

Comments by: moazzam On 30 April 2011
Dear Participants !  
Momin :- Quran also assures life after death then the consequences doesn't end here but definitely will stretch to the next world. So the term "AKHIRA" is used for consequences here and there too.  
Moazzam:- ! Please try to differentiate between the DNYING OF LIFE AFTER DEATH and the TERM YOUM AL AKHIRAH used in Quran for the end results (makafat-e-amal) of good or bad deeds in life before death.  
Momin :- I DON'T THINK THAT "AKHIRA" IS USED FOR THIS WORLD ONLY.  
I don’t deny that, this word is used for the consequences those nations faced in this world as a result of their bad deeds.  
Moazzam :-YES you are right, but don’t stretch the term YOUM AL AKHIRAH used for makafat-e amal (in this world) to the matters after death.  
Momin:- There are two main ideologies. One to believe in continuity of life and second to consider that death is the end of life.  
Moazzam :- The velocity and direction of object could determine its destination, so ,certainly momineen/Muslimeen would be the ultimate beneficiary in the second segment of the continuous life.  
Therefore Quran emphasis at THE LIFE BEFORE DEATH.You will never find even a single line written in Quran regarding the shape and formation of LIFE AFTER DEATH.  
Momin :- I think philosophy or ideology of AL-KITAB is based on the concept of firm belief  
in the life here after. We find such ayats in Quran already discussed.  
Moazzam :- No absolutely NOT rather ideology of Alkitab is based on MAKAFAT-E-AMAL.  
Momin :- I know none of you including doctor Qamer and baity Nargis denies life after death but you do not think that Quran requires that.  
Moazzam :- YES up to me it is partially right, Quran requires BASIRAT(concrete inference) AT MAKAFAT-EAMAL which has been described in details in Quran. Also the basirat(concrete inference) ,that who’s life before death is good/ successful (according to alkitab) then HIS LIFE AFTER DEATH (the continuation) WILL ALSO BE GOOD.  

Comments by: Damon On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
Dear Respected Aastana Family,  
 
For me the bottom line is VERIFIABLE CONSEQUENCES!!!  
 
Can the CONSEQUENCES of an individual's or people's actions be SEEN and VERIFIED by human beings in the present life? YES or NO?  
 
Can the CONSEQUENCES of an individual's or people's actions be SEEN and VERIFIED by human beings after death? YES or NO?  
 
Dear Brother Pervez,  
I have PERSONALLY learned alot from your contributions, not just in this thread but through your posts in other threads as well. I would feel as though I am being denied your thoughtful and beneficial knowledge if you decided to give up sharing your insights with us here.  
 
Maybe it would be best If Brother Pervez and Brother William would agree to disagree and refrain from replying to one another for a while until the "heat cooled down".  
 
Until then, SMILE ^ - ^ and be happy that we here have taken the responsibility to discuss and verify things for ourselves which we cannot say the same for most other human beings in this world.  
 
Fi'amanillah,  
Damon

Comments by: momin On 30 April 2011Report Abuse
 
Dear Moazzam and baity Nargis,  
 
You said,  
Moazzam :- YES up to me it is partially right, Quran requires BASIRAT(concrete inference) AT MAKAFAT-EAMAL which has been described in details in Quran. Also the basirat(concrete inference) ,that who’s life before death is good/ successful (according to alkitab) then HIS LIFE AFTER DEATH (the continuation) WILL ALSO BE GOOD.  
 
If you say this based on your knowledge of Quran and you accept that it is in the Quran.  
Quran talks of life after death than there is no difference between us. So it is wrong to  
say that Quran doesn't ask us to have faith in life after death.  
 
Hikmat is basically results intended from a law. Isn't it. Quran tells us that our life will  
continue Hikmat of this law is motivation and progress. Quran tells us to obey the  
values so that we achieve JANNAT by establishing welfare state on earth and develop  
our "self" personality" in this process for further progress. We know that human beings  
could not establish such a state hence could not be proved practically. So divine message  
guides you towards an object it may not be proved than. Similarly,Allah tells you to believe  
in life after death which is law and has its 'hikmat" intended results. That might be proved  
by science in this world and surely after death. This much is enough. Obviously, Quran  
doesn't discuss anything more about that life after death neither it is required.  
 
We should not interpret Quran keeping in mind that it doesn't talk of life after death and  
than interpret every ayat regarding life and death in Quran for life before death. That  
is my point. I hope I have made myself clear.  
 
Thanks Moazzam and baity Nargis.  

Comments by: Zubair On 30 April 2011
“The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.” (Albert Einstein)  
 
Dear Friends,  
 
First, thanks to Brother Momin for initiating this discussion on an extremely important topic. This issue is so important that NASA has spent over a decade and billions of dollars on world’s most powerful telescope to be launched in year 2014. James Webb Space Telescope, which will replace aging Hubble Space Telescope, is expected to look back in space and time when our universe was still in its infancy and find answers to most, if not all, of the questions humans have been pondering since the dawn of humanity. Here are some of the most challenging questions.  
 
Where we came from? (How life began?)  
Why are we here? (What is the purpose of life?)  
Why we die?  
What happens after we die?  
 
Under the influence of our traditional scholars, we look in the Quran and Hadith to find answers to every question. However, others (scorned as infidels by our orthodox clergy) employ study, exploration, discovery, and logic to find the answers. Eventually, who is going to find the answers and solve the puzzle? Any rational person can easily figure it out.  
 
I do not have a clue where I got the idea of life after death. What I know for sure is that I have been a strong believer in the life after death from an early age. I look at things from a very different perspective. Brothers Dr. Qamar, Aurangzaib, Damon, Pervez, and Sisters Maniza and Nargis may understand what I mean. In brief, I never cried when someone died in the family. I took death to mean end of one’s journey in this world and the beginning of another journey in the next. Also, I often told relatives and close friends that when someone is near death, he or she begins to see the unseen world and his or her close relatives, who already moved to the unseen world, may come to greet him or her. At some point I will share with you some personal experiences that support my views.  
 
As far as I understand Quran does point to life after death. Brother Aurangzaib already cited some verses. Hence, I will skip any reference and just go with some logic. If life merely leads us to a dead end, what is the benefit of having Quran? Who will use a Guide knowing that the journey is going to end at a dead end anyway?  
 
If life ends when we die, why would The Creator appoint Messengers and convey The Message? So we enjoy a blissful life on earth? But life on earth is too short and unpredictable. Our Mulvi tell us that our earthly life is only a test. If so, how come not everyone gets equal chance at life? The fact is many die in their mothers’ wombs. Those who survive in their mother’s wombs and come into the world always face uncertainty about life. Also, some of them are healthy while others are disabled. And death is always following everyone like a shadow, ready to strike anywhere and anytime. Is this a fair test?  
 
It took The Creator billions of years to create “life”. What is the point in creating such wonderful life if its destiny is nothingness? Is our creation just a cruel joke?  
 
In order to find answers to the questions related to “life”, we must study and explore the creation. There are over 500 billion galaxies in our universe and each of them contains at least 100 billions starts. What is the purpose of all this creation? If each galaxy has just one solar system like ours, then there might be at least 500 billion earths in the univers. Are those earths already populated? Are they being prepared for humans to discover and populate them some day? There is simply too much to learn and know about the creation. We have not even explored our own Milky Way galaxy yet. If the purpose of “life” is to study, discover, and evolve, then our short lives can never fulfill this pupose. We need to live for millions and, probably, billions years to explore just our own Milky Way galaxy, which possesses over 200 billion stars.  
 
I differ with some of our brothers who claim that people living 1400 years ago did not have the mental capacity to understand complex scientific ideas or theories. Hence, we must read Quran from the perspective of a nomadic Bedouin who lived 1400 years ago. The historical evidence does not support this view. We know for sure people as far back as 5000 years ago were far superior in knowledge and rational thinking than our 21st century Mulvis (all their blind followers included) as well as most of the folks living today. Look at the Egyptian and Mayan Pyramids. Those who built them were highly educated and skilled persons. Same was the case with Arabs 1400 years ago. Otherwise, they would not have been able to translate the great works of Greece scientists. Moreover, those Arabs carried out their own studies and research and contributed immensely to the advancement of sciences. Hence, we have no right to judge their mental capacities. Also, it would be a grave mistake to limit the message of the Quran assuming Arabs could not understand complex ideas.  
 
Here is an excerpt from an online article. You can read the whole article by clicking on the link given below.  
 
“Arab and Moslem scholars left their mark on the European Renaissance. The imprint of the Arab-Islamic culture was predominant, noticeable and effective in many scientific, intellectual and cultural fields. Arab and Muslim scholars invented the numerical system; the figure Zero; the decimal system; the theory of evolution-one hundred years before Darwin; pulmonary circulation -three centuries before Harvey. They discovered gravity and the relationship between weight, speed and distance several centuries before Newton; they measured the speed of light, calculated the angles of reflection and refraction, computed the circumference of the earth, and determined the dimensions of heavenly bodies. They invented astronomical instruments, discovered high seas, and laid down the foundations of chemistry.”  
 
http://www.islamset.com/islam/culture/impact_of.html  
 
I suggest that we study the Quran as if it is being revealed to us right now. There is no need to go back in time and put ourselves in the shoes of an Arab Bedouin to understand the Quran.  
 
Here is another excerpt and links to some interesting articles.  
 
“Personally I have a hard time believing that there is nothing else after life. Most of us put a lot of work into our lives and to arrive at a dead-end, no pun intended, just doesn’t make sense.”  
 
An attempt at answering some of life’s biggest questions  
http://www.lyved.com/body_soul/an-attempt-at-answering-some-of-lifes-biggest-questions/  
 
THE TEN BIG QUESTIONS  
http://www.123infinity.com/  
 
JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE  
http://www.jwst.nasa.gov/about.html  
http://www.jwst.nasa.gov/  
http://webbtelescope.org/webb_telescope/  

Comments by: William On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
Hey Damon,  
 
I was just trying to explain that during a conversation, individuals address each other - this is a forum and members can choose whether or not to participate! I only responded to Pervez directly because of his assertions! There are many forums I participate in, but do not consider myself to have any affiliations with them! The Aastana team deliberate and comment on Quranic ideology, confirming the grammar, syntax and core context of the discourse. This is the reason why I log onto this forum; to learn. However, Aastana seems to be a place I can call my own :)  
 
“Upset” is not a derogatory term, it is used to describe an emotional state. Pervez sounded upset, which is why I said “Please don’t get upset! ”  
 
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/upset  
 
Pronunciation:/ʌpˈsɛt/  
(upsets, upsetting; past and past participle upset)[with object]  
make (someone) unhappy, disappointed, or worried:the accusation upset her(as adjective upsetting)a painful and upsetting divorce  
 
There is no heat from my part anyway... I am not upset... it’s just a discussion.  
 
Thank you!  

Comments by: Damon On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
Salaam William, Bhai,  
 
I understand where you are coming from bro and I as well as everyone else here know that you didn't mean anything derogatory when you told Pervez not to get upset. I was attempting (perhaps poorly) to diffuse the situation so as to prevent any "bad blood" from developing.  
 
Of course, through reading your posts here at Aastana it is obvious to me that you are very mature and you carry yourself in a dignified manner.  
 
I also SECOND your statement you've made above...  
 
(William)"The Aastana team deliberate and comment on Quranic ideology, confirming the grammar, syntax and core context of the discourse. This is the reason why I log onto this forum; to learn."  
 
(Damon) I completely agree :-D  
 
By the way William, If I am not mistaken you are in the U.S.? I'm in Pittsburgh.

Comments by: Nargis2 On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
Brother Damon said:-  
 
 
For me the bottom line is VERIFIABLE CONSEQUENCES!!!  
 
Can the CONSEQUENCES of an individual's or people's actions be SEEN and VERIFIED by human beings in the present life? YES or NO?  
 
Can the CONSEQUENCES of an individual's or people's actions be SEEN and VERIFIED by human beings after death? YES or NO?  
-------------------------------------------------------  
 
Damon bro,,from your post, everything should be crystal mubeen, i mean clear :-D.Thank you so much, you should be excutive member and write in green, ill still have that that kung fu fight one day im in pittsburg and eating hamburg(er)!!! i really like your posts, and im glad to be happy when you came back in black!!!  
 
this is something i wrote earlier but didnt post it, just sharing my thoughts.  
 
we dont need to have anything in our heart or mind while we interpret the Quran, because its message is independent and convey only what it want to( regardless of what we want it to convey)  
 
If we are to blend into our own emotions and beliefs with the message itself, we are just as bad as other cult scholars.  
 
If we think something is in the Quran, then we should refer to the language used in the Qur'an, i.e., linguistics, grammar and syntax, etc. And if we don’t know, we can ask Dr Qamar Uncle, Brother Moazzam, Brother Damon or anyone who knows better than us …  
 
I MYSELF THINK LIFE WILL CONTINUE, BECAUSE I DON’T SEE THE POINT IF ITS NOT GONNA  
 
BUT  
 
I CAN’T SEE THIS STATEMENT IN THE QURAN, NO MATTER HOW I GUESS OR TWIST THE WORDS  
 
Simple and clear  
 
So whatever I predict or no matter what I estimate in my own head, IT won’t change the Quraniq message  
My personal beliefs have no impact on the message, but the message may have an impact on my understanding. That’s why I’m here, to learn and increase my own knowledge based on the Quran. Not to put my own word into the Quran.  
 
Astana is the only place where the message is pure Quraniq and its translation is based on the language syntax grammar etc., without interference from the so called Islamic history, Prophets Sayings, his biography,viewpoints from different firqas or mythology  
 
or else we have another long life student forum too :-O :-)  
 
peace and cake to all, hope no1 is offended or hurt by this post.

Comments by: William On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
Walaikum Salaam Damon,  
 
:D  
 
I realise what you were trying to do :) Thank you! I really appreciate your intervention, as it made me reflect... that’s the beauty of Aastana family!  
 
By the way, I’m from England!  
 
Remember what Shariq posted... the story of Damon and Pythias, perhaps we can revive such friendship... So you wanna go for a cup of coffee? hahahahahaha... just kidding!  
 
I’ve always been fascinated by your posts, you make some solid points! I’ve learnt a lot from you... so thank you.  
 
Nargis,  
 
What can I say... you make a lot of sense to me. Thank goodness you are here too! Nargis, you should get the Admin to change your font to red, because your words KILL!  
 
I would like to say sorry if I offended anyone... it was not my intention to do so.  
 
Thank you.  

Comments by: Damon On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
Dear Sister Nargis,  
 
Thank You for your kind words. But I must honestly state that I am not worthy of executive status here. Between you and me, based on our respective track records and contributions at this forum, you are a thousand steps ahead of me for consideration of executive status. I have something really, REALLY important to say so please read the following words very carefully....  
 
IT IS NOT ONLY YOUR BRILLIANCE AND INTELLIGENCE, BUT YOUR STYLE OF EXPLANATION, THE WORDS YOU CHOOSE AND YOUR TALENT FOR ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS IN THE RIGHT WAY ARE THE REASONS THAT I HAVE LEARNED MUCH MORE FROM YOU THAN YOU HAVE FROM ME.  
 
The above words aren't flattery, IT IS THE TRUTH!!!  
 
Also, I cannot go up against you in a Kung Fu fight. My art is Kodokan Judo, so I'll just wait for you to throw a punch at me so I can grab your arm and let you get a taste of my arm bar :-)  
 
Dear William,  
 
I am trying so desperately to wean myself off of the coffee and shake my addiction of it. Your offers of going out for a coffee makes you a bad influence on me. My Mum may not allow me to hang out with you anymore :-)  
 
Dear Pervez,  
 
If you are reading this post, I humbly beseech you to please keep sharing your knowledge and insight here with others. Most times, these differences of views and understandings is what lays the grounds for asking key questions and arriving at revolutionary conclusions and discoveries. Your contributions would be most beneficial for this growth process.  
 
A parting thought to this post. Through my replies to Brother Aurangzaib in this thread I have made statements such as "WE don't get it"...WE have to get a hint.....WE are losing because we are apathetic and pessimistic, WE seem to be satisfied with talking and complaining, etc. I wish to make it clear that I did not mean the people here ate Aastana when I said We. I was talking about the common people in general...the non-elite. And I include MYSELF in that category as well. The way I see it, if I am not a part of the solution then I may be a part of the problem.  
 
Thank You All.  
 
Fi'amanillah,  
Damon.

Comments by: UmeAimon On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
Verifiable not verifiable…  
 
uhmm wait a sec...lets think . So when people are asking when will the day of whatever come(let s asume its us) the messenger should not be saying it will be sooner than you think because most of them will not only be unable to verify but will be dead long before it arives… Quran says to look at other nations how they survived and got destroyed !! But the thing is again since most will be dead before they see the fruit of their labour, where is the motivation factor here? perhaps the generations to come :(  
 
It makes me think though, that Chinese history should be a better guide than anything else as its also well preserved! And why shouldn’t it be..I find more wisdom there than in anything else.  
 
ohhh so the aethiests were right after all! Because now we need to verify GOD first before wasting your time in Quran.  
 
Thanks for the guidance dears, you just solved the mystery.  
 
UmeAimon

Comments by: Junaid On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
**(But the thing is again since most will be dead before they see the fruit of their labour, where is the motivation factor here?) by UmeAimon  
**(ohhh so the aethiests were right after all! Because now we need to verify GOD first before wasting your time in Quran.) by UmeAimon  
 
Dear sister;  
 
I don't thing anyone on this forum has denied the concept of life after death. I don't know how you got to this conclusion, because at least I cannot see any such denial on this forum. Yes you can say that there is a confusion which is quite evident and it should be, since we are debating on something which is still unclear and a bit mixed up. Probably thats why I said earlier on that this debate will get us nowhere :)  
 
Let me ask you something;  
 
Why do we need verification of GOD and his existence? Why do we need motivation to live in a state of peace and harmony? Don't you think peace and harmony itself is a motivation? Don't you think struggle for betterment, striving against injustice and inequality, itself is a motivation?  
 
Please allow me to share some of my observations here;  
 
Concept of life is not just restricted to individuals, rather it encompasses the society or mankind on the whole. It includes generations from the past, present and of course the future. Likewise a speech, a message for mankind is meant to be addressed to masses and not individuals. It is more about a collective approach to ponder and reflect. Think about millions of cells collectively forming a complex mechanism for example human body. When we talk about the human body on the whole, we cannot focus on a single cell, although the cell is important in itself. This is what Quran is about. It's about mankind as a whole and the instructions guarantee a result only through collective efforts and not just individual ones.  
 
What is the concept of collective efforts?  
 
In my previous post, I gave the example of a seed which is sown in the ground and we expect the end result in form of fruit through a natural process. We believe in the process and it's outcome because of our experience from the past. Now this experience is not necessarily a personal experience or something we observed by our own, rather it may be an observation of our ancestors which was transfered to us in form of knowledge and now we are utilizing this knowledge for our benefit. This is life, and this is what it's all about. A continuous process which goes on and on while old generations are replaced by new ones.  
 
Mankind in 21st century has inherited this earth, all the natural resources and all the scientific development or knowledge from it's ancestors, the previous generations. Every human being has equal right on everything being produced as a result of natural processes or scientific/ technological advancement. There is no special treatment for anyone whatsoever. This is true Life and this is how it is supposed to be. However it is very unfortunate that mankind has altered this concept of true life. All the resources, the knowledge, the scientific advancements have been restricted by few elites while rest of the people have been barred.  
People cannot use what is meant for them, but through permissions or rights granted by elites in form of corporations and governments. Mostly these rights are denied and that is the reason why a majority is living in a miserable condition. Even more unfortunate is the fact that mankind has compromised with the situation in sense that they now consider it as their fate. We cannot differentiate East or West in this regard. In West, the common men and their thoughts have been compromised through mass communication and media campaigns whereas in East, a much easier process has been used in form of Religion. Yes the same religious campaigns which deprived the so called "Muslims" of their superiority and the same religious campaigns which converted the Israelis into human machines functioning only to create conspiracies and chaos.  
 
What I mean to say is that being normal human beings, we have been granted the potential in form of capacity to think and reflect, and we need to utilize our potential to understand whats going on around us. What I have understood so far is that the rights of mankind to share what has been inherited to us through our previous generations, is being exploited. Our earth, it's natural resources, all the knowledge inherited through previous generations, our right of freedom, everything is now under control of few elites. Laws, legislation, copy / patent rights, economic activities, all are designed to favor the elites, the top 3% while 97% of the population on this earth is living a life of virtual slavery somehow or other.  
Human beings are barred from utilizing natural resources through rights of ownerships, taxation, registrations and subjugation in favor of governments, who themselves are subservient to the corporations owned by elites. Economies are designed in such a way that money has become the most important yet the scarcest resource. Money being created as debt, providing benefits to the elites creating a situation where a common man is forced to work for nothing but to pay off the debts. The situation is worst because people are using all their means to get hold of this thing called "money" so that they could pay their debts out of the scarcity leaving others in a state of deprivation. Demand is being created through media for unnecessary consumption just to facilitate the modern economic design of consumption and production. In this situation, not everyone gets hold of what is known as "money", hence they are barred from consuming the basic necessities of life for example food or shelter.  
This lust for profit and money has lead us to a situation where we are on the edge of destroying out natural ecosystem through excessive pollution and we are heading towards a disaster through global warming. Our elites, the modern Pharaohs will never accept this, otherwise they'll have to lose a lot of money by reducing their profits by taking suitable measures to reduce elements of pollution and global warming.  
 
Talking about education and scientific development, all the modern research in the fields of science and technology is being conducted through sponsorships where corporations pay money to the scientists to get the results which would benefit the elites. Copy right, patent rights, degrees, certifications, all these concepts have become means of generating profits and getting desired results. Those who cannot afford to pay, cannot acquire education.  
Think about the scientific developments in the field of aerospace technology. They say they've conquered space and landed on the moon. My question is, who are the real beneficiaries of all this? Only 0.1% elites? What is the outcome? Only a ever glooming "boom and bust" based economic design. How can they even think about spending trillions of dollars to go to moon when 50000 human beings are dying everyday on earth due to hunger and poverty? Whats the use of all this?  
Think about the most advanced development in the field of science. What is it? Of course the modern warfare technology. Who are the real beneficiaries? The answer is elites and their arms manufacturing corporations. what contribution does these scientific developments are making in my life or yours?  
 
Health and medical sciences are facing the same scenario where drugs are being manufactured by corporations to earn profits, and not to cure diseases. You cannot pay the huge amount to buy the medicine, you cannot afford to pay the doctor's fee, means you don't deserve the treatment. Doctors being paid by medical reps to sell their brands, healthcare organizations being sponsored by drug manufacturers to approve their medicines and allow them to be sold in the market, researchers being paid by corporations to convince masses through media that so and so drug is good for the disease and they must use it etc. etc.  
 
This is our system where profit is everything while human values are nothing. Our system where war is considered as means of economic boom. Where media is owned by corporations built on the concept of profit, where people are being fed through media to accept every unnatural aspect as a part of nature. What are we doing?  
 
Now come to the main point. Life after death is something which is still under discussion and not yet finalized, however the information I've shared with you all is a proven reality. What should we do now? Should we keep on discussing something which is meant to happen in future, or should we try and change our present?  
 
My answer is that, as a part of this system, we need to try and change all this and to revive the concept of mutual sharing, freedom, peace and harmony for mankind. Please remember that this can not happen overnight. As I have mentioned above that our life is a continuous process, and what we do today will effect our coming generations. It's time for us to think about what our ancestors have left for us and that what we are going to leave for our next generation. This Is our motivation. A concept of struggle, to revive basic human rights, justice, equality, freedom, peace and harmony. If we cannot participate in this process, we have got no right to think about next life. That life will be the same for us if we cannot change our existing life. A same stagnant life where we wont be doing anything but thinking!  
 
We all emphasize on the concept of welfare state. Do you all think this state will be created automatically? Of course not. It's we, who will have to take a firm stand. This state cannot be created without practical struggle. As components of this system, as a part of this society, all of us are required to participate within our capacities in this process. Even is we cannot change things in our life, we can die with a satisfaction that we have initiated the process and our next generations will achieve this goal. This should be our motivation!!!!  
 
Note: Brilliant Members of Aastana are all equally respectable to me and I mean no offense to any participant. Just trying to share my thoughts if you could understand.  

Comments by: aurangzaib On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
Dear Friends William, Damon, Pervez, Nargis,  
 
I am sure nothing so serious whatsoever has happened that may preclude the valuable participation of Brother Pervez from this learning forum.  
 
After Brother Damon's most loving appeals, not even a stone-heart could successfully resist a gradual softening, resulting into a reciprocal response!  
 
And allow me to tell all of you here that Brother Pervez is the senior most Quranist in this forum. Let there be no misunderstanding among our family about his convictions. He is a firm Quranist in his 2nd consecutive generation. His attachment with Quranic discipline enjoys an aura of Romanticism which he cherishes as his priceless treasure. The emotionless mechanical side of our debates does not appeal to him much. He does not believe in an affiliation of a mere worthless 60-75 years of physical existence. And he does not believe in the total annihilation of a conscious self (a meaning-seeking human) so prematurely. Our love of God, and God's love of us demand a much longer continuity of life on a much higher level of existence, near to our Lord, the Creator.  
 
We all do believe in life after death. But we wish to see it specifically highlighted in the Quranic text. OK?  
We will see to that in the coming discussions - with Brother Pervez in our company.  
 
God bless all.

Comments by: pervez On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
My Dear brother Aurangzeb,  
 
 
 
1. How could I remain silent after reading your post. I don't think I am worthy of good words you  
wrote about me. But certainly, I always valued love in life. My weakness and my strength is my heart.  
I consider it a sin, if I fail to respond to anyone who loves. Thanks so much for your good feelings and  
good wishes. Allah bless you. I have the same feelings for you.  
 
A few words for brother Junaid who wrote,  
 
"I don't thing anyone on this forum has denied the concept of life after death. I don't know how you got to this conclusion, because at least I cannot see any such denial on this forum. Yes you can say that there is a confusion which is quite evident and it should be, since we are debating on something which is still unclear and a bit mixed up. Probably thats why I said earlier on that this debate will get us nowhere :) by Junaid  
 
Brother you are right no one has denied life after death but as brother Aurangzeb has rightly brought out,  
 
"We all do believe in life after death. But we wish to see it specifically highlighted in the Quranic text. OK?"  
 
2. Why we want that? reasons are,  
 
a. We consider Quran as a complete guide for human life. Nothing important should be left over.  
It will have its impact on complete translation of Quran and on our out look to life.  
 
 
b. The purpose of human life is development of human self, khoodi or personality. That  
is the goal. Life at the stage of human beings can not be compared with any stage of  
life prior to it. Human beings have attained consciousness which is required to progress  
further to a more evolved stage where death will become meaningless. We should not  
compare cell life with human personality which is completely a new stage in evolution  
of life to self consciousness.  
 
c. Question arises, if we accept this reality, why shouldn't we have this end in view? Why  
shouldn't this be our motivation instead of progress of mankind,peace etc. That will  
any way serve as means in achievement of that end and not an impediment.  
 
 
d. Why not have our aim high. Nigah booland , sookhan dilnawaz, jan pur suz  
Yahe hai rukhtay safar mir-i-karwan k liay.  
 
kIA MAI NAI OOS KHAKDAN SAI KINARA  
JAHAN RIZK KA NAM HAI AB-O-DANA.  
Iqbal  
(c) Appreciation of any aspect of life depends on correct picking of aim/goal/objective.  
You pick up a wrong aim and your appreciation will go for a fix. We must pick up correct  
aim of life from Quran. That will help us in correct appreciation, to take correct decisions  
and make best plans for our life with life giving emotions. No hopelessness, worry of  
extinction effecting one's psychological health and happiness adversely.  
 
Dear Sister UmeiAiman,  
 
I read your post time and again and appreciate your "akl-i-saleem"  
Points you raised are quiet logical.  
Regards  
 
 
 
 

Comments by: bob On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
Quote Dr Qamar Zaman  
 
The life after death described in religion is not the Topic of Quran. Whatever described about Heaven and Hell is about the life of this world. It will be surprising to note that the first verse about heaven clearly shows it to be of this world. Verse 25 of sura 2 quotes the statement of the people of Heaven.  
 
"Whenever they were given reward from it they said this is the same we were given before."  
 
This means heaven has been repeatedly rewarded to Momins even before. Now to confirm these words (rozeqoo) (Qaloo ) (Rozeqna) are in past tense pick up dictionary of Quran by Rasheed Nomani and see for yourself.  
 
The Quran is for the living beings and describes the events of this world in relations to human rights.  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=121  
 

Comments by: Damon On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
Salaam Respected Aastana Family,  
 
I would like to post my own concluding remarks for this discussion...  
 
(Junaid) - you can say that there is a confusion which is quite evident and it should be, since we are debating on something which is still unclear and a bit mixed up. Probably thats why I said earlier on that this debate will get us nowhere  
 
(Damon) - I think Junaid may be correct that this discussion will probably get us nowhere and we should all be careful of dragging out a discussion that may prove somewhat fruitless after all. I think we should put more of our energies in the concepts we do have in common and implementing them somewhere on Planet Earth.  
 
But my own concluding remarks on this issue are as follows:  
 
Everyone here believes that there is life after death and we believe that The Quran does allude to such in certain ayaat.  
 
Everyone here also believes that The Quran gives the needed guidance for human beings to establish a Quranic Welfare State not only for the sake of justice, but also for the sake of an environment which facilitates development of human self, khoodi or personality which is required to attain a more evolved stage after death.  
 
This is enough for me to move on and continue to play my part in the overall mission.  
 
Allah Hafiz,  
Damon.

Comments by: bob On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
The confusion of life after death is not regarding the Quran and its statements, please read through Dr Qamar Zamans reply; it may clear the confusion regarding the Quran. Those who believe that the Quran talks about life after death must prove it, through the Quran and its own words, grammar and syntax.  
 
If not they are able to do so, everyone is free to continue their belief of any kind  
 
 

Comments by: Junaid On 01 May 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Brother Pervez, I normally judge people through their speech or writings. I have read your posts earlier on and I can say that you deserve the appreciation which was beautifully presented by brother aurangzaib. In fact I am just an ordinary student in search of light and my knowledge is too meager to comment on Quranic text. That is the reason why I am trying not to quote anything from Quran regarding this particular topic.  
I would to clear one misunderstanding here. I never meant to compare an individual or human being with cell. Rather my purpose was to illustrate the role of an individual in this world or society. We all know that the population of world is around 4 billion right now, and that a particular human being is a part of this system on the whole. Although very important in himself but that individual cannot change things alone. Just like a cell which is important in itself, being the part of human body but it cannot change the body all alone. Yes you are right that a cell cannot be compared to human being, because human being posses the capacity to think and decide and he can work on his own whereas a cell is bound to function according to law of nature.  
The main objective of my previous post was to identify the Pharaohs of modern world and the importance of following the footsteps of Moses (pbuh) or Muhammad (pbuh) to stand firmly against the odds of the system.  
 
I agree with you that the purpose of human life is to develop self/ khudi / personality but this khudi cannot develop without contradicting oppression, tyranny, suppression, injustice and inequality. How can you expect interpersonal development in an environment full of injustice? How can you develop your khudi while you are watching people dying around you, not just by hunger and poverty but also by the hands of greedy aggressors aiming to capture or exploit resources for their profits, using drones and missiles against helpless.  
How can you be develop your Khudi when you are bound to become the part of an unjust economic system in order to earn money to satisfy your basic needs?  
How can you develop your inner self, being a part of a society being ruled on the principles of "Kleptocracy"?  
How can you develop your Khudi when you hear the news everyday that a person killed himself due to hunger and poverty, being unable to feed his children and on the other hand you watch your politicians, bureaucrats, living the utmost luxurious life?  
How can you develop your "self / personality" while you see 50000 people dying everyday of hunger at one side of the world, while you see millions of dollars being spent by corporate executives on their luxurious lives? Or when you see billions of dollars being wasted on production of weapons of mass destruction?  
I am unable to understand brother. It's not that I am seeing things in their negative perspective, rather I am talking about reality, a bitter truth. Perhaps it's the weakness in my personality that I cannot ignore all these facts :(  
 
Yes you can be very kind to others, you can behave nicely to your juniors and seniors, you can have high moral ethics and you can refine your behavior and can control your will power, but this good personality of yours cannot change the things around you unless you take a firm stand against the odd system. In short, development of self or personal development can enhance your own personality, but it will not have any positive effect on the system unless majority takes the stand and speak against the Pharaohs. It's like I am good within myself and you are good within yourself but we both are unable to change this world because we are talking to each other yet we don't know each other, we are not joining our hands in a collective effort and that we are still discussing what to do and what not to.  
As per my understanding, the real aim of life according to the context of Quran is "Struggle", a continuous and a never ending struggle. Initiation of this struggle is the necessity of today and this needs to be passed on to our next generation and then next, until they could restore the true order, the law of Allah.  
 
Note: I am trying not to deviate the topic "life after death" to a new direction. my apologies in advance, if I did so.  
Probably I am unable to comprehend your point, therefore I would request you to kindly elaborate, the difference between personal development and practical struggle according to you point of view, or do you believe these two are the sides of the same coin?

Comments by: UmeAimon On 02 May 2011Report Abuse
Salam , to be honest I can't read too much. I have my limitations. But I'll start off by some questions..  
What were Fir-eon's "darbaaris" referring to when he threatened them with their lives?  
Did the "logics" that Musa ES gave and convinced them with, made them say such thing?  
Why it needed to be written in Quran??  
surah Taha ayat 72.  
 
UmeAimon

Comments by: aurangzaib On 02 May 2011Report Abuse
Dear participants,  
 
Dear Bob wrote:  
 
“The confusion of life after death is not regarding the Quran and its statements, please read through Dr Qamar Zamans reply; it may clear the confusion regarding the Quran. Those who believe that the Quran talks about life after death must prove it, through the Quran and its own words, grammar and syntax”.  
 
Aurangzaib wrote:  
 
“We all do believe in life after death. But we wish to see it specifically highlighted in the Quranic text. OK?  
We will see to that in the coming discussions - with Brother Pervez in our company. “  
--------------------------------------------------------  
 
And now we embark upon the most difficult venture –--- that of proving the LIFE AFTER DEATH (Al-Aakhira) from Quran, in the face of a powerful opposition from the majority of Aastana members.  
 
Bob relied mainly upon Verse 2/25 pointing out the Past form of "tense" about Heavenly rewards. Let us see if we can agree with that contention. Please note Bob, the sentence starts :-  
 
وَبَشِّرِ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ أَنَّ لَهُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي  
 
It starts Bob, with an imperative form, where the Rusool is being ordered to announce glad tidings to people of peace, and to those carrying out reformative and constructive deeds, that, for them, there are “Gardens with streams of fresh water flowing underneath”. Right Bob?  
 
Now tell me Bob, (1) WHAT “TENSE IS AN IMPERATIVE VERB” (فعل امر )? Obviously, an ORDER to do something, cannot pertain to a time period already passed! If it so does, it will become meaningless!  
 
AND………  
 
(2) WHAT TENSE IS A “GOOD NEWS CONSISTING A PROMISE”? Does a promise EVER BELONG TO PAST?– TO A PERIOD THAT HAS GONE BY – PASSED OUT? No Bob. A promise always pertains to FUTURE! Or it becomes ambiguous, isn’t it so?  
 
So your contention, or theory of Past Tense, here, can conveniently be overruled.  
 
BECAUSE, the next part of the Verse starting “Kullama Ruziqu Minha…..” would be dictated, in terms of its tense, by the tense of the first imperative part of the sentence!  
 
Then there is eternity here too, Bob. Look at “Wa Hum Feehaa Khaalidoon” – And they WILL CONTINUE TO LIVE THEREIN ETERNALLY! What do you think about that? You won’t be able to prove here that God is talking about the continuity of their COMING GENERATIONS within this phenomenal world, and not talking about the addressees themselves! It says “AND “THEY” WILL….!” AND IN THIS PHYSICAL LIFE BOB, NO ONE CAN BE “KHALIDOON”, i.e., LIVING FOR EVER! “KHILD” always comes in the context of Aakhira.  
 
To cut the long story short, I won’t prolong my thesis with more examples for now. Bob himself has referred to a link where the last two postings had amply proved the highlighting of Aakhirat by Quran. That link (the last two postings) need to be re-studied. Brother Moazzam, in the very last post of that link, has confirmed his agreement with my contention after going through my preceding post. The link is:  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=40&QID=1217  
 
Sis UMEAIMON'S latest quote from SURA TAHA, AYAT 72, is very pertinent and brings forth another solid argument in favour of Quran's MENTION OF LIFE AFTER DEATH. It is one of many other Verses where HAYAT AD-DUNIYA has been compared with the AAKHIRA. Thank you Sis.  
 
I hope for the best.

Comments by: bob On 02 May 2011Report Abuse
Dear Brother Aurungzaib  
 
Here is Dr Qamar Zamans translation of this verse  
 
2:25  
 
وَبَشِّرِ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ أَنَّ لَهُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ ۖ كُلَّمَا رُزِقُوا مِنْهَا مِن ثَمَرَةٍ رِّزْقًا ۙ قَالُوا هَٰذَا الَّذِي رُزِقْنَا مِن قَبْلُ ۖ وَأُتُوا بِهِ مُتَشَابِهًا ۖ وَلَهُمْ فِيهَا أَزْوَاجٌ مُّطَهَّرَةٌ ۖ وَهُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ  
 
 
ان لوگوں کو خوش خبری سنائیں جو اہل امن ہوئے اور جنہوں نے صلاحیت بخش اعمال کئے کہ انہیں ایسی مملکتیں ملیں گی جن کی ماتحتی میں خوشحالیا ں رواں دواں ہونگی جب کبھی ماضی میں بھی ان مملکتوں سےانکو ان کے اعمال کے سبب انعام سے نوازہ گیا تو انہوں نے ہمیشہ یہ ہی کہا کہ یہ تو وہی نعمت ہے یااس جیسی ہے جو اس سے پہلے بھی ہم جیسوں کو دی گئی اور ان کے لئے ان مملکتوں میں پاکیزہ ذہن ساتھی ہونگے۔ وہ اس میں اس وقت تک رہیں گے جب تک امن و صلاحیت بخش اعمال کرتے رہیں گے۔  
 
 
مباحث:۔  
یہاں نوٹ فرما لیجئے کہ ا لفاظ رزقوا ،قالوا ،رزقنا، اتوا تمام کے تمام ماضی کے صیغے ہیں ،انکا ترجمع مستقبل میں کرنا قرآن کی تحریف ہے اور انسانوں کو اس دنیا کے اعمال سے غافل کرنے کا باعث بنتا ہے۔ یہ الجنت اسی دنیا میں ہے ۔اور ہمارے اعمال کے سبب ملتی ہے ۔اسلئے جنت کا ترجمع مملکت کیا گیا ہے ،جو اسی دنیا میں ملتی ہے۔  
 
VS Orthodox translations :-  
 
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=2&from_verse=25&to_verse=26&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_transliteration=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_french=1&show_spanish=1&show_indonesian=1&show_melayu=1&show_german=1&show_russian=1&show_bosnian=1&show_urdu=1  
 
http://quran.com/2  
 
Brother Aurungzaib:-  
""Sis UMEAIMON'S latest quote from SURA TAHA, AYAT 72, is very pertinent and brings forth another solid argument in favour of Quran's MENTION OF LIFE AFTER DEATH. It is one of many other Verses where HAYAT AD-DUNIYA has been compared with the AAKHIRA.""  
 
Quoting Dr Qamar Zaman  
 
In my humble opinion all these events are from this world ad not from the world outside this earth.There are certain reasons and arguments in support,  
The basic concept of the life in this world and the world after should be made very clear.  
الحیاۃ الد نیا is a life which has a worldly qualities .If it is translated as Life of this world then it will be a wrong translation.because الحیاۃ الد نیا is compound called مرکب توصیفی  
having a noun and an adjective.  
الد نیا is quality of الحیاۃ …….so الحیاۃ الدنیا means a life of low standard.  
If the compound is حیاۃ الاخرہ then it will mean life of the world.  
So one has to be very clear about the rules of the Arabic grammar while translating.  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=41&QID=171

Comments by: UmeAimon On 02 May 2011Report Abuse
So Bob bhai , your arguement is they are saying that, " you (fir-eon) only have power over our LOW LIFE!" when he threatened them ?? :)))  
Well there are reasons I chose this verse...i may tell some other time but can anyone please give his/ her thoughts on this one.  
regards

Comments by: pervez On 02 May 2011Report Abuse
Dear brother Aurangzeb,  
 
1. Due to some commitment I couldn't read everyone's comments, however , I have read your above  
comments particularly, You said,  
 
"Then there is eternity here too, Bob. Look at “Wa Hum Feehaa Khaalidoon” – And they WILL CONTINUE TO LIVE THEREIN ETERNALLY! What do you think about that? You won’t be able to prove here that God is talking about the continuity of their COMING GENERATIONS within this phenomenal world, and not talking about the addressees themselves! It says “AND “THEY” WILL….!” AND IN THIS PHYSICAL LIFE BOB, NO ONE CAN BE “KHALIDOON”, i.e., LIVING FOR EVER! “KHILD” always comes in the context of Aakhira."  
 
You have nailed the coffin. ' ” AND IN THIS PHYSICAL LIFE BOB, NO ONE CAN BE “KHALIDOON”, i.e., LIVING FOR EVER!  
 
You have given irrefutable argument to prove that Quran gives us the required motivation for life after death.  
Well done brother.  
 
Dear Junaid,  
You wrote,  
"Iagree with you that the purpose of human life is to develop self/ khudi / personality but this khudi cannot develop without contradicting oppression, tyranny, suppression, injustice and inequality. How can you expect interpersonal development in an environment full of injustice? How can you develop your khudi while you are watching people dying around you, not just by hunger and poverty but also by the hands of greedy aggressors aiming to capture or exploit resources for their profits, using drones and missiles against helpless."  
 
Junaid my brother, I fully agree with you. You need to study Philosophy of Allama Iqbal. His  
concept of "Merday Momin" , His concept Of "Shaheen" , Read "Iblees ki Majlas-i-shura." His  
famous poem , "Shikwa and jawab-i-shikwa", read his book , Israr-i-khoodi and ramooz-i- bay  
khoodi and much more. You will be clear how you can develope your personality, khoodi or self.  
 
Dear brother bob, I request you also to please read Allama Iqbal. For God's sake. You will  
understand Quranic philosophy.  
 

Comments by: bob On 02 May 2011Report Abuse
Umeaimon :So Bob bhai , your arguement is they are saying that, " you (fir-eon) only have power over our LOW LIFE!" when he threatened them ?? :)))  
 
Bob:the verse is like this  
 
orthodox ALREADY EXISTING translations  
 
Yusuf Ali 72: They said: "Never shall we regard thee as more than the Clear Signs that have come to us, or than Him Who created us! so decree whatever thou desirest to decree: for thou canst only decree (touching) the life of this world.  
 
 
Shakir 72: They said: We do not prefer you to what has come to us of clear arguments and to He Who made us, therefore decide what you are going to decide; you can only decide about this world's life.  
 
 
Pickthal 72: They said: We choose thee not above the clear proofs that have come unto us, and above Him Who created us. So decree what thou wilt decree. Thou wilt end for us only this life of the world.  
 
 
الحیاۃ الدنیا means a life of low standard.  
 
sister Umeaimon, do you think living in mental slavery under Pharaohs rules was a life of high standard? Living in slavery is a life of high standard?How would pharaoh have control over the life given by the Quran, which is changing their mental excellence and as a result, their quality of life?  
 
I would request Brother Qamar Zaman or brother Moazzam to explain the verse in detail if it’s not obvious.  
 
Here you can see the word alhayat and Dunya (a noun and adjective)  
 
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=20&verse=72#%2820:72:18%29  
 
Thank you

Comments by: aurangzaib On 02 May 2011Report Abuse
Dear Bob,  
 
You have rightly reproduced Dr. QZ's translations. These translations are done with a conviction that Quran speaks for this world alone. They can't be declared wrong given the amplitude of scope provided by Arabic words' vast meanings - grammar rules included.  
 
The translations emphasized by me, Brother Pervez, Sis UmeAimon are with a conviction that Quran speaks for both the worlds. The amplitude of possibilities in Root meanings also help us in deriving our meanings.  
 
About حیاۃ الدنیا being مرکب توصیفی, I think Bob, taking Duniya as "this World", this term BECOMES also مرکب اضافی , i.e., LIFE OF THIS WORLD, grammatically, of course. And the Lexicons do testify to this commonly known meanings of Duniya.  
 
And I will quote Sis UmeAimon's latest argument too, which is very effective:-  
 
"So Bob bhai , your arguement is they are saying that, " you (fir-eon) only have power over our LOW LIFE!" when he threatened them ?? :))) "  
 
We are of course free to follow our choices.  
 
 
THE RIDDLE HOWEVER REMAINS:-  
 
Since you and we all believe in life after death (I understand you have confirmed it about yourself), naturally, we can't believe in something not supported by Quran. So, it is there in Quran - that's why we believe in it.  
 
If we believe in it, as we have repeatedly confirmed, and if it is not in Quran, let us be straightforward and outrightly reject this belief.  
 
If we still believe in it and then continue opposing its existence in Quran, then it is a معمہ ہے سمجھنے کا نہ سمجھانے کا  
(Mo'ammah hay samajhne ka na samjhaane ka....).  
 
Is there something from the Great Maestro, Mohammad Rafi about this kind of stalemate?

Comments by: Junaid On 03 May 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Respected fellow members;  
While this interesting and never ending debate continues, please allow me to ask one question.  
 
What could possibly be the criteria of success in the next life or life after death? Any answers?  
 
I hope my question is not irrelevant to the topic of discussion.

Comments by: bob On 03 May 2011Report Abuse
Dear brother Aurangzeb  
 
I used to believe the Quran talked about life after death, but ever since I started my journey through the world of knowledge, it led me to a different and more sensible understanding of Quran, which clearly asks for proof if an assertion is made. This changed my perception and I started to read the Quran as a book of logic, sense and proofs vs. an unreliable book of myths and folklore.Today the foundation of my understanding is different. I would in fact doubt the Quran to be divine if it couldn’t back up its own claims with explanations or proofs, while it asks others to back up their claims.  
 
It would be contradictory to ask others to provide proof and evidence when claiming something, and not conforming to this requirement itself.  
 
If life after death is not in this world or no one can confirm it to exist (with concrete evidence), I wonder about two things:  
 
1) Why would God provide information about something that is beyond our ability to understand? Or even try to prove it?As we can only understand this world!  
 
 
2) How would God prove something which is beyond our ability to understand, out of our comprehension?  
 
(But my personal opinion is based on impressions I get through signals perceived by my senses. My personal opinion that there is a sequel to this life is purely based on how I perceive this world and life in general. It will not have any impact on the Quraniq message what so ever. The author of the Quran has chosen what message to convey and what was intended for us to be concentrate evidence)  
 
The reason why I refer to Dr Qamar Zaman is because it is the latest and most outstanding translation based on syntax and grammar. If there is some recent research on the Quran better than the present one, I would really like to see. Orthodox translations are already available and they make no sense, Salat becomes namaz and soum becomes fasting whenever suited.  
 
We can either look at the Quran as a religious book talking about mythology, or a book of human rights in force as a complete supervision in the provable concrete world. That’s our choice  
 
Ikk moamma hai, samjhne ka na samjhane ka  
Not the Maestro but Kishore Kumar :)  
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EV968mORAY  
 
The Maestro also has a message about this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnKBl5nCiE8 :):)

Comments by: UmeAimon On 03 May 2011Report Abuse
Salam again,  
 
So Bob bhai if hayatidunniya is already a low life then, “gazabum minr rubehim wa zillatu fil hiyatid dunya...”, would mean what ?  
 
Actually bhai Aurangzaib, you are right in a way it’s the convictions or perception we already have in minds that make us understand things as we do AND KEEP INSISTING ON IT. I think it has always been like that even with Quran. The very reason of differences in understandings among even Quranists!  
 
But the book claims to be free of any contradiction so applying wrong meaning will create problem somewhere…  
 
Having said that, to me Akhirat, hisaab or qayama – is the Law of Requital in any form, a natural consequence of every thing INCLUDING life itself! I see that as part of nature: The way it recycles, the way energy keeps changing its form.  
 
Didn’t God in Quran say every thing is going to die…EVERYTHING!!! So saying, “They’ll live in there forever...”, or even, “they’ll live in a condition as long as they ….”, after declaring death for all, makes it meaningless! As even if we are able to establish such and such rule, it’s going to end soon! SO what is the purpose? Also why we reproduce? To me the only purpose of reproducing ourselves is to ease the weaker stage of life nothing else! but the thing is IF we know we are going to be dead anyway why don’t we make it easy on ourselves and just find an easy way out of it just when we know we are no longer fit for this earth anymore instead of producing more like us and making life harder on them too...  
 
But only when we understand that death may not be what we see it is… that is it is just the Akhira of the life itself and not the END of it...and thus giving meaning to coming to life in the first place and giving sense to keep creating more life and keep reproducing!!!  
 
Yes its simply what “ thhumma ilaehe turjaeoon“ in the end for me atleast.  
Can anyone give his her understanding about what “going back to Allah” actually means?  
 
UmeAimon  
 
 
 

Comments by: Nargis2 On 03 May 2011Report Abuse
Sister umeAimon im copy pasting my own lovely and nice post  
 
17:51  
 
"Who will cause us To return?" Say: "He who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, And say, "When will that be?" Say, "May be It will be quite soon!  
 
We don’t know where to RETURN, there is no proof of us being with God and now we are goin to RETURN at that place with Allah.  
 
 
الَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَتْهُم مُّصِيبَةٌ قَالُوا إِنَّا لِلَّهِ وَإِنَّا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ  
 
2:156. Who say, when afflicted with calamity: "To Allah We belong, and to Him is our return":-  
 
Why would they say they belong to Allah and to him they will return? How do they know they have been there? It said lillahi, and it is commandments of Allah. People will say they are in favor of the divine commandments/Laws,orders and they will return to them.  
 
How will they do that?  
 
By turning towards them, implement and FOLLOW them because these commandments are the basic human rights, and that’s the origin of every human. Human beings have been created without discrimination, everyone is equally worthy of respect (17:70)  
 
Human beings started to discriminate between each other when they left Lillahi( Divine commandments that give everyone equal rights, ref. Adam and Iblees/Haqiqate malaika),  
 
But now they say they will RETURN TO THEM. They will return to the original divine commandments for humanity, they will again restore themselves to become humans/  
 
Dr Uncles translation 2:156  
 
الَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَتْهُم مُّصِيبَةٌ قَالُوا إِنَّا لِلَّهِ وَإِنَّا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ  
 
 
یہ وہ لوگ ہیں کہ ان پر جب کوئی مصیبت واقع ہوتی ہے تو کہتے ہیں کہ ہم احکامات الہی کے لئے ہیں اور اسی کی طرف رجوع کرنے والے ہیں۔  
 
 
مباحث:۔  
احکامات الہی کے لئے ہونے سے کیا مراد ہے۔ بنیادی طور پر کوئی بھی حکم ہو اس کی غایت اس پر عمل ہوتا ہے۔ اس لئے ہم احکامات الہی کے لئے ہیں( لللہ ) کہنے کا مقصد اس وقت تک مکمل نہیں جب تک ان کو نافذ نہ کیا جائے ۔ جب ایک دفعہ حکم نافذ ہو جاتا ہے تو ہر معاملے میں اسی کی طرف رجوع کرنا پڑتا ہے۔  
 
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Comments by: moazzam On 03 May 2011
Dear Participants ! AKHIRAH.  
 
طس تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْقُرْآنِ وَكِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ  
 
هُدًى وَبُشْرَى لِلْمُؤْمِنِي  
لَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُم بِالْآخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ  
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْآخِرَةِ زَيَّنَّا لَهُمْ أَعْمَالَهُمْ فَهُمْ يَعْمَهُونَ  
أُوْلَئِكَ الَّذِينَ لَهُمْ سُوءُ الْعَذَابِ وَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ هُمُ الْأَخْسَرُونَ  
Dear Participants! The close analysis of the above mentioned verses leads to the decisive end, so as the matter will definitely be very much cleared.  
Note the following points.  
1) As no body at aastana denies the life after death (the continuation of life), but, our stance is that, there is no detail has been provided in Quran for the life under question, except that, if some body who made his-self (inner) pure(QAD AFLAHA MAN ZAKKA HA) definitely be successful in here after too.  
Remember, Quran contains eternal message to guide the mankind EXCLUSIVELY in life before death (تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْقُرْآنِ وَكِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ  
هُدًى وَبُشْرَى لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ  
2) In verse no 2 there are three following terminologies has been used being the condition to be in momineen.  
a) يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ  
b) وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ  
c) بِالْآخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ  
3) The importance of third one could be seen by the very next verse إِنَّ الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْآخِرَةِ زَيَّنَّا لَهُمْ أَعْمَالَهُمْ فَهُمْ يَعْمَهُونَ أُوْلَئِكَ الَّذِينَ لَهُمْ سُوءُ الْعَذَابِ وَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ هُمُ الْأَخْسَرُونَ  
While keeping in mind the importance of this Quranic term “AKHIRAH” analyze it from all expects of quranic message.  
d) If some one not believe life after death due to his lake of comprehension (due to insufficient details), he can performs all other obligatory duties (provided in Quran) his best, like يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ and وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ  
e) But,if some one could not comprehend the system of MAKAFAT-E-AMAL (the end results of his deeds)called بِالْآخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ.HE DEFINITLY FAIL TO DRIVE HIS SOCIAL LIFE IN SAFE MODE.So he ultimately will face the bitter consequences in this life and therefore in life after death as well.  
4) PLEASE CONSIDER THE MEANINGS AND TRUE SENSE OF "YUMINOONA BILLAH WAL YOUM AL AKHIR.  
5) Read the verse 2/177 in comparison with verse 4/136 to grasp the sense of EIMAN.  
If wont to see the people who don;t believe in YAUM AL AKHIRA read the verse 39/45.  
5) Remember the eiman billah ( momin with the commandment of Allah), performing good deeds, finally to be comprehended with the end results of each DEEDS (MAKAFAT-E-AMAL)is the essence of verses 3/114,2/62,4/39,5/69.  
6)  

Comments by: pervez On 03 May 2011Report Abuse
 
DEAR BROTHER MOAZZAM,  
 
1. YOU HAVE THE GREATEST RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS REGARD. PLEASE READ CONCERNS  
OF MANY OF OF US. PLEASE READ RELEVANT POSTS ONCE AGAIN ESPECIALLY WRITTEN  
BY BROTHER AURANGZEB. THAN TAKE A CLEAR POSITION. YOUR ABOVE POST IS STILL  
AMBIGUOUS.  
 
2. PLEASE CLARIFY IN CLEAR WORDS WHETHER QURAN WANTS US TO BELIEVE IN LIFE  
AFTER DEATH OR NOT. FORGET ABOUT IT'S DETAILS , THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE BROTHER.  
 
3. WE ALL RESPECT YOU. HOWEVER, YOU SURELY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DIFFER. I PERSONALLY  
BELIEVE FIRMLY THAT ALLAH WANTS US TO BELIEVE IN LIFE AFTER DEATH. THAT IS THE GOOD  
NEWS FOR HUMAN BEINGS.  
 
4. I APPRECIATE BROTHER AURANGZEB FOR TAKING A CLEAR AND UN AMBIGUOUS POSITION.  
MY HEARTIEST CONGRATULATIONS. ALLAH BLESS YOU BROTHER. I WILL SOON VISIT YOU.  
 
 
 
 

Comments by: aurangzaib On 03 May 2011Report Abuse
Dear Bob,  
 
Incredible memory (RAM)! Most effective/efficient Collection!.......... Gosh! ....Look at the spontaneous response displaying a most wonderful presence of mind! How can I appreciate your qualities fully?  
 
KHAAB HAY IK DIWAANE KA.........(Kishore) - highly enjoyable indeed!  
 
And the killing Masterpiece by Maestro! It swept me away with its spell-binding pace----- into the sweetest, fantastic realm of childhood memories-------- and into the environment recreated by those old Masters and that most skillful picturization:-  
 
YEH ZINDAGI KE MAILAY --- DUNIYA MEN KUM NA HOONGAY ----AFSOAS HUM NA HONGAY  
 
Bob, I straightaway absolve you from complicity in seven murders. You can have my pledge fulfilled by holding me from my collar, whenever you commit "that", and find me in the seat of a judge or a ruler.  
 
But look my dear, at the expression of DESPAIR, on the very suggestion of the possibility of EXTINCTION: "afsoas hum na hongay".  
 
This is the despair and hopelessness that the ever-loving God will never want His Creature, the Man, to face. So He gives hope and high expectations of the Hereafter in his Book.  
 
Your perceptions about the theory of life and death as beautifully displayed in your last two mails are again not to be ignored. It is our philosophical way of expressing ourselves. However, to drive the points of discussion home, I recommend we stick to what we were trying to conclude. I mean the quint-essentials of Quran's mention of both worlds.  
 
You brought up the question of حیاۃ الدنیا from Dr. Sahib's translation . We discussed its grammatical and lexical aspects and then I offered an alternate interpretation of it like this :  
 
"About حیاۃ الدنیا being مرکب توصیفی, I think Bob, taking Duniya as "this World", this term BECOMES also مرکب اضافی , i.e., LIFE OF THIS WORLD, grammatically, of course. And the Lexicons do testify to this commonly known meanings of Duniya. "  
 
Don't miss this point Bob, as it may prove decisive and we may be able to wrap up this lengthy thread.  
 
Look what I have brought up for you again :  
 
AL-QASAS: Verse 77:  
 
وَابْتَغِ فِيمَا آتَاكَ اللَّـهُ الدَّارَ الْآخِرَةَ ۖ وَلَا تَنسَ نَصِيبَكَ مِنَ الدُّنْيَا ۖ وَأَحْسِن كَمَا أَحْسَنَ اللَّـهُ إِلَيْكَ ۖ وَلَا تَبْغِ الْفَسَادَ فِي الْأَرْضِ ۖ إِنَّ اللَّـهَ لَا يُحِبُّ الْمُفْسِدِينَ ﴿٧٧﴾  
 
Look at DUNIYA here, it is not in Murakkab form; it just has a preposition with it here. It says : DON'T MISS YOUR SHARE/FORTUNE FROM THE WORLD, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME SEEKING THAT WHICH ALLAH HAS GIVEN YOU FOR THE "HOME OF AAKHIRAT".  
 
I hope DUNIYA here will justify its meaning of WORLD, and not the Low Class of Life. The context here is quite revealing and conclusive.  
 
Allah is talking about both worlds. How could He miss that. That's the foundation of all virtuous deeds by men.  
 
God bless you.  

Comments by: moazzam On 03 May 2011
Dear Pervez ! "PLEASE CLARIFY IN CLEAR WORDS WHETHER QURAN WANTS US TO BELIEVE IN LIFE  
AFTER DEATH OR NOT. FORGET ABOUT IT'S DETAILS , THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE BROTHER.  
I PERSONALLY BELIEVE FIRMLY THAT ALLAH WANTS US TO BELIEVE IN LIFE AFTER DEATH. THAT IS THE GOOD NEWS FOR HUMAN BEINGS".(pervez)  
Congratulation, I TOO.  
But good news for momineen is س تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْقُرْآنِ وَكِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ هُدًى وَبُشْرَى لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ  
 
Pease don't mix the verses up with "YAUM AL AKHIRA" that came for THE END RESULTS OF DEEDS (MAKAFAT-E-AMAL) which could be determined by the context of the verse.  
My stance is/ will be very much cleared, if you plz go through the verses i quoted and re-read my all previous posts.  

Comments by: moazzam On 03 May 2011
Brother Aurangzaib, Pervez, Bob,Nargis, and all respected members ! To differentiate between HAYAT ADDUNYA and HAYAT AL AKHIRAH it is advised to read the "SURAH MOMIN(GHAFIR).Especial attention should be given at verses28-45, keeping the verse 39 as a focal point.  
I request dr Qamar on your behalf (with the permission of all respected members) that, his honor may help us to reach at appropriate destination in this regard.As Dr sahab already set an example in case of KHATEM ANNABIYEEN by translating the SURAH AL AHZAB, which made every thing Cristal clear.

Comments by: Junaid On 03 May 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Respected members, I would like to share my observation here;  
 
Our mind is one of the strongest fortress we posses. The strength exists in form of a defense mechanism which helps us to preserve our preconceived thoughts and observations. The same defense mechanism refrain us from accepting new concepts and ideologies. We normally live under a state of denial, not willing to accept innovation and rejecting anything which looks different.  
The same human mind becomes most vulnerable, the moment we manage to step out of our preconceived thoughts. A state of vulnerability where we normally tend to accept almost anything which negates our previously held beliefs.  
What I mean to say is that the above mentioned states are two extreme conditions and both are wrong. We need to keep our mind in a state of balance which can only be attained through patience. This balanced state of mind provides us the ability to ponder and reflect through research and analysis and not to accept or reject anything in a hurry.  
I would request my fellow members, not to conclude anything without due research and please do not accept or reject any concept in a hurry. We are still in a state of journey and no one has reached the ultimate destination, therefore please be patient.  
 
Remember: Slow and steady wins the race :)  
 
Note: The Shortest Distance Between Two Opposing Points of View Is a Punch Line. Just think about it!

Comments by: Nargis2 On 03 May 2011Report Abuse
LISTEN UP MORTALSSSSS  
 
LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING THAT WILL HURT YOU,  
 
THAT IS  
 
QURAN IN THEORETICAL FORM IS PART 1, QURAN PART 2 IN VISUAL PRACTICAL FORM IS THE NATURE, THE CREATION.  
 
TO BACK UP MY OBSERVATION IS , THE FIRST AYA RABB UL ALEMEEN WONT MEAN ANYTHING TO A POOR HUMAN WHOS LOCKED IN A DARK ROOM. HE WONT SEE OBSERVE EXPERIENCE THIS STATEMENT THROUGH ITS PRACTICAL FORM.  
 
BUT WE CAN, WHEN WE HAVE A COZY VISIT IN THE RAIN FOREST,MOUNTAINS, DESERTS ETC, WE CAN SEE DIFFERENT PLANTS ANIMALS GETTIN THEIR SHARE OF ICE CREAM AND CREAM CAKES. WHOS FEEDING THEM? WE CAN SEE,DECODE,CALCULATE AND COMPREHEND THE STATEMENT...  
 
ARREST ME KILL ME HATE ME, BUT I WONT CHANGE THIS UNTIL SOMEONE CONVINCE ME WITH A BETTER EXPLAINATION  
 
NOW THE LAST RIDDLE, WHY AM I WRITING IN CAPS?  
 
DUUH, BECAUSE CAPS LOCK IS ON HAHAHA  
 
for those whos not in my fb list, plz try to read between the lines what im trying to say.  
 
You can read a painting, or through it, the painter's mind. Reduces your perception to the painting, & it will only provide limited information, magnify your understanding to approach the painters intellect, and, you will enjoy more paintings...

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 04 May 2011Report Abuse
Dear All, Please find Dr QZ's comments over the topic of discussion..................hope it might help !!  
 
http://aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=705  
 
Dear all members ,  
The Divine authority introduces himself through his attributes and qualities.  
About himself He says ,  
لا تُدْرِكُهُ الأبْصَارُ وَهُوَ يُدْرِكُ الأبْصَارَ وَهُوَ اللَّطِيفُ الْخَبِيرُ  
 
103. no vision can grasp him, but his grasp is over All vision. He is the Most Subtle and Courteous, Well Acquainted with All things.  
 
So question about his being does not arise. Now lets face some questions ,  
 
“ Is world of hereafter like our world or different ?”  
“ Is it Physical or Metaphysical ?”  
“ What is the criteria of entering into that world ?”  
“ Is there any description of that world in Quran?”  
 
Answers to these Quran will decide about the Metaphysical world of hereafter.  
 
Yes the world hereafter is not physical and we neither understand God as a being nor his world hereafter. The criteria of entering into that world is dependent as Mr Pervez said:  
“We have choice to make that appointment while we are here in mortal bodies by following his commandments,”  
 
Now coming to question no 4 description of that metaphysical world in Quran ,  
 
Logically there can not be a description of a thing in any book which you can not understand. As It will be useless to tell the description of God so is the case with his metaphysical world It will be useless to tell the details of that world .  
So In my view ( and I can be 100% wrong ) there can not be any description of Life hereafter.  
 
Now coming to verse 28 of sura Al-baqra , there are few question again, If someone wants from you to accept his point of view what should be the basics of the rationales ? i.e. what should be the solid grounds so that you accept his viewpoint. I think the solid grounds are :  
Either Observation supported by Statistics  
Or  
Knowledge ,  
 
Now coming to verse 28 of sura Al-baqra  
كَيْفَ تَكْفُرُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَكُنْتُمْ أَمْوَاتًا فَأَحْيَاكُمْ ثُمَّ يُمِيتُكُمْ ثُمَّ يُحْيِيكُمْ ثُمَّ إِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ  
 
28. How can You disbelieve In Allâh? Seeing that You were dead and He gave You life. Then He will give You death, Then again will bring You to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and Then unto Him You will return. (usual translation )  
 
This verse clearly says  
!.., We were dead  
2.., He gave us life  
3.., He will make us dead again  
4.., then again he will make us alive  
5.., Then unto him we will return .  
 
Except for the second and third stage all other stages can neither be confirmed by any observation supported by statistical evidences or by knowledge from the past .  
 
Even second and third stage is controversial for some . If we are supposed to believe blindly then there is no point in going into all this cumbersome exercise. If we have to accept some faiths blindly then why not all of it .  
 
I agree with Adnan M Khan that :  
"There is no one we know of who has returned to us and told us about life after death ".  
 
I am sure more than anything that ,  
QURAN DOES’NT TALK OF THOSE THINGS WHICH CANT BE PROVED OR ARE BEYOND OUR COPREHENSION OR UNDERSTANDING

Comments by: dawood On 04 May 2011Report Abuse
Salam brs and sisters: May Allah reward you all for your efforts and input. A long time back I attended a lecture on "Schema," --- a cognitive framework for learning. A brief intro is found here: http://psychology.about.com/od/sindex/g/def_schema.htm. You can google it and learn more about it.  
 
The most interesting aspect of this are the problems associated with it. I am sharing these with a hope that we examine our Schemas.  
"..... While the use of schemas to learn in most situations occurs automatically or with little effort, sometimes an existing schema can actually hinder the learning of new information. Prejudice is one example of schema that prevents people from seeing the world as it really is and inhibits them from taking in new information. By holding certain beliefs about a particular group of people, this existing schema may cause people to interpret situations incorrectly. When an event happens that challenges these existing beliefs, people may come up with alternative explanations that uphold and support their existing schema instead of adapting or changing their beliefs."  
 

Comments by: Zubair On 04 May 2011
Dear Friends,  
 
I second Brother Aurangzaib. We must never attack or belittle any Bother or Sister. Of course, we are free to share our knowledge, views, and opinions on aastana forum. If you do not agree with the views or opinions of a Brother or Sister, please refute them with sound argument. The forum is to discuss and learn, not quarrel. Our goal is to explore the question or topic from every frame of reference and try to find the best possible answer.  
 
Brother Moazzam is right that many verses that apply to this world have been wrongly interpreted to mean the world to come. This has diverted our attention from this world and its problems. Our focus need to be on our current world first. Now the question is does Quran exclude any reference or hint to the Next World. That is where our opinions differ.  
 
I am in total agreement with Brothers Aurangzaib and Pervez, and Sister UmeAimon. Let me mention here that since I learned about Brother Dr. Qamar’s view that Quran talks about this world only, I have been trying hard to accommodate this view. However, I encountered serious problems when I tried to apply some verses to this world exclusively. Here I will mention a few.  
 
و ہ لوگ جو قوانین قدرت کو جو اس نے نازل کیے ہیں چھپاتے ہیں اور ان کے بدلے تھوڑی سی قیمت وصول کرتے ہیں وہ اپنے پیٹوں میں محض آگ بھرتے ہیں۔ ایسے لوگوں کی قدرت کے نظام میں مکافات عمل کے وقت نہ تو سنوائی ہوگی اور نہ ہی ان کوان کی غلطیوں سے بری قرار دےگا۔ بلکہ ان کے لئے تکلیف دہ سزا ہو گی ۔  
 
Those who hide the Laws of Nature and bargain them for a small price are filling their bellies with fire. On the Day of Retribution, the System of Nature will neither hear their pleas nor excuse their sins. They will receive sever punishment. (2:174)  
 
First, how can someone hide natural laws or sell them? If this verse applies only to life on the earth, what is the Day of Retribution? Who is in charge that day? Who punishes the wrong doers? Please keep in mind that many criminals are never caught or punished during their short lives on earth. Similarly, sometimes good people lose their lives while saving others. If the reward is only for the earthly life, how do these good Samaritans get their reward once there are dead?  
 
ان لوگوں کو خوش خبری سنائیں جو اہل امن ہوئے اور جنہوں نے صلاحیت بخش اعمال کئے کہ انہیں ایسی مملکتیں ملیں گی جن کی ماتحتی میں خوشحالیا ں رواں دواں ہونگی جب کبھی ماضی میں بھی ان مملکتوں سےانکو ان کے اعمال کے سبب انعام سے نوازہ گیا تو انہوں نے ہمیشہ یہ ہی کہا کہ یہ تو وہی نعمت ہے یااس جیسی ہے جو اس سے پہلے بھی ہم جیسوں کو دی گئی اور ان کے لئے ان مملکتوں میں پاکیزہ ذہن ساتھی ہونگے۔ وہ اس میں اس وقت تک رہیں گے جب تک امن و صلاحیت بخش اعمال کرتے رہیں گے۔  
(2:25)  
 
This interpretation gives the impression that some people lived through multiple generations and, hence, they were able to witnesses the prosperity of past empires. Is that possible? The verse ends with the promise that they will live in bliss as long as they are peaceful and productive. Were not Prophet Muhammad and his companions peaceful and productive? How come none of them lived? Prophet Muhammad and his first Khalif died due to natural causes. But 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Khalif were murdered. Please keep in mind the end of verse 2:38. Those who follow the Commandments are assured that they would have no fear or worry. If this applies only to this world, we expect that Khalif Omar, Osman, and Ali would have no fear or worries. How come they got murdered? Also, Those who follow God’s Commandments often face persecution and even death.  
 
یہ قانون شکن لوگ وہ ہیں جو خدا کے ساتھ کئے گئے پختہ عہد کو توڑتے ہیں اور ان احکامات کو کاٹتے ہیں جن کو جوڑنے کا حکم دیا گیا تھا اورمملکت میں فساد پھیلاتے ہیں یہی لوگ خسارہ پانے والے ہیں۔  
(2:27)  
 
We learn from this verse that those who break laws, do not keep their promises, disobey God’s commandments, and make mischief on earth are losers. We have a problem applying this verse to the life on earth only. Surely, some law breakers and other criminals suffer on earth but not all of them. Here is just one example. Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin murdered over 30 million people. We have no record he was a loser or received any punishment before his death.  
 
Assume that a true Islamic State is established during our life time. And the authorities of this state are in charge on the Day of Retribution or the Day of Judgement. How will they bring those criminals, who are dead, back to life and punish them?  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 29 May 2011 Edit DeleteReport Abuse
Assume that a true Islamic State is established during our life time. And the authorities of this state are in charge on the Day of Retribution or the Day of Judgement. How will they bring those criminals, who are dead, back to life and punish them? Zubair  
 
Brother, Did the Quran state that those who are dead will come back and get their punishment in 2:25 and 2:27 or 2:174 ?  
 

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Dear Dr Sahib and brother Aurangzaib kindly expalin what SUNNAT is according to the Quran? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 27/09/2010
 
Please explain concept of Praying in Islam? Please do not not mix it with Namaz. Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 29/09/2010
 
Please briefly describe economic values Quran desires to be followed in a welfare state? Question by: pervez On 30/09/2010
 
Please briefly describe political values Quran desires to be followed in an Islamic state? Question by: pervez On 30/09/2010
 
What should be the salient features of the defense of an Islamic state in the present scenario in the light of Quranic values ? Mubashir Syed to please include your views on keeping weapons of mass destruction. Question by: pervez On 01/10/2010
 
Historically speaking, a Muslim soldier fights courageously, world knows that, question is why? Question by: pervez On 01/10/2010
 
Please explain origin and meaning of word Allah in Arabic language? Question by: pervez On 09/10/2010
 
Please discuss evolution in the light of" Kun fayakoon" Question by: pervez On 10/10/2010
 
What is God's interest in our well being when he is omnipotent. Please answer this stupid question? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 11/10/2010
 
Where is Muslim world found today in view of new definition of , Muslim, momin etc and does there exist Muslim Umma in these modern times? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 11/10/2010
 
salam dr shab janab sey arz hey k hum english nai jantey,hum kesey quran samaj saktey hain hamarey jeasey kafi loog hain jo ser urdo jantey hain hamara bhe huk hey k deen sumjhain. aghar deen main ibadat nai hey to (maksad e hayyat)kiya hey Question by: iqbalasghar From PAKISTAN (SARA E ALAMGIR) On 14/10/2010
 
salam, janab dr sahab jawab aap sey manga thaa jawab koi or deeta hey kiya ye theek hey ye bhi ho sakta hey k jawab deney walla meri tara k student ho brae mehbani khood jawab dain shukria Question by: iqbalasghar From PAKISTAN (SARA E ALAMGIR) On 18/10/2010
 
PLEASE REVIEW SIGNIFICANCE OF" MAIHER" IN MUSLIM MARRIAGE LAW IN THE LIGHT OF QURAN? Question by: pervez On 21/10/2010
 
sr. mere sawal kajawab nahi mila jin aurat ka shohar marr jae woh 4 mahina 10 din ki eddat kion karti he? haqqoqunnissa parh leney k bad phi sawal mera yahi he ? Question by: babarsharif34@yahoo.com On 21/10/2010
 
Please explain "QAYAMAT" in detail? Will it come when the whole universe will be destroyed and ALLAH will disclose NAMA-I-AIMAL of every individual and his fate for paradise or hell will be decided? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 22/10/2010
 
Gay's, homosexuals claim they are born like that....What do our Astanamembers have to say about it ? Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 22/10/2010
 
Salaamun 'Alaikum, After careful research and study on some 'key' Quranic concepts, I realize that we are to ESTABLISH DEEN in our lives REGARDLESS of the Secularists and their man-made laws. What are your thoughts on this viewpoint? Question by: Damon From UNITED STATES (PITTSBURGH) On 23/10/2010
 
does the concept of hoor exist in christianity?plz help me know it.i need it very much Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 26/10/2010
 
Sir, AAP KI KITAB HAQIQAT MALAIKA PARHHI AIK SAWAL THA. ALLAH NE HAMAIN MALAIKA PAR IMAN LANE KO KAHA HE. AGAR AAP NE JO TAREEF KI MALIKA KI TO US PAR IMAN KA KIA TALOQ BANTA HE. Question by: babarsharif34@yahoo.com On 05/11/2010
 
Some Aastana peer watch the Video on the link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaCWVXNByTc) and comment on its religious aspect Shariq Question by: SS From CANADA (VANCOUVER) On 05/11/2010
 
Have you read Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 07/11/2010
 
We have discussions about life after death and how disruptive it was to imagine that there is no life after death. Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 08/11/2010
 
Is "wahy" part of "sunnat Allah"? If so, how does it works in relation to the laws of nature? Can it be proven? I have another question too (answer one,get one free)please explain 2:78, what it means& whts with the slaves, free, women, etc? Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 10/11/2010
 
MERRY EIDMAS AND HAPPY OLD YEARS,SORRY I MEAN CHRISTMAS MUBARIK . Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 16/11/2010
 
Dear Doctor Qamer ,Muslims believe Prophet Muhammad is "Khatim-un-nabeen" Kindly support this faith with reason? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 19/11/2010
 
Have a look at this : http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 21/11/2010
 
IS QURAN A SIMPLE BOOK TO UNDERSTSND? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 23/11/2010
 
Someone please explain the "dream" concept of Prophet Yusuf? What do the Quran say about dreams,are they true or just thoughts? Im waiting,help:- O Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 24/11/2010
 
Dear Dr Qamar Zaman Please translate verse 2:219 correctly. "And they ask what they should give.Say what is surplus".Does the arabic word "AFU" means surplus? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 27/11/2010
 
Salaam. Is the Quran saying anything about Aliens ,monsters from other planets etc :P?? Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 30/11/2010
 
There is an ongoing discussion on “Ourbeacon” regarding the phrase “Allah-hu-Akbar”. I believe the subject matter to be extremely profound, something which members of Aastana would appreciate reading. Question by: William From UNITED KINGDOM On 30/11/2010
 
Is there any word in the Quraan for BELIEFor BELIEVE? Is Islam an ideology(A comprehensive and coherent set of basic beliefs about political, economic, social and cultural affairs that is held in common by a sizable group of people within a society)? Question by: Hafiz Abdullah From PAKISTAN (RAWALPINDI) On 01/12/2010
 
What are the meanings of EIMAN n MOMIN in 49: 14-15? Question by: Hafiz Abdullah From PAKISTAN (RAWALPINDI) On 01/12/2010
 
Dear Dr Qamar Zaman do you believe that people can still get WAHI from Allah,and become Nabi?Do you not believe that Muhammad was the last who received direct knowledge from God?Why do you say Muhammad is appointing authority of other prophets? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 02/12/2010
 
I have created a branch of the Aastana blog called "Linguistic & grammatical Exposition of the Quran" on Facebook and hope all of you join. nahi to..argg Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 04/12/2010
 
Dear All: Please go through my comments. Question by: Adnan Muhammad Khan From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 04/12/2010
 
PLEASE EXPLAIN AYAT NO 7 OF SURA 33 ( AL AHZAB) Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 06/12/2010
 
Does Quran gives the concept of Nationhood or Countries as they exist today. If yes then what should be the mode and form of Government. Shariq Question by: SS From CANADA (VANCOUVER) On 07/12/2010
 
Dear Dr Qamarzaman: Plz enlighten us about the verse14/48 keeping in view the context of the subject from 42-52.Also the verses 11/107-108,with respect to the context 11/103-108.Thanks Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 15/12/2010
 
How many men and women claimed Prophet hood after Muhammad and did anyone of them made any significant achievement or influenced humanity positively? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 18/12/2010
 
Dear All, what is Ahmed Huluci's Ellah ( idoelogy ) of Islam ? Question by: Mubashir Syed From INDIA (HYDERABAD) On 20/12/2010
 
Plz explain 38:27, how can one become kafir if he think differently about the universe. Also explain 29:44,"signs in the heaven and earth for those who BELIEVE"? Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 24/12/2010
 
Dear Dr Qamar Zaman or brother Aurangzaib a person told me if God can communicate with Moses,Jesus and Muhammad.So why can he not communicate with anybody else today?Please answer my question.Thank you very much Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 25/12/2010
 
Why do people try to prove the Qur'an through science? We find science in other books than the Quran, why are not they labeled as "divine"? Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 26/12/2010
 
I wonder how and why the Human Beings have assumed the status of the best life spices on Earth (or Universe). The term "ASHRAF-UL-MAKHLUQAT" was also coined unilaterally without considering the significance of Mankind in the Universe. Shariq Question by: SS From CANADA (VANCOUVER) On 27/12/2010
 
Please watch , a good video on zakat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vtmZNziH6U&feature=player_embedded#! Question by: alam1162@gmail.com From INDIA (DELHI) On 29/12/2010
 
PLEASE DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN SCIENCE AND DIVINITY ? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 30/12/2010
 
AL-KITAB + LAWS OF NATURE, is divine guidance as Moazzem says, Why humanity was plunged in to religious wars??? SCIENTISTS NEVER FIGHT IF THEY ARE PROVED WRONG. Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 31/12/2010
 
Muslims invented 5 pillows of Islam. Why learning Arabic is not mandatory in Islam?? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 31/12/2010
 
Dear Dr. Qamar Zaman: can you explain: [6/105] وَكَذَلِكَ نُصَرِّفُ الْآيَاتِ وَلِيَقُولُواْ دَرَسْتَ وَلِنُبَيِّنَهُ لِقَوْمٍ يَعْلَمُونَ Question by: M.N.Khalid From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 01/01/2011
 
Sura Baqra Ayah 223 "Your Women are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth as ye will ......". If Allah had to restrict husbands to wifes only then why was "AZWAJ" not used instead of "NISA". Here NISA means any woman (not necessarily wife). Shariq Question by: SS From CANADA (VANCOUVER) On 01/01/2011
 
Aap ke nazar me Tauheen e Risalat koi jurm hai ya nahi? 2- Tauheen e Risalat ke mujrim ko kia saza milni chahye? 3- kia ghair muslimo ko is baat ki ijazat honee chahyee ke wo Rasool e Akram PBUH ki shan me gustakhi kar saken? Question by: UMAR HUSSAIN On 04/01/2011
 
dear dr qamar sahib please translate the verse 4:34.thanks Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 06/01/2011
 
Has Human's beautiful (Animal) instincts and natural desires been checked by Divinity ? Question by: M.N.Khalid From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 08/01/2011
 
Is Sex allowed with Slave Women in Islam? Dr Zakir Naik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UVmSQHquJc&feature=player_embedded#! Question by: mohd.areeb On 08/01/2011
 
Dear Dr Qamar sahib i am not noticing your presence on the blog.You know that without you this blog is nothing.I know you are very busy.But i request you to please give some time to the blog.Thank you very much Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 09/01/2011
 
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/jan2011-daily/10-01-2011/col8.htm Every one is invited to comment on above cited column written by Ansar Abasi, especially. Dr. Sb., Aurangzaib sb., Moazzam Sb., Dr. Shahid and Sister Nargis. Question by: Adnan Muhammad Khan From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 10/01/2011
 
A tribe in Africa who exercise "incest", and believe it to be a divine law. A consequences of such action are injurious to following generations, What are those consequences ? Question by: M.N.Khalid From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 10/01/2011
 
What is good about the "Little Mosque on the Prairie"? Question by: Zubair From UNITED STATES (WASHINGTON) On 11/01/2011
 
Surah Al-Ahzab Ayat No.57 and 61.. for Mr.Adnan and others. Question by: UMAR HUSSAIN On 11/01/2011
 
-Is the Quran changed?If yes,what is changed, how do we know it is changed, and what does it mean when it says no1 can change it?(i have a clue about the last one, but want to share it when i read your answers :-D) Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 25/01/2011
 
How to increase your knowledge? Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 25/01/2011
 
Brother Aurangzaib, I read Q&A of the your blog and found this ref of "Tabqaat-e-Ibn-e-Saad" to Dr. Samreen On23 Sept2010, http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?MID=4&SID=21. If the author of this book is `Abdullah ibn Sa`d Ibn Abi Sarh' Question by: Syeda On 29/01/2011
 
What is free will? What is basic instinct? How does free will separate man from animals? Question by: Junaid From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 31/01/2011
 
QURAN GIVES US PERMANENT VALUES BEYOND TIME AND SPACE, WHAT ARE THOSE? LET US ENUMERATE AND DISCUSS THEM ONE BY ONE? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 02/02/2011
 
Salaam Shalom shabba dabba do ,what is the "driving force" in Human beings, and what is the "nafs" thing? Are human beings superior to other creatures ? If yes, why?hhhhmmmm Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 17/02/2011
 
PERSONALITY IS CHANGELESSNESS IN CHANGE. WHAT IS THAT? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 25/02/2011
 
CAN PROPHETS MAKE MISTAKES? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 10/03/2011
 
Salaam to all (and me) ,What giant "fish" (whale/shark-zilla?) ate Prophet Yunus (37:142) Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 12/03/2011
 
Dear Aurangzaib and dr qamar sahib IS ALLAH THE ACTIVE FA'IL (DOER) IN THE UNIVERSE,OR HE HAS SET LAWS WHICH MANTAIN THE ORDER OF THE UNIVERSE?if allah is not the active fa'il will it not make him a far unapproachable God? n is allah a personal God? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 15/03/2011
 
Please review law of DEET. Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 16/03/2011
 
Dear brother aurangzaib plz let me know about the actual story of TOOFAN E NOH (noah flood).i think the so called n2I interpretation is fake.am i right? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 18/03/2011
 
dear brother auragzaib plz let me know about the actual story of toofan e nooh.i think there is sth wrong with the so called n2i interpretation.am i right Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 18/03/2011
 
salaam Dr. Sahib, Does curse effect any one at all according to Quran? Question by: shireen On 22/03/2011
 
What's the point of mental development & how is it beneficial 4 the humanity? Does the Quran explain why we have to expand our capabilities when we are all goin to die anyway? how will Youm qayama have any meaning to me, when I'm not here? Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 22/03/2011
 
Good News As convener of Janat e Pakistan, Dr. AsarulIslam has nominated Mr. Aurangzaib Yousafzai as the adhoc President and “Party Leader” in Rawalpindi/Islamabad What are the Quranic injunctions for a political party ? Question by: SS From CANADA (VANCOUVER) On 23/03/2011
 
Congratulations to brother AURANGZAIB!!! Dear Brother Aurangzaib i have come to know that you have been choosen as the president of JANAT E PAKISTAN party.I am very happy and want to congratulate you from the core of my hear!!! Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 24/03/2011
 
Brother Moazzam! Should we join/launch any political party to establish the true Islamic state?? As there are already so many parties working under the same manifesto. Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 24/03/2011
 
Can anyone announce manifesto of Jannet-i-Pakistan political party to see how it is different from manifesto of other political parties in Pakistan? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 24/03/2011
 
Will AI surpass Human Intelligence? Question by: Zubair From UNITED STATES (WASHINGTON) On 27/03/2011
 
Brother Aurangzaib ! With out you this blog seems like a picture with out color. eagerly waiting for your comments at mine 29th,march. HOWALLAZEE URSILA RASOOLAHO BIL HUDAA WA DEEN ALHAQQ LIYUZHIRAHO ALLADDIN-E-KULLIH, 6:33, 48:28, , 61:9 . Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 30/03/2011
 
Could woman be an IMAM/NABI/RASOOL in a man dominating societies.While keeping in view her physical system, structure, and her psychology,also MALKA SABA.If not then what about in the societies where she has equal rights? Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 30/03/2011
 
Moazzam saheb and Aastana Members! Your teachings reflects that there is no any predestined event being played at earth. What about the historical steps been described in Quran about prophet Musa and Yousaf see verses 12/4-5, 28/5-7?? Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 06/04/2011
 
The world has succeeded in creating global village by study of "lohimahfooz" and "Alkitab". Is it wise to struggle for a state having label of "Islamic state" which will create a sect in humanity and will not be acceptable even by Muslim Ummah? Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 13/04/2011
 
1- Agr KHATIM ka matlab validater hae to MUHAMMAD se pehle kaun ye fareeza sr anjam deta tha? (haln keh Quran doosre nabbiun ka to zikr hae validater ka nahen) 2- Aur MUHAMMAD k bad ab kaun validater hae? Question by: Dr. Iqbal On 18/04/2011
 
In 3/81 " aur jb ham ne nabbiun se MISAAQ lya , jinhen ham ne KITAB aur HIKMAT de k jb tumhare pas koi RASOOL ae , us ki jo tumhare pas hae to tum us pe IMAAN le ana aur us ki NUSRAT krna....." wo kaunse NABI the aur RASOOL hen aur IMAN ka matlab? Question by: Dr. Iqbal On 18/04/2011
 
In the present scenario of changing human civilization, Does the institution of family holds permanent value beyond time and space? What guidance we get from Quran. Question by: momin From PAKISTAN On 27/04/2011
 
Dear Dr Qamar Zaman, I wondered if the Quran are making any statements which are not certifiable, or describes mechanisms that our mind cannot understand? If yes, then how are such claims and depictions advantageous? Question by: bob From UNITED KINGDOM On 30/04/2011
 
Dear Members, I want to know about the true story of Toofan e Nooh. Is it different from orthodox story? Wassalam Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 01/05/2011
 
Dear members, please share your valuable thoughts about these questions Question by: bob From UNITED KINGDOM On 03/05/2011
 
IF AASTANA MEMBERS ARE NOT CLEAR AT THE VERY BASIC (IMPORTANT) ISSUE OF HAYAT ADDUNYA and AKHIRAH, HOW WOULD THEY GUIDE THE PEOPLE LIKE ME? PEOPLE LIKE MR MOAZZAM COULD ONLY MISGUIDE,AS I POINTED OUT IN THE BEGINNING.BE AWARE Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 03/05/2011
 
Dear All, does Quran try to convince people about existence of GOD which cant be proved??? Question by: Mubashir Syed From INDIA (HYDERABAD) On 04/05/2011
 
HAZRAT ALLAMA MOAZZAM SAHAB ! Enlighten us about the ALLAH O AKBAR. Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 05/05/2011
 
DearAurangzaib and Aastana members! Could atheist be included in the glad tiding offered to mankind in verse 2/62 . Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 06/05/2011
 
Can the Existence of God, as the Creator, be scientifically proved, irrespective of Quran's verdict that the nature of His existence can't be comprehended? Question by: aurangzaib From PAKISTAN On 12/05/2011
 
Allama moazzam Sahab ! IS POLYGAMY HARAM IN ISLAM AS A SPECIAL CASE ? For more detail read my comments Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 13/05/2011
 
What is alam-i-amer and alam-i-khalq, Question by: pervez On 16/05/2011
 
Dear brother Aurangzaib hope you are doing well.Plz let me now what the word RIBA means.Does it mean the interest of bank.Thank you Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 18/05/2011
 
How can an individual act and help in creating an Islamic society because all efforts for this objective ends up in the demand for a theocratic state. What course of action has been laid down in the Quran Bakhtiar Qayyum Question by: bqayyum From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 21/05/2011
 
Dear Members I wnat to know the divine laws which Quran wants to implement on society. Thanks Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 23/05/2011
 
Dr. Zaman and Aastana Team, While your interpretation of the Quran in "Human Rights" terms is quite refreshing what does the Quran say of one who engages majority of his life in vain deeds(movies, games, relaxing ect) while being peaceful(Muslim)? Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 23/05/2011
 
Dear brother Moazzam plz elaborate what is meant by AL YAHOOD and ALNASARA (as character).I request my respected brother Aurangzaib to take part in the discussion also.Jazakallah. Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 23/05/2011
 
Salam Not all Muslims or believers get a Jenna in this life as one could b peaceful all their life n develop cancer, bad kids, divorce, car accident injury, ect.. How do u explain when bad things happen to good peaceful people? Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 24/05/2011
 
51:56 وَمَا خَلَقْتُ ٱلْجِنَّ وَٱلْإِنسَ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُونِ Pls explain the above ayat. wassalam Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 24/05/2011
 
Salam, Dr. Zaman and Students of Quran, what is the point in praying for the sick or praying for anything for that matter if God wills not to intervene in our lives? Yes we must do our part but where's the hope if God will not intervene? Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 25/05/2011
 
If all aspects of life are controlled by the divine laws and Alkitab is also preserved in "Loh-e-Mehfooz", then everything has to pass the test of logic. What then is the logic with Haraam and Halaal according to Quran. Shariq Question by: SS From CANADA (VANCOUVER) On 25/05/2011
 
Dear Dear ones, is there anything called "soul" in the Quran? Explain like im two years old, here i need spoon feeding or feedingbottle. Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 26/05/2011
 
Dear Dr. Qamar, With all the information on this site and similarly others, how is one to digest it all? There has been a battle to rewire your system to think more rationally and when you think you are, you get another wake up call. Years, maybe? Question by: Shirley C From UNITED STATES (PITTSBURGH) On 26/05/2011
 
Dear brother Mubashir regards,i remember once some Mullah raised objection against the interpretation of MARYAM by Dr QZ that Name can not be translated.Then Dr QZ gave the answer.I request you to send me the link plz.God bless you Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 26/05/2011
 
Aslamoalikum Mozam bhai would you please elaborate the terminology Al-Kitab?? Thanks Question by: ali.haideer From PAKISTAN (LARKANA) On 29/05/2011
 
Please Members What is the true story behind Ashaab e Kahaf, mentioned in soora e Kahaf. In orthodox interpretition these people sleeped in a cave for thousand of years, or something like this. Thanks Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 30/05/2011
 
Salam Dear Brothers Where may I find "Adam o Iblees" English translation of Dr. Zamans book? Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 31/05/2011
 
Salam Dear Brothers (Sisters included) and Aastana Administrators, Does the Quran give us a clear reason of WHY we are on planet Earth in human body and what we are here for? Please see comment below. Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 01/06/2011
 
Dear Brothers and Dr. Zaman, I've been beating myself up over this understanding of shirk or believing in a wrong concept of God. Yes I've read your understanding on this issue but there is a verse in Quran which warns those that say God is trinity Question by: Anwar From UNITED STATES On 02/06/2011
 
Kia app log Hadeeth ko nahi manty? kia app koi hawala hadeeth sy nahi detay. Mojzat ka to Hadeeth main bhi Ziker hay kia app mojzat ko nahi manty? Question by: guest From PAKISTAN On 05/06/2011
 
Dear Moazzam. I want to salute you for your hard work. I started learning Quran only 6 months back and I only started looking at AASTANA couple of weeks back. Question by: waseemameer From AUSTRALIA (SYDNEY) On 05/06/2011
 
Dhulqarnain, Can we follow the injeel and Torah of today? Question by: Nargis-Badshah-Salamat From FIJI (FAUJI) On 06/06/2011
 
Tahir Ul Qadri Ne Murday Ko Kalima Padaya (urdu video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mfb6QriVh8 Question by: alam1162@gmail.com From INDIA (DELHI) On 14/06/2011
 
Dear Moazzam i have seen your recent post about Allah.I want to know Is Allah God or it means ISLAMIC STATE.Do you believe in a God who is FA'ALON LIMA YUREED.And what makes you not believe in a God who is an active fa'il? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 14/06/2011
 
dear moazzam DOES GOD EXISTS?And if he is not involved in the universe and i say HE IS DEAD.Will it be okay with you. Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 15/06/2011
 
Is the Sunnat of Allah Unchangeable? Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 15/06/2011
 
Dear brother Moazzam who authored the Quran according to you?Allah or Muhammad himself?Please do not go in details.Just tell me Allah or Muhammad that who is the author of the Quran.Best wishes!!! Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 18/06/2011
 
Dear Moazzam What is the meaning of " INNAHOO LAQUALOO RASOOLIN KAREEM " if the text of quran is from almighty Allah Question by: alam1162@gmail.com From INDIA (DELHI) On 19/06/2011
 
Dear Members,One group waiting for youm ul aakhira as life after death, other group said that youm ul aakhira will be happend in this world. Many people died waiting for this in this world. Are these two groups not in the same condition of waiting Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 20/06/2011
 
Dear All, Recently my uncle have a stoke and his right side is completely paralysed. He cant speak nor can comprehend.He is facing very hard days. What do you think, is he facing makafat e amal. Please comment Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 02/07/2011
 
HAS ALLAH, IN HIS QURAN, RULED ON THE EXPRESSION OF HUMAN SEXUAL BEHAVIOR OR IS MAN FREE TO DECIDE ON HIS OWN HOW TO EXPRESS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 08/07/2011
 
IS INCEST, AS A PARTICULAR SEXUAL BEHAVIOR, ALLAOWABLE OR NOT ALLOWABLE IN DEEN AL-ISLAM? IF ALLOWABLE, WHY? IF NOT ALLOWABLE, WHY NOT? PLEASE GIVE AYATS. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 09/07/2011
 
DR. QAMAR ZAMAN WROTE: "SO ACTUALLY THERE IS NOTHING TO BE CALLED PREMARITAL SEX". IS THIS ASSERTION, ACCORDING TO AL-QURAN, TRUE?!? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 16/07/2011
 
NARGIS WROTE: THE ZANI IS SOMEONE WHO DISTORTS THE QURANIQ WORD. IS THIS ASSERTION, ACCORDING TO AL-QURAN, TRUE? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 18/07/2011
 
who is allah Question by: hm.zeeshan On 19/07/2011
 
Does aya 57/3 justify/give meaning that Allah is beyond time and space? Question by: waseemameer From AUSTRALIA (SYDNEY) On 20/07/2011
 
Is it true that Moses prayed for Aaron and Aaron became prophet. Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 21/07/2011
 
ACCORDING TO AL-QURAN, IS THE UTTERING OF ALLAHU AKBAR, ACCEPTABLE IN THE DEEN OF ALLAH? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 21/07/2011
 
Mummy of Pharon in Egypt is the same pharon who clashes with Moses. ? Is it conforms from Quran? Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 23/07/2011
 
CAN ANYONE ANSWER THIS SIMPLE QUESTION---ACCORDING TO AL-QURAN, WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF--AKBAR? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 23/07/2011
 
Dear brother Moazzam if someone wants to understand the Quran and he is studying it for the first time.How should he study it?How he should attempt to understand a particular episode of the Quran.Thank you very much... Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 29/07/2011
 
Sahibaan, Lanati ka salaam Kia Quran paak main Roh amr Rabbi ke ilawa Rooh amr Allah bhi likha hai? In dono main kia farq hai? Question by: Universal-Lanati From ARMENIA On 30/07/2011
 
Dear Dr.Qamar and members. Please explain 21/53-60. and also 6/76-80 Were those idols made of stones? Didn't they used to worship كَوْكَبًا,الْقَمَرَ,الشَّمْسَ Question by: waseemameer From AUSTRALIA (SYDNEY) On 01/08/2011
 
Dear Sir, It is being preached and commonly understood that Quranic guidance is eternal and everlasting for mankind during all eras. Whether any verse of Quran support this version ? if so , please quote reference of said verse . Thanks. Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 02/08/2011
 
Dear Sir, As per verse No.20 of Sura Al-Furqan(25) All , " Mursaleen;s" ate food and walk about in streets........... Why "Mursaleens;s" came to Seyedina Ibrahim ( who had to go towards "Qoum-e-Loot" , 51/32) denied to eat food from Ibrahim ? Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 02/08/2011
 
Dear Member, According to my new understanding I have left namaz,roza,Hajj. etc.Now what should I do according to Quran. How can I become a good Momin wothout these rituals. Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 02/08/2011
 
WAS THE PROPHET WHO WAS GIVEN THE QURAN...THE LAST PROPHET? YES OR NO AND PROVE EITHER POSITION. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 05/08/2011
 
IS AL-QURAN THE LAST/FINAL REVELATION FROM ALLAH? YES OR NO AND PROVE EITHER POSITION. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 05/08/2011
 
Salaamun Alikum Dear Aastana Members Please forgive me if I offends the spirit of aastana as I am going to ask few question which seems critical to me. Question by: mmkhan20 From SAUDI ARABIA (JEDDAH) On 08/08/2011
 
Dear Aurangzaib sb, Please explain the meanings of verse 37 of sura 41 Thanks Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 19/08/2011
 
IS AASTANA BLOG DEVOTED TO PHILOSOPHICAL MATERIALISM AND RELIGIOUS HUMANISM AND NOT AL-ISLAM? I'M BEGINNING TO BELIEVE SO. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 19/08/2011
 
Dear Sir, Please explain the meanings of verse 37 of sura 41 Thanks Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 20/08/2011
 
TRUE OR FALSE? 4:82 Will they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have FOUND IN IT MANY A DISCREPANCY. 10:37 And this the Quran...THERE IS NO DOUBT IN IT, from the Lord of the worlds. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 20/08/2011
 
Dear Moazzam,Dr QZ as you say Quran should be understood according to grammar.I have a question:All the Arabic grammars were written by IRANIS.Is there no possibility they have corrupted it like Ahadith?Thanks Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 22/08/2011
 
43:45 And ask those of Our messengers whom We sent before thee: Did We ever appoint gods to be worshipped besides the Beneficent? HOW COULD MUHAMMAD HAVE ASKED THE PRIOR MESSENGERS...ANYTHING? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 23/08/2011
 
Dear Zul-Qarnain. (with Two noons). You have repeatedly asserted on this blog that Surah Al-fatehaa is not part of the Al-Kitaab (Al-Quraan). Hereby I am humbly requesting you to produce your proof. (Read more in comments) Question by: Iqbal kay shaheen From NAMIBIA (WALVIS BAY) On 23/08/2011
 
TO ALL WHO IS THE "YOU" MENTIONED IN THE FOLLOWING AYAT? 2:4 And who believe in that which has been revealed to YOU and that which was revealed before YOU and they are sure of the hereafter. Question by: PRIEST BOKMEI From UNITED STATES On 24/08/2011
 
Dear Moazzam and Dr Qamar sahib Is the Phrase ALFE SHAHR MURAKAB E TOUSIFI or MURAKKABE ADADI?And what does it mean?Thanks Question by: bilal_khan5181 From PAKISTAN On 28/08/2011
 
Dear Dhulqurnain,Why Allah called Himself Al-Momin and Al-salaam in 59/23 Question by: waseemameer From AUSTRALIA (SYDNEY) On 30/08/2011
 
Dear Dr. Q.Z sb. A questio as comments below. Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 30/08/2011
 
WHY ARE RACIAL SLURS TOWARD AFRICAN AMERICANS ACCEPTABLE AT AASTANA BLOG? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 31/08/2011
 
CHALLENGE! CHALLENGE! CHALENGE! CAN ANYONE NAME ONE PROPHET, ALONG WITH, AND SINCE THE DEATH OF THE PROPHET REFERRED TO AS MUHAMMAD? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 06/09/2011
 
NARGIS/AASTANA BLOG, PLEASE ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS CONCERNING AYATS 3:21 AND 33:40 Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 08/09/2011
 
NARGIS, MOAZZAM, WASEEMAMEER, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. GIVE US YOUR EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. NO MORE CONVOLUTED DISCOURSES. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 13/09/2011
 
WASEEMAMEER, WHAT IS THE TRUE MEANING OF 51:56? WHAT IS THE HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DHULQARNAIN AND AASTANA THAT NO WAY CAN THEY GATHER ON ONE PLATFORM? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 15/09/2011
 
Dear Dr.Qamar and members. Please explain the meaning of Moosa and Esa. At what paradigms ابواب they are at, and what meanings they give on those ابواب? Dear Dr.Sahab, your input will be highly appreciated. Question by: waseemameer From AUSTRALIA (SYDNEY) On 16/09/2011
 
Is the Quran preaching BELIEVES ? I.E does it state anything in order to achieve unconfirmed belief in its students? 2) does it back up its claims with proofs, 3) HOW? Question by: Nargis2 From TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO (TOMBACCO) On 16/09/2011
 
NARGIS and MOAZZAM THERE HAS BEEN ALOT OF TALK ABOUT THE "GRAMMAR" RELATIVE TO AL-QURAN. MY QUESTION IS THIS, ISTHE GRAMMAR 100% ACCURATE? YES: EXPLAIN NO: EXPLAIN Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 17/09/2011
 
QAMAR, MOAZZAM, NARGIS, NAEEM, DOES QAMAR AND AASTANA BLOG BELIEVE THE FOLLOWING ASSERTIONS TO THE TRUTH? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 27/09/2011
 
Mr. Aurangzaib: Who is responsible for detracking me and many others who left Ramazan Fasting, Namaz especially after reading your booklet"tahqeeq namaz o salat"at Aastana? are you not an instable personality as per your shufling record?? Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 27/09/2011
 
NARGIS, MOAZZAM, WAQAR, NAEEM, ET ALL IS WAHY OR EXTRINSIC OR INTRINSIC? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 29/09/2011
 
MOAZZAM, NARGIS, NAEEM, MUBASHIR, WAQAR, YOU PEOPLE CANNOT POSSIBLY BE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS....OR ARE YOU? PLEASE EXPLAIN! Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 30/09/2011
 
PEACE TO ALL, ACCORDING TO AL-QURAN, WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF...A GOD" (I'M NOT REFERRING TO ALLAH, BUT THE TERM GOD IN GENERAL )? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 02/10/2011
 
WHICH TAKES PRIORITY--TASREEF OVER GRAMMAR OR GRAMMAR OVER TASREEF? PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR POSITION. Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 03/10/2011
 
What is the position of Athiest in Quran? Will Athiesm be practiced/ let exist in the Quranic Society? What difference it will make if oneself is Athiest? Question by: waseemameer From AUSTRALIA (SYDNEY) On 05/10/2011
 
PEACE TO ALL, MOAZZAM ASKS: CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PROPHET AND MESSENGER PROPHET, NABI AND NABI RASOOL? Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 07/10/2011
 
what the harm if someone perform rituals. Will Allah ask him why you did rituals. If one perform rituals and other dont then whats the difference they make on society. Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 09/10/2011
 
PEACE TO ALL, DOES AASTANA BLOG REPRESENT: DEEN AL-ISLAM OR... DEISM. DHULQARNAIN- Question by: ARCHILOCUS From UNITED STATES On 15/10/2011
 
Dear Sir, Please explain meanings of 27/42 to 44 Thanx Question by: M Aslam From PAKISTAN (GOJRA) On 30/11/2011
 
Dear sir, Please put some light on the death of Hazrat Hussain according to the history. and Dr sahib, we all are waiting for complete quranic translation Question by: matifsaeed From PAKISTAN (LAHORE) On 30/11/2011
 
PEACE NARGIS AND MOAZZAM. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ADDRESS THIS MAJOR CONTRADICTION: TELL US CLEARLY, IS YOUR POSITION STATEMENT "A" OR STATEMENT "B"? DHULQARNAIN- Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 01/12/2011
 
PEACE TO ALL, TO MY QUESTION: DO THE MALAIKA DO WRONG/EVIL? NAEEM SHEIKH ANSWERED: YES, SEE 2:34 IS HE CORRECT? DHULQARNAIN: Question by: DHULQARNAIN From UNITED STATES On 15/12/2011
 
WHY QURANISTS ARE DIVIDED LIKE RELIGIOUS MULLAHS IF THEY CLAIM THE RIGHTEOUS ONES ??? Question by: Mujeeb From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 01/02/2012
 
What do you guys think - Why some children around the world are born with defects like, blindness, handicapped, infected with acute diseases (HIV) etc., Why do they suffer their life for no fault of their own? Why does God do this them? Question by: sameermoopa From INDIA On 05/04/2012
 
Dear Members: Pls share ur thought on:'What is the 'purpose' of our existence?' Quran says 'And I didn't create the jinn and mankind except to do my IBADATH'(51:56). If this is the purpose, what does IBADATH mean here? Why God wants our Ibadath? Question by: sameermoopa From INDIA On 09/04/2012
 
can some one enlighten us about the real concept of SALAWATULLAH ALA NABI.Thanks. Question by: naeem sheikh From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 20/04/2012
 
Assaam,iam Nasir(India)iam understanding salah by your explanation tell me about vazu in surah maaida Question by: ameet From INDIA (ANANTAPUR) On 26/04/2012
 
thank you a better answer that Salath is not namaz so what is reality of namaz how this exist Question by: ameet From INDIA (ANANTAPUR) On 28/04/2012
 
assalam,was Allah speak with insan directly ? Question by: ameet From INDIA (ANANTAPUR) On 04/05/2012
 
agar zina najayij talluq nahi tho najayij talluq ke baare me quran me kya hai? Question by: ameet From INDIA (ANANTAPUR) On 15/05/2012
 
dea members. If someone do misdeeds(do wrong things) than he repent and ask toba, will he still have to suffer his misdeeds in this life. Question by: Saeed From PAKISTAN (KARACHI(MSAEEDTAJ@GMAIL.COM)) On 10/06/2012
 
respected qamar sir, what about here after life(Akhirath) in sight of quran? Question by: ameet From INDIA (ANANTAPUR) On 17/06/2012
 
Respected Dr Zaman. I am reading your translation of the Quran with great interest and I thank you for your efforts. I would like to understand the concept of Akhirat in light of the Quran. Salaam. Question by: Riaz From UNITED KINGDOM (LONDON) On 11/08/2012
 
If soam is not traditional "Roza" then why the later part of ayat relating to soam says that the women should complete the count after finishing with their menses? Question by: ansasausam From UNITED STATES (FLUSHING) On 27/10/2012
 
What is Shetan, can shetan affects the desire of Momin? Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 11/12/2012
 
What "the Aastana research forum says about the Atheists ??? Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 13/12/2012
 
What is the true sense of Duaa' mentioned at many places in Quran and been used as an effective tool in almost all religions? Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 13/12/2012
 
salaam Dr sahib.pls explain the meaning of نسخ ? and 2:104? Question by: saidalavi ansari From INDIA (KERALA) On 17/12/2012
 
Salam Dr sahib pls Explain verse 2/106 مَا ننسخ من آية Question by: saidalavi ansari From INDIA (KERALA) On 19/12/2012
 
ABOUT EISA "death/up lifting to heaven" Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 01/04/2013
 
Some body asked about the meaning of سِقَايَةَ الْحَاجِّ وَعِمَارَةَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ . Here it is answer to the question asked. Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 23/04/2013
 
Some body asked that, how does it affect "the understanding of qura'an" as well practical life of people if Eisa borne with OR with out father???????? Question by: moazzam From PAKISTAN (ISLAMABAD) On 25/04/2013
 
Dr sahib salam pls pls pls explain 2:233 والوالدات يرضعن أولادهن.......................... Question by: saidalavi ansari From INDIA (KERALA) On 01/05/2013
 
who is muthllakth المطلَّقات Question by: saidalavi ansari From INDIA (KERALA) On 01/05/2013
 
Hijab Jilbaab/ by Moazzam Islam Question by: Nargis From BARBADOS (KIO BATAO?) On 18/06/2013
 
Respected Dr, Qamar Zaman sb some one says mostly the trad trans is what is written in Quran but what U r bringing is new verbal meanings of Words,why should we choose those words as Quran is Mubin and it explains itself.e.g what U describe of halal. Question by: shaista From PAKISTAN (LAHORE) On 08/12/2013
 
Kindly send Dr. Qamar Zaman's US phone number to me at AsarSyed@gmail.com Question by: Asarulislam From UNITED STATES (LOS ANGELES) On 12/06/2014
 
I wrote many times in the form on the site, but no one answers. So, I have a translation of the book "THE TRUTH ABOUT SALAT. Dr. Qamar Zaman" to Russian. Do you want to put it on the site? Question by: onlyquran01 From RUSSIAN FEDERATION (RUSSIA) On 04/07/2014
 
Respected Aastana team, please could you kindly point me to the surah and ayat number of the two ayats referenced on page 9 & 10 of Sarchashma Hidayat sirf Al Quran? Thanks in advance for your assistance. Question by: Riaz From UNITED KINGDOM (LONDON) On 27/12/2014
 
Aoa, dear aastana members can you kindly translate surah ikhlaas exposing its main theme Question by: Abdul Hadi Saqib From PAKISTAN (LAHORE) On 14/03/2015
 
مسلمانوں کی نمازوں کے زرتشتی ماخظ Dowanload Question by: Adnan From PAKISTAN On 17/04/2015
 
i have asked two questions please Dr Q z sab post my 2nd question in this blog too. if it is not possible to post it here. then please reply to me via email. as i am really confused about the soum. why ghulam ahmed perwez sab couldn't explain? Question by: kanju swat From UNITED KINGDOM (LONDON) On 11/11/2015
 
aap jo quran ki wazahat karte hein 'kia aap khuda(god) per yaqeen(belief) rakhte hein? oor han(yes)! to aap ka aqeda(belief) kia hai? Question by: sufyanarif From PAKISTAN On 21/12/2015
 
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