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 Question by: PERVEZ On 12 August 2010
Comments by: aurangzaib On 12 August 2010Report Abuse
Dear Pervaiz Bhai,  
CONCERN and NEED are not synonymous; so your conclusion, upon which your question is based, is not right.  
Concern means caring, being worried about ones's welfare, being kind and benevolent to someone.  
Need has quite another perspective. It means to be in want of something, having some requirement etc.  
So, the question coming out of an erroneous conclusion, is already a wrong or ill-formed question.  
However, Pervez Bhai, ALLAH US SAMAD.... and ....ALLAHU GHANIYYUN 'ANIL AALAMEEN, explain that God does not NEED anyone.  
And AL RAHMAN, AL RAHEEM, RABBIL AALAMEEN and many other attributes, explain about His CONCERN.  
God bless you.

Comments by: pervez On 13 August 2010Report Abuse
Aurangzeb bhai I tend to disagree with you. With pure logic, you are only concerned when you are in need. how can creater be creater without his creation? I think he needs his creation.

Comments by: pervez On 13 August 2010Report Abuse
Dear Aurangzeb bhai, caring,being worried about someone is psychological need not a need in material sence.with out his creation he can not be creator.

Comments by: aurangzaib On 13 August 2010Report Abuse
Dear Pervez Bhai,  
I think you are taking the relation of God and Man in the perspective of relation between parents and children.  
Only then the psychological need to care for someone and be worried about him would arise. Isn't it right?  
You sure are so closely attached with God that your expectations from Him are very high and demanding.  
Your other question about LOVE confirms my judgement.  
Apart from that close 'emotional' attachment, there can be no other basis for such high expectations.  
But all the proofs of our daily lives negate or deny that close attachment or close concern.  
His subjects (the overwhelming majority of them) are in the grips of the worst kind of sufferings, slavery, shackles, hunger, grief and even slaughter. He is not at all "concerned". Nor He "needs" them because He does not come forward to save them from the tyranny of just a few nations.  
Nor He sends a Saviour individual or a savior nation to bring peace and security to those He is 'CONCERNED' about and whom HE 'NEEDS'.  
What is this "CONCERN" brother, and what kind of this "NEED" is? And what is that LOVE RELATIONSHIP that you are so fond of talking about with God?  
God bless you.

Comments by: pervez On 14 August 2010Report Abuse
My Dear brother Aurangzeb,  
Thanks for your answere. Your reply is quiet logical and factual, but it takes me to the other extreme of denial of God. Why believe in such a God who has "no close concern"? Brother I know you will not like the idea but please let me take out my heart felt feelings. I need a God who loves his creatures more than any human love relationship. Life is incomplete in this world without life here after. May be the whole picture is not in our experience so we see ugliness.Well do not take my words seriously I am well aware of your thinking, but " Dill hai k manta nanhe"

Comments by: moazzam On 14 August 2010
Dear brother Pervez, the answer given by Aurang zaib bhai dated 12/8/2010 is almost comprehensive in its nature,plz emphasis at the attrebutes of Allah"ASSAMAD,AL GHANI"

Comments by: aurangzaib On 14 August 2010Report Abuse
Dear Pervez Bhai,  
To go to the other extreme, to the denial of God, just because HE does not have a close and emotional relationship with you, the one that exists between parents and children, is a manifestation of "revenge psychology".  
Just because you want it that way; and because HE does not do it that way; so you turn an enemy to HIM and just start denying HIS very existence on this very minor pretext?  
Search your heart dear brother and see what kind of utterly selfish motives and emotions you are playing with! And you are playing this revenge game with whom? With God the Almighty?  
And be watchful! You alone are behaving in this queer manner. Almost all of HIS other subjects are quite satisfied with HIS role of RABB on a Universal pattern and the best GUIDE on global humanitarian level. One who has given the required values, measures, yardsticks, principles; and then has left this "intelligent creature" free and independent to manage on his own.  
I assure you brother, if HE were to interfere in our day-to-day lives as a caring Father, we as intelligent creatures would soon get annoyed by HIS presence and interference. We would not like to have become ROBOTS to act as he wanted us to act in our daily lives.  
So brother, HIS ways are based on profound wisdom. And those verily are the best ways. Man does have intellect but that is in Iqbal's words "AQL-E-KHUD BEEN"; while HIS is the 'AQL-E-JAHAN BEEN", and that's what can rightly be called "Wisdom". Unfortunately man is devoid of that.  
When you demanded a very close, emotional concern FROM HIM, you also were thinking of just your own mindset, your own personal desire - AQL-e-KHUD BEEN. You could not think of HIS Universal Role and the Conduct befitting that Role.  
Yeh hay AQL-e-Khud Been ki Haqiqat, because it is incapable of avoiding selfishness.  
God bless you with selfless thinking. (I am not serious)

Comments by: pervez On 15 August 2010Report Abuse
Dear Aurangzeb , refer to your reply dated 13 AUG , The observations you mentioned like sufferings, slavery and shackles etc are exactly the reasons atheists give to deny God, that forced me to write."Why believe in such a GOD who has no close concern". Uklay khood been is devoid of Quranic guidance but I am saying that whole Quran is evidence of Gods love which is much higher, greater and more closer than any love we see in human relationship. We fail to perceive because the whole picture of life is not in front of us. You are UN- necessarily provoked. Answer will become lengthy otherwise I could have explained further. There is no selfish thinking involved because he is yours and every ones GOD. He loves you and demands love from you. off course it is through obedience of his commandments practically speaking.

Comments by: aurangzaib On 15 August 2010 Edit DeleteReport Abuse
Dear Pervez Bhai,  
Who says I am provoked? Why would I be provoked in a philosophical discsussion? My straightforward analysis can hardly be called provocation. Had you tried to provoke me? God, no!  
I just tried to tell you logically about the implications of your desire to have God always supervising you as your foster father. My standpoint is that ultimately you will be annoyed by that Role of God. We all will be. We are annoyed with our own parents once we cross a certain childhood age and start standing on our own feet, and we want to act independently. We don't want care and concern constantly, it's sickening at times. It's human psychology for a human has been given a free and an independent mind and personality.  
So your demand for a constant, personal, emotional concern by God to yourself , in the name of your unique perception of LOVE, is not logical or practical. Nor is it proven by historical record. I mean, HE left his dear Messenger pbuh to suffer insult, injury, abuse, stoning and ousting from his home and town and subsequent armed attacks and invasions against his life and his state, etc.... and what not ? Please try to see that LOVE and that CONCERN in the right perspective.  
The atheists you refer to as your argument, are merely less than 4 % of the world population and hence cannot be quoted as a support or an authentic argument in favour of any personal concept or theory.  
However, brother, don't mind my very direct and open argumentation. You know, we all must do that to evolve ourselves. And do not think I am ever provoked. I am not provoked even if abused. Yes, my arguments may seem very direct and blunt, but they stand on solid grounds and I always take counter arguments seriously.  
God bless you.  

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