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TRANSLATION OF QURAN
BY DR. QAMAR ZAMAN
Translation Status
آیات
سورۃ
نمبر
1-7 الفَاتِحَة -1
1-286 البَقَرَة -2
1-200 آل عِمرَان -3
1-176 النِّسَاء -4
1-120 المَائدة -5
1-165 الاٴنعَام -6
1-206 الاٴعرَاف -7
1-75 الاٴنفَال -8
1-129 التّوبَة -9
1-109 یُونس -10
1-123 هُود -11
1-111 یُوسُف -12
1-43 الرّعد -13
1-52 إبراهیم -14
1-99 الحِجر -15
1-128 النّحل -16
1-111 بنیٓ اسرآئیل / الإسرَاء -17
1-110 الکهف -18
1-98 مَریَم -19
1-135 طٰه -20
1-112 الاٴنبیَاء -21
1-78 الحَجّ -22
1-118 المؤمنون -23
1-64 النُّور -24
1-77 الفُرقان -25
1-227 الشُّعَرَاء -26
1-93 النَّمل -27
1-88 القَصَص -28
1-69 العَنکبوت -29
1-60 الرُّوم -30
1-34 لقمَان -31
1-30 السَّجدَة -32
1-73 الاٴحزَاب -33
1-54 سَبَإ -34
1-45 فَاطِر -35
1-83 یسٓ -36
1-182 الصَّافات -37
1-88 صٓ -38
1-75 الزُّمَر -39
1-85 المؤمن / غَافر -40
1-54 حٰمٓ السجدة / فُصّلَت -41
1-54 القَمَر -54
Read Now


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TRANSLATION OF QURAN
SURA AL-BAQRA
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Dear DR Qamar, Please refer to your translation of 2:50. We know the Quran was revealed about 2000 years after Moses then why Quran is saying to the people about drowning of Firon that you were seeing it?
Add Your Comments  Question by: ANWER SURI On 30 November 2011
Comments by: moazzam On 01 December 2011
Dear Anwar Suri ! We know the information from the history that "the Quran was revealed about 2000 years after Moses", and we don't trust in.  
verse 2/50  
وَإِذْ فَرَقْنَا بِكُمُ الْبَحْرَ فَأَنجَيْنَاكُمْ وَأَغْرَقْنَا آلَ فِرْعَوْنَ وَأَنتُمْ تَنظُرُونَ  
Dear brother the stories written in Al-Kitab are generic templates (possess eternal guidance) containing message beyond time and space, applicable in each era.  
See the “firaon” and Musa in your society today.  
Remember .  
Firaon and Muses = Are attributes not specific personality, recognize them by their characters elaborated in Quran.  
Bani Israeel= this is also the attribute of a nation recognize it by its character and behavior explained at different places in Quran even in the verses 2/47-59.  

Comments by: Anwer Suri On 01 December 2011Report Abuse
Thank you Moazzam. Please provide more detail so I can get what is the concept behind it..

Comments by: Nargis On 01 December 2011Report Abuse

When Allah said his order never changes, it means everyone had the same order..same book  
 
Pharaoh didn't drown in the sea, he went down from his position,,i.e, his false concepts used to lead and oppress people, were ripped and stripped.  
 
so the Quran is asking people to comprehend the result of wrongdoings, which is a road not leading to any destination.  
 
Like I would say: Have you not seen the colonist, what faith they are suffering? They are all drowned..  
 
Or  
 
Have you not seen Ku Klux Klan, what faith are their ideology suffering, they are all drowned...  
 
Its a reference to the wrongdoer, his method and his intentions,,in order to make people understand the act, its intention and its destructive results, which leads to drowning (not in a sea, but in progression)  
 
Right hai brother Moazzam?


Comments by: moazzam On 01 December 2011
YES, IT'S RIGHT.

Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 01 December 2011Report Abuse
 
Very true Nargis.  
 
But do not have to hang us up in the word of "drowning". As I understand this, the word "Gharq" does not mean to drown necessarily but to stretch something to its breaking point. The breaking of something or contracting back from this point is not included in the basic meaning. It means to stretch something to a point from where it can’t get any further.  
 
This word is hence used for drowning because you stretch your lung capacity to the max, when you are struggling for air under water. When this effort reaces the maximum, you die as a result. But using this word for only the purpose of explaining drowning under water is wrong.  
 
Firaon stretched his effort in opposing the concept of Moses. He pushed his resistance to the point from were he could not resist any more. Hence got defeated.  

Comments by: Nargis On 01 December 2011Report Abuse

Thank you very much Shiraz,ur right  
 
Not only gharq is used for Pharaoh, and other prophets like Younis. These words are used as a metaphor to illustrate a clash between two ideologies, these words have the basic aim to show main conflict between two ideologies, one is righteous other is wrong...so the wrong ideology ka "bera gharq" ho jata hai. Brother Moazzam may post these words with references.


Comments by: Nargis On 01 December 2011Report Abuse

the Quran is a book of human rights, see even monkeys are showing some humanity, do they follow the Quran :D  
 
"Two blind persons wanted to drink water at the RagiGudda temple, Bangalore .  
When they were unable to operate the tap, this mother monkey opened the tap for them, allowed them to drink water, drank some water herself and then closed the tap before leaving the scene."

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/388189_252768424778642_100001364598127_625516_414507223_n.jpg

Comments by: Anwer Suri On 01 December 2011Report Abuse
Thanks it make sense.  
 
'the Quran is a book of human rights'  
 
From where you got that. Did Quran says it?

Comments by: Nargis On 02 December 2011Report Abuse

Dear Anwarsuri /Dawood .  
 
You have been around and you have asked the same question earlier. You can search for "human rights" in the search box and you will find old posts about our stand regarding human rights. YOU have participated in some of them.  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=40&QID=1304  
 
Who is Muslim in Quran & Who is Non-muslim in Quran  
 
A Muslim as defined in Quran is not a person who belongs to a any sect, to be Muslim is to be a peaceful person who cares for others and provide safety to fellow human beings.  
 
The word Muslim is derived from the root letters (س ل م) meaning thereby safety and security. The word Muslim is made on the paradigm (مفعل) from additinal paradigm of tenses called (مذید فی)  
The paradigm مفعل gives the meaning of the subject i.e. a person who acts upon others.  
Islam is not a religion. It’s a character and quality of a person. So any person who provides peace and protection to others deserves to be called Muslim.  
 
So a Non-Muslim in Quran is the one who does not live with peace and does not guarantee fellow human beings safety and security.  
 
To add to the answer let me tell you Quran does not give any rituals or faiths of a religion, It gives the Morals, Values and basics of a Respectable Society on the bases of human rights. The wrongly translated word (حق) Truth made the whole difference. The meaning of (حق) is Rights. The word for truth in Arabic is (صدق). Very strange to note that word (صدق) is again wrongly translated as charity.  
 
Quran is a book of Human Relations. It gives guidance to bring the humanity to freedom from the clutches of slavery and exploitation. For that matter Quran gives examples of Moses against Pharos, Jesus against Religious hegemony and other prophets.  
 
Moses according to Quran never taught any ritual of worship, So Muslim can be a Hindu Christian Jew or a Sikh. Let me quote a verse from Quran Sura 2 Ayyat 62  
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَى وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ  
Indeed those who are believers in Peace as well as those who are Jews and Christians and Serbians (anybody belonging to any religion), whosoever accepted Peace  
according to parameters of creator and did good deeds, will be rewarded by benevolent. He has nothing to fear and nothing to repent.  
 
 
You can see that reward is for anybody belonging to any religion. The only condition for reward is that he should lead a life of peace under the values and morals given by the creator and in the end it should results in peace. Quran is a book of Human Relations. It gives guidance to bring the humanity to freedom from the clutches of slavery and exploitation. For that matter Quran gives examples of Moses against Pharos, Jesus against Religious hegemony and other prophets.  
 
Moses according to Quran never taught any ritual of worship, So Muslim can be a Hindu Christian Jew or a Sikh. Let me quote a verse from Quran Sura 2 Ayyat 62  
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَى وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ  
Indeed those who are believers in Peace as well as those who are Jews and Christians and Serbians (anybody belonging to any religion), whosoever accepted Peace  
according to parameters of creator and did good deeds, will be rewarded by benevolent. He has nothing to fear and nothing to repent.  
 
 
You can see that reward is for anybody belonging to any religion. The only condition for reward is that he should lead a life of peace under the values and morals given by the creator and in the end it should results in peace. Quran is a book of Human Relations. It gives guidance to bring the humanity to freedom from the clutches of slavery and exploitation. For that matter Quran gives examples of Moses against Pharos, Jesus against Religious hegemony and other prophets.  
 
Moses according to Quran never taught any ritual of worship, So Muslim can be a Hindu Christian Jew or a Sikh. Let me quote a verse from Quran Sura 2 Ayyat 62  
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَى وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ  
Indeed those who are believers in Peace as well as those who are Jews and Christians and Serbians (anybody belonging to any religion), whosoever accepted Peace  
according to parameters of creator and did good deeds, will be rewarded by benevolent. He has nothing to fear and nothing to repent.  
 
 
You can see that reward is for anybody belonging to any religion. The only condition for reward is that he should lead a life of peace under the values and morals given by the creator and in the end it should results in peace.

 
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=71

Comments by: Nargis On 02 December 2011Report Abuse

First thing to know about a book is to know :  
1. The topic or the subject of the book.  
2. Contents of the book.  
 
The religious leaders of Islam never bothered to prove the authenticity of Quran so they never justified this book, hence it is to be taken as book of God without proving it to be so like any other book of God claimed by its followers. Recently some research workers have started proving scientific discoveries from Quran and so proving it to be a book of God as it contained knowledge of future millenniums. But do you think it was the purpose of the book during the times of prophet Mohammad and how did the people of his time took those interpretations? If the meaning and the interpretations are understandable by all people of all times to come. Then the book can be called eternal and authentic. The contents of the book should give the same meanings to all people of all the times of all places. It should be applicable and workable everywhere. i.e IT SHOULD BE INDEPENDENT OF TIME AND SPACE to justify to be called purposeful and authentic.  
 
Now let us see the purpose attributed to Quran by the religious leaders, WORSHIP  
Is it workable In all parts of the world, The answer is simple ...........NO, So if the purpose of this book is to ask humanity to worship, This book is not practical in so many parts of the world and hence a failure.  
 
So the most important thing to do is to know the purpose of a book. Purpose of Quran is to “BRING HUMANITY OUT FROM THE DEPTHS OF DARKNESS INTO THE LIGHT." Sura14 Ayyat 1.  
 
Lets see the Ayyat in detail, It says, It is a book which we have presented to you in order that you bring humanity out from the depths of darkness into the light, onto the way of Almighty. Ayyat no 5 clearly defines the darkness and the light. It says, “Indeed we sent Moses with our Message, lead peoples out of the depths of darkness into the light"  
 
Moses never taught his nation how to worship God, Instead he brought his nation from slavery of pharos to freedom and same is the purpose of Quran. The same purpose was achieved by Mohammad by freeing his nation from the exploitation by the rich and powerful class.  
 
If you study Quran from that angle you find events from the relevant history, explaining how the courageous people of the nation (Abna-e-Qaum, ابناء قوم ) clash with the pharos of their time.  
 
For that purpose Quran is perfect and authentic. It never fails. Please note that Quran does not give you the laws, because the laws change and may be practical and successful at one place, but may be a failure at other. It gives you the commands (احکامات) Values (اقدار). Commands and values never fail. Depending on Commands and values you make your laws.  
 
So the most important thing for a book to be divine is its practical approach. It should not fail at any time and at any place.http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=49


Comments by: Nargis On 02 December 2011Report Abuse

dear members ,  
A book speaks for itself . you cant say for a book of mathematics that it is polluted …..why…..? because if it is polluted then it's not a book of mathematics . it can be anything but book of Mathematics .So is the book of geography . the book will contain geography not the history or the science .If a book claims to be a book of specific subject then it will deal with the specific subject . .The matter of the Book will prove itself .  
Now if you have decided that Quran is Book dealing with the HUMAN RIGHTS then it will deal with the human relations and its problems . If it goes astray then certainly its not book of human rights .  
Secondly, whether its polluted or changed ,...... again the contents will prove whether the book is changed or not .  
thirdly ,whether its divine or not ......to answer this you will have to have a clear concept of DIVINITY .,In my opinion ( and I may be wrong )  
divinity is combination of two things  
1…., the eternal rules and laws witch do not change by the passage of time .( known as science ) .If someone tries to go against these rules it leads to disasters .  
and the values given to establish socioeconomic system of justice in a society . if someone goes against these values he leads his society into injustice ,and finally into a misery.  
Keeping in view the above fact in mind and as defined by Mr Moazzam already , I can very safely define  
" DIVINITY AS COMBINATION OF VALUES AND MORALS FOR THE BENEFIT OF HUMANITY SUPPORTED AND PROVED BY THE LAWS OF NATURE . "
Quran neither goes against the laws of nature ( universe ) nor against the laws of Human Rights .  
Hence I can very confidently say that this book is divine .  
we can find these rules and laws present everywhere in the known universe

http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1621

Comments by: moazzam On 02 December 2011
Well done, Sister Nargis! A book speaks for itself.  
Sure, Quran is a Book dealing with the “HUMAN RIGHTS”.Because it not only provides the most balanced values to address the human problems,but the ways to bring revaluations in this regard as well, in each era. .  
The values given are to legislate and execute the constitution to establish the socioeconomic system of justice in a society.  
Anwer Suri; The familiar one can easily differentiate between "horse and donkey" even not labeled/written.  

Comments by: Nargis On 02 December 2011Report Abuse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZoYC9YPkSw

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 02 December 2011Report Abuse
NARGIS and MOAZZAM,  
 
Please address the following issue.  
 
There is no avoiding it forever. You may as well do it now so we can resolve it and move on.  
 
Honesty and decency VALUES, not to mention for your own credibility, prohibit you from ignoring this very important issue much longer.  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=40&QID=1904  
 
Dhulqarnain-

Comments by: Nargis On 02 December 2011Report Abuse
The familiar one can easily differentiate between "horse and donkey" even not labeled/written MOAZZAM,

YESS , the difference is clear especially when their intentions are revealed through their donkey outfit>--> bible and Hadith- When the Quran didn't allow fairy tales and angels, they tried dirty tricks. When Jews hijacked Gods word and said their own version, home production is from GD given to Moses- when S Eesa revealed their lies ,Saul Paul suddenly converted to Christianity and wrote a new bible. When our kufaar believing in Angles and mythology couldn't change the Quran, they produced Hadith and linked it to Islam. The newest style is to reject Hadith, history or any book outside the Quran and agree on the fact that the Quran is enough alone, but they are in reality trying to impose the hadithistic biblical views and lies by presenting the orthodox translation based ON HADITH.  
 
The one who wants to understand the Quran purely on its own basis, method and language, should recognize and ignore each and every mullah donkey, wearing a horse costume. No medicine will help the one who suffers from illness MYTHOLOGY, and have the Quran as his enemy.


Comments by: Anwer Suri On 04 December 2011Report Abuse
AOA  
Dear Nargis,  
I am sorry but I dislike the way you taunt others. Why I have to hide my identity? I do not fear any of you. So I am only Anwer Suri. This is my real and only name and I don’t have to hide it.  
 
Yes I was around since long even before you joined. I am here to learn and share my thoughts. I believe all of you trying your best to understand the Words of Allah SWT. If someone deceiving his deceit is with him and Allah will judge him on the Day of Judgment.  
 
Could you let me know which verse of the Book which you called book of human rights gave you right to suspect me?  
 
Dear Maozzam,  
It seems that every disagreement will be viewed as following the traditional Islam. Like if not with you then with the traditional ritualistic Islam (same old concept of good & evil).  
 
Interpretation of term ‘Human Rights’ varies. I am not sure what your definition is. Online dictionary has “The basic rights and freedoms to which all humans are entitled, often held to include the right to life and liberty, freedom of thought and expression, and equality before the law“.  
 
There is no doubt that Quran deals & teaches us about human rights but does it mean that it is only a ‘Book of Human Rights’? NO. It also tells us the limits of those rights. It provides us guidance to seek sustenance by looking around the resources Allah has provided for us, purpose of our life etc.  
 
I agree ‘The familiar one can easily differentiate between "horse and donkey" even not labeled/written’  
 
Those who cannot for them Quran is telling them very clearly in several places that this book is guidance for mankind and criterion for right & wrong. For example ‘2:2, 2:185, 3:3-3:4’ etc. Quran laid out principles to guide mankind to live in this world and dire consequences if it will not follow whether as individual or as nation.  
 
And some can not even see the labels.  
 
Some Side notes:  
Quran uses the words Firon, Musa, Yahood, nasara, bani Israel etc all these words were not introduced by Quran. These were there in other religious books.  
 
Yahood and Nasara used to exist before the revelation of Quran. The stories in Quran about pharaoh Moses, Jacob, Joseph and so on are examples for our guidance they were not fake characters they used to exist.  
 
Using the name of Firon in the verse of Quran with the Arabic word which means drowning - when stories of drowning in the water existed in other religions - and even than not clarifying that this drowning was not a drowning in the water it is just metaphorical – what should someone conclude from it? Especially, when the researchers are proving that the Pharoh Ramses II had died due to drowning.  
 
Wassalam

Comments by: Nargis On 04 December 2011Report Abuse

I addressed both of you because same question have been raised earlier. Here is his question (Related to the what we say is core message of the Quran, I.E human rights): -  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=20&QID=1706  
 
Yes the core message of the Quran is to protect and provide human rights, this conclusion is made after studying the book which is dealing with the human relations and its problems. If its ayah leads humanity, individual or society to the darkness, if a person or society goes astray by this book, then certainly its not book of human rights . Can't find anything in the Quran that leads human being to darkness instead of light,progression, can't find any ayah in the Quran which is making one group superior over another one, cannot find any ayah which is giving more rights to a certain cast, nation or tribe and ignoring other one, cannot find any ayah where one group or cast is made the favourites of Allah, If you have then show it from the Quran -

Those who cannot for them Quran is telling them very clearly in several places that this book is guidance for mankind and criterion for right & wrong. For example ‘2:2, 2:185, 3:3-3:4’

The orthodox translation is rejected, any translation based on Hadiht, history, personal philosphy and views etc, is rejected. Here is Aastana's version  
 
2:2 وہ کتاب ہے کہ جس میں کوئی شک نہیں متقی بننے کے لئے ہدایت ہے۔  
 
2:185 خون خرابے کی کیفیت وہ ہے جس کے متعلق قرآن نازل کیا گیا جو لوگوں کا رہنما ہے اور جس میں احکامات کی وضاحتیں اور صحیح و غلط کو فرق کرنے کی تمیز ہے۔ پس جو کوئی بھی اس خون خرابے کی کیفیت کا مشاہدہ کرے تو چاہئے کہ وہ اس کیفیت کو روکے۔ البتہ جو کسی کمی (جسمانی یا علمی) میں مبتلا ہو یا سفر ( زمینی یا علمی ) پر ہو تو کسی دوسرے دورانیہ میں استعداد حاصل کرے۔ مملکت خدا داد تمہارے ذریعے آسانی چاہتی ہے اور تمہارے ذریعے سختی نہیں چاہتی اور یہ کہ تم استعداد کی تکمیل کرو اور یہ کہ تم مملکت خداداد کی کبریائی ان بنیادوں پر قائم کرو جن کی تم کو ہدایت دی گئی ہے اور یہ کہ تم اسکی نعمتوں کا صحیح استعمال کرو۔  
 
3:3 اس نے پیش کی آپ پر حقوق کی الکتاب ( خاص کتاب ) جو تصدیق کرتی ہے اس کی جو تمہاری دسترس میں تھی اور پیش کی التوراہ اور الانجیل ۔  
 
3:4اس سے پہلے انسانیت کے لئے ہدایت یعنی صحیح اور غلط میں فرق کرنے والی کتاب پیش کی یقینی طور پر جنہوں نے قوانین قدرت کا انکار کیا ان کے لئے شدید عذاب ہے اور قدرت بدلا دینے پر غالب ہے ۔  

Using the name of Firon in the verse of Quran with the Arabic word which means drowning - when stories of drowning in the water existed in other religions - and even than not clarifying that this drowning was not a drowning in the water it is just metaphorical – what should someone conclude from it? Especially, when the researchers are proving that the Pharoh Ramses II had died due to drowning.

What other religions say have nothing to do with the Quran, it is independent.  
 
But my own curiosity, there is no proof of Moses being in Egypt, if you have , please show me, I used to study world religions and find it interesting.  
 
Ramses !! died of drowning? Researchers proved it?  
 
From yahoo answers:  
 
I study Egytology as a long-time hobby. From all the information I have gathered Ramses II died of old age at the age of 90. His son Merenptah succeeded to the throne at the age of approximately 60 years old.  
Ramses II birth name was Usermaatrasetepenre.  
Source(s):  
 
From Wikipedia  
 
By the time of his death, aged about 90 years, Ramesses was suffering from severe dental problems and was plagued by arthritis and hardening of the arteries.[56] He had made Egypt rich from all the supplies and riches he had collected from other empires. He had outlived many of his wives and children and left great memorials all over Egypt, especially to his beloved first queen Nefertari. Nine more pharaohs took the name Ramesses in his honour, but none equalled his greatness. Nearly all of his subjects had been born during his reign and thought the world would end without him. Ramesses II did become the legendary figure he so desperately wanted to be, but this was not enough to protect Egypt. New enemies were attacking the empire, which also suffered internal problems and could not last indefinitely. Less than 150 years after Ramesses died the Egyptian empire fell and the New Kingdom came to an end.  
 
Drowned?

Quran laid out principles to guide mankind to live in this world and dire consequences if it will not follow whether as individual or as nation.

What serious consequences are listed and what acts are causing these consequences? can you name only ONE ayah providing principles to mankind, which is against human rights and their progression?

Yahood and Nasara used to exist before the revelation of Quran. The stories in Quran about pharaoh Moses, Jacob, Joseph and so on are examples for our guidance they were not fake characters they used to exist.

Neither is the word Allah, does it mean the word Allah is used as the pagans used it for the Moon God Hubal? so is the word Abu Lahab, does it mean it is S Mohammed's uncle? Every word used in the Quran existed before the Quran, the Quran did not invent a new language, did it? But the Quran itself define them- Who said they were fake characters and never existed?

۔NO. It also tells us the limits of those rights. It provides us guidance to seek sustenance by looking around the resources Allah has provided for us, purpose of our life etc.

What is the purpose of life according to the Quran and what is it meant by "limits of rights"? I don't understand how you think the guidance is hindered or the search for sustenance by looking around is hindered if you implement human rights, and how a right is limited? Does it mean that one cannot be fully free to develop?

I dislike the way you taunt

I should sell tickets for this, too many providentially favored in queue already


Comments by: moazzam On 04 December 2011
Dear Anwer Suri,Aastana Members!  
Anwer Suri: Quran uses the words Firon, Musa, Yahood, nasara, bani Israel etc all these words were not introduced by Quran. These were there in other religious books.  
Yahood and Nasara used to exist before the revelation of Quran. The stories in Qu  
ran about Pharaoh Moses, Jacob, Joseph and so on are examples for our guidance they were not fake characters they used to exist.  
Moazzam: The eternal message written in Al-Kitab is beyond time and space, from the day one, same as the laws/values hidden in the universe are since day one. All names including the names of prophets, places, are attribute/characters being the generic templates, to seek guidance in each era.  
The religious intrigues devastated/mutilated the divine message and created new religions by using the terminologies/attributes/names as per their liking,and this process is still going on.  
Do understand the difference between the stories (possessing eternal guidance) being the generic template and the existence of said real characters in the societies  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 04 December 2011Report Abuse
NARGIS, MOAZZAM, and MEMBERS,  
 
***NARGIS: Yes the core message of the Quran is to protect and provide human rights, this conclusion is made after studying the book which is dealing with the human relations and its problems.***  
 
No!, this is not the core message of Al-Quran. The core message of Al-Quran is 6:106:  
 
6:106 Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord — there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists/mushrikeen.  
 
Why? Because if one does not follow what is revealed from Allah, then one follows shaitan and is of the mushrikeen/those who give partners to Allah. Per ayat 4:48 Allah, does not forgive shirk if one dies in that state:  
 
4:48 Surely Allah forgives not that a partner should be set up with Him, and forgives all besides that to whom He pleases. And whoever sets up a partner with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin.  
 
Hence, Allah says/what He revealed:  
 
66:6 O you who believe! save yourselves and your families/immediate household from a fire …  
 
Serving Allah, not doing shirk, and avoiding the Fire is the core message of Al-Quran.  
 
Ponder the following carefully as well:  
 
6:22 And on the day when We shall gather them all together, then shall We say to those who associated others (with Allah): Where are your associates whom you asserted?  
 
When Allah calls the soul before Him…it comes alone! That’s right, no Moazzam with you, no Nargis with you, no Qamar with you , no mother with you, no Marx with you, no Deistic/Materialistic dogma with you, etc.… just you alone.  
 
The lament of the soul that day, who did not accept what the core message of Al-Quran was, will be the following:  
 
67:10 And they shall say: Had we but listened or pondered, we should not have been among the inmates of the burning fire.  
 
You’d better start getting your facts correct Nargis, because all your doing is leading yourself and others to the Fire.  
 
Dhulqarnain-  

Comments by: Nargis On 04 December 2011Report Abuse

the core message of the Quran is to provide and protect human rights. Only that way one follow and obey Allah instead of shaitaan.


Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 04 December 2011Report Abuse
The provide the ayats, not your opinion, which proves what you're saying.  
 
Oh, and while you're at it, don't forget to tell us if you are STATEMENT A OR STATEMENT B. You still need to take a definitive stand on this, otherwise, one will not know what is appropriate evidence to use when discussing issues with you.  
 
Dhulqarnain-

Comments by: Nargis On 04 December 2011Report Abuse

The core message of the Quran is human rights/ Universal values.


Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 04 December 2011Report Abuse
There is no point in arguing with you, because you never admit when you're wrong, you don't care if you contradict yourself, and, unfortunately, you're just not likely to ever get it anyway. But, for you,...it's all good.  
 
Dhulqarnain-

Comments by: dawood On 04 December 2011Report Abuse
Sa Nargis and Moazzam: I asked the following questions related to this topic in another thread. These are still unanswered?  
 
"Dawood: Thank you all for your replies. I was away for a while and could not get back to yu earlier.  
 
1. Please translate for me the word Zulmat and Noor used in Br. Moazzam's posts.  
 
2. What are specific HUman Rights mentioned in the Quran and in which verse(s)?  
 
3. When I read the verses related to Adam and IBlees, I find that Adam was promised HIdaya (Guidance) .. (2:38). This Hidaya is meant to keep the Adam(Humanity) away from tasting the Alshajar (the tree) (2:36). The opening verses of surah 2 indicate that this Alkitab is that Hidaya (guidance). First, can someone please link these verses with the other verses quoted by other brothers? Secondly, shouldn't all the quidance (hidaya) in other words AHKAMAATS (Orders/commandments) be considered as the purpose of the Quran?"  
 
Further, please ponder over 4:48, indicating the principal purpose:  
 
"Dhulqarnain: 4:48 Surely Allah forgives not that a partner should be set up with Him, and forgives all besides that to whom He pleases. And whoever sets up a partner with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin."  
 
Also, the word "Haq" and "Alhaq" are different, and must be treated differently. The definition of Alhaq is:  
 
“And He Who created (KHALAQA) the heavens and the earth with ALHAQ. And the day He says (Yaqoolu, from qaul, Qaf, Wav, Lam) BE (KUN) and it is (FAYAKOON), His qaul (QAULOHU) is the ALHAQ….” (6:73) .

Comments by: Nargis On 05 December 2011Report Abuse

and you run away from questions all the time, as your intention is revealed. Have a look at this thread http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1644  
 
DAWOOD: First, how did you come to conclude from my writings that I am "thinking...to keep female servants"? Can I have your analysis of my writings that clearly shows that I am indeed thinking along those lines?  
 
PERWEZ: Here it is:-  
Dawood: ..Similar word is also used in 24:32. All the translators have translated this word as "female servant" and Abd as "male servant." Both ABD and Ammata are used in 24:32. Your translation as a group or Jammat of this word confuses me, because it does not seem to fit in 24:32?. thanks.  
 
DAWOOD: Did you analyze any of his translations, so called Qadiyani, and showed where he is linguistically, grammatically, and contextually wrong? You are just taking a broad brush and want everything to be covered under the label Qadiyani and recent-convert-from-Christanity?  
how did you know that “ …converted recently from Christianity in an attempt to prove Moazzam and others wrong.”?? How much more prejudiced could anyone be on this account? It is indeed sad.  
 
PERWEZ: There is no need to say anything. you can see it from his salvation concepts like ask allah, i idnt say it and Allah will ask you etc. thats typical christians in church. And he admitted that himself in his reply to Modudi that that he got converted recently and before that he used to date his own sisters :D  
When a person quotes a Qadiayni interpreters (abdul mannan Qomer and Maulana Muhammad Ali) repeatedly and presents them as a final authority despite admitting that the person is deeply drowned into a worst kind of personality cult and calls himself a khalifa, then it is obvious that he cannot see things beyond Qadiyani point of view.  
 
You cannot see all this because you are purposely ignoring the facts. You need one supporter on this forum just like you always did. I think that poor guy Modudi is banned on this forum but I must say he is right about you and him. He rightly pointed out your real character umeaimon hidden in disguise of a male character Dawood.  
You have enjoyed support of various people including Aurangzaib and Zubair when you were writing as umeaimon on the same personal salvation kinda thing. Now you need someone to support you, no matter if he is a newly converted Qadiyani. You reply to me and Nargis clearly shows the hint of feminism in your writing and resemblance with umeaimon. That poor guy was right when he said that you will start attacking Maniza whenever she will come back and you exactly did that.  
 
DAWOOD: I would let this go so that I could concentrate on learning something new from the Quran. Such discussions are just a waste of time. So, I would not be taking part in them anymore.  
 
PERWEZ: I must say that you are here to waste your time and that of others. Learning and you are two opposite things. You better keep thinking about your personal salvation because you cannot get beyond that.


Comments by: Nargis On 05 December 2011Report Abuse

Female servants, male servants, 4 wives, slavery, mariage with 6 year olds, camel urinoholics, sex maniacs,opression of women,witnesses for rape, no difference between mother, sister, wife and disgusting mentality ... what is not introduces in your orthodox translations, ToraBible, hadith history ? And you want to convince people with them? everything is destroyed by the Quran when it introduced human rights and permanent values. I understand why try to fight against it , and I understand you loss. You better get used to it.  
 
The core message of the Quran is human rights/ Universal values, where such human illness is cured, where men who think they own weak people including women,are corrected,where disgusting pervert men who think they can have 4 wives or female servants, are reprimanded - Yeah damn right it is a book of human rights and universal values, a book equality and not slavery


Comments by: dawood On 05 December 2011Report Abuse
Dear Sister Nargis, SA:  
 
Did you answer any of the questions raised? None. Once more, can you please reply to the following using Quranic verses. Thank you in advance.  
 
1. Please translate for me the word Zulmat and Noor used in Br. Moazzam's posts.  
 
2. What are specific HUman Rights mentioned in the Quran and in which verse(s)?  
 
3. When I read the verses related to Adam and IBlees, I find that Adam was promised HIdaya (Guidance) .. (2:38). This Hidaya is meant to keep the Adam(Humanity) away from tasting the Alshajar (the tree) (2:36). The opening verses of surah 2 indicate that this Alkitab is that Hidaya (guidance). First, can someone please link these verses with the other verses quoted by other brothers? Secondly, shouldn't all the quidance (hidaya) in other words AHKAMAATS (Orders/commandments) be considered as the purpose of the Quran?"  
 
Further, please ponder over 4:48, indicating the principal purpose:  
 
"Dhulqarnain: 4:48 Surely Allah forgives not that a partner should be set up with Him, and forgives all besides that to whom He pleases. And whoever sets up a partner with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin."

Comments by: moazzam On 05 December 2011
Dear Dawood, Aastana Members: to comprehend the difference between “EIMAN” [ to be peaceful by acting upon AL-KITAB/HIDAYA /GUIDANCE/NOOR] and “SHIRK” [intermingling the “TAGOOT”the path to astray called ZULMAT] read the verses 4/44-52  
Pay especial attention at verse 4/48 إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاءُ وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ افْتَرَى إِثْمًا عَظِيمًا, the matter of human rights/protection been made cleared by addressing the prominent subject of humanity.  
As far as verses 2/36,38 are concerns, please read the whole context verses 2/35-38 to understand the “SHAJAR”, sheitan, hidaya, zalimeen.  
Let me produce the translation/elaboration of the said verses, here under.  
2/35وَقُلْنَا يَا آدَمُ اسْكُنْ أَنتَ وَزَوْجُكَ الْجَنَّةَ وَكُلَا مِنْهَا رَغَدًا حَيْثُ شِئْتُمَا وَلَا تَقْرَبَا هَٰذِهِ الشَّجَرَةَ فَتَكُونَا مِنَ الظَّالِمِينَ  
 
اور ہم نے کہا اے آدم تو اور تیرے ساتھی اس خوشحال ریاست میں سکونت اخیتار کرو اور تم اس سے با فراغت قانون مشیت کے مطابق جو چاہو حاصل کرو۔ لیکن اس شیطانی نافرمانی اور تکبر کے شجر کے قریب نہ جانا کہ تم ظالموں میں سے ہو جاؤ۔  
مباحث:۔  
اس آیت میں ھذہ الشجرہ کا مرکب اشاری آیا ہے۔اس مرکب میں ھذہ اشارہ اور الشجرہ " مشارالیہ "ہے۔ دیکھنا یہ ہے کہ ھذہ کا اشارہ کس طرف ہے۔اس سے پہلے کسی درخت کی بات نہیں ہوئی ، پھر یہ کون سا شجر ہے جس کے پاس جانے سے روکا جا رہا ہے۔ ہمارے مفسّرین نے بھی دوسروں کی دیکھا دیکھی گیہوں کے درخت کو اگا دیا۔  
شجر کے بنیادی حروف ش ج ر ہیں جس کے معنی پھٹ جانے کے ہوتے ہیں۔ ھذہ کا اشارہ اسی پھٹن کی طرف ہے جس کا اظہار پچھلی آیت میں شیطان کے حوالے سے انکار اور معصیت کی شکل میں ہو چکا ہے اور آدم کو بھی حکم ہو رہا ہے کہ وہ اس نافرمانی اور تکبّر کےدرخت کے قریب بھی نہ جائے۔  
 
2/36فَأَزَلَّهُمَا الشَّيْطَانُ عَنْهَا فَأَخْرَجَهُمَا مِمَّا كَانَا فِيهِ ۖ وَقُلْنَا اهْبِطُوا بَعْضُكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ عَدُوٌّ ۖ وَلَكُمْ فِي الْأَرْضِ مُسْتَقَرٌّ وَمَتَاعٌ إِلَىٰ حِينٍ  
 
پس شیطانی تصورات و خیالات نےبہکایا اور ان دونوں کو اس حیثیت سے نکلوا دیا جس میں وہ تھے۔اور ہم نے کہا "جا ؤا ب تم اس پستی کی زندگی میں بعض بعض کے دشمن بن کے رہو اور تمہارے لئے اس مملکت میں ایک مدت تک رہنا اور فائدہ اٹھانا ہوگا"۔  
 
مباحث:۔  
قرآن کے فہم میں متکلم کے صیغوں کی وجہ سے کافی دشواری کا سامنا رہا ہے ۔ لیکن اگر آیت کے سیاق و سباق میں جاکر دیکھیں تو معلوم ہو جاتا ہے کہ کون بات کر رہا ہے کس سے بات ہو رہی ہے ، ،اور کس کے متعلق بات ہو رہی ہے ۔  
دوسری اہم بات کہ" اللہ " کا لفظ جہاں جہاں آیا ہے وہاں وہاں ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔قدرت ۔۔قوانین قدرت ۔۔مملکت خداداد۔۔ یا اس کے ذیلی ادارے مراد ہیں ۔  
2/37 فَتَلَقَّىٰ آدَمُ مِن رَّبِّهِ كَلِمَاتٍ فَتَابَ عَلَيْهِ ۚ إِنَّهُ هُوَ التَّوَّابُ الرَّحِيمُ  
پس آدم نے اپنے پالنہار سے احکامات حاصل کیےاور وہ اس کی طرف رجوع ہوا یقینی طور پر وہ رجوع کرنے والا بارحمت ہے۔  
 
2/38 قُلْنَا اهْبِطُوا مِنْهَا جَمِيعًا ۖ فَإِمَّا يَأْتِيَنَّكُم مِّنِّي هُدًى فَمَن تَبِعَ هُدَايَ فَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ  
ہم نے کہا سب کے سب پستی میں رہو ۔ہاں جب بھی تمہارے پاس میری طرف سے کوئی ہدایت آئے تو جس کسی نے میری ہدایت کی پیروی کی تو نہ تو اس کو کوئی خوف ہوگا اور نہ ہی وہ کسی بات کا ملال کرے گا  

Comments by: Tabrez On 05 December 2011Report Abuse
For those who been to school will understand below example.  
 
No where it is written MATHS when someone is doing algebra, trignometry, ratios, probability, integration, differentiation, calculus etc...but yet person dealing with all these knows its a maths book.  
 
Tabrez Mabadaulat

Comments by: dawood On 05 December 2011Report Abuse
SA Moazzam and other participants:  
 
“Moazzam: Dear Dawood, Aastana Members: to comprehend the difference between “EIMAN” [ to be peaceful by acting upon AL-KITAB/HIDAYA /GUIDANCE/NOOR] and “SHIRK” [intermingling the “TAGOOT”the path to astray called ZULMAT] read the verses 4/44-52  
Pay especial attention at verse 4/48 إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاءُ وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ افْتَرَى إِثْمًا عَظِيمًا, the matter of human rights/protection been made cleared by addressing the prominent subject of humanity.”  
 
Lets see:  
 
(4:48): Allah forgiveth not that partners (Yashrik-Shirk) should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.  
 
(31:13): Behold, Luqman said to his son by way of instruction: "O my son! join not in serving (others) with Allah: for SHIRK is indeed the highest wrong-doing (Lazulm Azeem)."  
 
The above undoubtedly convey and define what is the BIGGEST ZULM; it is SHIRK. Thus, avoiding Shirk is avoiding the biggest ZULM. And those who do shirk are ZALMEEN (22:71, 11:101).  
 
(14:1): A. L. R. A Book which We have revealed unto thee, in order that thou mightest lead mankind out of the depths of darkness (Alzulumaat) into light (Alnoor) - by the leave of their Lord - to the Way of (Him) the Exalted in power, worthy of all praise!  
 
14:1 clearly defines the purpose of the book. If biggest Zulm is doing shirk with Allah, then Alzulumaat is the worse condition or situation that occurs as a result of shirk. Thus, taking mankind out of Alzulumaat towards NOOR is simply enabling them to avoid shirk, meaning not to mix and follow orders/commandments other than Allah’s. Thus, the command ( 6:106): Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord — there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists/mushrikeen. Azulumaat is also the situation or condition created as a result of rejecting or not following the Ayahs of Allah (6:39) as well as His messengers.  
 
Where are Human rights (as we know them) in the above?  
 
Now a word about “Moazzam: “EIMAN” [ to be peaceful by acting upon AL-KITAB/HIDAYA /GUIDANCE/NOOR].”  
 
(65:11): An Messenger, who rehearses to you the Signs of Allah (Ayat Allah) containing clear explanations, that he may lead forth those who believe (Aamino) and do righteous deeds (AML-e-Salih) from the depths of Darkness (Alzulumaat) into the Light (Alnoor). And those who believe in Allah and work righteousness, He will admit to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein forever: Allah has indeed granted for them a most excellent Provision.  
 
If Amino is to provide peace to others as Moazzam et al suggest, is it not Aml-e-Salih? Then what is the reason and need to mention this separately. By looking at the next part it is clear that these are two necessary conditions to come out of the zulumaat and move into the light; Namely, (i) one must have, Eman, Belief, CONVICTION in one’s heart about the certainty of Allah’s commands, and (ii) one must do actions that enable one to avoid shirk.  

Comments by: Anwer Suri On 05 December 2011Report Abuse
Dear Nargis you said - "I addressed both of you "  
 
Who "both of you"?  
 
Didn't you read 'So I am only Anwer Suri".  
 
Wassalam

Comments by: Nargis On 06 December 2011Report Abuse
'So I am only Anwer Suri".

and?

No where it is written MATHS when someone is doing algebra, trignometry, ratios, probability, integration, differentiation, calculus etc...but yet person dealing with all these knows its a maths book. Tabrez

but for those who follow the orthodox translation and say , the orthodox translation is saying blah blah blah angels blah blah blah 72 virgins blah blah blah 4 wives blah blah blah you best u believer blah blah blah kill non-believers blah blah blah female servants blah blah blah and so on  
 
But for us who have rejected the Hadith and Hadith based translations, the Quran is clear in its message  
 
I loved your example,,,but then again,,,I know what noor and zulmaat means :)


Comments by: Nargis On 06 December 2011Report Abuse
14:1 clearly defines the purpose of the book. If biggest Zulm is doing shirk with Allah, then Alzulumaat is the worse condition or situation that occurs as a result of shirk. Thus, taking mankind out of Alzulumaat towards NOOR is simply enabling them to avoid shirk, meaning not to mix and follow orders/commandments other than Allah’s. Thus, the command ( 6:106): Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord — there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists/mushrikeen. Azulumaat is also the situation or condition created as a result of rejecting or not following the Ayahs of Allah (6:39) as well as His messengers.  
 
Where are Human rights (as we know them) in the above?

What kind of balb is this ayah talking about, is it strong or weak ? It is not the light of a mom batti is it ? Maybe S Moses Qoum didn't have electricity so maybe S Moses took them to a cafe? no no Dawood you are right, it is a human right that you can have light instead of mom batti, so you don't have to travel in darkness. It actually means that the Allah wants all countries to cut down the electricity prices because Bani israel couldnt pay the bills-  
 
anyway Allama Dawood, What is shirk ?  
 
Explain how one perform shirk and how it can be avoided?  
 
And now that you have brought in Shirk ,,so sweet, then tell us what is zina?  
 
What is the connection between a mushrik and a zani?  
 
How did Moses group avoid shirk when he LIBERATED them from Pharaoh?

If Amino is to provide peace to others as Moazzam et al suggest, is it not Aml-e-Salih? Then what is the reason and need to mention this separately. By looking at the next part it is clear that these are two necessary conditions to come out of the zulumaat and move into the light; Namely, (i) one must have, Eman, Belief, CONVICTION in one’s heart about the certainty of Allah’s commands, and (ii) one must do actions that enable one to avoid shirk.

So why did Allah call himself Al Momin, who did he believe in? you?

( 6:106): Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord — there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists/mushrikeen.

What does it mean, Follow the book, and turn away from the MUSHREKEENS,,,shouldnt it be turn away from the shirk?


Comments by: Anwer Suri On 06 December 2011Report Abuse
Dear Moazzam,  
 
Moazzam wrote: “The eternal message written in Al-Kitab is beyond time and space, from the day one, same as the laws/values hidden in the universe are since day one. All names including the names of prophets, places, are attribute/characters being the generic templates, to seek guidance in each era.”  
 
Is this your hypothesis/conclusion?  
I assume that from alkitaab you meant Quran.  
 
I could not understand your logic it is very confusing. For example as per you, name/character of prophet Esa AS was a template. So he may have existed but his story is told in the book just to find the similar personalities in the current time. Right? What about 4:157? Do you see any example today?  
 
Also 3:84 all the prophets/messengers named in this verse were just template and what was revealed to them did not have a time frame? That was not specific to their time and language and mental level? So should we look for these type of prophets/messengers today. Do you have any name in your mind?  
 
Or are you talking about that eternal Message which is revealed to all the messengers including prophet Muhammad and explained in al-kitaab by the examples of the prophets/messengers and their nations and what happened to them when they didn't follow?  
 
Wassalam  

Comments by: Nargis On 06 December 2011Report Abuse
Do you see any example today?

Why would he go outside the Quran and get involved in personalities? Brother Moazzam keep it to the Quran and what it says ,dear anwar suri  
 
what do say to my questions?  
 
ohhii same discussions  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1284  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1281  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1347


Comments by: Nargis On 06 December 2011Report Abuse

Dear Anwar Suri :-D yeh hai mere sawalo ki churi

Those who cannot for them Quran is telling them very clearly in several places that this book is guidance for mankind and criterion for right & wrong. For example ‘2:2, 2:185, 3:3-3:4’

The orthodox translation is rejected, any translation based on Hadiht, history, personal philosphy and views etc, is rejected. Here is Aastana's version  
 
2:2 وہ کتاب ہے کہ جس میں کوئی شک نہیں متقی بننے کے لئے ہدایت ہے۔  
 
2:185 خون خرابے کی کیفیت وہ ہے جس کے متعلق قرآن نازل کیا گیا جو لوگوں کا رہنما ہے اور جس میں احکامات کی وضاحتیں اور صحیح و غلط کو فرق کرنے کی تمیز ہے۔ پس جو کوئی بھی اس خون خرابے کی کیفیت کا مشاہدہ کرے تو چاہئے کہ وہ اس کیفیت کو روکے۔ البتہ جو کسی کمی (جسمانی یا علمی) میں مبتلا ہو یا سفر ( زمینی یا علمی ) پر ہو تو کسی دوسرے دورانیہ میں استعداد حاصل کرے۔ مملکت خدا داد تمہارے ذریعے آسانی چاہتی ہے اور تمہارے ذریعے سختی نہیں چاہتی اور یہ کہ تم استعداد کی تکمیل کرو اور یہ کہ تم مملکت خداداد کی کبریائی ان بنیادوں پر قائم کرو جن کی تم کو ہدایت دی گئی ہے اور یہ کہ تم اسکی نعمتوں کا صحیح استعمال کرو۔  
 
3:3 اس نے پیش کی آپ پر حقوق کی الکتاب ( خاص کتاب ) جو تصدیق کرتی ہے اس کی جو تمہاری دسترس میں تھی اور پیش کی التوراہ اور الانجیل ۔  
 
3:4اس سے پہلے انسانیت کے لئے ہدایت یعنی صحیح اور غلط میں فرق کرنے والی کتاب پیش کی یقینی طور پر جنہوں نے قوانین قدرت کا انکار کیا ان کے لئے شدید عذاب ہے اور قدرت بدلا دینے پر غالب ہے ۔

Using the name of Firon in the verse of Quran with the Arabic word which means drowning - when stories of drowning in the water existed in other religions - and even than not clarifying that this drowning was not a drowning in the water it is just metaphorical – what should someone conclude from it? Especially, when the researchers are proving that the Pharoh Ramses II had died due to drowning.

What other religions say have nothing to do with the Quran, it is independent.  
 
But my own curiosity, there is no proof of Moses being in Egypt, if you have , please show me, I used to study world religions and find it interesting.  
 
Ramses !! died of drowning? Researchers proved it?  
 
From yahoo answers:  
 
I study Egytology as a long-time hobby. From all the information I have gathered Ramses II died of old age at the age of 90. His son Merenptah succeeded to the throne at the age of approximately 60 years old.  
Ramses II birth name was Usermaatrasetepenre.  
Source(s):  
 
From Wikipedia  
 
By the time of his death, aged about 90 years, Ramesses was suffering from severe dental problems and was plagued by arthritis and hardening of the arteries.[56] He had made Egypt rich from all the supplies and riches he had collected from other empires. He had outlived many of his wives and children and left great memorials all over Egypt, especially to his beloved first queen Nefertari. Nine more pharaohs took the name Ramesses in his honour, but none equalled his greatness. Nearly all of his subjects had been born during his reign and thought the world would end without him. Ramesses II did become the legendary figure he so desperately wanted to be, but this was not enough to protect Egypt. New enemies were attacking the empire, which also suffered internal problems and could not last indefinitely. Less than 150 years after Ramesses died the Egyptian empire fell and the New Kingdom came to an end.  
 
Drowned?

Quran laid out principles to guide mankind to live in this world and dire consequences if it will not follow whether as individual or as nation.

What serious consequences are listed and what acts are causing these consequences? can you name only ONE ayah providing principles to mankind, which is against human rights and their progression?

Yahood and Nasara used to exist before the revelation of Quran. The stories in Quran about pharaoh Moses, Jacob, Joseph and so on are examples for our guidance they were not fake characters they used to exist.

Neither is the word Allah, does it mean the word Allah is used as the pagans used it for the Moon God Hubal? so is the word Abu Lahab, does it mean it is S Mohammed's uncle? Every word used in the Quran existed before the Quran, the Quran did not invent a new language, did it? But the Quran itself define them- Who said they were fake characters and never existed?

NO. It also tells us the limits of those rights. It provides us guidance to seek sustenance by looking around the resources Allah has provided for us, purpose of our life etc.

What is the purpose of life according to the Quran and what is it meant by "limits of rights"? I don't understand how you think the guidance is hindered or the search for sustenance by looking around is hindered if you implement human rights, and how a right is limited? Does it mean that one cannot be fully free to develop?


Comments by: bob On 06 December 2011Report Abuse
14:1): A. L. R. A Book which We have revealed unto thee, in order that thou mightest lead mankind out of the depths of darkness (Alzulumaat) into light (Alnoor) - by the leave of their Lord - to the Way of (Him) the Exalted in power, worthy of all praise!  
 
14:1 clearly defines the purpose of the book. If biggest Zulm is doing shirk with Allah, then Alzulumaat is the worse condition or situation that occurs as a result of shirk. Thus, taking mankind out of Alzulumaat towards NOOR is simply enabling them to avoid shirk, meaning not to mix and follow orders/commandments other than Allah’s. Thus, the command ( 6:106): Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord — there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists/mushrikeen. Azulumaat is also the situation or condition created as a result of rejecting or not following the Ayahs of Allah (6:39) as well as His messengers. DAWOOD  
 
............................  
Dear Dawood  
 
What is your definition of shirk?  
 
In what way do you follow what is revealed, what does it actually mean to follow the book, what specific act does it ask us to perform?  
 
If there is nothing like Allah, how is it possible to make partners with him?  
 
I’m also curious in your characterization of human rights?  
 
14:5  
We sent Moses with Our signs (and the command). "Bring out thy people from the depths of darkness into light, and teach them to remember the Days of Allah." Verily in this there are Signs for such as are firmly patient and constant, - grateful and appreciative.  
 
The story of Prophet Moses leaves no uncertainty; Moses unshackled bani Israel from the servitudes of Pharaoh. If this act of Prophet Moses is defined as taking someone out from darkness to the light, then it is already defined. You mean to say that taking someone out from darkness to the light is to enabling them from doing shirk, then shouldn't Prophet Moses empower the Elite / Pharaoh from committing shirk and lead them out from the depths of darkness to the light, instead of the suppressed people? Will they not follow their leader? The one who commit shirk is in the darkest darkness, if he is not removed he will continue his ignorance and affect other people. Unless you believe enforced slavery is same as committing shirk?

Comments by: moazzam On 06 December 2011
Brother Anwer Suri!  
Anwer Suri: I could not understand your logic it is very confusing. For example as per you, name/character of prophet Esa AS was a template. So he may have existed but his story is told in the book just to find the similar personalities in the current time. Right? What about 4:157? Do you see any example today?  
 
Moazzam: to comprehend the matter under question, read the context of the subject described in verses 4/153-159, then focus on verse 4/159.This process is still going on and will be continued till last day.  
4/159 وَإِن مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ إِلاَّ لَيُؤْمِنَنَّ بِهِ قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِ وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا  
And there is no one of the People of the Book ,but he, who becomes peace provider with the (teachings of rasool) before his death (zameer ki maut); and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them  
EISA = the guard in the period of dark (daor-e-zulmat), polite and soft spoken.  
AHL-E-KITAB = who possess Al-kitab.  
MOMIN = peace provider.  
YAOM AL-QIYAMA = the accountability period, when Islamic state establishes into being.  
MAUT = the death of senses (zameer ki maut)  
SABT = laziness , السبت کوئی دن کی بات نہیں ہے بلکہ یہ اہل کتاب کی وہ روش ہے جو انہوں نے الطور یعنی وحی الہی کے ساتھ اختیار کی ہوئی تھی۔ سبت کے بنیادی معنی کاہلی،سستی ، لاپرواہی کے ہیں۔ ملاحظہ فرمائیے سورۃ ۱۶ کی آیت نمبر ۱۲۴  
إِنَّمَا جُعِلَ السَّبْتُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ ۚ وَإِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَيَحْكُمُ بَيْنَهُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ فِيمَا كَانُوا فِيهِ يَخْتَلِفُونَ  
TUR = custom  
QATAL AL-AMBIYA= to humiliate the prophets  
SALEEB= rigorously humiliation.  
 
 
Anwer Suri: Also 3:84 all the prophets/messengers named in this verse were just template?  
Moazzam:As far as verse 3/84 is concerns read it in consolidation with 3/85, yes all proper nouns mentioned in Al-Kitab are attributes (characters) of the societies in each era, (may be called by x,y,z)  
قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْ  
نَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ  
Say, "We are peace provider with the commandments of Allah and in what أُنزِلَ to us (the understanding of Al-Kitab conceived in our mind)and what was أُنزِلَ to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."  
2/85  
وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الْإِسْلاَمِ دِينًا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ  
And whoever desires other than الْإِسْلاَمِ دِينًا ( the peace worthy system/way of life) never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the آخِرَةِ (ultimately), will be among the losers.  
Anwer Suri ; And what was revealed to them did not have a time frame? That was not specific to their time and language and mental level?  
Moazzam: The same message (comprise of wording in Al-kitab) has been given in their languages to all rasool, but the guidance they taken(by pondering into it) according to their era(mental level of their society).This process is still going on.  
Anwer Suri: are you talking about that eternal Message which is revealed to all the messengers including prophet Muhammad and explained in al-kitaab by the examples of the prophets/messengers and their nations and what happened to them when they didn't follow?  
Moazzam: Yes.  
Anwer Suri : Do you see any example today?  
Moazzam: i'm explaining Quran only.So any one may recognize them in his society by their attributes written in Al-Kitab.

Comments by: bob On 06 December 2011Report Abuse
Thus, taking mankind out of Alzulumaat towards NOOR is simply enabling them to avoid shirk, meaning not to mix and follow orders/commandments other than Allah’s. DAWOOD  
 
Conflicting  
 
( 6:106): Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord — there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists/mushrikeens. DAWOOD  
 
ME:- Those who are affected by Alzulmaat are committing shirk, that’s why help is necessary.as long as they are under the system of the originators of Shirk, they are also pledging shirk, In other words, they are mushrikeens. But the traditional translation is clearly telling you to TURN AWAY FROM THE MUSHREKEENS, then how can you take them out from darkness to the light?  
 
DAWOOD:-  
If Amino is to provide peace to others as Moazzam et al suggest, is it not Aml-e-Salih? Then what is the reason and need to mention this separately. By looking at the next part it is clear that these are two necessary conditions to come out of the zulumaat and move into the light; Namely, (i) one must have, Eman, Belief, CONVICTION in one’s heart about the certainty of Allah’s commands, and (ii) one must do actions that enable one to avoid shirk. -----  
 
ME:-If eiman is belief ‘CONVICTION, the Kafereens ought to have belief in Jibreel. How else would they be his enemies? This leads to a belief in Allah as well, for the reason that they are antagonists of Jibreel as he is identified to people who follow the conventional translation. How they are acquainted with Jibreel is depicted by you on the forum. The only difference between you as a believer and them as Kafereens is that you never became Jibreel friend although you unseeingly and instinctively believe in him as a disguised angel, while the Kafereens achieved the opposite, explicitly to become his enemies.  
 
Do you think Momin have two different meanings?

Comments by: dawood On 07 December 2011Report Abuse
SA Nargis, Bob, and others:  
 
“Nargis: What kind of balb is this ayah talking about, is it strong or weak ? It is not the light of a mom batti is it ? Maybe S Moses Qoum didn't have electricity so maybe S Moses took them to a cafe? no no Dawood you are right, it is a human right that you can have light instead of mom batti, so you don't have to travel in darkness. It actually means that the Allah wants all countries to cut down the electricity prices because Bani israel couldnt pay the bills-“  
 
I have no idea what you mean in your above quoted reply. Thus, no comments.  
 
“Nargis: anyway Allama Dawood, What is shirk ?”  
“Bob: What is your definition of shirk?  
 
Nargis, lets not degrade word Allama.  
 
For shirk, see 18:26 (also see the same definition by Dr. Qz): Say: "Allah knows best ….; nor does He share (Yushrik) His Command with any person whatsoever.” Thus shirk is mixing Allah’s Ahkamaat with other manmade Ahkamaat.  
 
“Nargis: Explain how one perform shirk and how it can be avoided?”  
“Bob: In what way do you follow what is revealed, what does it actually mean to follow the book, what specific act does it ask us to perform?”  
 
Simply follow ( 6:106): Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord — there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists/mushrikeen.  
 
“Nargis: And now that you have brought in Shirk ,,so sweet, then tell us what is zina? What is the connection between a mushrik and a zani?”  
 
I think Dr. Qz has a book on this. I haven’t completely examined this yet, so no comments at this stage.  
 
“Nargis: What does it mean, Follow the book, and turn away from the MUSHREKEENS,,,shouldnt it be turn away from the shirk?”  
 
“Bob: ME:- Those who are affected by Alzulmaat are committing shirk, that’s why help is necessary.as long as they are under the system of the originators of Shirk, they are also pledging shirk, In other words, they are mushrikeens. But the traditional translation is clearly telling you to TURN AWAY FROM THE MUSHREKEENS, then how can you take them out from darkness to the light?”  
 
(20:124): "But whosoever turns away from (Aarada Han) My Message, verily for him is a life narrowed down, and We shall raise him up blind on the Day of Judgment."  
 
(32:22): And who does more wrong than one to whom are recited the Signs of his Lord, and who then turns away therefrom? Verily from those who transgress We shall exact (due) Retribution.  
 
Turning away is not physical rather it is shunning, ignoring, and not following or acting on something, according to 20:124, 32:22, etc. The same word Arada is used in 6:106, simply meaning don’t follow what mushrikeen are following. Bob, there is a phrase in English, “turning a blind eye…”, how do you interpret it?  
 
“Nargis: How did Moses group avoid shirk when he LIBERATED them from Pharaoh?”  
 
According to your and some others assertions, Mosa liberated his people physically from Firauon. Thus ending their salvery, aka Zulmat ( I am not suggesting that he has not liberated them physically, I have to examine it in detail). For the time being, have a look at 2:92 and 4:153:  
 
(2:92): There came to you Moses with clear (Signs); yet ye worshipped the calf (Even) after that, and ye did behave wrongfully (Zaalimoon).  
 
(4:153): The People of the Scripture ask you to bring down to them a book from the heaven. But they had asked of Moses [even] greater than that and said, "Show us Allah outright," so the thunderbolt struck them for their wrongdoing (Bizulmihim). Then they took the calf (Eijal) after clear evidences had come to them, and We pardoned that. And We gave Moses a clear authority.  
 
Why Moses’ people have become Zaalimoon again? Who is Firaoun here? Are they physically shackled or slaved? What kind of ZULM is described here? Is Mosa asking someone now "let them go with me?"  
 
I will get back to you ASAP on Eimaan, for I have a limited now available right now.  

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 07 December 2011Report Abuse
PEACE DAWOOD,  
 
“Nargis: Explain how one perform shirk and how it can be avoided?”  
“Bob: In what way do you follow what is revealed, what does it actually mean to follow the book, what specific act does it ask us to perform?”  
 
DAWOOD: Simply follow ( 6:106): Follow that which is revealed to thee from thy Lord — there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists/mushrikeen.  
 
DAWOOD: Turning away is not physical rather it is shunning, ignoring, and not following or acting on something, according to 20:124, 32:22, etc. The same word Arada is used in 6:106, simply meaning don’t follow what mushrikeen are following.  
 
Absolutely! What better answers can be given?! What rational/Allah fearing individual would reject these answers?! Emphasis on the “rational/Allah fearing”.  
 
Look at what the prophet stated:  
 
10:15 And when Our clear ayats/messages are recited to them, those who do not expect to meet with Us say: Bring a Quran other than this or change it. Say: It is not for me to change it of my own accord. I follow naught but what is revealed to me. Indeed I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the chastisement of a grievous day.  
 
The Prophet only followed what was revealed to him, and, he knew to disobey 6:106, would mean—The Fire/Hell.  
After grasping the truth of ayats 6:106 and 10:15 (among other ayats):  
 
Allah says:  
 
10:32 … And what is there after the truth but error? How then are you averted!  
 
Indeed, what is after truth except error (conjecture). Ayats 6:106 defines the Quran only and alone individual, and the one who is actually on the Sirat-Al-Mustaqeem.  
 
DAWOOD: Bob, there is a phrase in English, “turning a blind eye…”, how do you interpret it?  
 
"Dawood, what a ridiculous question!! You find someone with a blind eye, reach in to the eye socket, and turn it in any direction you wish. Got it! My God, man, don’t you know anything you Mullah-like ego-strutting zombie ?!" :D  
 
I can’t wait to read their responses to you.  
 
Dhulqarnain:  
 
 

Comments by: dawood On 07 December 2011Report Abuse
SA Bob and Nargis:  
 
“Bob: ME:-If eiman is belief ‘CONVICTION, the Kafereens ought to have belief in Jibreel. How else would they be his enemies? This leads to a belief in Allah as well, for the reason that they are antagonists of Jibreel as he is identified to people who follow the conventional translation. How they are acquainted with Jibreel is depicted by you on the forum. The only difference between you as a believer and them as Kafereens is that you never became Jibreel friend although you unseeingly and instinctively believe in him as a disguised angel, while the Kafereens achieved the opposite, explicitly to become his enemies.”  
 
First, words such os Amino, yumino, momin, etc. are used as antonym to Kafiro, yukifro, kafir, etc., (not in any order here). Thus we need to use all tasreef, ratal, tarteel, context, etc. to infer the right meanings. There are too many verses citing KUFR and Eman, and thus bringing the contrast between them very clear. I will quote just a few.  
 
(2:108): Would ye ask (sawal) of your Messenger as Moses was asked in the past? but whoever exchanges Aleiman with Alkufr, hath strayed without doubt from the even way.  
 
1. If Aleiman is Peaceful way/condition, then Alkufr is antonym of this condition/way, meaning resorting to non-peaceful way/condition, etc. Did Moses’ people indulge in such a non-peaceful way or agitation? Quran tells us that Moses’ people asked Moses to change what Moses brought, thereby rejecting the AHKAMAATS of Allah. Thus, Kufr is rejecting the ayahs/commands of Allah after knowing them. Since ALKUFR is antonym of ALEMAN, then Alemaan must be accepting the ayahs and commands of Allah wholeheartedly, and knowingly with clear mind and heart after due reflection.  
 
(2:171): The parable of those who reject (KAFARO) is as if one were to shout Like a goat-herd, to things that listen to nothing but calls and cries: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they are void of wisdom.  
 
2. According to 2:171, the Kuffar are those who are deaf, dumb, blind, and void of wisdom. Thus Momineen must be those who have qualities opposite of these, meaning Momineen are the ones who use the above faculties. All these faculties are linked through a common thread of reasoning, thinking, pondering, etc. Thus, Momineen must use all these faculties to convince themselves that Allah’s Ayahs are the truth and they must have firm faith in that truth, thus the term belief.  
 
(49:7): … Allah has endeared to you the faith(Alemaan) and has made it pleasing in your hearts (Fi Quloobekum) and has made hateful to you disbelief(ALKUFR), defiance and disobedience. Those are the [rightly] guided.  
 
3. The above clearly establishes that Alemaan is something in one’s heart that one accepts willingly, loves it, and it is pleasing to oneself. On the other hand, the same heart hates ALKUFR, rejection, defiance, and disobedience to Allah’s commands.  
 
(49:14): The bedouins say, "We have believed (AAmann)." Say, "You have not [yet] believed(Taumino); but say [instead], 'We have submitted,' for faith (ALEMAAN) has not yet entered your hearts. And if you obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."  
 
4. Is there a doubt anymore that Alemaan is something that enters into one’s heart? This is nothing but a strong belief, acceptance, and conviction of Allah and His commands to be true and fruitful.  
 
(4:51-52): Have you not seen those who were given a portion of the Scripture, who believe (Yuminoona) in Biljibt and Biltaghoot and say about the disbelievers(Kafaro), "These are better guided than the believers(Aamano) as to the way"? Those are the ones whom Allah has cursed; and he whom Allah curses - never will you find for him a helper.”  
 
5. First, one needs to note that the term “peace provider for Momin” as erroneously coined by some at this forum has a positive connotation. This term is not suitable at all to be used in 4:51, else one must admit that people are or could be peace provider using both ALJIBT and ALTAGHOOT. Both Aljibt and Altaghoot are diametrically opposite to what Allah’s commands/ayahs/message stand for. Thus, one can never be a peace provider via Aljibt and Altaghoot. Therefore, the right word for Eman is the strong belief, conviction, wholehearted devotion, etc.  
 
The above should be sufficient proof to indicate that the “peace provider” or similar phrases for the quranic words, Emaan, Aamino, etc. are not the right one, rather such translations/interpretations are misleading and suggestive of something else. And that the right translation for such words remain to be Faith, belief, conviction, wholehearted devotion, etc., in Allah and His message/commands.

Comments by: dawood On 07 December 2011Report Abuse
SA Dhulqarnain:  
 
"Dhulqarnain: Absolutely! What better answers can be given?! What rational/Allah fearing individual would reject these answers?! Emphasis on the “rational/Allah fearing”.  
 
Thank you.  
 
I find your underlined “rational/Allah fearing” word being equivalent to what a Momin should be, as I highlighted above.

Comments by: DHULQARNAIN On 08 December 2011Report Abuse
PEACE DAWOOD,  
 
"Dhulqarnain: Absolutely! What better answers can be given?! What rational/Allah fearing individual would reject these answers?! Emphasis on the “rational/Allah fearing”.  
 
***I find your underlined “rational/Allah fearing” word being equivalent to what a Momin should be, as I highlighted above.***  
 
You're spot on, Dawood; really good point. Darn, I wish I had thought of that! :D  
 
This is how it was supposed to read, but my edit didn't go through:  
 
DAWOOD: Bob, there is a phrase in English, “turning a blind eye…”, how do you interpret it?  
 
BOB: "LOL!, Dawood, what a ridiculous question!! You find someone with a blind eye, reach in to the eye socket, and turn it in any direction you wish. Got it! My God, man, don’t you know anything you Mullah-like ego-strutting zombie ?!" :D  
 
Dhulqarnain-

Comments by: Nargis On 08 December 2011Report Abuse
I find your underlined “rational/Allah fearing” word being equivalent to what a Momin should be, as I highlighted abov  
 

Awww chuch phruch

 
 
According to your and some others assertions, Mosa liberated his people physically from Firauon. Thus ending their salvery, aka Zulmat ( I am not suggesting that he has not liberated them physically, I have to examine it in detail). For the time being, have a look at 2:92 and 4:153:

Quote me, where have I said liberated physically from Pharaoh? also quote the "some others".


Comments by: Nargis On 08 December 2011Report Abuse
First, words such os Amino, yumino, momin, etc. are used as antonym to Kafiro, yukifro, kafir, etc., (not in any order here). Thus we need to use all tasreef, ratal, tarteel, context, etc. to infer the right meanings. There are too many verses citing KUFR and Eman, and thus bringing the contrast between them very clear. I will quote just a few.

so you mean to say Kuffar didn't believe in Jibreel but became his enemies?  
 
Do the Rattal process on the word Momin where it is used and include it when it is used on Allah. What is its meaning at these places? do you have a better explanation on what Malaika is, rather than pushing the worn out old beliefs of mullahs and the concept of Allama Parwez?


Comments by: Nargis On 08 December 2011 Edit DeleteReport Abuse
The same word Arada is used in 6:106, simply meaning don’t follow what mushrikeen are following.

and what is the mushrikeens doing, what are they following which is opposite to the Quran?

 

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