TOPIC: Quran >> Un-Quranic Beliefs
Q.Dear Dr QZ, is there any concept of spirituality (Mysticism) in Quran ? What does so called bieng spiritual mean from Quranic point of view?
By: Mubashir Syed On: 6/23/2011

1.Salam brother Mubashir,  
 
Thanks for asking this question. I am so much looking forward to the answer to this question too. Because My problem is now accepting the Quran itself as a Devine Book without geting sprituality involved. Hope someone answers soon.  
 
regards  
 
UmeAimon
Comments by: UmeAimon On: 7/1/2011

 
2.does spirituality/mysticism define "divinity",,,then what is defined by "dvinity" ?
Comments by: Nargis2 On: 7/1/2011

 
3.Mohtarma UmeAimon,  
 
App keh rahi hain ke (My problem is now accepting Quran itself as a Divine book without getting spiritually involved).  
 
Yeh dekhiye Divinity aur Spirituality ki definitions Wikipedia ke mutaabiq.  
 
Divinity:  
To refer to qualities of individuals who are considered to have some special access or relationship to the divine.  
 
Divinity and divine (sometimes "the Divinity" or "the Divine" ) are broadly applied but loosely defined terms, used variously within different faiths and belief systems — and even by different individuals within a given faith — to refer to some transcendent or transcendental power or deity, or its attributes or manifestations in the world. The root of the words is literally "godlike" (from the Latin deus, cf. Dyaus, closely related to Greek zeus, div in Persian and deva in Sanskrit), but the use varies significantly depending on which god is being discussed.  
 
Spirituality:  
Spirituality can refer to an ultimate or an alleged immaterial reality, an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of their being; or the “deepest values and meanings by which people live.” Spiritual practices, including meditation, prayer and contemplation, are intended to develop an individual's inner life; spiritual experience includes that of connectedness with a larger reality, yielding a more comprehensive self; with other individuals or the human community; with nature or the cosmos; or with the DIVINE REALM.  
 
Kehne ka maqsad yeh he ke agar spirituality nahin to phir divinity kaisi?
Comments by: Modudi On: 7/1/2011

 
4.Brothers and sisters please answer brother Mubashirs question first and dont worry about my problem that you couldn't understand :)
Comments by: UmeAimon On: 7/1/2011

 
5.Agar aap apni baat samjha nahi sakti hain to phir beech mein kyun interrup kar rahi hain? Ab is se pahle ke aap phir yeh kahein ke (moderators???) main hi chup ho jata hoon.  
Lekin yaad rakhain ke yeh public forum he aur aap jo bhi likhein gi us pe sawaal jawaab to hon ge hi.
Comments by: Modudi On: 7/1/2011

 
6.bhai sab logon ko samjhana mera FARZ nahi hai ? Agar aap ko samjh nahi aai to jis tarha aap Mubashir bhai ka sawaal IGNORE kr rahay hain mera comment bhi ignore kr dain... mai apko ziada hi nazar nai aa rhi ??  
:D
Comments by: UmeAimon On: 7/1/2011

 
7.Mohtarma asal mein aap ne interrupt kar ke aur aik intihai fuzool sawaal kar ke Mohtaram Mubashir saahib ke sawaal ko khud hi ignor karwa diya he. Aur kya matlab he aap ke? Aap mujhe ziaada is liye dikh rahi hain ke aik hi member hai poore forum pe jo be wajah ki behes kar raha he sab se aur jis ki baat kisi ko samajh nahi aa rahi aur woh aap hain. Otherwise main kyun aap ko dekhne laga? Main khawateen ka bohat ehtaraam karta hoon aur phir aap to kam se kam meri waalida ki umar ki hon gi. Lihaaza mujh pe aap ka ehtaraam lazim he.
Comments by: Modudi On: 7/1/2011

 
8.Oiiii, i wanted to focus on the meanings of these words, and after looking at them, are they still needed in the Quran for the Quran to be "divine" ?....If the Quran is a guidance to lead humans to the light, how will it do it with mysticism.  
 
Slaves of Paraoh already had "spirituality" through their self declared "Rabb", why then the need of spirituality in Moses guidance from the creator? Every religion have spirituality, more than enough, why the Quran when its a book fo constitutional rights, civil liberties, freedom of development etc?  
 
If the Quran is given to all of the humanity, then mysticism must be equally visible/measurable for everyone.  
 
If i can define the word "divine":- everything working according to the laws of the universe, is divinity -The creation is divine, thats why its firm! Everything claimed to exist without proofs, and only in few peoples mind, is not part of the creators creation, but part of the creators created creation- I.E. its the thinkers fantasy, creation....  
 
The Quran is a teaching according to the laws of nature, for all of the humanity...The Quran is according to the laws, its in a book form, its in a language one can learn, its providing laws which are equal for everyone, it provides guidance to follow in order to reach the desired goal, its a human discovery,Its target is hard working humans, its written in a unique way,thus human psyche is concidered while compiled, its an instruction to make humans practical, to make them DO whats needed and to DO whats needed one must USE the available tools in the creation. Its beneficial to the one who KNOW how to make use of the available facilities in the (physical) universe,  
 
its a "lift-up" to humanity and living book. By living "alive" book i mean its related ot everyone in every era, when the characters and qasas in the book are analyzed and then compared to our daily life, its suddenly talking to you about current affaris..... So bottom line is, everything is according to the laws of nature, no hocus pocus sim sim  
 
(I hope i undersood whats meant by "spirituality and myticism" the way Mubashir meant, that it directed to supernatural things ? like it is about having faith in a supernatural being and getting closer to the creator through practising mysticism the way our sufis used to do ?))
Comments by: Nargis On: 7/1/2011

 
9.Mohtarma Nargis sahiba, aap ne farmaya (By living "alive" book i mean its related ot everyone in every era, when the characters and qasas in the book are analyzed and then compared to our daily life, its suddenly talking to you about current affaris.....)  
 
Mohtarma, Bohat aalaa ... balke bohat hi aalaa.  
Is se behtar andaz mein shayad hi koi is baat ko samajh sakta he ke Quran kisi supernatural being se relation build karna nahi, balke real life mein kamyaab hone ke tareeqe sikhata he. Quran main jo Qisse hain woh humain hamari mojooda zindagee mein ja ba ja nazar aate hain lekin aksar log un ko samajh nahi paate kyun ke logon ka khayaal he ke Quran aik Divine Book he aur zindagee ka maqsad sirf yeh he ke "madad apni apni" OR "main aur meri family khush rahe, baaqu dunya jae bhaar mein".  
Aise hi log mukhtalif bahaane dhoondte hain aur saari zindagi inhi bahaanon ke saaath guzaar dete hain.  
 
Mujhe bohat khushi hui yeh dekh kar ke kam se kam aap un logon mein se nahi :)  
Comments by: Modudi On: 7/1/2011

 
10.what will peepal do if they find out their book who is very inteligent and have promised results if it is followed, is not divine , not bringing to earth by angel or God?  
 
Namaste
Comments by: Yellow-cow On: 7/1/2011

 
11.Salam Nargis,  
 
I am not speaking on bro Mubashir's behalf but I think you are right if you take spirituality as mysticism only but plz see it has the DIVINE part in it as well.  
Yelow-cow says very plainly and this is what I think it means; How can you say... if this book is divine it should mean like this or that , when you have not even understood the book completely yet?? OR have you ALREADY UNDERSTOOD ALL OF THIS BOOK?  
You have taken this stance because somewhere in the back of your mind you have decided already that this book cannot mean otherwise and to go look for the real meaning , isn't it ? and that has to do with something that is closer to your jugular vein perhaps sixth sence perhaps spirituality. Also regarding law of nature .. its subjective as most people (not you and me) see "might is right" only as in a law of jungle and perfect part of nature and the whole world politics is revolving arround it ..  
 
UmeAimon
Comments by: UmeAimon On: 7/1/2011

 
12.Dear UmeAimon, please correct me if i misunderstood your comment.....  
 
UmeAimon : My problem is now accepting the Quran itself as a Devine Book without geting sprituality involved.  
 
Mubashir : What i understand from this is YOU ARE ACCEPTING QURAN AS A DIVINE ( Great, Marvelous, delightful, neat ) BOOK WIHTOUT INVOLVING SO CALLED SPIRITUALITY CONCEPT.  
 
If this is true and if I got it right I am personally more than sure that this route/path/understanding is bringger of glad tiding…..  
 
Note : Message is almost crystal clear from the momment you understand FIXED LAWS OF NATURE, exercise of all this is to dig more, and/or to see how this beautiful message was corrupted so as to expain traditional brothers, and/or TO KILL PERSONAL RELIGIOUS ERG ( If any).  
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Dear All, my basic concern was with religious overshadow for these two words DIVINITY and SPIRITUALITY.  
 
Spirituality as in every religion which is related to deception of mind by attaining MOKSHA, Salvation is kind of a hypnotism which one self develops by getting into virtual reality and trying to make a connection with creator ( To make God happy and assume himself as one of the closest person to God, like children try to get closest to parents by trying to be favorite among all siblings. Children tend to forget that all chidren are equal to parents.)  
 
DIVINITY as I tried to convey above is anything which is Great, marvelous, Delightful, Neat…………..n so on and so forth. We should discard/remove all ideas of supernatural or religious understanding of this word divinity. So as said this book(Quran) is divine in a sense which is a Great, Mavelous, Neat, Delightful book which gives a REAL meaning and SOLUTION to Human life.  
 
The basic problem arises when someone fears that his respect for Quran might diminish and he might reject the book and would love to lead a selfish life, if he sacrifices the religious idea of divinity and spirituality associated with Quran………..Nay which is not the case as it is more than important and dear as now WE know it is required to end the sufferings of Humanity.  
 
A 10th class math book is important if someone wants to get thru his exams he doesn’t care whether it came from sky or core of the earth. What matters is importance of book to ACHIEVE DESIRED RESULTS.  
 
Its better to understand a book and write answers(solutions) to questions(Hurdles) given in an exam(Life) than make chits and copy without understanding. The person who understands and write exam loves the book more than a person who makes chits from the book just to COPY( for fear of getting pass marks).  
 
So this is the reason why Quran is important and we need to abide by it and respect it more than ever coz its providing the solution. You may find solution in universe, but in ONE book these many things covered which exclusively concentrates on Human enhancement as an Individual and collective society by providing permanent values and GUIDANCE.  
 
Note : I am loving Quran more than EVER. The MESSAGE which was in my shelve earlier is coming into my brain and life.  
 
Just 2 cents with my meager understanding……….Not sure if it makes sense to anyone.  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.
Comments by: Mubashir Syed On: 7/1/2011

 
13.Salam brother Mubashir,  
Just a slight clarification is needed here....  
I am trying to undedrstand this Quran WITHOUT thinking its DEVINE or SPIRITUAL...trying to remain as neutral as I can...the way an aethiest or a non born-muslim would try to understand it with only one thing in mind an that is good intentions and giving this book a fair chance, unlike many who have already made up there mind of its divinity and how it SHOULD BE rather how it is the way it is!!  
Please read yellow cow question carefully you'll get the clear picture.  
Like it or not most poeple here come with these idea already in their minds and which to me (and I am talking about my self only ) only block the real learning!  
I am not saying you should do understand it the same way but I question then how can you do it and that is what I asked...???  
UmeAimon
Comments by: UmeAimon On: 7/2/2011

 
14.Mohtarma UmeAimon saahiba, Aap khud hi conclude kar rahi hain Yellow Cow ki statement, jab ke Yellow Cow asal mein kuch aur hi keh rahi he. Mere khayaal se aap Yellow Cow se hi pooch lijiye ke woh kya keh rahi he. Yellow cow asal mein Dr. Pandit Shankar Dhyal Sharma, se mutaasir lagti he jo ke aik hindu he lekin kam se kam aap se behtar Quran ko smajhta he.  
 
woh kya kehta he, Mulahiza farmaiye;  
 
Dr. Pandit Shankar Dhyal Sharma...  
 
Qur'an:  
Amal ki kitab thi  
Dua ki kitab bana dia  
Samajhne ki kitab thi  
Parhne ki kitab bana dia  
Zindaon ka dastoor tha  
Murdon ka manshoor bana dia  
Jo ilm ki kitab thi  
Usey la ilmon ke hath thama dia  
Taskheer-e-kayenat ka dars dene aayi thi  
Sirf madarson ka nisaab bana dia  
Murda qaumon ko zinda karne aayi thi  
Murdon ko bakhshwane per laga dia  
Aye Musalmano ye tumne kia kiya?  
Zara Socho issay...
 
 
Janaab Peeli gaaye, aap ki meherbani ho gi agar aap meri baat ki tasdeeq ya tardeed kar dein.  
Kya main aap ki baat ko sahi smajh raha hoon ya yeh mohtarma UmeAimon?  
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Comments by: Modudi On: 7/2/2011

 
15.Waise mera mashwara he ke aap zara mohtarma Nargis saahiba ki baat pe bhi ghaur kar lein. Un ki baat mein bohat wazan he.
Comments by: Modudi On: 2/7/2011

 
16.Salam  
 
Brother Mubashir your writings are original and refreshing and you are right there is no spirituality in Islam. In fact it is nothing but it was concoction and fabrication attached with Islam. As you know like every intelligent person everything in this wonderful universe is, on the face of it, bound firmly by God’s permanent and inviolable laws. Says the Holy Quran “Nature’ Islam”. Laws on Nature have never failed, nor have they ever ceased to operate. They work non-stop without let or hindrance, “you will see no imperfection in God’s creation”, (67/3). On the same pattern there are inviolable principles and permanent values for mankind, made known to man through Revelation, which enable him, individually as well as collectively, to grow and develop in life and taste all the good it can afford here and in the hereafter. Unlike things in nature, however, which must observe God’s laws, man is free to adopt or reject them and to follow whatever his desires might dictate. But whereas observance of God’s laws assures a rich and fruitful life, adoption of man¬made laws offers no such guarantee and might, on the other hand, lead life to decay and destruction.  
 
The way of life revealed by God and called Al Deen or Al-Islam, provides that whatever gifts this beautiful earth of Ours has in store or can produce, should be available to all mankind in an equal manner. There is a section of people, however, who dislike it and would, on the basis of might, control the sources of production, so that they might with-hold God’s gifts from His creatures and avail of them personally according to their sweet will. The group, opposed as it is to God’s way of life (Al Islam), places all sorts of hindrances in its establishment among mankind, bringing about, what the Holy Quran describes as a struggle between Right and Wrong. Whereas Islam has unquestioned sway in nature, it has to contend with stiff opposition in human society. Consider the example of a seed sown in the earth. Given the requisite means of growth a healthy and vigorous seed will sprout, the shoot will rise high slowly and a day will come for the tiny little seed to swing as a full fledged and robust tree. The seed has the capacity to grow and attain its destiny. Likewise the eternal laws and the permanent values which, as already referred to, make up Al-Islam, have the capacity to overcome impediments in the way of their materialization and to attain their goal. In the words of the Holy Quran the “healthy concept of life, Kalema-e-Tavvib, has the capacity to go up to Him” (3 5/10), that is, to attain the heights which God has destined for it. In other words Right has the capacity and power to grapple with and overcome Wrong and pursue its own course. Happenings in human society, past and present, seem, however, to belie the conclusion. There is untruth everywhere, having full sway and giving no quarter to truth. Tyranny, exploitation, dishonesty, fraud are rampant.  
 
In its struggle with untruth, truth must prevail ultimately although it may take long to do so. Says the Holy Quern, ‘We hurl truth against untruth and it crushes its brain and untruth vanishes away” (21/18), leaving the way clear for truth to pursue its normal course. It would be incorrect to expect a result of the struggle within decades; it needs centuries to determine the outcome of the struggle. The fact, however, is that a conflict between a Allah principle and a man-made system has always ended in the victory of the former and a rout of the latter.  
 
How ever Islam is,  
 
1) Islam is a collection of inviolable principles revealed by God for the guidance of man to enable him to attain his destiny in life.  
 
(2) Those who would exploit fellow men, oppose the Allah code and give rise to the struggle between Right and Wrong.  
 
(3) Right has an inherent capacity to overcome Wrong and pursue its own course.  
 
(4) The process is a slow one, so slow that its one day equals a thousand years of man’s counting.  
 
 
The Process can, however, be quickened. The verse (35/10) already quoted “healthy concept of life, Kalema-e¬Tayyib, has the capacity to go up to Him” goes on to say, “and healthy action (of man) gives it a push upward”. That is, Allahs laws left to themselves, operate at their normal slow speed, but if at times a people adopt them in giving shape to their social structure, the speed gets accelerated and the results which would have normally taken thousands of years to produce, are achieved within a few days. Normally Allah's laws operate by evolution; man’s cooperation makes them work by revolution or, to use the scientific term, by Emergent Evolution. The process of normal evolution allows human mind time to develop gradually and appreciate Allah's laws. The onset of emergent evolution brought on by man’s cooperation is, however, too fast for human mind to keep pace with. The cooperating community itself is undoubtedly equipped to appreciate Allah's laws and assimilate their spirit, but those outside it lack the mental development needed for the purpose, and in consequence experience difficulty in owning them. A student brought up and educated normally to the final stage of his study, will tackle difficult problems with ease; but they will baffle one who is still in the middle of the course. To enable the latter to grapple with them, his education must be improved and special arrangements made for quicker mental development.  
 
The modus operandi of human intellect consists in the method of trial and error. It formulates a theory, puts it into practice and takes decades or even centuries to discover its weaknesses. Then it devises another theory and repeats the process. It might take hundreds of years to arrive at the right solution. The solution thus reached is then welcome, since during the intervening centuries the requisite mental development has already taken place.  
 
Allah's Revelation does away with the method of trial and error. It gives outright solutions without waiting for the normal mental development of mankind taking place. Special effort bas consequently to be made to familiarize man’s mind with the principles revealed much in advance of the times. The introduction among mankind of eternal Allah's laws (Al-Islam) proceeded at the normal pace apropos man’s mental development, who accepted what was within his ken and remained a stranger to the rest. All of a sudden Rasoolullah appeared on the scene in Arabia with a complete code of the laws revealed to him by Allah. Portions of the code, which happened to be beyond the mental stage of his listeners, aroused opposition. By his inimitable teaching and practice Rasoôlullah tried hard to explain to them how the code guaranteed human dignity and welfare. Some of them who shed their prejudices and cared to understand appreciated Rasoolullah’s message and cooperated with him. He gathered aroui1d him a concourse of believers and their healthy deeds greatly accelerated the normal pace of Allah's laws and in a short while produced most surprising results unparalleled in history. There was nothing extraordinary and supernatural about the achievement. It followed the eternal Allah's law that “healthy concept of life has the capacity to go up to Him and healthy action (of man) gives it a push upward’ (35110). Their deeds accelerated the pace of Allah's laws and achieved in the matter of days what should have normally taken thousands of years to materialize. Had the cooperation between Allah's laws and human activity been maintained, quicker achievements under the laws would have also maintained their pace, and who can guess what heights man would have attained by now! The cooperation ceased, however after a while and the laws resumed their original speed. The short span of time during which quicker results were achieved according to man’s counting of time, is the period during which, in the view of thinkers and historians, Islam was a success and thereafter it proved a failure. The bare fact, however, is that while moving at its normal pace of a day equal to a thousand years, Islam got extra help from man which accelerated its speed, but that later on the extra help was withdrawn leaving Islam to get along at its original normal pace.  
 
 
Salam  
 
Comments by: abdullahbashoeb On: 7/2/2011

 
17.I am on limited connectivity and this message may or may not appear correct.  
 
Dear Br. Modudi, SA: I am constrained to respond to the following remarks of yours to sister UmeAimon:  
" ....Waise yeh mohtarma UmeAimon saahiba apne taur per hi nateeja akhaz kar leti hain har baat ka aur smajhti hain ke in se aqalmand shayad dunya mein koi aur ho hi nahi sakta."  
 
" ...lekin shayad aap sahi baat samajhna hi nahi chaahati hain."  
 
Dear Br., Such personal remarks create stifling atmosphere that is not conducive to learning. This forum is meant for advancing our learning about the Quran. Please stop this personal attack. If you have understood her question and know the answer, please reply it. If you did not understand her question, please ask for clarification. If you did not like her question, please ignore it. It will be beneficial to everyone in this forum and will be much appreciated. Please ignore my post as well if you have doubts about my intention either, and accept my apologies in advance.
Comments by: dawood On: 7/4/2011

 
18.Dawood Bhai saahib, Achi baat he ke aap ko bari jaldi khayaal aa gaya ke yahan personal remarks paas ho rahe hain. Waise Maniza saahiba ko bhi mere personal remarks nazar aa gaye aur aap ko bhi, lekin yeh saara masla jahan se shuru hua, jo is se zyada bure personal remarks likhe gaye, woh aap logon ne shayad jaan boojh kar ignore kar diye. Yeh Insaan ko achanak intellectual ban jaane ka shauk kyun paida ho jaata he????  
 
Are bhai sawaal yeh he ke jab mere remarks nazar aa rahe hain to phir aap logon ko yeh remarks kyun dikhaai nahi dete?????  
Yeh dekh leejiye ghaur se aik baar phir;  
UmeAimon ne yeh kaha;  
 
And please let Dr. Qamar stay human as he never claimed otherwise.  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=13  
 
Mere intellectual ssathio, is se zyada personal remarks koi ho hi nahi sakte, kyun ke in mohtarma ne aik insaan ko yeh keh diya ke is ne doosre insaan ko khuda ya rasool bana diya he. Yeh to do shakhsiyaat ki aik saath tazheek hui goya. Kya aap logon ko itna bara ilzaam, itne ziyada personal remarks nazar nahi aaye?????  
 
Ab kyun bol rahe ho aap log aur pehle kyun nahi koi bola?????  
 
Agar main aap pe yeh Ilzaam lagaaun ke aap kisi ko nabi bana ke us ki parastish kate hain, to kaisa lage ga aap ko? Kya yeh personal remarks nahi kehlaayein ge? Agar haan, to phir us waqt kyun nahi bole aap?  
Muaaf keejiye ga lekin Yeh doghla pun kyun?
Comments by: Modudi On: 7/4/2011

 
19.Dear Umeaimon,  
 
I would like it if you could clarify why you have stated that, "And please let Dr. Qamar stay human as he never claimed otherwise"  
 
This question arises again and again, therefore even on my behalf I request that you answer this because infact dear it is an attack on us all because we never said dr.Qamar was anything else than our teacher. We have had a our share of attacks on this blog, and we do not feel that it merits another member accusing us of hero worship
Comments by: Maniza On: 7/4/2011

 
20.Dear Maniza,  
 
Somethings never change I should have known :)  
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But first would you please ask brother Moazzam, a very respectable and knowledgable person(unlike I), WHOM I addressed to in the first place, WHY he thanked me and said WELL DONE on the forum REPEATING on the same lines you are asking me to explain????  
 
ummmmmm very interesting... Where are those posts of his, can you see them?????  
 
UmeAimon
Comments by: UmeAimon On: 4/7/2011

 
21.  
Salam Umeaimon,  
 
Here is the comment by brother Moazzam, my appology.  
 
But I was not sure you had it answered/ or answered.  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=13
Comments by: Maniza On: 7/4/2011

 
22.Thanks dear Maniza for restoring the posts But why did you cut the nice truthful part dear?  
Its true when some one said...  
Power currupts and absolute power currupts absolutely!!  
 
UmeAimon
Comments by: UmeAimon On: 7/4/2011

 
23.and please dont mind my spellings ........
Comments by: UmeAimon On: 7/4/2011

 
24.Mohtarma UmeAimon, aap ne abhi tak mere sawaal ka jawaab nahi diya.  
 
And please let Dr. Qamar stay human as he never claimed otherwise.  
 
NAUZUBILLAH Kis ne kya bana diya Dr. Qamar ko aur kahan?  
 
Aap ki aakhri post dekh kar main aik aur sawaal karna chaun ga;  
 
Power currupts and absolute power currupts absolutely!!  
 
Is baat ka kya matlab he?  
Yeh aap kis ko keh rahi hain aur kyun?  
Comments by: Modudi On: 7/4/2011

 
25.Dear System Admin and/or moderator: It is intriguing that some posts are available sometimes and then they disappear. There were a few posts available in this thread yesterday and now they are gone? What is going on dear brothers and sisters? Is there some kind of technical problem here? Thanks.
Comments by: dawood On: 7/5/2011

 
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