TOPIC: Quran >> Translations
Q.Dear Brs. and Srs: Please refer to 2:34 and 2:35.  
" And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith. (2:34)" , continued next...
By: dawood On: 9/18/2011

1." We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree (HAZA ALSHAJAR), or ye run into harm and transgression." (2:35). These both are orthodox translations.  
 
Dr. QZ explains under 2:35 that the phrase "Haza Alshajar" is a pointer to the above "refusal and arrogant" behavior of Iblees. Dr. Qz writes, آدم کو بھی حکم ہو رہا ہے کہ وہ اس نافرمانی اور تکبّر کےدرخت کے قریب بھی نہ جائے (Adam is ordered not to go close to the tree of disobedience and arrogance)". Please consider the following:  
 
When Iblees disobeyed and showed arrogance (2:34), he, the Iblees was termed as "From the Rejectors (Minal Kafireen). But when Adam is advised to stay away "This Tree (Haza Alshajar)" in (2:35), Adam is being warned you will be " from the Zaalimeen (Minal Zalemeen)". To me, this indicates that the phrase "Haza Alshajar" in 2:35 is not referring to the behavior of Iblees depicted in 2:34. Otherwise, both Adam and Iblees should be Minal Kafireen as per 2:34? Can someone please shed more light on this?
Comments by: dawood On: 9/18/2011

 
2.To me the translation below by Dr Shabbir makes sense, see what you think of (2.34 &35)  
 
And when We said to the angels, “Humble yourselves and be subservient to Adammankind,  
they instantly complied humbling themselves except Iblees (Satan). He  
refused through self-glorification, and so became a rejecter of the Divine Command.  
[Thus, God endowed mankind with the ability to harness the forces in  
Nature through science. There is, however, an internal domain He has designed  
within humans, the Nafs or ´Self´. Call it ´I´, ´Self´, ´Ego´, ´Personality´,  
´Iamness´, ´Me´. This has been placed for the humans to exercise free will and  
achieve personal growth or self-actualization. But this ´self´ is vulnerable to the  
evil prompting of its own intrinsic selfish desire or that of extrinsic sources. In  
that situation the ´self´ rebels against the higher controls of human judgment,  
and more importantly, against the revealed Moral Values. This rebellious state  
of the ´self´ has the ability to rationalize its desire and emotions through the  
intellect. And this rebellious state of the ´Ego´ is Satan or Iblees. It was this  
Iblees that refused to humble itself to the higher human controls of judgment  
and Divine Commands. Incidentally, the Qur´an nowhere mentions a human  
´soul´, ´spirit´ or ´spirituality´. Iblees = Deprivation = Hopelessness = Frustration  
= Desperation and regret = Rebellious state of the human ´self´ that  
drifts away from the Divine Commands, but wishes to escape personal responsibility  
by blaming God for its own misdeeds. See 7:16. Sajdah = Prostration  
= Complete submission = Willful obedience = Utter humility = Adoration =  
Utmost commitment to Divine Cause = Humbling one´s own self]  
 
We told the early humans, Adam and his wife (men and women), “O Mankind! Reside  
in this land which is Paradise and partake the fruit thereof as you please. But  
do not go near this branching Tree (of Selfishness). Or, you will become of the  
wrongdoers.” [If you branch off into casts, sects, and rivalry, you shall replace  
your Paradise with Hell. 2:213, 4:65 10:19, 20:117-118. Zulm = To displace  
something from its rightful place = Replace good with evil = Relegate the truth  
= Transgression = Oppression = Violation of human rights = Wrongdoing]
Comments by: M Shakeel On: 9/28/2011

 
3.Dear Dawood! There is difference between both the cases.  
1) The Iblees disobeyed and showed arrogance, he, the Iblees was termed as "From the Rejectors (Minal Kafireen).  
2) Whereas Adam has been well informed (given right or wrong knowledge) a head. The doer of the same act ( denial) after well informed, would be called ZALIM (worts than Kafir).  
Go to the following verse to comprehend the sense of ZALIMEEM  
وَلَئِنْ أَتَيْتَ الَّذِينَ أُوْتُواْ الْكِتَابَ بِكُلِّ آيَةٍ مَّا تَبِعُواْ قِبْلَتَكَ وَمَا أَنتَ بِتَابِعٍ قِبْلَتَهُمْ وَمَا بَعْضُهُم بِتَابِعٍ قِبْلَةَ بَعْضٍ وَلَئِنِ اتَّبَعْتَ أَهْوَاءَهُم مِّن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ إِنَّكَ إِذاً لَّمِنَ الظَّالِمِينَ  
 
Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires,-then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong.
Comments by: moazzam On: 9/28/2011

 
4.Mr. Shakeel! Try to focus on the relevant question,that is "Haza Alshajar" is a pointer to the some thing already present in front of the second person (the addressee).Now compare both the translation as given under for this particular question, and decide the better justified one..  
Dr Shabbir: "Haza Alshajar" = this branching Tree (of Selfishness) branch off into casts, sects, and rivalry.  
Dr Qamar : "Haza Alshajar" is a pointer to the above "refusal and arrogant" behavior of Iblees.  
 
Comments by: moazzam On: 9/28/2011

 
5.

Thank you so much dear brother Moazzam,

Comments by: Nargis On: 9/28/2011

 
6.SA Br. Moazzam:  
 
"Moazzam: 2) Whereas Adam has been well informed (given right or wrong knowledge) a head. The doer of the same act ( denial) after well informed, would be called ZALIM (worts than Kafir)."  
 
Thank you. I would ask you to further comment based on the following:  
1. According to Dr. QZ, Malaika are from Humans (like influential people etc.). If Iblees is from Malaika and Malaika are from Humans, represented by Adam, then how is it that Iblees is not given the same knowledge?  
2. Secondly, it is against the Allah's character to punish someone (in this case Iblees) without giving him the proper knowledge and/or direction.  
Comments by: dawood On: 9/30/2011

 
7.1. According to Dr. QZ, Malaika are from Humans (like influential people etc.). If Iblees is from Malaika and Malaika are from Humans, represented by Adam, then how is it that Iblees is not given the same knowledge?  
 

HE GOT IT, but he DENIED IT.  
 
A PERSON WHO READ IN ORDER TO NOT UNDERSTAND, HE WONT GET IT. A PERSON WHO DON'T PONDER AND TRY TO GRASP THE MESSAGE IN LOOHE MAHFOUZ WON'T GET IT. A PERSON WHO IS PRESENTED THE KNOWLEDGE AND SEE ITS PROMISED RESULTS, BUT REJECT IT AS A RESULT OF TAKABBOR, IS IBLEES. A PERSON WHO USE HIS HEAD AND SENSES, DO THE RATTAL AND TASREEF OF THE UNIVERSE / CREATION, IS THE ONE WHO GRASP, DECODE, COMPREHEND IT. ADAM USED HIS HEAD AND SENSE, HE GOT THE MESSAGE THROUGH HIS TALENT AND EFFORT OF OBSERVING AND UNDERSTANDING.  
 
HE TRIED TO IMPLEMENT IT  
 
HE PRESENTED THE MESSAGE AND ITS IMPLEMENTATION TO THE MALAIKA  
 
MALAIKA DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT AT FIRST AND HAD THEIR ARGUMENTS, COMMENTS WHATSOEVER  
 
THEN THEY USED THEIR HEAD, THEY TRIED TO UNDERSTAND IT AND THEY GOT IT  
 
BUT ONE, IBLEES DIDNT, HE REJECTED IT AND TRIED TO CREATE FASAAD LIKE YOU KNOW WHOM  
 
SO IBLEES GOT THE MESSAGE BUT HE DENIED IT  
 
HE DID TAKABBOR  
 
SO HE GOT IT GOT IT GOT IT GOT IT GOT IT BUT DENIED IT DENIED IT DENIED IT DENIED IT DENIED IT DID TAABBOR DID TAKABBOR DID TAABBOR DID TAKKABBOR.  
 
Adamn got the knowledge and he tried to implement it, iblees tried to hinder him when the knowledge Adam got through Allah, was presented to him and his fellow Malaikas.  
 
DO YOU GET THE MESSAGE NOW OR WILL YOU REJECT IT?

 
 
Comments by: Nargis On: 9/30/2011

 
8."Nargis: DO YOU GET THE MESSAGE NOW OR WILL YOU REJECT IT?" Thank you dear sister Nargis, you have perfected the art of making a simple thing into a complicated one, as your rambling suggests. It looks like a serious personality disorder.  
 
I would however wait for Br. Moazzam's response if he agrees with you or he has something else to say. Thank you for your efforts, though.
Comments by: dawood On: 9/30/2011

 
9.My brother Dawood you are saying that:  
(It looks like a serious personality disorder.)  
I want to tell you that I fully agree with you and I also want to add that these people make simple things very complicated and I dont know who is telling them to do all this because I am reading the books of Dr. Qamar but he is telling every thing very clearly and not making things complicated but other people who are answering questions on this blog are making things complicated and using bad words for people who ask questions and they also use funny names to write on the blog to make fun of others who ask questions. I want to show you a very simple mistake I pointed here:  
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=32&QID=1797  
You can see that Mr. Moazzam made it complicated and then madam Nargis the bully used bad words for me as usual. And I can tell you in advance that Mr. Moazzam will say this now:  
(Sister Nargis is right) and then madam Nargis will also say this (Brother Moazzam is right) no matter if they are right or wrong and then madam Nargis will also use bad words for you and then some more people with funny names like lanati cow sheep hacker will come and start making fun of you because this is what they are doing and you can see it in every discussion if you read the old discussions.  
Also I want to tell you that I asked a very simple question in this discussion:  
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1791  
My question was that Dr. Qamar in his translation is saying that Solomon was a person and not a attribute but no one gave me the answer and as usual I only received bad words in reply and this give me one conclusion that Dr. Qamar who is the author of this book HAQEEQAT E SAUM and many other books is doing good work sincerely but these other people are making his work look bad with all this funny thing they are doing on this blog.
Comments by: Amir ali khan On: 10/1/2011

 
10.

Junaid / Mudoodi/ Parwez / amir khan,,,who is having a personality disorder ? if it is me, why is it you who called Dhulqarnain a nigger and now trying to use him for your own revenge against people you dislike..? Now you will say it is not you and you are in chennai and you just asked Dhulqarnain a question about wall street new York and it was a coincident that you uploaded a video on your facebook that surprisingly was about the same topic?  
 
Ok anyway, now your getting boring, so if you have all these issues with the blog and dont like it here, why dont you go out the same door as your other nick, Muddodi? Oh sorry, that one was banned, but you can still try one of your other two nicks...Hit the door if you're bore!!!!!

 
 
Comments by: Nargis2 On: 10/1/2011

 
11.Brother Dawood! Salam,  
A good question by a genius quranic student.  
No doubt Malaika are not other creature than Adam being, specific character among Adam called Malaika, same as specific character called JINN fron Adam being.So these character has been described in contrast with rest of Adam (general public)  
Please identify the differenc between both of them where Malaika vs Adam being discussed.  
Aadam = Normal human being (general public)  
Malaika = The powerful elite (ruling class) among human being.  
Remember Malaika had not given knowledge before order of Sajda to Adam.read the verse 2/30  
 
30 وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً ۖ قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ  
جب ملائکہ (با اثر افراد )سے ربوبیت کا تقاضہ ہوا کہ زمین میں پالنہاری کا نظام قائم کیا جائے تو ملائکہ نے قدرت سے تقاضہ کیا کہ کیا قدرت ان لوگوں کو مقرر کرے گی جو اس زمین میں فساد کرتے ہیں اور خون بہاتے ہیں اور کہا کہ ہم بھی تو قدرت کے قوانین کے مطابق بے عیب جدو جہد کرتے ہیں قدرت نے کہا، ائے بشر قدرت کو خوب معلوم ہے جس کا تم کو علم نہیں۔  
 
مباحث :۔  
اذ اور اذا کا استعمال بھی کسی دعوے کی دلیل دینے سے پہلے ہوتا ہے ۔اس مقام سے پہلے بھی کوئی دعوی کیا گیا ہے جس کی دلیل میں قصہ آدم و ابلیس پیش کیا جا رہا ہے اور وہ دعویٰ وحی الہی کے نفاذ اور اس کے ذریعے ایک مثالی معاشرہ کے قیام کا حصول ہے۔ اس لیے ذہن میں رکھئے کہ یہاں کوئی دیو مالائی داستان نہیں بلکہ ایک استحصالی معاشرہ کی ایک فلاحی معاشرہ میں تبدیلی کی داستان ہے۔اور جہاں جہاں رب سے مکالمہ بیان کیا گیا ہے اصلاً وہ انسان کی سوچ اور اس سوچ کے نتیجے میں اٹھنے والے سوالات کا بیان ہے ۔ یہ وہ سوالات ہیں جو ہر انسان کسی عمل سے پہلے خود اپنے آپ سے کرتا ہے ۔  
Adam had been given Knowledge,But Malaika were not.There is one misunderstanding that, the same was presented to Malaika, to know the fact read the Dr Qamars Translation as under.  
31 وَعَلَّمَ آدَمَ الْأَسْمَاءَ كُلَّهَا ثُمَّ عَرَضَهُمْ عَلَى الْمَلَائِكَةِ فَقَالَ أَنبِئُونِي بِأَسْمَاءِ هَٰؤُلَاءِ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ  
اور آدم کوتمام ضابطوں کی تعلیم دی پھر ان کو صاحب اختیار لوگوں کے سامنے پیش کیا اور کہا مجھ کو ان لوگوں کے ضابطے بتاؤ اگر کہ تم سچے ہو۔  
 
مباحث:۔  
اس آیت میں آدم کو ضابطوں کی تعلیم کے بعد ملائکہ پر کس کو پیش کیا ؟ مفسرین اور مترجمین نے عرضھم میں ھم کا مرجع الاسماء بتایا ہے۔ ان کا کہنا ہے کہ آدم کو تعلیمات کے بعد ملائکہ کو حکم ہوا کہ ان اسماء کو بتاؤ۔ اسماء مونث ہے اس لئے اسماء کے لئے ھم کی ضمیر جو کہ مذکّر کی ضمیر ہے نہیں آئیگی بلکہ ھنّ کی ضمیر آئیگی جو کہ مؤنث کی ضمیر ہے۔ کچھ لوگوں نے بلا جواز ملائکہ کو مرجع قرار دیا حالانکہ ملائکہ پر تو پیش کیا گیا تھا۔  
لامحالہ ھم کا مرجع صرف اور صرف آدم ہی رہ جاتا ہے اور آدم کے لئے جمع کی ضمیر کا مطلب ہے کہ اس آیت میں جس آدم کا ذکر ہے وہ اکیلا نہیں تھا بلکہ آدم بمع ذریت موجود تھا۔ مزید آگے لفظ ھولاء تو قطعیت کے ساتھ بتا رہا ہے کہ یہ لوگ بہت تعداد میں تھےکیونکہ ھولاء بھی جمع کے لئے اسم اشارہ ہے۔  
 
Alas the verse 32and 33 makse the said version more clear.  
32 قَالُوا سُبْحَانَكَ لَا عِلْمَ لَنَا إِلَّا مَا عَلَّمْتَنَا ۖ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُ  
 
33 قَالَ يَا آدَمُ أَنبِئْهُم بِأَسْمَائِهِمْ ۖ فَلَمَّا أَنبَأَهُم بِأَسْمَائِهِمْ قَالَ أَلَمْ أَقُل لَّكُمْ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ غَيْبَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَأَعْلَمُ مَا تُبْدُونَ وَمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْتُمُونَ  
 
 
Now come up at the basic question you asked, the denial of Allah's order became KAFIR (called Iblees)  
34 وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لِآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ أَبَىٰ وَاسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ  
وہ وقت بھی یاد کرو جب ہم نے صاحب اختیار لوگوں کوحکم دیا کہ آدم کے لئے سرنگوں ہو جاؤ تو سب سرنگوں ہوئے سوائے ابلیس کے، اس نے نافرمانی کی اور تکبر  
Because Adan was given knowledge therefore denial will be called ZALIM(the worst than kafir)  
35 وَقُلْنَا يَا آدَمُ اسْكُنْ أَنتَ وَزَوْجُكَ الْجَنَّةَ وَكُلَا مِنْهَا رَغَدًا حَيْثُ شِئْتُمَا وَلَا تَقْرَبَا هَٰذِهِ الشَّجَرَةَ فَتَكُونَا مِنَ الظَّالِمِينَ  
Comments by: moazzam On: 10/1/2011

 
12.

Thank you brother moazzam for your brilliant explanation as always. Brother Dawood, thank you for asking such a good question, after this explanation I learnt something new. so sorry for completely misunderstanding your question

Comments by: Nargis On: 10/1/2011

 
13.AAL AASTANA MEMBERS(INCLUDING GRUGEE MOAZZAM: WHAT IS THE CREATURE JINN, IF IT IS AMONG ADAM THEN HOW WOULD YOU JUSTIFY THE FOLLOWING QURANIC VERSES?  
1)"KHALAQTAHU MINNARIN WA KHALAQTAHU MINTEEN"  
2) "KHALAQAL INSANA MIN SALSALIN KAL FKHAAR WA KHALAQAL JAANA MIMARIJIN MINNAR"(surah rehman)
Comments by: Mujeeb On: 10/1/2011

 
14.ATTENTION PLEASE!  
 
Dear all, I am about to disclose a real conspiracy going on at this forum and I want everyone to pay attention. I know my post will get deleted by the admins who are also involved in this mudslinging but I must tell them that I will re post this again and again if it gets deleted.  
 
I have been trying to stay away from Aastana due to the reason that as per my understanding, a group with a very narrow vision has been trying to promote an absurd ideology based on conjecture to general public and under the disguise of Quranic teaching the same group has been propogating UN as a Quranic organization. Please note that this group is also misrepresenting and damaging the image of Dr. Qamar and his research by adding material based on conjecture.  
 
I am not surprised to hear the baseless allegations of Nargis who is of course the part of this group. The other person is of course one of the admins "MAniza" who in fact passed a threat to me saying "do not throw stones on others while sitting in glass", though I was unable to understand it earlier on. I tried my level best not to get involved in all this mess but now I am being forced to disclose some facts about the group and it's activities. I would also answer the baseless allegations by Nargis which I think are backed by Aastana management since they were imposed on me after the open threat given to me by Maniza on another thread and since the comments from Nargis are still there and not deleted.  
 
Nargis is a suspicious character who came out of nowhere at this forum backed by the admin "Maniza: and started discussing things with almost every participant on aastana. She tried to contact almost every participant in private using Email, Facebook, Skype and cell phone and as a matter I was contacted by her when I started participating in discussions. She and Maniza had a special grudge with Dr. Shabbir and she told me that Dr. Qamar instructed her to post using the ID "BOB" to counter Aurangzaib and his group. I am sure readers must have noticed how this character "bob" was involved in hot debates and confrontations with Aurangzaib in the past. In fact Nargis and Maniza are the ones who forced Aurangzaib to leave this forum by showing the kind of disrespect which no one can tolerate.  
Later on I was contacted by Maniza and she told me the following:  
1) Aurangzaib stole her translation work and used his name on the books about "Salaat" and "Saum".  
2) Aurangzaib joined Dr. Asar because he was offeres a salary of 200,000 Rs.  
3) Aurangzaib requested her to ban my ID Junaid several time.  
However, no proof or evidence was provided to me for all the three allegations even though I insisted.  
 
Dear readers please dont be surprised to read that the ridiculous IDs like "Universal lanati", "Yellow cow" and "Black sheep" are owned by none other but Nargis who is using these IDs to attack anyone who disagree with Moazzam. On the other hand I was expecting that Moazzam who calls himself a Quranist might be unaware of this but then I was really surprised to know that both Moazzam and Maniza were aware of all these activities by Nargis.  
The same Nargis disrespected Aurangzaib and Zubair who both did a lot of hard-work by translating the books of Dr. Qamar but when they were being insulted, no one form aastana management came forward to help them.  
 
Another well known person named Dr. Shabbir who translated QXP can be seen posting some sarcastic remarks on aastana and getting insulted in reply. I am sure you all will be surprised to read that the ID "Dr. Shabbir is also owned by "Nargis" or "Maniza"in an attempt to belittle him and show him as a villain, while the real Dr. Shabbir might even not be aware of this that he is posting on aastana and please note that this act of deception was backed up by all the admins on this forum.  
 
By now, the mystery of few characters including "BOB", "UNIVERSAL LANATI", "YELLOW COW" is solved but the two IDs "Modudi" and "Perwez1" which were constantly being used to disrespect Dhulqarnain and Dr. Asar are still not discussed.  
 
Who is using those IDs?  
 
I would like to draw attention of all the readers towards the previous posts by this ID Modoodi who accused Dhulqarnain and attacked him by passing racial remarks. Please note that the only three persons involved in a hot debate with Dhulqarnain were Nargis, Moazzam and Naeem Sheikh. In fact one of these participants openly used the words "Black Man" for Dhulqarnain and that member was Mr. Naeem Sheikh.  
Also to mention that this character "Modudi" was constantly insulting another participant "Ume Aimon" on this forum. Please note that "Nargis" and "Maniza" always had problems with "Ume Aimon" and this can be seen in all the previous threads on this forum. Keeping in mind the hot debates between Dhulqarnain and three participants when Dhulqarnain was insulted by "Modudi", as well as the open hatred for Ume Aimon in the hearts of Nargis and Maniza, the readers can now decide themselves about who actually owns the ID called "Modudi".  
 
The other ID Perwez which was owned by Mr. Tariq Satti is well known to almost everyone who reads the posts on this forum. After Mr. Tariq Satti left the forum, another member who is also an admin on aastana created the ID "Perwez1" and the proof is that Perwez1 shared an Email conversation between Adnan Muhammad Khan and Aurangzaib which was only accessible by someone having admin rights on this forum. I am only an ordinary member on this forum so there is no way I can access the confidential Email conversations between executive members. The same person "Perwez1" accused Aurangzaib for taking money from Dr. Asar and this allegation was initiated by Maniza who told me on phone that Aurangzaib left aastana because he was offered a huge monthly salary from Dr. Asar and she quoted the same amount that is Rs. 200.000/- while Dr, Asar was constantly attacked by Naeem Sheikh, Moazzam and specially Maniza on this forum which can be seen in the previous threads.  
Also to be noted that the same character "Perwez1" was constantly involved in arguments with Dhulqarnain when Nargis, Moazzam and Naeem Sheikh were having a hot debate with Dhulqarnain.  
 
Dear readers, please note that I have no problems with any of the people who were attacked by the IDs I have been accused of using. Rather it was Nargis, Maniza and Moazzam who had issues with all the above mentioned persons and I am sure Aurangzaib, Zubair, Ume Aimon, Dhulqarnain, Dr. Shabbir and also Dr. Asar will also agree with me that only two ladies Nargis and Maniza had serious problems with them while I still have good relations with all of them, therefore all the allegations by Nargis against me are wrong.  
 
Those who have read the book written by Aurangzaib, must have noted that he pointed out two ladies from Scandinavia who are conspiring on this forum and trying to misguide readers. These two ladies are none other than Nargis who lives in Norway and Maniza who lives in Denmark.  
(In fact if you check the ID Perwez1 it is from Norway too).  
 
I would now like to tell everyone that the management and admins of aastana are well aware of all the drama going on at this forum since the beginning and Moazzam who claims to be a Quranist has deliberately supported all this drama by Nargis and Maniza, despite being aware of the fact that they are using multiple IDs with ridiculous names to attack other members on the forum. Also to mention that this drama of multiple IDs was created to deceive the readers that a lot of people are participating in discussions on the forum and it is attracting more and more members everyday.  
 
Finally I would like to say that no matter how good aastana team is at research, but I cannot consider them as Quranists because they have been involved in so much deception.
Comments by: Junaid2 On: 10/1/2011

 
15.Nargis and Amirkhan,  
 
Your comments to each other have been deleted, it seems you both are on a personal vendetta and this forum is not the appropriate place for this.
Comments by: Maniza On: 10/1/2011

 
16.COMMENTS FROM NARGIS and AMIR KHAN GOT DELETED BUT WITH THAT, COMMENTS FROM JUNAID WERE ALSO DELETED. MANIZA IS PRETENDING AS IF SHE IS VERY INNOCENT AND SHE NEVER DID ANYTHING WRONG. BUT IT IS SHE WHO ENCOURAGED NARGIS TO USE MULTIPLE IDS TO BELITTLE SO MANY INDIVIDUALS WHO REALLY WORKED HARD FOR THIS FORUM. COME ON AASTANA!  
IF AURANGZAIB'S CRITICISM CAN BE POSTED ON THE FORUM, WHY ARE YOU DELETING MY POST?  
ANYWAY IF YOU'LL DELETE IT ONCE, I'LL POST IT THREE TIMES, AND IF YOU'LL BLOCK ME, I WILL CREATE 3 MORE IDS BUT I ASSURE YOU THAT YOU CANNOT STOP ME FROM EXPOSING THE FACES OF THOSE WHO CALL THEMSELVES QURANIST YET THEY ARE SUPPORTING A DIRTY GAME OF DECEPTION.  
MY POST GOT DELETED AS SOON AS I POSTED IT AND THIS SHOWS THAT MANIZA AND NARGIS ACTUALLY OWNS THIS SITE AND NOW THEY ARE AFRAID OF GETTING EXPOSED
 
 
 
 
Dear all, I am about to disclose a real conspiracy going on at this forum and I want everyone to pay attention. I know my post will get deleted by the admins who are also involved in this mudslinging but I must tell them that I will re post this again and again if it gets deleted.  
 
I have been trying to stay away from Aastana due to the reason that as per my understanding, a group with a very narrow vision has been trying to promote an absurd ideology based on conjecture to general public and under the disguise of Quranic teaching the same group has been propogating UN as a Quranic organization. Please note that this group is also misrepresenting and damaging the image of Dr. Qamar and his research by adding material based on conjecture.  
 
I am not surprised to hear the baseless allegations of Nargis who is of course the part of this group. The other person is of course one of the admins "MAniza" who in fact passed a threat to me saying "do not throw stones on others while sitting in glass", though I was unable to understand it earlier on. I tried my level best not to get involved in all this mess but now I am being forced to disclose some facts about the group and it's activities. I would also answer the baseless allegations by Nargis which I think are backed by Aastana management since they were imposed on me after the open threat given to me by Maniza on another thread and since the comments from Nargis are still there and not deleted.  
 
Nargis is a suspicious character who came out of nowhere at this forum backed by the admin "Maniza: and started discussing things with almost every participant on aastana. She tried to contact almost every participant in private using Email, Facebook, Skype and cell phone and as a matter I was contacted by her when I started participating in discussions. She and Maniza had a special grudge with Dr. Shabbir and she told me that Dr. Qamar instructed her to post using the ID "BOB" to counter Aurangzaib and his group. I am sure readers must have noticed how this character "bob" was involved in hot debates and confrontations with Aurangzaib in the past. In fact Nargis and Maniza are the ones who forced Aurangzaib to leave this forum by showing the kind of disrespect which no one can tolerate.  
Later on I was contacted by Maniza and she told me the following:  
1) Aurangzaib stole her translation work and used his name on the books about "Salaat" and "Saum".  
2) Aurangzaib joined Dr. Asar because he was offeres a salary of 200,000 Rs.  
3) Aurangzaib requested her to ban my ID Junaid several time.  
However, no proof or evidence was provided to me for all the three allegations even though I insisted.  
 
Dear readers please dont be surprised to read that the ridiculous IDs like "Universal lanati", "Yellow cow" and "Black sheep" are owned by none other but Nargis who is using these IDs to attack anyone who disagree with Moazzam. On the other hand I was expecting that Moazzam who calls himself a Quranist might be unaware of this but then I was really surprised to know that both Moazzam and Maniza were aware of all these activities by Nargis.  
The same Nargis disrespected Aurangzaib and Zubair who both did a lot of hard-work by translating the books of Dr. Qamar but when they were being insulted, no one form aastana management came forward to help them.  
 
Another well known person named Dr. Shabbir who translated QXP can be seen posting some sarcastic remarks on aastana and getting insulted in reply. I am sure you all will be surprised to read that the ID "Dr. Shabbir is also owned by "Nargis" or "Maniza"in an attempt to belittle him and show him as a villain, while the real Dr. Shabbir might even not be aware of this that he is posting on aastana and please note that this act of deception was backed up by all the admins on this forum.  
 
By now, the mystery of few characters including "BOB", "UNIVERSAL LANATI", "YELLOW COW" is solved but the two IDs "Modudi" and "Perwez1" which were constantly being used to disrespect Dhulqarnain and Dr. Asar are still not discussed.  
 
Who is using those IDs?  
 
I would like to draw attention of all the readers towards the previous posts by this ID Modoodi who accused Dhulqarnain and attacked him by passing racial remarks. Please note that the only three persons involved in a hot debate with Dhulqarnain were Nargis, Moazzam and Naeem Sheikh. In fact one of these participants openly used the words "Black Man" for Dhulqarnain and that member was Mr. Naeem Sheikh.  
Also to mention that this character "Modudi" was constantly insulting another participant "Ume Aimon" on this forum. Please note that "Nargis" and "Maniza" always had problems with "Ume Aimon" and this can be seen in all the previous threads on this forum. Keeping in mind the hot debates between Dhulqarnain and three participants when Dhulqarnain was insulted by "Modudi", as well as the open hatred for Ume Aimon in the hearts of Nargis and Maniza, the readers can now decide themselves about who actually owns the ID called "Modudi".  
 
The other ID Perwez which was owned by Mr. Tariq Satti is well known to almost everyone who reads the posts on this forum. After Mr. Tariq Satti left the forum, another member who is also an admin on aastana created the ID "Perwez1" and the proof is that Perwez1 shared an Email conversation between Adnan Muhammad Khan and Aurangzaib which was only accessible by someone having admin rights on this forum. I am only an ordinary member on this forum so there is no way I can access the confidential Email conversations between executive members. The same person "Perwez1" accused Aurangzaib for taking money from Dr. Asar and this allegation was initiated by Maniza who told me on phone that Aurangzaib left aastana because he was offered a huge monthly salary from Dr. Asar and she quoted the same amount that is Rs. 200.000/- while Dr, Asar was constantly attacked by Naeem Sheikh, Moazzam and specially Maniza on this forum which can be seen in the previous threads.  
Also to be noted that the same character "Perwez1" was constantly involved in arguments with Dhulqarnain when Nargis, Moazzam and Naeem Sheikh were having a hot debate with Dhulqarnain.  
 
Dear readers, please note that I have no problems with any of the people who were attacked by the IDs I have been accused of using. Rather it was Nargis, Maniza and Moazzam who had issues with all the above mentioned persons and I am sure Aurangzaib, Zubair, Ume Aimon, Dhulqarnain, Dr. Shabbir and also Dr. Asar will also agree with me that only two ladies Nargis and Maniza had serious problems with them while I still have good relations with all of them, therefore all the allegations by Nargis against me are wrong.  
 
Those who have read the book written by Aurangzaib, must have noted that he pointed out two ladies from Scandinavia who are conspiring on this forum and trying to misguide readers. These two ladies are none other than Nargis who lives in Norway and Maniza who lives in Denmark.  
(In fact if you check the ID Perwez1 it is from Norway too).  
 
I would now like to tell everyone that the management and admins of aastana are well aware of all the drama going on at this forum since the beginning and Moazzam who claims to be a Quranist has deliberately supported all this drama by Nargis and Maniza, despite being aware of the fact that they are using multiple IDs with ridiculous names to attack other members on the forum. Also to mention that this drama of multiple IDs was created to deceive the readers that a lot of people are participating in discussions on the forum and it is attracting more and more members everyday.  
 
BTW: I would ask the readers to please note the similarity between Moazzam's writing and that of Naeem Sheik's. Can you tell me that these two people are same or different?  
After observing the way of writing, can't you realize that they are the same person?  
According to my observation, they are same coz one need a person other than Nargis to say YES every time, no matter whether he is promoting Quran or UN Charter.  
 
Finally I would like to say that no matter how good aastana team is at research, grammar or translation, but I cannot consider them as Quranists because they have been involved in so much deception.
 
Comments by: Junaid2 On: 10/1/2011

 
17.DEAR JUNAID  
 
YOUR COMMENTS WILL REMAIN FOR YOUR PLEASURE OR FOR THOSE WHO FEEL THE SAME AS YOU
Comments by: Maniza On: 10/1/2011

 
18.OH PLEASE STOP ACTING AS IF YOU ARE DOING A FAVOR TO ME AND STOP PRETENDING TO BE NICE AND POLITE.  
THE THREAT THAT WAS GIVEN TO ME FROM YOU IS STILL THERE ON ONE OF THE THREAD.  
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SUPPORTED THIS ACT OF DECEPTION ON EVERY STAGE AND IT IS YOU WHO ENCOURAGED NARGIS TO DO HER DIRTY MUDSLINGING ON EVERYONE INCLUDING ME.  
YOU HAVE ALREADY DELETED MY COMMENTS ONCE AND NOW YOU HAVE NO CHOICE COZ YOU ALREADY KNOW I WILL KEEP POSTING THEM AGAIN AND AGAIN NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU DELETE THEM.
Comments by: Junaid2 On: 10/1/2011

 
19.BTW: YOU ARE YET TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE FOR YOUR FOLLOWING ACCUSATIONS ON AURANGZAIB:  
1) AURANGZAIB IS GETTING PAID BY DR. ASARUL ISLAM A SUM OF RS. 200,000/-  
2) AURANGZAIB STOLE YOUR TRANSLATION WORK AND USED HIS NAME ON THE BOOKS.  
3) AURANGZAIB REQUESTED YOU TO BAN JUNAID PERMANENTLY FROM AASTANA.  
 
I HOPE YOU DO HAVE AT LEAST THIS MUCH MORAL COURAGE TO ACCEPT THAT IT WAS YOU WHO CAME UP WITH THESE ACCUSATIONS!
Comments by: Junaid2 On: 10/1/2011

 
20.My brother Dawood you are saying that:  
(Thank you dear sister Nargis, you have perfected the art of making a simple thing into a complicated one, as your rambling suggests. It looks like a serious personality disorder. )  
I want to tell you that I fully agree with you that it looks like a serious personality disorder. When you asked this question the first reply from madam Nargis was this:  
(DO YOU GET THE MESSAGE NOW OR WILL YOU REJECT IT?)  
Then Mr. Moazzam said this:  
(Brother Dawood! Salam, A good question by a genius quranic student. )  
And when Moazzam said it is a good question then all of a sudden a 360 degree U turn by madam Nargis:  
(Brother Dawood, thank you for asking such a good question, after this explanation I learnt something new. so sorry for completely misunderstanding your question )  
This show that your comment is 100% correct because when a person cannot think his or her own mind and change his or her view because of other person then this is a case of serious personality disorder.  
 
I can see that my last post is deleted. I only said one thing that brother Dawood is right. I dont know why only those comments where a person comment against madam Nargis are deleted but when madam Nargis use bad words against other people then no one delete those comments.
Comments by: Amir ali khan On: 10/1/2011

 
21.O GEEEE, i also noticed this darling Nargis, she is not good geeeeeee, Why Nargis got U Turn, lo dasssooooooo, ye tu GIRGITEEEEEE hai jeeeeeeee, personality disorder to chohta lafaza hai jeeeeee... sorry jee but i always second SACH geeeeeeee.
Comments by: Saad Haider On: 10/4/2011

 
22.

Ohhh jeee Saad Haidar / B.K ko taqleef ho gaye us ke bhagwaan Aurungzaib ka bott tor dia maine,,,ek bar nahi hazaar bar toro gi.  
 
Like here http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1794  
 
Jao ja ke ghaddaro ki pooja karo, tumhare jhoote sach se mujhe koi farq nahi parta. Mere SACHE MUCHE SACH se tum logo ko TB ho gaye hai, chal hatt para

Comments by: Nargis On: 10/4/2011

 
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