TOPIC: Quran >> Translations
Q.Salamun Alaykum  
 
Can someone kindly explain if this translation is correct. And if correct, whats the purpose?  
 
2:228 After divorce, women shall wait three menstruations before remarriage.
By: ardee On: 10/23/2010

1.WS  
 
2: 228......Divorced women Shall wait concerning themselves For three monthly periods....  
 
Wait for what ?  
 
2:228 ...Nor is it lawful for them To hide what God Hath created in their wombs, If they have faith In God and the Last Day.....  
 
How will they hide whats in their womb when its coming out anyway? If it means , dont hide it from ur x or new husband,why not say so? And if the intention is to make it clear if she is pregnant or not, then this iddah is only for pregnant women, not those whos not. Not every woman is pregnant at the time of divorce and most women know if they are pregnant or not. Its not a ticking bomb xploding after 3 months.....  
 
 
2:228 And their husbands Have the better right To take them back In that period, if They wish for reconciliation.  
 
So why cant a woman take back her husband after three months? He can take her back if THEY wish reconciliation ?  
 
2:228 And women shall have rights Similar to the rights Against them, according To what is equitable;  
 
They are equal , , , ,BUT  
 
2:228 But men have a degree (Of advantage) over them. And God is Exalted in Power, Wise.  
 
Sounds strange, , , ITs a contradiction to me. First they are equal, but men have a degree over,,,,,  
 
Aya. 2: 222 is talking about "menses" and the word used as Dr Qamar showed, is MUKHEZ not KheZ. Why not use the proper word for menses if its about menses? And whats unclean, the women while menstruating or the blood itself? If its keep away from them because women r unclean, it would include everything, not only sex.  
 
The word used for clean is tatharoun, and the next part of this verse is saying : But when they have Purified themselves, Ye may approach them In any manner, time, or place Ordained for you by God.  
 
If purification would mean to become tathaar, then where is the method for this purification? Again, if it mean to have a shower,then they would have been clean if they had a shower while they were menstruating. If water is the only way to get purified, then it should work all the time. Why didnt the verse say, approach them when they finished their periods and then cleaned themself ?  
 
in the end the translation of the verse is saying : For God loves those Who turn to Him constantly And He loves those Who keep themselves pure and clean,  
 
It means God dont love women for at least one week in a month. . . . . It doesnt make sense. Even white ppl keep themself clean and know how to take a bath ,,,they even wear expencieve perfumes shower gel's , , , , why then say something we would know by ourself? I knw muslim friends who dont follow this aya anyway, , , , does it mean they are hated by God all the time ?  
 
Then the next verse is talking about 223. Your wives are As a tilth unto you; So approach your tilth When or how ye will;  
 
Of course this is about sex or Bokhari's beemari sex as he explaines it in : http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/060.sbt.html#006.060.050 . Volume 6, Book 60, Number 50:  
 
Brother Momin, if ur reading this i would like to share with you why i said "Im BOB and not Boob",,,because the filthy mullamind is all about sex and women as we can see in the above translation . They think this book is about sex hijab sharaab,shabaab,72 hoories,gambling and stealing zorostrian hindu rituals....!!! A divine book has to be a guidiance for the homo sapiens so he can develope to higher levels, not so he can learn how to take a bath, what to chew meat, how to sleep with women, how to prepare themself for wine and women in the paradise, what hand to use for wiping their *** after a visit to the toilet, the beard-to be or not to be? its disgusting how they made these filthy ideas from the Quran.  
 
Back to the verse 2:223 , Ur wives (Nisa) is like ur thilths So approach your tilth When or how ye will; , , , Why Is not the word for wife used here ? Arabic language should have a proper word for wife, eh ? Can i approach my girlfriends (if they are NISA,WOMEN) just like i want ? This verse is allowin me to apporach my thilths,,sorry, i mean women just like i want because its not using the proper word for wife. Even the english language have a word for wife,guess what it is? Its wife !!! Women happens to be girlfriends,daughters,sister,friends,mothers,grandmothers,wives,,its a general word for the female gender ....  
 
And in the end the verse is saying : 2:223 But do some good act For your souls beforehand; And fear God, And know that ye are To meet Him (in the Hereafter), And give (these) good tidings To those who believe.  
 
What kind of good acts? Should he buy her a gift or dance for her ?  
 
Then in the next verse Allah is saying : 224. And make not God's (name) an excuse In your oaths against Doing good, or acting rightly, Or making peace Between persons; For God is One Who heareth and knoweth All things.  
 
How can a husband "misuse" Gods name if he is doing som good things for his own wife? Why ar we talking about oaths when it was all about happy hours with our wives? "Or makin peace between "PERSONS",,,, how would "PERSONS" get peace if a man is apporaching his thilth and doing good acts for her before approaching her ?  
 
Next verse is again talking about oaths intentions hisab kitab, , , , why?  
 
and then the verse 226 is about waiting period of 4 months ,but if they return, god is FORGIVING.. . .So some kind of a sin gunah is goin on here otherwise forgivness wouldnt be required?  
 
Then divorce is ok and the verse of 2:223 is talking about THREE months. . . .or was it 4. . .?:-O  
 
This translation is all confusing and i still dont understand why proper words for wife and periods is not used. . Al mukhez and al nisa,,,heyy thats proper nouns? does it mean special kind of women have a special kind of menstruation? pheew .... :)  
 
sorry sir, but the translation doesnt look correct to me....
Comments by: bob On: 10/23/2010

 
2.Dear BOB: very interesting to have read your comments.. waiting others to put their valuable comments on such interesting topic.  
Comments by: Adnan Muhammad Khan On: 10/23/2010

 
3.Salamun Alaykum Bob  
 
So why dont the man also wait three months? Why only women? And what is this iddah really?
Comments by: ardee On: 10/24/2010

 
4.Dear Bob,  
How can I miss your comments full of questions. I like questions and am keenly interested  
in the out come of such discussions. I can understand why you wrote, you are bob not boob.  
We claim that the book is beyond time and space, if IDDAT is required to find out regarding preganancy  
of the women. Now, it can be known as soon as it happens by pregnancy test.  
Comments by: momin On: 10/24/2010

 
5.Salam,  
 
I didn't want to answer this question as I already have somewhere else but the tone of the query sounded more like making fun of Allah's ayats here which is not very appropriate. Any ways, it doesn't seem very complicated but for those it is more than what it seems like please elaborate on what exactly is the problem. Is it not making men wait? Or is it why it should be the pregnancy that is the main idea behind it?  
 
Well my point of view is before complaining why men shouldn't wait, I should be first complaining to Allah why men don’t go through the discomfort of periods EVERY month??  
If Allah grants me this wish believe me waiting for few month before I get RE-married wouldn't be that big of a deal!  
 
Now for waiting so the pregnancy can't be hidden...It's not just about "hiding" pregnancy it's also about it becoming obvious, as the idat increases till the day baby is born! Why should it be like that? It probably has some physiological and psychological advantages we still don't know about. Plus I still would like to know a person who would like to marry a woman who's having a baby in a few months... even as a woman I wouldn't like that!  
 
To my brothers and sisters, who don't know even pregnancy test don't give signs until after a few weeks have passed and can be misleading sometimes! Plus what percentage of people has this facility and didn't Allah know millions will come and go without it? Indeed He did and so the most basic criteria are given. So questioning Allah's wisdom on this is futile.  
 
As a female, I find this wait very appropriate and only make me realize how Allah knows well the psyche of a woman. But still if it seems like something else please advice.  
 
jazakAllah  
 
UmeAimon  
Comments by: UmeAimon On: 10/24/2010

 
6.Sister Umeaimon.  
 
we are talking about the TRANSLATION and not the actual aya's. You said :  
 
"questioning Allahs wisdom on this is futile "  
 
we are not questioning Allah's wisdom, but the translation which is ignoring important points. Please keep in mind, a translation is not the aya from the creator. The translation is one's own understanding and interpretation of the aya and then served us as true.  
 
This translation is from sunni's who follow hadith. Their translation is to match up with the fairy tales from the Hadith. We want to look at the Quran itself and not the translation which is making the Quran a disabled hadith depending book .  
 
Maybe you find these translations to be correct, but some of us dont share your opinion , thats why we take the liberty to ponder over them.One should be allowed to question everything. If the creator wont give us the answers, who will ?  
 
Do they not think deeply in the Qur’an?" (4:82, 47:24)  
 
"This book has been sent down on you that they may think deeply on its verses." (38:29)  
 
Pondering in the translation and tafseer of the Qur’an is not equivalent to pondering in the Qur’an.But the translators are making statemens through their translation, we need to analyze them and then look at the Quran itself.  
 
Therefore, we will find out, if there is an iddah period for divorced women? are women men's property and they can go to them when they want as they want? Are we talking about menstruation and periods ?  
 
If the translation is correct, then there is a wisdom behind it and it will show up, if the translation is not correct, we will find out. For the time being, I'll admit that this translation makes me laugh and cry.  
 
As a woman, i dont accept being "unclean" and hated by God for a day or so,nor do i want to be a "thilt" in the hadithistic view. Hell no !!!!! we have to wait for the experts, Dr Qamar , Arungzaib and Moazzam to share their knowledge.  
 
ws
Comments by: Nargis On: 10/24/2010

 
7.Dear sister, I agree we need to ponder over Quran and I've known this for many years now. Like all I am learning too but here I only talked about idat thing. The rest of the translations pointed out do carry valid points. There are many that have already been cleared by Dr Qamar himself. The objections on idat seemed more like critisism for the sake of it. If people don't agree its perfectly fine but they need to give objective analysis of what they seem to find wrong any where in Quran. You have all the right not to agree :)  
 
jazakAllah
Comments by: UmeAimon On: 10/24/2010

 
8.Thank you sister :)  
 
The word Quru , periods, also means investigation ,explaination, to collect according to Lane. I know he is not so popular but its the only dictionary i find online.  
 
ق ر ا = Qaf-Ra-Alif = to recite/read, compilation, collection, reading, recitation, explanation, study, investigation.  
 
http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000030.pdf  
 
http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000031.pdf  
 
http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000032.pdf  
 
So if the previous ayats is talking about Qital,blood ,separation,,,then mayb this word could help us to understand if its about a time for explaination or investigation or just a wating period.  
 
What do all of you think ?  
 
ws
Comments by: Nargis On: 10/24/2010

 
9.Dear all: To find out the facts plz read the SURAH AL BAQARA from verse 135 to 252.Let us analyze the verses, in 2/135--150 after comparative analysis of QIBLA (deen) Allah Almighty selected the DEEN E HANIF (the QIBLA) for the Muslims, and ordered to establish the BAIT(idara).In verse 158 the HAJJ & UMRA of IDARA has been described, in verse 159--182 the the core points of the constitution are elaborated. In verse 183--187 the special training in special events has been described(SOAM). In verse 190-193 the main topic of QITAL is discussed. In verse 196--200 ,in war like situation the CALL FOR HAJJ has been announced (the world grand meeting) to debate the important burning issues of the time, see the verses 196--200. The main topic of QITAL is again discussed in verse 216--218. Now come to the topic under question, which is inbetween the main suject.Plz use the befitted meanings of the terminologies used( NIKAH,TALAQ,MAHEEZ,NISA,and IDDAT) according to the context of the subject,keeping in view the broad & vast subject of quran. At the end the main topic (QITAL) is again discussed from verse 244--252.
Comments by: moazzam On: 10/25/2010

 
10.Dear All,  
 
Just went through all the research-oriented investigation by participants above and can simply say that it has been constructive all along.  
Let me say that raising logical questions, as done by dear Bob, might be the best learning process for all times. The proof of our existence lies in our thinking. Quran’s tenets about thinking have been quoted by friends often on these pages. I may also mention here Descartes’ famous slogan: “Because I think, therefore I am.”  
I must also express my respect for Sis Ume Aimon’s “reservations” here and for her reflections on the significance of the ‘waiting period’ and the ‘women psychology’. Brother Moazzam very authentically emphasized the real focal point of the context which was “Qitaal”.  
 
Verse 2/222 (Al-Muhaiz), as far as I can remember has been fully explained by Dr. Sahib and is dealing with ‘bloodshed’ situation not ‘menstruation’, in keeping with the context. And ‘Nisaa’a’ here is again the same ‘weaker sections of society’ as we have already discussed at length. So Sis Nargis’ just apprehensions about “As a woman, i dont accept being "unclean" and hated by God for a day or so,” have been fully taken care of by God. Dr. QZ’s rationalistic translation of this Verse has brought back the dignity and the glory bestowed upon women by the Almighty – which was so viciously spoiled by Ahadith. Please find out full explanation by clicking open “Dr. Qamar Zaman” anywhere in the comments section. That will take you to the list of all the replies by Dr. QZ and since the comment in question is a recent one ( المحیض ) you may easily locate it.  
 
Verse 2/223 (The TILTH problem), has also been resolved. Sis Nargis said:  
“nor do i want to be a "thilt" in the hadithistic view”. No dear, rest assured. God only said : “The weaker sections of your Society are your ASSETS/CAPITAL (حرث – Harvest). So, interact with your people (فآتو حرثکم ) as you desire (انی شئتم ) and take precedence ( قدموا ) in doing good to them (انفسکم – your people) and abide by God’s laws in this respect (واتقوا اللہ ) not forgetting (for a moment) that you stand answerable to God about them (و اعلموا انکم ملاقوہ )……..”  
 
Verses 2/226-228 (Tallaq and the waiting period ) are under active investigation right now. Aastana would soon issue its verdict on respective translation and it would be displayed for comments and opinions. Incidentally, translation of Chapter Al-Baqarah has already started coming up on display. I hope in a few weeks we may automatically arrive at numbers 200 +. The word QURU as explained by dear Bob, acc. to Lane, was good study. I had sometime back picked up a meaning from one of the discussions in Dr. QZ’s company, and it was QURU---QURU’AAN ---THALAATHA QURU – نئی زندگی --- انتہائی نئی زندگی ---. However, we may wait a little bit more about that.  
 
Wish you all the best.  
 
Comments by: aurangzaib On: 10/26/2010

 
11.Salamun Alaykum UmeAimon  
 
Kindly do not see this as an attempt to ridicule the Quran. If that was the case we would not have been here to learn from you and the other esteemed people on this forum. In fact I have admired your intelligence on ourbeacon long before I found astaana.  
 
The reason for this question is the fact that in todays world the males still have the advantage over the female.  
 
Therfore I posed this question as I think we need to try to find the correct understanding of this "waiting period".  
 
Is it really a waiting period for the divorced or widowed female? Why only on the females? From what I have learnt from the esteemed doctor and the learnt Arungzaib, Sheikh Bashoep etc is the Quran explains for the collective. So if this is the case then all those tests for pregnancy will be conducted by the state. So pregnancy can be ascertained in a very short space of time. Another point, are these rules not supposed to be adhered to in the Islamic state. Thus if it is the Islamic state, then I can assume the Islamic states medical development will be of the top order so again no problem with determining pregnancy.  
 
Thus like sister Nargis has so eloquently stated, do we understand the verse correctly or do we translate through the colored lenses of hadith which unfortunately is our baggage that still influence our thoughts.? You know sister UmeAimon, I have been studying and reading the true message for about 8 years now, but so often I come accross translations of a verse which I previously routinely accepted, but reading a new translation like on the esteemd doctors blog, sweeps the floor from underneath me and forces me to realize that I am still being influenced by those hadithi glasses.  
 
I hope this makes sense.  
 
terammakassie  
Comments by: ardee On: 10/26/2010

 
12.Salam all,  
 
Frankly I'm stil trying to grasp the meaning of 2:222 and 223 as explained by Dr Qamar. This surah is combination of many issues revolving arround many social disorders! What I understood here is women being weak like orphans had always been subject of great unjust throughout the life of humanity. So why is it NOT an issue of Quran here? Why not considering women as something inferior/weak and sex objects, which is common in the era of ignorance including now a days, a huge social disordered worth discussing here?  
 
It's not just one subject being discussed here but series of queries being answered by Allah. Hence we find before many verse " they ask about ...."and then what Allah says about it.  
Its not just about qital!  
If one query being answered about alkhmar walmaeysar, other about orphans, other for who to marry, why not the next one about women?  
I don't understand why weaker class needs to be left alone once there is qital going on among them and let them resolve there issue on their own! SHould we leve LIYARI alone?  
Why couldn't it be some words translated wrongly and turned into "uncleanliness" when its just inconvenience and discomfort and its being told not to bother them too much while they are going through that period of discomfort?  
I know I would love to :).  
But since this is NOT A woman's fault AS it is a natural system and this is what she is made of AND this is what makes her as important as any other male AND through this system she carries on human race. Hence Allah is reminding not to forget that they the tilth, the bearers and guardians of their generations and to approach them keeping THAT in mind, in the very next verse. EVEN when the Quranic society has been established and there is supposedly NO weaker class left, this verse will and should be applied as women will remain with this role.  
I don't find any problem in relating to this role of women which is being acknowledged and with PRIDE and which the NO2 translators have made into something rather shameful draging reader once again back to same jahlea.  
 
As for idat and the word Quru, even if its investigation or to collect, what is it this collecion or proof of something, that is the question. And I have only understood again as three probable proofs for pregnancy which even to the most primitive humans is missing of periods and the wisdom behing using this word could be that yes if that much advanced some other proofs (three) should be collected before she can remarry. This is also so because the time for wait increases as the if the woman is found pregnant (see other related verses). AND thats why in the same verse they are being warned NOT to hide it (in order to decrease the iddat period and also confusing who the real father is, in case she is not interested to stay or wait anymore and which she can hide no matter how advance technology becomes) AND the same issue goes on that as in case she happens to be pregnant and is more inclined in hiding it, the father of the baby is naturally and rightfully more inclined to keep her than her. Why making it more complicated then it is and whats wrong with it? Determination of real father is a important social matter in our Deen and so even the orphans are advised to be named after their real fathers.  
 
jazakAllah  
Comments by: UmeAimon On: 10/29/2010

 
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