TOPIC: Islam >> Beliefs
Q.  
Dear Docter Qamer , Please give references of Quranic verses which guarantees individuals life after death? I request  
humbly for Docter Sahibs personal answer.  
 
By: pervez On: 9/8/2010

1.Sorry Mr Pervez,  
You won't find any verse in Quran or in any sculpture, which could "guarantee" life after death. From whom do you want the guarantee? From Quran or Prophet Muhammad or God. No one can give that guarantee to anyone.  
Life after death, I think, is the continuation of the goodness possessed by a person during his lifetime. It is the good words and good feelings and good remembrance by the living folks about that departed person, which keep him alive. Like Graham Bell, Edison, etc are remembered even today for their inventions for the humanity. Iqbal, Sir Syed, Gandhi, still lives in people's hearts.  
Shariq  
Comments by: SS On: 9/17/2010

 
2.Deal All  
I eagerly wait for the comments of Dr Qamar.  
I believe there is a life after death, but it is not like the one painted by Mullahs.  
It is, probably like the "happy home coming" ; greeted by the family ancestors; feasted as a big family function. There could be no punishments for the deeds done in this world. It would be the most comfortable, soothing, happy living for a long period before another hereafter,  
Bqayyum  
Comments by: bqayyum On: 9/17/2010

 
3.  
My Dear SS ,  
 
You have disappointed, rather hurt my feelings. If this is what you expect from aastana  
than what for you are here? and I would like to say to Docter QAMER and Aurangzeb if you think Mr ss  
is right, than I would like to say,  
 
"Wafa kaisee kahan ka ishq jub sir phorna thaira."  
 
"to phir ai sung dill taira he sungay astan(aastana.com) kyoon ho".  
 
ghalib  
 
 
Because,  
 
 
"KABI AIY HAKIKATAY MUNTAZIR NAZER AA LIBASAY MUJAZ MAIN"  
 
" K HAZAR SUJDAY TERAP RAHAI HAIN MAIRI JABEENAY NAIZ MAIN"  
Iqbal  
 
and  
 
"ILAHI PHIR MEZA KIA HAI YANHAN DUNIA MAI REHNAY KA"  
 
"HAYATAY JAWAIDAN MAIRI NA MRGAY NAGAHN MAIRI"  
 
Please forgive me specially Mr ss, if I wrote anything against your feeling.  
 
" Zubet lazim hai mager gham kiamet ka faraz"  
"ab k bhi na roay ga to mer jaiy ga"  
 
Regards  
 
"ab to jatay hain mai keday sai meer"  
"phir millain gay ger khoda laiya"
Comments by: pervez On: 9/19/2010

 
4.Mr Pervez  
No this innocent poetry does not hurt my feelings because they are as harmless and lifeless as the Old Testament and the Quranic verses and the old scriptures. Your original question “the guarantee for a life after death still stands”. According to my own thinking the religion (any religion) serves three main purposes  
1) Salvation (it is by far the most important )  
2) Lay down some injunctions and principles of morality  
3) Bases on these principles of morality, the follower of that religion try to lead his life and seeks salvation.  
For salvation some rituals are formulated and they are given a divine authority by the prophet of that religion. There is no religion without rituals.  
Now, what is happening with Islam; people (theologians) are trying to negate rituals from it and present it in the form of state running mechanism, like communism, socialism, capitalism, etc, etc. Dr. Qamar also did the same. He not only negated the Namaz, he also negated the Soam, Hajj, Zakaat, Jehad from Islam. I don’t know what is left of Islam after the surgery by Dr. Qamar.  
But Dr. Qamar and his adversaries failed to attract people towards their new religion (less rituals). G.A.Pervez could only gather less than 100 people and they are also now gone after his death. Just go and see the situation of his “Tulu-e-Islam”. People are fighting, in and out of court for the possession of assets of Tulu-e-Islam. The magazine “Tulu-e-Islam” is publishing political stories to increase its sale and circulation. Books by Pervez are dumped in stores and have no one to even take them free.  
Dr. Qamar could also attract only few people towards his new Islam. I think his followers are not even in double figure. You can just count on fingers the members of this forum. Few of them do not agree with the Islam of Dr. Qamar.  
I think if Dr. Qamar could preach his ideas under the banner of a new religion perhaps, he would have gained more prominence. (I am very sorry to be so blunt; I really don’t want to hurt feelings of anyone)  
Namaz, Soam, Hajj, Zakaat, Jehad were rituals of Islam right from the beginning and they will remain so for as long as there are Muslims in this world.  
There is another error of history, which prompts people to invent new forms of Islam. The first three Caliphs of Islam forbade the history of the early period of Islam from writing. They thought that Quran was enough and no other book was required by Muslims. In the process they stopped all intellectual, educational progress of Islamic society for almost two centuries. Today there is no authentic recorded history of the initialization of Islamic era. Persians started writing Islamic history almost after about two hundred years. The delima is that the theologians of today do not find the continuity from the Prophet Muhammad onwards. There is a dark period of almost two hundred years, for which they insert their own theories.  
Another point I want to make is that the concept of statehood, as states and countries exit today, is not given in Quran, but enthusiasts try to exaggerate the concepts and verses of Quran to make out a state out of it. For this they devised new wards and names. They said that Quran is not a religion, it is a Deen. (I was never convinced with this idea – deen is also another name for religion).  
Well Mr. Pervez more of it next time.  
Shariq  
Comments by: SS On: 9/19/2010

 
5.Dear Shariq,forgive my english mistakes,i would like to share with u at the topic under question.Suppose we consider the "life after death" as u explained here under.  
Life after death, I think, is the continuation of the goodness possessed by a person during his lifetime. It is the good words and good feelings and good remembrance by the living folks about that departed person, which keep him alive. Like Graham Bell, Edison, etc are remembered even today for their inventions for the humanity. Iqbal, Sir Syed, Gandhi, still lives in people's hearts.  
If some one wants this type of "life after death" enen then this requires good life in this world also.There could be no good life with out good here-in.The Quran provides best code of social conduct for dewelling better life as a whole in this world(life before death).If any body not believe in life after death,even then he desires peacefull,prosperous life style in his society.The Aastana team believe (after analytical study)in Quranic message,that this is the only divine book which really calls to SALVATION to all mankind.You pointed out our right direction of jurney toward the SALVATION as here under. what is happening with Islam; people (theologians) are trying to negate rituals from it and present it in the form of state running mechanism, like communism, socialism, capitalism, etc, etc. Dr. Qamar also did the same. He not only negated the Namaz, he also negated the Soam, Hajj, Zakaat, Jehad from Islam. I don’t know what is left of Islam after the surgery by Dr. Qamar.Reject the intrmingled rituals from the divine message,WHAT IS LEFT IN QURAN IS "THE TRUE ISLAM".  
My dear number does matters,but the jurney in right direction matters more. I pesonaly agree with your statment as under,but not acceptable ,because it will be the negation of our mission,and IT IS NEVER EVER POSSIBLE BY THIS AASTANA TEEM.Let me reproduce ur comments as under, I think if Dr. Qamar could preach his ideas under the banner of a new religion perhaps, he would have gained more prominence. (I am very sorry to be so blunt; I really don’t want to hurt feelings of anyone)  
Namaz, Soam, Hajj, Zakaat, Jehad were rituals of Islam right from the beginning and they will remain so for as long as there are Muslims in this world.Dear Shariq if u agree with my comments then plz join hands in AASTANA.COM,and increament by one.  
Comments by: moazzam On: 9/20/2010

 
6.  
Dear Shariq,  
It seems that you have excellent qualities of head, but forgive me if I say ,that you lack qualities of heart.  
I tried to express my feelings through poetry but you branded it lifeless???  
 
" DILL PHIR TWAFAY KOAY MALLAMET KO JAIY HAI - PINDAR KA SANAM KUDA WEERAN KIAY HOAY"  
 
There is also something known as emotional intelligence. A lot of research is going on in this field. I am sure  
that Divine authority can not ignore this very important aspect of human life. I am also certain that people must  
have asked Muhammad (pbuh) regarding life after death when he said,  
 
"..............BUL AHYA HOOM WALA KILA TUSHAROON"  
 
We are conscious of life in this world, may be of any type. But we do not have required consciousness to  
understand life after death. This is the assurance God has given.  
 
Look at me I am so much scared of extinction. Do not you think there must have been many people like me,  
desirous to live for ever. How is it possible that they would not have asked question regarding life after death?  
Than what was the reply given?  
 
I am not a scholar rather just a student of Quran, You know why, because Quran give us assurance for life  
after death under divine authority. Otherwise what is the fun in reading centuries old book whose meanings  
have also been corrupted.  
 
If you read human history ,fear of extinction and desire to live for ever has been the greatest concern. Egyption  
mummies and like wise mummies were found by archeologists at many places in the world. This vital impulse  
in human beings is a sign of their journey in the direction of becoming a new specie capable of existing without  
body. Man is a candidate for that. Evolution does not stop.  
 
BUT  
 
" CHAMAK SOORAJ MAI KIA BAKI RAHAY GEE AGER BAIZAR HO APNI KIRAN SAI"  
 
Quran gives assurance and guartees life after death. It is a book which no doubt deals with life before death,  
but does not ignore essential aspects of life after death. It aims at successful life here and after death too.Here  
I perfectly agree with interpretations of Allama Pervez concerning relevant Ayats.  
 
So for so good. But Mr Shariq please look in to your heart. You could not visualize pain and agony I was feeling  
with the idea of extinction. Tell me who"s feelings were lifeless yours or mine?  
 
"ZINDGI KUTRAY KI SIKHLATI HAI ISRARAY HAYAT -YAI KABI KUTRA KABI SHABNAM KABI GOHER HOA."  
 
We are all manifestations of formless energy in the universe and part of divine plan.  
 
Shariq, People like edison ,Eienstine etc live in the hearts of people today but also in the World we are not  
conscious of.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Comments by: pervez On: 9/22/2010

 
7.Dear friends,  
 
I am sorry to interfere. Brother Shariq is giving us a totally corrupted picture of our history. Excerpts from brother Shariq, dated Sept.19 :  
 
“”There is another error of history, which prompts people to invent new forms of Islam. The first three Caliphs of Islam forbade the history of the early period of Islam from writing. They thought that Quran was enough and no other book was required by Muslims. In the process they stopped all intellectual, educational progress of Islamic society for almost two centuries. Today there is no authentic recorded history of the initialization of Islamic era. Persians started writing Islamic history almost after about two hundred years. The delima is that the theologians of today do not find the continuity from the Prophet Muhammad onwards. There is a dark period of almost two hundred years, for which they insert their own theories.””  
 
Almost 90% of the above statement proves wrong. It is rather a careless subjective reflection by our Brother. See the salient features of his statement and relative answers herebelow number-wise, just in order to straighten the record :-  
 
Salient features of the Excerpt :-  
 
1) “”The first three Caliphs of Islam forbade the history of the early period of Islam from writing;”” WRONG!  
 
Correction: Did they forbid the HISTORY or just AHADITH? They forbade only Ahadith:  
a) Rasulallah ordered not to write from me anything except Quran.  
Whatever Ahadith Companions had written on their own, they burnt those under orders of Rasulallah.  
(Tadween-e-Hadith by Manazar Ahsan Gilani, page 249)  
b) Hadhrat Abu Bakr burnt his collection of Ahadith and ordered people not to  
Quote any more Ahadith.  
(Tazkarat al-Haffaaz, Zohbi, Tadween Hadith – above – page 321)  
c) Hadhrat Umar decided after one-month long deliberation that Ahadith must  
Not be collected and edited. He called for peoples’ collection of Ahadith under  
Oath, and burnt all of them and issued decree to other cities that whatever Ahadith maybe found with anyone, he may destroy them.  
(Tabqaat-e-Ibn-e-Saad, Vol.5, page 141 – Tadween-e-Hadith, P.399).  
 
 
2) “” In the process they stopped all intellectual, educational progress of Islamic society for almost two centuries;  
Today there is no authentic recorded history of the initialization of Islamic era; “”  
WRONG!  
 
Correction: How could they stop “progress” for two centuries? They ruled only upto 40 AH. Say up to 45 AH including Hadhrat Ali.  
See how much “intellectual, educational” and historical work was done BEFORE and AROUND 200 AH :  
 
Here are names of many (not all) writers of history, seerat, Maghazi and Ahadith with the years of their death  
 
Urwah bin Zubair (92 AH), Abaan bin Othman bin Affaan (105AH), Sha’abi (109 AH), Wahab bin Mambah (114 AH), Aasim bin Umar bin Qatadah (121 AH), Sharjeel bin Saad (123 AH), Ibn-e-Shahab Zohri (124 AH), Yaqub bin Atbah Thaqafi (128 AH), Abdallah bin Abi Bakr bin Hazam (125 AH), Moosa bin Aqabah (141 AH), Hasham bin Urwah bin All Zubair (146 AH), Mohammad bin As-Saaib Al-Kalabi (146 AH), Mohammad bin Ishaq Yasaar (150 AH), Moammar bin Rashid (152 AH), Abd al-Rahman bin Abd al-Aziz (162 AH), Mohammad bin Saleh Al-Madani (170 AH), Abdallah bin Ja’afar Makhzoomi (170 AH), Abd al-Malak bin Mohammad Ansaari (176 AH), Ziyaad bin Abdallah Al-Bakaai (173 AH), Salamah bin Al-Fadhal (191 AH), Yahya bin Saeed bin Abaan (194 AH), Waleed bin Muslim Al-Qarshi (195 AH), Yunus bin Bakeer (199 AH), Mohammad bin Umar Al-Waqidi (207 AH), Yaqub bin Ibrahim Zohri (208 AH), etc., etc.,  
 
3) “” Persians started writing Islamic history almost after about two hundred years;  
There is a dark period of almost two hundred years;”” WRONG!  
 
CORRECTION:  
No actual dark period. We can only concede that most of those writers’ books became extinct and only their references are available in the later period books.  
Persians only transformed the smaller writings and collections into big consolidated editions. Of course, they updated them according to their time periods.  
 
So far about History.  
 
The word SALVATION used by brother Shariq is a borrowed term from Christianity. I think there is no SALVATION theory in Quran. It is EVOLUTION OF SELF AND ACHIEVEMENT through character as propagated by Quran.  
 
He compares RITUALS with STATE MECHANISM. Both are his misconceptions.  
 
What have RITUALS achieved so far? Except slavery for Muslims! Sane people can no longer be fooled by RITUALS and these must be discarded altogether.  
 
Quran’s values and principles are meant to build a high moral character. It is the people of character that are needed to advance and progress in all spheres of life, be it family, or economy, or education and science, or leadership and politics. The people of high character can automatically create, and take care of, a Benevolent STATE MECHANISM.  
 
Thank you. I hope Brother Shariq doesn’t start Sardar Ji Jokes once again.  
 
Comments by: aurangzaib On: 9/22/2010

 
8.Mr. Pervez  
I respect your wish to live for ever.  
 
There is an association of people in USA. They believe that death is also a disease and can be cured. They further believe that people have a very strong conception that death is the ultimate end of everything. This impulse stops the growth of hormones after reaching a certain age and thus the aging process overtakes the biological systems, which ends in death. The advancement in scientific discoveries are experimenting the rebirth of new cells and hormones so that the aging process could be controlled.  
We are not very far from such developments when man will have full control over aging process and the life and death.  
So life will not be left as dependent on religion as it is today. God could not fulfill your desire to live forever; but man will.  
Don’t worry and keep writing the most captivating and fascinating poetry in your comments.  
 
Dear Aurangzeb Bhai  
 
I am really impressed by your knowledge of history. I cannot challenge it. But I respectfully submit that the history of Islam also include the stories of all rulers of Islam. …. Could we call Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) the first ruler of Islam?  
 
As you are the only OSPA (one star policemen of aastana.com), I am really scared of you. Nowadays I move about very cautiously, lest you might appear from nowhere and accuse me of corrupting history.  
 
Shariq  
Comments by: SS On: 9/22/2010

 
9.Dear Aurangzeb, shariq Moazzem and Dear Docter Qamer,  
 
Regards, The discussion was regarding life after death. That was my concern.  
 
 
 
Essentially, there are two points of view regarding dilemma of death. First says we are physical bodies that  
are born and we go on to live for a while and than ultimately we deteriorate and die. This perspective is terrifying.  
The second point of view is that we are eternal ,infinite soul in a temporary expression of flesh.Only our physical  
body dies. Our physical body has emanated from the universal mind(Allah). Allah is formless pure energy of love  
beauty, kindness and creativity. It can not die, since there is no form involved therefore no death, no boundaries  
no deterioration, no flesh, no possibility of it wasting away.We can never ever be separated from God. Some  
times, I feel God is the mind through which we think and exist.You believe in God or you do not. You are  
always connected with him. However, it is your choice to turn towards him are be away from him. The  
explanation of wahi given by Doctor Qamer reinforces this idea. Allah (cosmic intelligence) guides those  
who chooses to b guided. Such are the people who are deputed by cosmic intelligence to guide and help  
those who lack behind. This is pure love of life giving formless energy in the universe. Quran can not ignore  
life after death. The philosophy of this book is based on the fact that human being is,  
 
" KHAKI HAI MAGER KHAK SAI RUKHTA NANHE PAIWAND."  
 
"QANAAT NA KER ALIMAY RANGO BOO PER CHAMAN AOR BE ASHYAN AOR BE HAIN."  
Comments by: pervez On: 9/22/2010

 
10.Brother Shariq,  
 
"" But I respectfully submit that the history of Islam also include the stories of all rulers of Islam. …. Could we call Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) the first ruler of Islam? ""  
 
Is that a question or a comment? If comment, don't see what it means. If question, does a question like that arises? Who doesn't know the answer?  
 
I very much wish you stop passing personal remarks as it may spoil the environment here. I am sure you wish to stay with us and continue discussions. The mundane dictum is "think before you speak (write)" anyway.  
 
Dear brother Pervez,  
 
I go along with the second point of view as explained by you. Yes, the perspective of the first thesis is terrifying; and it generates a chain of unanswered questions.  
 
Why continued chain of Divine guidance ever since the species developed into civilized societies?  
Why are we born only to perish for ever?  
Why should we strive to be good if there is no reward in the form of eternal life after death?  
Why powerful men continue exploiting the weaker ones without punishment?  
Matter does not disappear but remains existent ?  
Why should not we exist after death as we are made of matter?  
 
Going into the realm of Quantum Physics, even if we are just energy, still we should retain our existence?  
Why the values, ethics, principles, if we just have to perish after this life?  
Do we have just physical bodies?  
Then what is it inside us that feels and thinks and has honour, dignity, feelings of chastity, disappointment etc.?  
 
There are so many other questions which can only be answered if the theory of Life After Death is construed as valid.  
 
God bless you.  
Comments by: aurangzaib On: 9/22/2010

 
11.Dear brothers,  
Great, a wonderful discussion. I AGREE WITH BROTHER PERVEZ AND AURANGZEB.
Comments by: momin On: 9/25/2010

 
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