TOPIC: Islam >> Beliefs
Q.Is "wahy" part of "sunnat Allah"? If so, how does it works in relation to the laws of nature? Can it be proven?  
I have another question too (answer one,get one free)please explain 2:78, what it means& whts with the slaves, free, women, etc?  
By: Nargis On: 11/10/2010

1.And i dont understand the logic, why would Rasul recieve wahy, but other people had to write it down?  
 
Comments by: Nargis On: 11/10/2010

 
2.A bold and excellent question. I will learn too. Nargis, allow me to add to your question if wahi is Sunnah  
why should it discontinue? why khatmay naboot, why not now?  
 
Your second question, "(answer one,get one free)"  
 
NO WINTER SALE YET
Comments by: momin On: 11/10/2010

 
3.  
Yes, Wahi is Sunna of Allah. We find Prophets in various societies at different times who contributed  
positively in the evolution of mankind from jungle life to developed civilization. This is a proof, that  
it is a natural law. The institution of prophet hood has matured, hence no more required therefore it  
is stopped. Hope your question is answered.
Comments by: pervez On: 11/10/2010

 
4.:):) Its winter here now and im brr coooold brrr  
 
We cant prove wahy to be a part of the law,can we? Ok the Quran may be its own proof because of its statements, "universal" commands and content, but how do we know its possible to have "direct" contact with God? is it voices,is it just a thought, is it pictures, we dont know how this wahy appear do we?  
 
the message in the Quran is revolutionary and beneficial for the humanity, still its not implemented. Why are the "dark" forces stronger than the "light" itself? Why wont it work? So whats the proof of wahy being implemented to transform the societies to developed civilization, the west is developed without the help of the Quran,no? and we still have "jungle life" where these wahy's originally came- :-O  
 
( why didnt the Prophet write it down himself (as its claimed by our clergy)?)  
 
Momin, you better start this winter sale coz i need the answer juldi juldi.
Comments by: Nargis On: 11/10/2010

 
5.Dear All, part of the question w.r.t WAHI is covered under another question. Please find the link below.....  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?MID=1&SID=10&QID=9  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.
Comments by: Mubashir Syed On: 11/11/2010

 
6.To know the NATURE vs WAHY we must know the WAHY it self ,in my opinions this is nothing more than the concieving of ideas in a thinkers mind while observing the laws of nature. If the concieved idea,could be implemented for the betterment of mankind , it falls in the category of wahi from ALLAH (the prophethood is also based at this principle which deals in the SOCIOLOGY).The prophets has some especial qualities as written in verse 2/129( mind the defference between the NABI and RASOOL).If the concieved idea while observing the laws of nature,is against the humanity by any aspect then it is WAHY from SHAITAN, see the verses 22/52,41/36,20/120,18/63,2/36,23/95.Als see the quranic verses where the sentences YUREED ASHAITAN,ASHAITAN O YAAMUROKUM comes for example in verses4/60,5/98,2/268.This process of wahy is still going on and will be continued due to SUNNATULLAH . The quranic terminologies ELHAM,and ALQAA are also from the category of wahy,please need not to confused for TANZEEL AL KITAB ,it would be better to be discussed later.For more clarity of my views i woulkd like to refer you at the Dr.Qamars post as given under "There are different levels of consciousness. I am writing with my clear mind it is the conscious level. If i am hit and I lose my consciousness I become unconscious. I recall some incidences consciously it is memory. But if I respond reflexly to a similar event wich has happened in my life before without recalling my memory , it is from my subconcious level.  
 
It has three stages.  
1. You are not sleeping and doing things without recalling your memory it is areflex action.  
2. You are sleeping and you see yourself doing things it is dream  
3. You are neither sleeping nor doing things reflexly but you are interpreting your experiences, knowledge, observations and actions of  
your past and of others and you are visualising the laws of nature then you are a genius and you can predict the fate of a nation. You can warn a nation against the disaster they are heading to or you can predict their bright and prosperous future.  
This faculty to learn from the nature is, when nature comes so close to a human being that all hidden secrets start opening up.The person and nature becomes like two bows together (Sura 53 Verse 9).  
 
At this stage Nature starts revealing himself and THIS IS WAHI." YES IT DOES WORK IN RELATION TO THE LAWS OF NATURE.  
Comments by: moazzam On: 11/11/2010

 
7.so wahy reveals itself through observations in nature/world/ humanbeings? But then there is no direct word from God? It means all the prophet had the same observations because "God never change his commands"...  
 
But why the need for someone else to write it down,if this prophet is a genious,then he would learn how to read and write. where did this idea come from in the first place? 80:15-16 ? How can these observations be so "PERFECT", and PROTECTED aswell? Lets Say A man called Mohammed wrote a book called Quran based on his own observations, and they are perfect, but how can he take the responsibility to protect it- and it damn works too? How did he know its impossible to change the Quran when Bible and Torah is gone went gone long time ago? We know Saul Paul(Jewish murderer of christians) decided to write the Bible,so the original work was gone. How did S Mohammed know what was written in there(or in Torah)? If he didnt, how can the Quran say it contains the same message(if its his own obersvations)?  
 
confusing:-O  
 
Sometimes i get angry at sectists,,,i want to beat them up,hope this is not wahy from shaitan, but they make me really angry.  
 
need time to understand,ponder and digest this.  
 
Comments by: Nargis On: 11/11/2010

 
8.  
Dear all,  
At least I can not disagree with such a logical concept of "Wahi" presented by Mr. Muazzem. Allama Niaz  
Fateh Puri also believed in the same concept. Dear Muazzem, you said,  
 
'This faculty to learn from the nature is, when nature comes so close to a human being that all hidden secrets  
start opening up.The person and nature becomes like two bows together (Sura 53 Verse 9)."  
 
My question to you is, can you replace the word "NATURE" in your above sentence with "ALLAH"  
 
It will be than read as,  
 
This faculty to learn from the ALLAH is, when ALLAH comes so close to a human being that all hidden secrets start  
opening up.The person and ALLAH, becomes like two bows together (Sura 53 Verse 9).  
 
IF NO THAN WHY?
Comments by: pervez On: 11/11/2010

 
9.  
Once again sister Nargis has raised logical and brilliant questions. Sister you are really a free thinker, independent  
of all prejudices. Your questions are mine too. Let us see more answers, than I will give my views. I like those  
going against the tide. They are the one who open new avenues, bold , courageous and intelligent.  
 
Regards  
 
Dear Moazzem,  
 
Your answer is convincing. But it raises new questions. Hope you will satisfy.
Comments by: momin On: 11/11/2010

 
10.Dear all please read my this post to become more clear about your queries regarding AL KITAB, which i already reproduced "According to SUNNATULLAH rasool (imam) in their nation,in their language will be continued till the last day. As i wrote in my previous post about ALKITAB that,we should consider the names of personalities and places (written in quran ) as the ISME TAUSIFI(attribute),also the stories written in quran ,in a sense that, "these are the divine examples set down for the guidance of mankind beyond time and space, same as the GA Pervez considered the QISSA E ADAM O IBLEES .Keeping the following references in view ,i think this book is beyond time and space,the similes would be implemented in the present situation of that era,for example today's FIRAON,today's MUSA,today's haroot maroot could be determined by their attributes(wasf). FOR ELABORATION OF VERSES OF QURAN THERE IS NO NEED OF SHAN E NAZOOL. The IMAM E WAQT(rasool) will consult the quran and with the resembling examples will solve the present issues.Try to find out AAJ KA ZULQARNAIN,AAJ KA FIRAON,AAJ KA MUSAand AJJ KI BANI ISRAIL. Let me reproduce the previous post here under 1:- kindly go to the verse 2/2,2/44,2/53,2,87,2/113 (there are other 232 verses of Quran) where you will find the word ALKITAB (the book).after full concentration my inference regarding matter under question is ,that, same ALKITAB have been given to every rasool,which was revealed ALA QALB E MOHAMMAD(THE HKATIM ANNABIEEN).The name of rusul and all charecters (yahood,nasara,bani israil,yajooj majooj,haroot maroot)should be taken as the ATTRIBUTES,not as a proper noun. The names like maryam,mohammad,ibrahim,mosa,yahya,noha,saleh etc should be taken as an ISM E TAOSIFI. 2:- Go to the verse 15/9, the ZIKR,and QURAN is the same ALKITAB. See to the verse 7/145,7/150,7/154, 85/22,54/13 here we find the word LOH,this also means the ALKITAB/SUHOF.Now you cosolidate these all verses with respect to their context we conclude the protectection of ALKITAB. The actual thing is the mentality of the religious leaders in each era ,that they always try to devastate the divine message as per their wish, to get temporary benifits from the masses,and this process is still going on.Even the people left the alkitab behind them, plz see the verse"WAQALARRASOOLO YA RABBI INNA QAOMA ATTAKHAZOO HAZAL QURANA MAHJOORA.  
3 :-The verse 2/129 describes the duties assigned to rasool,it means any body who is performing the same ,falls in the categorg of rasool(imam). RASOOL / IMAM will remain in the societies till the dooms day.Go through 2/129,3/164,10/74,16/36,16/89,17/15,28/59,40/34,also the comments of opponents (non- believers)are the evidence ,that the rasools are not predestined supper humen see verse 17/94,25/41.The story of prophit Ibraheem verse 2/124, and the whole story of prophit musa along with prophit Haroon ,also vers7/124 ,20/13 shows the testing and selection criteria as a rasool/nabi(but there is difference between nabi & rasool)  
Date : 9/12/2010 >>View Detail  
 
Comments by: moazzam On: 11/11/2010

 
11.Dear Pervez, I agree with Moazzam, but new questions are being stimulated  
 
 
Imagine the “Clergy Gang “ who wrote the Hadith and History. They have covered every aspect in Syedana Mohammed’s Life. They wrote a personal "quote book" (Hadith’s), biography (Ibne Hischam), and "actions"(History by Tabari) of The Prophet. They are all well thought out and carefully written down.  
 
Why has no other prophet his own Hadith, biography and history book? Because the Changed Torah and Bible contains everything needed about the previous Prophets. Their sayings, actions and thoughts are lied about in the Bible and Torah, so there is no need for additional books .  
 
They could have done the same with S Mohammed, but they didn’t, or should we say, they couldn’t ? I don’t think they never thought about it, or they never tried. they must have, but without success. They could have just changed words like “Ghulam” to “Ibn/Tafl” regarding S Zakarya or S Eesa,, They could change the word “aaba” to “aba” and “BsmAllah” to “BaismAllah” (with the missing hamzah). They could have added the word “Eat” in front of “Forbidden for you is .....” (in 5:3 regarding halaal eating), They could have changed proper nouns into nouns etc... but they didn’t.  
 
Why write additional books ? what stopped them in changing the Quran the same way they changed Tora Bible ?  
 
These professionals Mafia organizations have known what it takes to mislead, and they have done a fantastic job, it lasted for many centuries. They have dealt with the psychological necessities of the people, and found out that the old traditions can be maintained through different and new names. They knew that the human mind is the subject of mass hypnosis, so they wrote myths built-in the minds of those who don’t know much. These myths were familiar with their ancient culture in the form of religion, that’s why it worked.  
 
They have known that weak people look up to stronger people or people who have achieved something they adored and respected. That’s something everyone want to achieve but cant because of their weaknesses or lack of knowledge. The achievement is respected because its difficult, or nearly impossible. So the Achiever is regarded as an “Hero” representing everyone in the community. He is the “Hope” and everything all of us want to be. Meticulous, bright, dazzling, benevolent & loved by God.  
 
Everything is carefully calculated and recorded. Why and how? Well, the geniuses covered every portion of the “Play”. Yes it is a Theatre for the masses. It is said that the theater had its distinguishing identity for about 2500 years ago (The Essential Theatre, Oscar G. Brockett and Robert J. Ball, 2011) and Theatre have affected and changed the identity of the society and individuals ever since (History of Drama European and Theatre, Erika Fischer-Lichte) the theater was based on legends and folk tales, and from there it developed to become theater. Theatre and Film has a tremendous effect on people because it characterizes people through the "heroes." Man re know himself through the actor while the actor is shown in a better and more developed form. This is called mass hypnosis. But Theatre is nothing without its audience.  
 
Our play writers covers the following aspects: the Prophet's private life is lied and told about, so people can feel related to the “desires and feelings” of God’s chosen one. They will feel connected and attached because their own (human) feelings are reflected through the Prophet . A unity occurs which lead to an urge to worship this man. In fact, their own dreams and feelings are being worshipped. the “unconscious “ is hypnotizing the conscious . Our play writers got their audience-  
 
This is a well known tactic used by “Sheateens”, religious leaders ,because its working in the same manner. I believe this tactic was used by our Tabari's Bukhari's and ibne Hicham's. They simply wrote a play, created their own characters and wrote a story claimed to be “Quranic”.  
 
These brilliant Ibleesian Sheateens intended to thoroughly change the words of the Quran, but failed somehow- Why  
 
That times Mohammed gave us a book which stated, its impossible to change its words. The worst Iblees's couldnt do it, the statement is proven to be true. How?  
 
Could this just be an "observing" of a Man, or men with some special qualities (we dont have) ? Why is such observations "ended" with the last Prophet? How did he know , no more wahy/observation through the nature, or laws of nature, will come?  
 
Why cant the Quran be a direct message to the Prophet ?Again, strange that everyone living in the "middle east" had the same observation, even though they didnt live at the same time. . . . .
Comments by: Nargis On: 11/11/2010

 
12.Before someone deals with your very relevant questions, here is what I found regarding Allah from , "The servant of the  
light" people/group for consideration and scrutiny,  
 
 
 
 
These following verses describe the emotional and conscious Allah (who is not God) (please note these are the traditional translations of the Qur’an, meaning they are only a shadow of there full express, and will be replaced as the correct translation have been completed):  
 
The One is Allah (who is not God), there is No deity besides No God, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. the One is the Instant and Sustaining Source of all Mercy and Kindness.  
 
The One is Allah (who is not God), there is No deity besides No God, the sovereign, the Impeccably pure, the perfection of peace and the source of all peace, the Bestower of Confident Conviction, the overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the All Powerful, Exalted is Allah (who is not God) above whatever they associate with the One.  
 
The One is Allah (who is not God), the Supreme Creator, the Shaper out of Nothing, the Fashioner, to Whom belong the most beautiful attributes of perfection. All things in the heavens and the earth constantly work to manifest the One’s Grandeur and to fulfil the One’s Plan. And the One is Almighty, the Wise. (Surah 59-22 to 24)  
 
(The meaning of the words the One: Allah (who is not God), the One being exchanged for he, she, him, her as this gives both gender and personifies Allah (who is not God).)  
 
This following verse describes the physical conceptualisation of Allah (who is not God) as far as we can comprehend within this realm of existence:  
 
24:35 Allah (who is not God) is the Energy of the heavens and the earth. The example of the One’s Energy is that of a lamp that is placed inside a niche enclosed in glass that shines like a radiant star. This lamp is kindled from a blessed tree - olive - neither of the East nor of the West. Allah (who is not God)'s Energy issues forth in all directions. The oil glows by itself even though no fire has touched it. Energy upon Energy. Allah (who is not God) guides to the One’s Light anyone who seeks guidance. And Allah (who is not God) sets forth allegories for mankind. And Allah (who is not God) does know all things.  
 
The problem is the ignorant look externally for what exists internally; there is no God, no outside force to call upon. What you seek is to be released, expanded, cultivated, nurtured from within yourself.  
 
A God is an outside force.  
 
Allah (who is not God) is a force emanating our essence out from within us, this is the difference between God and Allah (who is not God), they are in opposition, one emanates all reality, while the other concept simply controls all reality.  
 
So in actuality the creator of all cannot be a personification, (as it is conscious energy, upon energy, upon energy) blind faith is ignorance and laziness in truth, (man has been created for knowledge), religion is a creation conceived by greedy men for the control of the human mind and body, religion removes rational thought, free will and understanding, again a direct opposite of the truth. Religions establish parasitic hierarchies, to plunder the poor, abuse the venerable and exploit the weak, almost without exception, a representative of religion been the most usurious occupation ever conceived.  
 
The religious hierarchy take all you can give, and in return; they will take all you could attain, they live from the premeditated theft of the fruits of the labour of others; and in return for your money and your sovereignty, they blind you to the truth, they starve you of knowledge, they frighten you with falsifications, and they hold you in ignorance.  
 
O you who have believed, indeed the scholars and the monks devour the wealth of people unjustly and avert them from the way of Allah. And those who hoard gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah (who is not God) - give them tidings of a painful punishment. (Surah 9 - 34)  
 
The Qur’an makes it plain, all the knowledge required to establish the correct, concepts and principles, is held within the Qur’an, it is a complete book, but the privileged, the powerful have perverted the message of Islam, to allow them to continue to exploit and abuse the mass population. They focus the people away from the understanding of the Qur’an, telling them they are not capable of understanding such a deep book, only the scholar can interpret and decipher the message. They encourage the people to read the Qur’an in Arabic, an alien language to most, and advise them to take the interpretation of a favoured scholar so removing the ability to fully understand the concepts and guidance it represents, focusing them on the noise as an alternative to the understanding, confusing the truth with dogma, ritual and superstition. The key to understanding Islam through all the confusion generated by the privileged is the comprehension of the first part of the Shahada, understand this completely then you will be more able to easily understand the Qur‘an and so your function and purpose.  
 
To worship is without point, Rumi said, “You worship what you fear. So watch where you place your fears.” (To seek the truth and be submissive to it, is part of the purpose), to call upon a personified God would be futile as the attributes of the creating conscious energy are within everyone always.  
 
‘There is No God, there is only God’. Many state this as true, a statement without point or purpose, lacking truth and understanding, as I have explained God shares only one aspect with the energy.  
 
If we examine the Arabic concept, ‘Allah’, this has to be considered with script writing technique as well as grammar. But more importantly script writing technique. To the best of our knowledge there is not lot of work done in the past on writing technique. A surprise really.  
The Arabic word اللَّهِ is not one word. It actually consist of three words in this order. First word is الذي =Allathee means "who is". This in writing is well know to be only written as ال or Al but this Al does not mean "the". It is followed by لا , Laa, meaning "not" and finally الهَ , illah, meaning the pagan Arab God or God in general. Hence the whole phrase would translated as "who is not god".  
 
Le = no/denial/is not: There is No.  
 
ila = except/nothing but.  
 
No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God)  
 
Allah (who is not God) is the perfect anti-name, it is neither a name, nor, not a name, it describes what is not in existence, a God, and what is in existence, not a God, as no name can be given to the emanating reality; not God; is the best we can achieve.  
 
‘Allah is really not a word. It is combination of words, or in English part of a sentence. The issue is how Arabic script was written. Common belief is that Arabic script is written as cursive.  
 
The English language is Cursive, however, in English word separation is indicated by space. In contrast Arabic script can join words, but uses certain signs to indicate word separation. These are called Jezm and Sukoon:  
 
Gezm is used to indicated declinable words attached to other words.  
 
Sukoon indicates a non Mutherick consonant in a non-declinable word.  
 
Words can be joined together as well. This joining is indicated by Teshdeed. This is the case with Allah.’ Dr Badar Kanwar (pease read 'A Careful Linguistic Analysis of the Term Allah.' )  
 
 
Not God tells us to understand attributes and express these, Allah (who is not God) is: the Supreme Existence which is out of sight; whose extremely exalted position leaves the human intellect perplexed; whose sovereignty reigns supreme in the universe and to whom subservience is due by all components of the Ones creation, Allah (who is not God) is beyond human perception - “No vision can grasp the One”, yet the One is apparent in all things.  
 
No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God).  
 
This statement has both point and understanding, there is No God, no personifications, no idols, no living human God ever, there is only Allah (Not God), the consciousness, layered as multi infinite nesting dimensions, multi-dimensional energy, in truth absolutely nothing else exists, only Allah.  
 
If you consider the predominant structured phrase, of the English translation of the Shaharda, using the word ignorance in exchange for the word God, this is how it reads:  
 
No ignorance but the ignorance.  
 
There is one ignorance that is the ignorance. (This sentence does not conform to the Arabic with the use of ‘that is’, it being directly opposite to the Arabic preposition - except, but, no, denial, there is no.)  
 
There is no ignorance. Except the ignorance.  
 
Now using the correct translation with the word God exchanged:  
 
No ignorance but who is not ignorance.  
 
There is no ignorance. Except who is not ignorance.  
 
There is no ignorance. But who is not ignorance.  
 
No ignorance. Except for who is not ignorance.  
 
They have certainly disbelieved who say, “Allah (who is not God) is the third of three, and there is no god except one God.” And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. (Surah 5 - 73)  
 
The Qur’an tells us plainly, the prevailing doctrines of the holy trinity and the belief that all the religions fundamentally following a single God, the same god, are completely false. For how can Allah (who is not God) be their God when the concept of Allah (who is not God) is totally alien to that of a God, the underlying understanding of Islam is there is no God. The verse expresses both concepts of firstly the trinity and then the concept that there is a single God we all worship and give blind faith to, it then without doubt tells you to desist from this misconception and understand the foundation of Islam, No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God).  
 
They take their doctors of law and their monks for Lords besides Allah (who is not God), and (also) the Messiah, son of Mary. And they were enjoined that they should serve one God only - there is NO God only Allah (who is not God). Exalted is the One above whatever they associate with the One. (Surah 9, 31)  
 
Again the Qur’an makes it clear there is no God, and tells the ignorant that it is a Shirk to call Allah (who is not God) God.  
 
And do not invoke with Allah (who is not God) another authority. There is no authority except Allah (who is not God). Everything is mortal except Allah (who is not God). the One is the judgement, and to the One you will be returned. (Surah 28, 88)  
 
To worship is of little value, and to have faith in God as described previously is indolent ignorance, only complete submission to the will of supreme existence is required, ignore the will of existence at your own peril. Only in one aspect does the concept of God make reference to the energy of the infinite, that of been the creator, however to equate the understanding of God with the true understanding of Allah (who is not God) is as foolish as to state, a bicycle and a plane are indistinguishable, simply because they both transport people.  
 
We must submit to the will of the creator or we will not be in unity, exist without religion, without worship, without God, without dogma, without experts, without arrogance, without blind faith, without been wilfully ignorant, without greed, without indoctrination, without conditioning, without usury, simply be in servitude to unity, this is your purpose.  
 
‘Lá iláhá’ can be interpreted as negative as a certainty to any concept or idea presented as representing Allah (who is not God), while in fact simply transforming the truth of Allah (who is not God) into an idol, a personification or a misperception.  
 
It is a disservice to clarity of understanding to propagate this belief in God, by doing so it transforms the word Allah (who is not God) into the concept of God, you could never do the opposite, so the purpose and logic of expressing the first part of the Shahada is made clear.  
 
Understand your purpose, understand your actions, understand your opportunities, understand your practices, do nothing blindly, essentially understand why, this is all part of realising your potential. Understand this, the mind works just as a muscle works, if you use a muscle it grows ever stronger, if you never use your muscle it will wither and grow weak, if you use your mind Allah (who is not God) will increase its power, if you don’t it will wither, you were made for knowledge, expand your mind to enlightenment.  
 
17:46 It is Allah’s (who is not God‘s) Law that people who do not use their faculties, lose them. Their minds, hearts, and ears act impermeable when you mention your Lord alone in the Qur’an. And, they turn their backs in disgust. (They wish to hear about other deities and false ‘authorities’.)  
 
The final part of the Shahada is, ‘and Muhammad is the Rasul of Allah.’, it is articulated that for the first 12 years of Muhammad’s serving as an envoy of Allah (who is not God), he only expressed the Shahada; he would have only ever expressed the first part, the second part is an addition, Muhammad would never have said, ’and I am the Rasul of Allah (who is not God). Yet this is the original and complete Shahada, being, ‘No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God).’  
 
I am not denying the fact Muhammad is the Rasul of Allah (who is not God), simply it is a contrived addition to the Shahada, I also see no real problem with this addition been tagged onto the end of the original Shahada, but it can not be used to support the concept of Hadith, sovereign worship, idolatry, or  
 
We are guided to see all messengers of Allah (who is not God) as equal.  
 
The concept of the Shahada as an oath of allegiance, again a sovereign concept, the old Persian Kings were wise in their manipulation of the ignorant Christianised Muslims; unless you swear in front of witnesses to give sovereignty to Muhammad through the Shahada, you can not be a Muslim, and so they subjugate the people and hold them in a re-established monarchy, allowing taxation, and exploitation to be re-established.  
 
A Muslim is not created through the utterance of a sentence, as is evident from the character of the world today.  
 
A Muslim is defined purely through action, not false oaths, you must live as a Muslim, to be a Muslim, to state allegiance, while living in confusion and in opposition to Islam, would be in direct opposition to that ambition.  
 
(In your mind) Do not create a (concept of) God in addition to Allah. (Do not delude yourself) Otherwise, (due to this act of equating God to Allah) you will be denied, rejected and you will be left alone (helpless). (Surah 17 : 22)  
 
Comments by: momin On: 11/11/2010

 
13.  
This is amazing you have written brother Momin.  
 
"The final part of the Shahada is, ‘and Muhammad is the Rasul of Allah.’, it is articulated that for the first 12 years of Muhammad’s serving as an envoy of Allah (who is not God), he only expressed the Shahada; he would have only ever expressed the first part, the second part is an addition, Muhammad would never have said, ’and I am the Rasul of Allah (who is not God). Yet this is the original and complete Shahada, being, ‘No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God).’  
 
I am not denying the fact Muhammad is the Rasul of Allah (who is not God), simply it is a contrived addition to the Shahada, I also see no real problem with this addition been tagged onto the end of the original Shahada, but it can not be used to support the concept of Hadith, sovereign worship, idolatry, or  
 
We are guided to see all messengers of Allah (who is not God) as equal."  
 
 
Questions raised by Sister Nargis can be answered keeping in view the above. But I have to think more.
Comments by: pervez On: 11/12/2010

 
14.Yes brother Pervez,  
The problem arises when we have wrong concept of ALLAH in our minds. I have  
given you a line to think which I have myself found from , "servant of the light" people. It attracted me  
so I shared with you. www.servantofthelight.com  
 
Please visit and find excellent articles there.  
 
I feel doctor QZ , is correct when he says,  
 
"It has three stages.  
1. You are not sleeping and doing things without recalling your memory it is areflex action.  
2. You are sleeping and you see yourself doing things it is dream  
3. You are neither sleeping nor doing things reflexly but you are interpreting your experiences, knowledge, observations and actions of  
your past and of others and you are visualising the laws of nature then you are a genius and you can predict the fate of a nation. You can warn a nation against the disaster they are heading to or you can predict their bright and prosperous future.  
This faculty to learn from the nature is, when nature comes so close to a human being that all hidden secrets start opening up.The person and nature becomes like two bows together (Sura 53 Verse 9).  
 
At this stage Nature starts revealing himself and THIS IS WAHI." YES IT DOES WORK IN RELATION TO THE LAWS OF NATURE."  
 
 
 
 
But than we have to answer our brilliant sisters questions,  
 
 
 
1. "These brilliant Ibleesian Sheateens intended to thoroughly change the words of the Quran, but failed somehow- Why  
 
2. That times Mohammed gave us a book which stated, its impossible to change its words. The worst Iblees's couldnt do it, the statement is proven to be true. How?  
 
3. Could this just be an "observing" of a Man, or men with some special qualities (we dont have) ? Why is such observations "ended" with the last Prophet? How did he know , no more wahy/observation through the nature, or laws of nature, will come?  
 
4. Why cant the Quran be a direct message to the Prophet ?Again, strange that everyone living in the "middle east" had the same observation, even though they didnt live at the same time. . . ."  
 
 
Nargis your above questions are terrible "Skuds" and you ask for  
 
"Momin, you better start this winter sale coz i need the answer juldi juldi "  
 
No, please , have a good cup of coffee and use winter cloths and save yourself from cold over there. OK.
Comments by: momin On: 11/12/2010

 
15.Please consider this essay from www.servantofthelight.com.  
 
Muhammad's AWAKENING  
 
39:42 It is Allah Who takes their consciousness upon death, and of the living during their sleep. Allah withholds it for those upon whom Allah has passed the decree of death, and restores the others until an appointed time. Herein, behold, are Signs for people who think.  
 
A verse of clarity for those who think, as the messenger Muhammad used reason and deep thought, so as a Muslim you must emulate this action.  
 
Muhammad meditated for many years in the evenings, to caves in Jabal-an-Nur (mountain of light), he had a favourite cave called `Ghar-i-Hira' or the cave of research.  
 
Muhammad, like Isa, and Budda, practiced meditation, slowing his mind and clearing his thoughts, over time his ability to slow his mind grow more controlled until one night he achieved 4 to 5 cycles per second, a key cycle of consciousness, triggering something that shattered the very fabric of his reality, this is no small achievement, as in a natural circumstance you will enter REM sleep in such a mental state, so it is the ability to overcome the mechanism of the mind and remain conscious while your mind is at rest. A state of consciousness Buddha called enlightenment, the state of consciousness this essay is about.  
 
Deeply affected, he returned home and related to his wife what had happened, believing he may have gone mad, he expressed his fears; a basic desert existence was all he knew until that night, an experience so profound and in direct contrast to any experience he had even conceived of, it transformed his outlook, his understanding and his connection with reality. The human mind is a physical organ connecting your consciousness to the many senses (we possess 21 sense in all it has been calculated), you use to experience this universe, you are in truth an electromagnetic plasma being, held within a physical body within this reality, this is the first thing to understand.  
 
The universe is held within a manifold, this manifold is a virtual ocean of energy so dense it boggles the mind, each cubic centimetre holding more energy than all the visible universe combined, of a truly infinite reality, this is the second thing to be understood.  
 
The human brain holds your consciousness within this reality, but has the power to set it free; that freedom is possible under certain conditions.  
 
So how is the conscious mind released from this reality; how is the veil of this material reality, our physical universe removed?  
 
The brain has a small solitary gland (the only unpaired gland in the brain) called the pineal gland, it sits well-protected in the deep recesses of the brain, bathed in cerebrospinal fluid by the ventricles (the fluid filled cavities of the brain that feed the pineal and remove the waste), it produces a few things but two main things, melatonin and 5-methoxytryptamine (Dimethyltryptamine (DMT)), it produces DMT (an endogenous (produced inside the organism) psychedelic) naturally every night when your mind hits 4 to 5 cycles per second and you enter REM sleep; it produces DMT when you die; and it produces DMT when through meditation your mind slows to 4 to 5 cycles, being vibrations of energy.  
 
The vibration of your mind through meditation, harmonise both hemispheres of your brain with your electromagnetic energy.  
 
DMT releases your consciousness, Allah (the single consciousness, held within the overarching dichotomy) through this mechanism takes your emotional energy from this reality and then returns it each night.  
 
It may seem a strange idea, your consciousness being take into the manifold each night and then returned, but when people have been injected with DMT they cannot retain the memory of the experience within their electromagnetic plasma field, it cannot be remembered.  
 
DMT is classed as an hallucinogenic drug, as it takes your consciousness from this physical reality, the body is rendered immobile, the memory is shut down, at least in the conscious bringing to mind, it interacts with the subconscious mind, the dormant, yet far, far, more powerful aspect of your sentience.  
 
If DMT is smoked, it is possible to retain some of the memory, they all describe the same reality, without connection or previous knowledge of any other persons experience having been reported, it is always the same reality they describe, this is not the method you should use for this experience, as you would be in the wrong emotional state and hence cannot delve deeply into this reality, being under the influence of a drug and not through the conscious control of your own mind.  
 
The perfect method to experience DMT reality is through meditation, which evokes pineal DMT release (trigger or key to unlocking the conscious mind) through electromagnetic vibrations; achieved by training your mind to vibrate at a low frequency, which can be helped through outside stimulation, such as pulsed sounds or light, which allows your mind to remove the veil of this reality, so you can experience consciously the information transfer of the manifold, with total recall. The practices of the past through tribal rituals that accessed the power of the pineal, utilised rhythmic sounds and actions to lower their frequencies, the Sufi dhikr practice could generate a similar effect. The problem with external drug DMT experience is the noise of the mind, they enter, their mind excited and alive with chatter, the high frequency mind is not ideal, so contaminates the information interaction with random and disconnected thought.  
 
The pineal gland is referred by some as the third eye, by others as the spirit gland; this gland is light sensitive and actually within reptiles has a lens, cornea, and retina, the pineal gland allows you to communicate with the manifold, this information transfer is through the photon, as it is in a basic form within the physical universe, it is to an extreme form within manifold accessed through the pineal gland, so intense is the photon exchange your very being emanates photons, so you glow very slightly.  
 
All the physical reality is a form of energy, whether time, light, mass or space, another way to think of energy would be ordered knowledge, each aspect of energy is ordered, and works in an ordered way, all energy is in continuous exchange with its active time environment and the active manifold (also reference as the energetic vacuum, the ‘A‘ field, Etc.). The photon is also a form of energy and has both spatial and time energy components, whenever a mass absorbs an observable photon, the mass it extended in three dimensional space and forced to continue through time, during the transition virtual photons are absorbed and emitted generating an internal restructuring resulting from the observable photon interaction.  
 
This understanding can be expressed another way, there is out folded light and infolded light, the infolded light is an extraordinary vacuum engine that generates and drives the apparently physical, which is invisibly hidden below the surface, while the out folded light transmit’s the information of the physical.  
 
It being communication at superluminal (faster than the speed of light) speed, using electromagnetic waves inside this infolded, ‘inner’, electrodynamics. Mass is mostly empty space interacting with electromagnetic potentials, fields and waves; so mass is in fact a superhighway for direct superluminal communication using longitudinal electromagnetic waves. The entire universe is a matrix of information, unified, conscious and constantly being reinvented.  
 
The pineal gland sees the infolded light, it observes the vision of the manifold and receives the information these virtual photons transmit.  
 
You may think why does matter that could never absorb a photon, say buried deep within the Earth have existence if the above understanding is correct, well all atomic electrons at any energy level continually receive and emit virtual photons with the manifold, meaning they are permanently connected and interacting with the manifold.  
 
No matter how precise the technological and scientific developments, energy must materialise from the manifold before it can be observed, and so be physical; until Allah materialises it, it does not for all intents and purposes exist, yet we have the power within us to witness beyond this physical realm.  
 
Mohammad took a journey, deep into the underlying reality, a virtual reality of infinite knowledge, on an object called Burraque, the meaning coming from the Arabic root Barque which translates as lightening, so Burraque means intense energy, or energy light, the journey Mohammad took within the information exchange of the manifold was a level of understanding beyond which no human knowledge, residing in this world, has ever delved, or could ever explore deeper, he travelled to the limits of our emotional energy.  
 
Upon his return from this virtual underlying reality of his conscious being, Mohammad found that the door chain of his house was still moving, and the water from which he had made his ablution was still dripping, as if he had been gone only a very short time. The effects of linear time are a manifestation of the manifold as reality is reinvented instant by instant around once every 9 billionths of a second, but within the manifold the illusion of linear time does not exist, so time can be perceived shorter or, longer than time within our physical universe.  
 
Mohammad was asked if he had seen Allah, to which he replied, ‘No’. What is clear is he attained the deepest and utmost knowledge of the true nature of existence, ever conceived or comprehended, and vouchsafed to any man.  
 
Now the preceding explanation has given you a little insight into the functions within yourself, and how every human being has the innate ability to connect as Muhammad, and as Muhammad, once you have consciously connected with this reality, it becomes easier and easier to reconnect, explore deeper and experience fuller the wonder of this arcane reality.  
 
And that’s just what Muhammad did, he continued to explore and experience this wondrous and fascinating deeper reality, underpinning this superficial physical reality; a physical reality we believe to be real, which is in fact a dream in comparison to the manifold that gives this reality it birth, we know little of the manifold, but one thing is for sure, the adventure is just beginning.  
 
If you consider it this way, if the manifold holds all the energy of our visible universe within each and every single cubic centimetre of its truly infinite proportions, and you then consider the scale of our universe in comparison to that superior reality, our physical universe becomes insignificant.  
 
To give you a perspective of just how vast this physical universe is, if you portioned out all the stars man has observed and extrapolated so far, it would mean each person on Earth would hold roughly, Thirty eight trillion, four hundred and sixty one billion, five hundred and thirty eight million, four hundred and sixty one thousand, stars each. To give you a perspective of the scale of that number, if a grain of sand 1mm³ represented each of the stars allotted to each person, each person would have over 84,000 tonnes of sand. To give you a perspective of this number that’s enough sand to cover an acre of ground nine and a half metres high. Now in comparison to the scale of the manifold this physical universe is insignificant, but consider this, the manifold in comparison to the scale of Allah’s creations is comparably insignificant.  
 
The manifold itself is not the end, nor the significant reality of all existence, beyond this and yet still further beyond, Allah is without limits and this is why we can not comprehend Allah’s being, Allah’s imagination, Allah’s manifestation, Allah’s absolute reality. People puzzle over the question, if Allah created all reality, what created Allah, but we do not possess the frame of reference to comprehend the answer to this question. We exist within an ocean of energy, like a fish in the deep ocean, we cannot grasp the further realities awaiting us, just as the fish that exists in total darkness, in freezing temperatures, and at enormous pressure, cannot grasp the reality of a man walking in a sunny wood, a reality completely alien to its frame of reference.  
 
At the fringes, entering the manifold the ordinary world is revealed as a slowly but constantly convecting fluid, ordinary matter in its true state, continually reinventing itself, crystallizing from the inside out in all directions at once and melting away at the surface. It’s in constant flux, pushing against space-time and continually interacting with waves and particles of energy.  
 
Since this physical world is a world of experience, it belongs more to experience than to being. The being, or ontological nature, of this world is quite different from what we perceive and experience as reality.  
 
The experience that engulfs a persons entire being as they slip beneath the surface feels like the penetration of a membrane, a significant occurrence. The mind and the self literally unfold before one's eyes. There is a sense that one is made new, yet unchanged.  
 
This world is teeming with life, it exists in every nook and cranny, in every environmental condition, and I suspect this state is not in isolation. This physical universe I am confident is likewise teeming with life, in every possible location conducive to life. This teeming life filled universe emanates from the manifold, animate or inanimate, searing or frozen, blinding or black, all that exists within the physical universe is sustained and manifest through the conscious energy within the manifold.  
 
The human consciousness enters the manifold at its surface, it depths are unlimited; at the surface, like the surface of a mirror, it reflects back your consciousness, the thought becomes reality, the reality becomes the thought, in this multi-sensory coordination of perception.  
 
The manifold generating this reality is complimentary, and more active in our perceived physical reality than that perception, being the sustaining reality, which is consciousness, a pure conscious life energy, the conscious energy of creation in its extraordinarily intensely concentrated medium, it manifests to our consciousness only as the gift of a new language, the conscious energy sings in pearly voices that rain down as coloured petals and flow through the air like hot metal to become toys of such wonder and imagination they defy description. The sense of emotional connection is terrifying and intense, the contact is unquestionably with something very interactive, attentive, hyper intelligent and ostensibly alien to one's whole existence.  
 
This visible language, the music of Allah expressed in all five senses and all other unknown senses simultaneously, sings knowledge, sings imagination, sings emotions, sings creation, sings vision, sings sensation, sings endless possibilities; the ascension of Mohammad was the deepest communication and communion a human being has ever experienced within this medium of consciousness, the information articulated within this divine language took Mohammad to a level of consciousness we can not comprehend. A multi dimensional expression of communication, articulation of an order beyond the limits of this physical universe.  
 
This language of reality is not a realm of little creatures as people describe superficially, but the ocean of consciousness, expression and imagination the manifold holds. The people who delve into this manifold using external drugs are in the main thrill seekers, they describe amazing events, but when viewed clearly they describe a deeper, richer and spectacular form of communication.  
 
So every time you enter REM sleep, if your pineal gland is functioning correctly, Allah takes you into the manifold, and communicates with your emotional consciousness, such a gift should be treasured; for a lucky few, such as Muhammad, they can achieve this communion in a waking state, so with their conscious mind can not only communicate but explore this magnificent reality.  
 
When people using DMT have experienced this underlying reality they return with a certainty that their consciousness continues after death, they harbour the idea of an existence beyond the physical body, as they realise, at a superficial level, they themselves are woven into the fabric of the manifold. They have a sense of enchantment, of sanctity, of profound beauty, they feel a sense of privilege to access the knowledge, and they feel that their intelligence and connection is increased.  
 
The Mysteries revealed are real and if this deeper reality is ever fully, commonly understood, will strip away much of the confusion, and ignorance surrounding the purpose, and personal obligations of each person upon themselves, so transforming all this world, a world of enslavement, a prison planet for ourselves and our collaborators. A misery, if unchecked, that will lead the traveller ever deeper into despair, until the realisation that you have imprisoned yourself within yourself, from this life into the next.  
 
F  
 
 
Comments by: momin On: 11/12/2010

 
16.My suggestion dear Momin get off from DMT and experience some fresh air. Not a criticism in anyway. Quran is not book of science or book of mysteries. There is a famous Occam rule "the simplest explanation is more likely the correct one." The mystery of "wahy" is always a question for rationalists . There is no explanation I have read to date that can rest this issue without complex ambiguities. The question is always stays as Nirgas stated. If there is some anomaly in universe through which Allah transfer Quran to Prophet Mohammad then why stop to Mohammad. These are the questions that will always linger on we will never understand purpose of our creation and why Allah likes us to live happily.  
Question is what 1400 years ago arab understood by "wahy" and how rational and realistic it was to them. They obviously didn't understand the complexities of the human brain that we don't even understand completely either. If Prophet Mohammad came and told them he received a "wahy" why would they accept it if it was a super natural event that Mohammad can't even explain. It also means if anyone claims that he/she receive wahy there is not way to refute that. So what would be the criteria to judge the "wahy" material considering the fact we don't understand its source.  
I have walked on this thought and it lead me to doubt everything. However someone smarter gave me simple explanation if you guys think it make sense it does not to me at least. Person theory is that wahy is similar mechanism as coming up a elegant piece of poetry. Only it pure in its nature where person own experiences and emotions don't influence it. Go figure that out.....  
Love to hear more from you guys but need simple explanation if possible :-)  
Comments by: AlAhmer On: 11/12/2010

 
17.Dear sister Nargis : your query that “  
But why the need for someone else to write it down, if this prophet is a genious,then he would learn how to read and write. Where did this idea come from in the first place? 80:15-16? How can these observations be so "PERFECT” and PROTECTED as well? “  
Plz note the following. 1:- The meaning and sense of the quranic term “ SAFARA”in verse 80/15 has been taken wrong in orthodox interpretations. To take the true sense of this term see the very next verse 80/16, even then for more clarification see the verse 80/38-42 , BE AIDIN SAFARA doesn’t mean the writers of Wahy rather the poised people those always consult the quran in their life matters to act upon. 2:- plz put the meaning of all attributes mentioned in quran ie Muhammad,Musa,Yahya,Zakariya, Nouh,Saleh ,Firaoun,haroot,maroot,yajooj majooj,don’t take these as a proper noun,then seek the guidance. The NABI / RASOOL of the time takes guidance from this book in the light of Wahy (concieving of divine ideas) to solve the current issues of his nation. 3:-plz differentiate between MUHAMMAD KHATIM ANNABIEN (NAZALA ALA QALB E MUHAMMAD) and Muhammad ibn e Abdullah(the prophet).  
The people always,having trend to keep the names of their children (proper noun) as per attributes written in quran.Also the religious leaders trend in each era, had been, to write the books with their hands like BIBLE,BUKHARY,USOOL KAFEE etc etc and claims these are the divine books see the verse 2/79. In all religions you will find many mythological and ritualistic semilerities ,these all are multilated from thi ALKITAB.  
4:- I requet plz read my previous post in attachment of this to comprehend the said issue,as you dare to set aside the present rituals and taken the true meanings of the following quranic terminologies,SALAT,MASJID E AQSA, MASJID E HARAM,MAQAM E IBRAHEEM, SAFA-MARWA,HAJJ,SOUM, MAQAM E BADR, MUCCA, etc etc,you have to set aside the name of prophets and others, written in quran as a proper noun, and have to consider their meanings according to the context of quran,also take the help of lexicon to find out the truth, THEN PRESENT THIS BOOK TO THE MANKIND AS THE DEVINE MESSAGE BEYOND TIME AND SPACE.  
 
5:- HOW ,WHEN WHERE FROM, IN WHICH LANGUAGGE, THIS ALKITAB FOUND AT EARTH??????????????????????? SOLVE THE MYSTERY................................  
Comments by: moazzam On: 11/12/2010

 
18.Dear friends, tomorrow its saturday and ill have time to read through the loooong posts by Momin (i thought u didnt have a winter sale:-O)  
 
I agree with you Brother Moazzam, names are attributes and the book is divine message beyond time and space, but it was given to us by/through only one Mohammed,Mohammed Bin Abdullah. New Mohammeds (with the attribute and character similar to Mohammed Bin Abdullah) need the Quran to develop, but they didnt give us the original Quran which is preserved. I mean to say, this times Mohammed will find a way to pass us the Quran, but he will not be the first one to give us the Quran, he just find a new method to explain the already existing message. (dont know how to explain it:-()  
 
 
The Quran Mohammed Bin Abdullah gave us, is the preserved one, and "used" by new Mohammed,Eesa,Mosa .....  
 
Maybe i dont understand what you mean? :-(
Comments by: Nargis On: 11/12/2010

 
19.  
 
I LOVE YOU ALL WHO THINK. Please continue, never stop thinking even if God tells you to stop.  
We will think. Now I am thinking on what Brother Moazzem said,  
 
 
 
5:- HOW ,WHEN WHERE FROM, IN WHICH LANGUAGGE, THIS ALKITAB FOUND AT EARTH??????????????????????? SOLVE THE MYSTERY................................  
 
 
Yes, Al-kitab are natural laws found on earth, any human can conceive , anywhere, anytime, anyplace in  
any language, through any media/method. This is spontanious try to solve the above mystery. I may be  
wrong MOAZZEM.  
 
 
 
 
Comments by: momin On: 11/12/2010

 
20.Dear sister Nargis,  
 
Your questions are absolutely valid, still to be answered , sincerely I can't. However let me try to answer,  
 
Nargis,  
 
1. "These brilliant Ibleesian Sheateens intended to thoroughly change the words of the Quran, but failed somehow- Why  
 
Pervez.  
 
We are lucky. The Prophet had penned down and left it in written form.  
 
Nargis  
 
2. That times Mohammed gave us a book which stated, its impossible to change its words. The worst Iblees's couldnt do it, the statement is proven to be true. How?  
 
Pervez.  
 
This is not written in the book, protection of wahi doesn't mean that. As clarified earlier by doctor sahib,  
laws of nature doesn't change and God keeps sending messengers/reminders for guidance of humanity.  
That is how he protects his laws.  
 
Nargis.  
 
3. Could this just be an "observing" of a Man, or men with some special qualities (we dont have) ? Why is such observations "ended" with the last Prophet? How did he know , no more wahy/observation through the nature, or laws of nature, will come?  
 
Pervez.  
 
I have no answer to your this brilliant question. Yet, I appreciate your intelligence and thoughtful mind. I  
request brother Moazzem to answer this question.  
 
Nargis.  
 
4. Why cant the Quran be a direct message to the Prophet ?Again, strange that everyone living in the "middle east" had the same observation, even though they didnt live at the same time. . . ."  
 
Pervez.  
 
Can we personalize God as a being, If yes, than he should have given direct message to the prophet as  
you expect. If he is not a personal God than how can he do that? Second part of your question can be  
answered with an example. Anyone who visits Murree has almost the same observations regarding  
beauty and weather of this resort. Isn't it?
Comments by: pervez On: 11/12/2010

 
21.Dear Pervez, sister Nargis: Your query that, " Could this just be an "observing" of a Man, or men with some special qualities (we dont have) ? Why is such observations "ended" with the last Prophet? How did he know , no more wahy/observation through the nature, or laws of nature, will come? "Plz read the following paragraph of my previous post. Infact the so called muslim ulama (religious leaders)of this era made this topic a sentimental issue.  
:-The verse 2/129 describes the duties assigned to rasool,it means any body who is performing the same job,falls in the categorg of rasool(imam). RASOOL / IMAM will remain in the societies till the dooms day.Go through 2/129,3/164,10/74,16/36,16/89,17/15,28/59,40/34,also the comments of opponents (non- believers)are the evidence ,that the rasools are not predestined supper humen see verse 17/94,25/41.The story of prophit Ibraheem verse 2/124, and the whole story of prophit musa along with prophit Haroon ,also vers7/124 ,20/13 shows the testing and selection criteria of a rasool/nabi, in each era.Search in your society with open eyed and heart,you may find many rasools/imam,at the same time.NO NEED TO BE EMOTIONAL...............
Comments by: moazzam On: 11/13/2010

 
22.Dear all  
I thought religion was not all that confusing but I was wrong. There are people who know how to mix up things and make every simple thing as confusing as ghost. This ghost may haunt you in your wildest moments. Be ware!  
People visit the forum to learn about the unknown; not to get confused or terrified by ghosts.  
There should always be a dead line while commenting on delicate issues.  
Shariq  
Comments by: SS On: 11/15/2010

 
23.why are you confused?  
 
Comments by: Nargis On: 11/15/2010

 
24.Dear Shariq : Your comments that, "I thought religion was not all that confusing but I was wrong. There are people who know how to mix up things and make every simple thing as confusing as ghost. This ghost may haunt you in your wildest moments. Be ware! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Brother Shariq,  
YES YOU WAS WRONG, i believed in your above quoted sentence since long back.The GHOST OF RELIGION has already hounted more than 3/4th of the earthlings and overwhelming majorety is still in its SHARP JAWS.Remember we the AASTANA TEEM is struggling our hard to rescue the mankind by over throughing this GHOST OF RELIGION,and trying our best to show them the enlightened path of NATURAL,and LOGICALLY BASED THE TRUE QURANIC DEEN, which discreminate rational from irrationals.SO JOIN US IF YOU ARE SINCERE IN YOUR ADVISE OR CORRECT US RATIONALLY.
Comments by: moazzam On: 11/16/2010

 
25.These verses from surah najm throw light on the authorship of the Quran:  
 
53:2 Your honored companion is neither in error, nor is he misled.  
53:3 Nor does he utter the Word out of his desire.  
53:4 This (Qur‟an) is but a revelation that is being revealed to him.  
53:5 He has been taught by the One Mighty in Powers.  
53:6 The Owner of authority and wisdom established him (the Prophet).  
53:7 At the highest horizon, [81:23]  
53:8 Of human wisdom and knowledge as he drew near and approached (the point where the human intellect comes to a halt),  
53:9 Till he was but two bow-lengths away, or even closer. [The Divine will and the will of the Messenger merged together, like the two of you join your bows as a token of friendship. 8:17]  
53:10 And thus He revealed to His servant what He revealed.  
 
It is clarified that the Quran was revealed to Muhammand (SAW) through a process called 'wahi'. The Quran gives sufficient scientific information, the knowledge of which was not prevalant 14 centuries ago. Hence, there cannot be any doubt that the source of the book is Allah and Muhammad (SAW) was only the medium, the messenger. Why he was chosen to be the messenger and how did he receive the messages is a subject of speculation. We cannot arrive at a consensus on this subject as no human being has any knowledge about it. At the most, people can intellectualize & rationalize, although only speculatively, using the current level of human knowledge and understanding. We have to accept that we have not reached the zenith of knowledge and certain things will continue to elude us. What we cannot explain currently, we must not try to write it off by diminishing it to our current standard of knowledge. Just as brother Mubashir pointed, we didn't know about mobile technology a few decades back. Today we speak to anyone in any part of the world. Interestingly, the visible light that helps us perceive things around us, is a small part of electromagnetic radiation. Radio waves, x-rays, gamma rays, etc. are all part of EMR. Our wireless communication also happens in EMR. For two devices to connect, they have to be on the same wavelength. Hence our mobile phones are tuned to work on certain frequencies. If, with our highly limited knowledge of EMR and it's working, we are successfully able to communicate not just on the earth but also with space probes and shuttles, why should people think it improbable that the creator of everything, including EMR, would not communicate to his messenger? To be a bit speculative, maybe all messengers had some part of the brain which was more active as compared to you and me, and hence they were able to receive the divine commands. Since none of them are present, we cannot do a MRI and map their brain activity, so we will not be able to find conclusive answers. But wahi it was.
Comments by: Naushad On: 11/16/2010

 
26.i like your answer.
Comments by: Nargis On: 11/16/2010

 
27.Dear Naushad :Well done,but the prophets would be cosidered as a supper human( if MRI proved physically some thing extra in a human body)like any EMR device or robot-like embaded chip or the extra brain portion itself.,this will lead to the QUESTION BOX (pindora box)Plz find the answer in the verses you quoted,keeping the prophet amongst one of the narmal humanbeing.I think you will get it .....sure .53:2 Your honored companion is neither in error, nor is he misled.  
53:3 Nor does he utter the Word out of his desire.  
53:4 This (Qur‟an) is but a revelation that is being revealed to him.  
53:5 He has been taught by the One Mighty in Powers.  
53:6 The Owner of authority and wisdom established him (the Prophet).  
53:7 At the highest horizon, [81:23]  
53:8 Of human wisdom and knowledge as he drew near and approached (the point where the human intellect comes to a halt),  
53:9 Till he was but two bow-lengths away, or even closer. [The Divine will and the will of the Messenger merged together, like the two of you join your bows as a token of friendship. 8:17]  
53:10 And thus He revealed to His servant what He revealed.  
Comments by: moazzam On: 11/16/2010

 
28.Ouukay,brother Moazzam let me see if i understood, Wahy is observations by men we call prophets, and they are very intelligent people who have observed the psychological laws human beings have to live by, so they can develop? So the observation is complete and unchangable,given to us in written book, the Quran? right?
Comments by: Nargis On: 11/16/2010

 
29.Dear Moazzam, it would be a bit stretching to imagine prophets as super humans or robots. By the way, what we call as chip in robot is the brain in humans. As you know, a normal person does not use more than 10% of his brain. And everything that we do in the material world is a product of what happens in the mind. Brain scans of achievers have shown different patterns than normal people. Scientists have observed difference in images for the same person's brain when he was exposed to different stimuli. It must be remembered that different parts of the brain work for different activities. My speculation is that the prophets would have actualized the latent potential of their minds and would have reached unprecedented levels of knowledge and wisdom. Perhaps the same is indicated in these verses:  
53:6 The Owner of authority and wisdom established him (the Prophet).  
53:7 At the highest horizon, [81:23]  
53:8 Of human wisdom and knowledge as he drew near and approached (the point where the human intellect comes to a halt).  
Perhaps that was the criteria for prophethood. But as I said, we can only speculate. What should matter to us is that we already have the divine guidance with us, we know what is our duty in our temporal existence and where we stand now. So while we engage in these discussions, precious time is flowing by and we also need to act. Just knowing is not enough. We must try not to digress from the purpose of our existence.
Comments by: Naushad On: 11/16/2010

 
30.Dear All,  
 
The speculation on WAHI, from the very beginning of discussion, was a superfluous exercise (pls don’t take offense – I quote below the authority in support of this statement). I suggest it should be summed up with Brother Naushad’s practical and far-sighted conclusion where he said :  
 
“ But as I said, we can only speculate. What should matter to us is that we already have the divine guidance with us, we know what is our duty in our temporal existence and where we stand now. So while we engage in these discussions, precious time is flowing by and we also need to act. Just knowing is not enough. We must try not to digress from the purpose of our existence.”  
 
Throughout the above discussions, we kept forgetting the divine decree :-  
 
Verse 17/85: يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوح  
ۖ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّي وَمَا أُوتِيتُم مِّنَ الْعِلْمِ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا ِ -﴿  
(They will ask you about WAHI, Say that the WAHI is composed of my Rabb’s commandment; what you are given from its knowledge is but a meager little bit.)  
 
In view of this divine decree, if we believe in the divinity of WAHI, should we continue speculating and hypothesizing this subject? Shall we ultimately reach a conclusion? I am afraid, we shall not!  
 
Another very important point about above discussions that has been grossly overlooked by all; I may try to explain :  
 
Supposing that, as most of us have hypothesized above, it was the NATURE that revealed itself to my Lord pbuh, and Quran (WAHI) was the result of his own intellectual observations……then…….  
 
HE WAS THE GREATEST CHARLATAN OF HIS TIME (Nauzu Billah..)  
 
BECAUSE: He deliberately advanced the false concept of an ALLAH;  
 
He deceived people by calling his observations as Divine Injunctions;  
 
He falsely proclaimed himself a Messenger of Allah;  
 
And he started a movement in the fake name of an Allah and he ruled in the name of that Allah;  
 
He deceivingly claimed to be in contact with ALLAH for abt. 23 years of his life.  
 
(I can enumerate dozens of other pertinent objections against him from Quran…)  
 
Why would a man of his exalted status and profound knowledge act as an IMPOSTER (Nauzu Billah) ?  
 
Why would he proclaim : 10/15: قُلْ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أُبَدِّلَهُ مِن تِلْقَاءِ نَفْسِي  
ۖ ۖ إِنِّي أَخَافُ إِنْ عَصَيْتُ رَبِّي عَذَابَ يَوْمٍ عَظِيمٍ ﴿ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ  
(Say, it is not possible for me to change it (Quran) of my own accord; I pursue not but what is signaled towards me; I fear the torment of the big day if I transgress the commands of my Rabb.)  
Isn’t that a fraud, a misguiding statement?  
 
Why would he not straightforwardly say that he was an intellectual, a philosopher or a visionary, or a born leader of men with most enlightened concepts for humanity?  
 
Can a man Mohammad, however high level of wisdom he may have achieved, be an ultimate expert in all the fields of human behavior and all the sciences, in a single lifetime; so that whatever he may have observed and written about the diverse and multiple facets of life and of the universe be proved the last word in that field?  
 
Can we attribute all the above negative points to my Lord pbuh ? If we are ready to go that far, then sure we can follow the theory of NATURE, INTELLECT, OBSERVATION, etc. It is up to us, individually!  
 
BUT, IF THE ABOVE ALLEGATIONS ARE UNIMAGINABLE IN RELATION WITH HIS EXALTED PERSON, then…… WAHI… is…. divine – and that….”We have been given but a paltry bit of knowledge about it” (Al-Quran).  
 
God bless you.  
Comments by: aurangzaib On: 11/17/2010

 
31.Dear all : Regards,Yes Mr Naushad's comments are true "that man is the mohammad bin abdullah ,by him we explained this quran.This was the point i tryed to explain in my previous post,this posision could be achieved by the verse 17/79, see the verse 3/144,47/2,48/29.But there is difference between MOHAMMAD KHATEM ANNABIEN described in verse 33/40, this ALKITAB was revealed at this mohammad ,who is not ABAA AHADUN MIN RAJJALUKUM
Comments by: moazzam On: 11/17/2010

 
32.Dear All,  
There are two ways to approach the book,  
 
1. Having blind faith in whatever is written in it without questioning, believing it to be from a supernatural being.  
 
2. Not having blind faith. Putting everything to inquiry.  
 
I like the second point of view. So, I applaud all those who participated in the discussion. Especially, sister Nargis  
who asked this wonderful question and brother Moazzem who gave good replies. I learn t a lot. It is very surprising  
to use rational approach at certain subjects and leave Wahi saying we can't understand? We can understand this  
also and I have understood from the posts of Moazzem. It is not the exercise in futility rather the best discussion so  
for on aastana. You can not stop irrationals from saying any thig like that, even if you adopt blind faith approach.  
After all Muslims are blind since centuries, but who could stop irrational from saying what they say??? Mr Shariq,  
I thought you are a man of rational approach as I thought of you from your posts. But you too want blind/emotional  
faith Why? I think rationality is necessary for fighting even terrorism. Look Shariq how people stick to irrational  
ideas only due to their blind faith in "Wahi-ghair mutloo" So let us analyze and rationalize what WAHI is, boldly  
and courageously with sincere and honest approach. ONE DAY WE WILL UNDERSTAND EVEN GOD WHAT  
TO TALK OF WAHI no matter if he says we can't think, we will our generations will. as much as it is necessary  
for us. If we stop thinking millions will still think. How will you stop them dear Shariq???Lay no barriers to human  
thinking. Mr Abdun has done good research. I am studying that from www.servantofthelight.com  
 
ooth gia perda nassihat ger k lug pernay sai meer  
 
phar dala mai geraiban rat ko daman samait.  
 
 
Comments by: momin On: 11/17/2010

 
33.PLEASE CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING FROM SERVANT OF THE LIGHT,  
 
 
 
 
 
To understand the Qur’an, Buddhism or Science with a clean mind you must abandon the conventional conceptual contaminations of the past, I have listed some below, many of my essays are simply an attempt to reason through these misconceptions to there conclusions:  
 
Abandon the concept of:  
 
God - God is a supernatural being worshiped as the personification or controller of some aspect of the universe. (See essay ‘God and Allah’. ‘Supreme Existence.’ ‘Transcendent Evolution of Knowledge.’)  
 
The correct concept is:  
 
Allah (Not God)- the conscious energy emanating all reality from its non existence, out from its heart, to its apparent physical substance, of all realities, through the conscious will of Allah‘s imagination. The single conscious reality of the tension, held between the overarching dichotomy.  
 
Abandon the concept of:  
 
Religion - an obsessive set of strongly-held principles accepted through faith, dogmas, and institutionalised beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life. (Religion is clearly denied within the Qur’an, a concept you must abandon as directed.)  
 
The correct concept is:  
 
Deen - simply an understanding of existence, free from the contaminations of indoctrinations and conditionings, holding truth above all else. The concepts and principles presented to guide you through life, in economics, politics, society, family and spirituality.  
 
Abandon the concept of:  
 
Superstition- irrational beliefs: irrational and often quasi-religious belief in and reverence for the magical effects of some actions and rituals, or the magical powers of some objects. (Be very careful where you place your fears, as you worship what you fear, and as a Muslim you must fear nothing.) (See essay ‘Seeds’.)  
 
The correct concept is:  
 
Reason - the power of being able to think in a logical and rational manner, an explanation or justification for something, the ability to think logically regarded as a basis for knowledge, as distinct from experience or emotions to try to persuade or influence somebody by means of rational argument to formulate or resolve something using rational means.
Comments by: momin On: 11/17/2010

 
34.Dear all : plz read these comments along with my previous post,keeping in view the verse 17/79, that how the why start to reveal on the poised thinkers, to guide his nation in the light of quran (called rasool).//////////////////////  
If some one constantly uses and develops his brain's machinery through learning,( means practicing targeted activities) that engage the senses and his memories, to develop oscillation in his senses to more sharpen,also he spend time each day in intensive, effortful learning and thinking,then definitely he will achieve his goal.. Under these conditions,his faculties can be remarkably well conserved. For example, professional musicians can sustain high abilities at their craft until the end of life, but only if they practice almost every day using an intensive and closely attentive learning strategy. Their careful listening, precise movement, and accurate reading and complex memory practice can sustain their great skills.THE SAME SENSE of practice of a man in his thinking process especially, in the field of humanities, could increase his abilities to aqua r the guidance from Allah ( the nature) go to the verses 53/3-----10, to explain the quran to his nation of that era ,if he is performing his duties according to the verse 2/129, then he will be called RASOOL..Remember this quran was revealed ALA QALB E MUHAMMAD (KHATEM ANNABIEN), not at muhammad refer ed in verses 3/144,47/2,48/29,17/79  
 
 
 
Comments by: moazzam On: 11/17/2010

 
35.Dear All  
I really appreciate the comments given by Brother Aurangzeb. This discussion touched some critical limits, which falls outside the domain of religion. It amounts to totally denial of the Prophet-hood. "Wahi" is something which cannot be subjected to scrutiny. It is not attainable by everyone. This was a source of knowledge, through which Allah communicated with His Prophets. The source is not available at this point so it cannot be tested for authenticity. You have to accept it without questioning its legitimacy.  
 
If one wants to keep himself within the confines of religion, then some pre-requisites have to be accepted as they are. for example, one has to believe that there is a creator, who is God. That God is concerned about the life in this world and sends Messengers to guide the humanity. He (God) communicated with the Messengers through "Wahi". If you start doubting the "Wahi" then it is better you may opt to remain out of the religious domain. There is no pressure on you to believe it or accept it. After all a great number of humans living in this world, do not believe in God.  
 
If you wans to remain within the confines of Islam, then stop spreading skeptic comments about Islam.  
You have to accept the Wahi as an external source of knowledge, given to Prophets only. (Mr) Nargis, I think you need to be careful in commenting on such topics. This is a public forum. There are people out there who give sanctity to Sacred Beings.  
It is not boldness to curse or doubt the tenants of Islam or abuse those who are taken as sacred. There is always a better way of saying things.  
 
Shariq  
Comments by: SS On: 11/17/2010

 
36.Dear Momin, you say Allah is not God. Without going into my personal thoughts or beliefs, I suggest you should reflect on these verses:  
 
Verse 6:19 says Allah is 'ilaahoon waahidoon'. What do you think of this?  
 
قل اي شئ اكبر شهادة قل الله شهيد بيني وبينكم واوحي الي هذا القران لانذركم به ومن بلغ ائنكم لتشهدون ان مع الله الهة اخري قل لا اشهد قل انما هو اله واحد وانني بري مما تشركون  
 
Say (O Messenger), “What could be the greatest witness?” Say, “Allah is Witness between me and you. This Qur’an has been revealed to me so that I may warn you as well as whomever it reaches. Do you bear witness that there are other deities/gods besides Allah?” Say, “I bear no such witness.” Say, “He is the One God. I disown what you associate with Him.”  
 
While you argue that Allah is not god ('ilah'), the Quran commands Ibrahim to proclaim that Allah is the One 'ilah'. It may also help you on reflecting on these verses:  
 
2:7 Allah (His Law of Cause and Effect) has sealed their hearts and their hearing, and on their sight there is a veil. And theirs will be a tremendous suffering.  
 
2:213 Mankind were one single community (but selfishness divided them). So, God sent prophets as bearers of good news and warnings. He sent down with them the scripture in absolute truth that it might judge between people wherein they differed. But again, out of mutual rivalry, they divided themselves after all evidence of the Right had come to them! So, God shows the lighted road to those who would acknowledge the truth and thus resolve their disputes. And God guides to the straight road him who wills to be guided.  
 
3:4 He has bestowed guidance upon mankind before, and now He has sent the Final Criterion between right and wrong. Those who reject the revelations of God, theirs will be a strict retribution. God Almighty’s Law of Cause and Effect carries all things and actions to their logical outcome.  
 
45:23 Have you ever noted him who makes his desires his god? Consequently, God lets him go astray despite his knowledge, seals up his hearing and his heart, and places a veil on his sight. Then who will lead him after he has left God? Will you not then remember (this admonition)?  
 
Comments by: Naushad On: 11/17/2010

 
37.Written by Abdun Nur J  
GOD AND ALLAH  
 
 
What is God?  
 
 
The word means “that which is invoked,” another way of saying this would be “that which is called upon,” so your calling upon a greater power, an attempt to summon a force from outside of you.  
 
This separate force, or entity requiring prayer to establish communication with, and must be informed of your needs and desires through ritual and individual prayer.  
 
God is a supernatural being worshiped as the personification or controller of some aspect of the universe, an object of worship something that dominates somebody’s life: something that is so important that it takes over somebody’s life. Making God a personification to be worshiped?  
 
Meaning this, a personification is an attribution of human qualities to abstracts, religions treat somebody or something as god: to treat somebody or something as divine and show respect by engaging in acts of praise and devotion. So religions are groups of people showing their adoration, devotion, and respect for a god.  
 
So all Gods require religion, which is obligation and reverence. All Gods require worship “condition of worth,” which is engaging in acts of praise and devotion. All Gods require blind faith, which is ignorance and baseless trust, keeping faith with somebody or something to be loyal or true to a person or promise on faith without demanding or requiring proof. All Gods require religious dogma, which manifest as removal of free will and the removal of rational thought.  
 
Interestingly Christianised Muslims refer to Islam as a faith, but to have faith is to have nothing, to form belief is the creation of a Muslim, to confirm belief is the attainment of knowledge; to transcend knowledge is the transformation of the self, the evolution of your essence.  
 
You can invoke a God, summon him simply from the act of a prayer, (in the view of the ignorant), which is the earnest request for something you wish for, something that is wanted or hoped for very much; you pray for it, like the throwing of magic spells?  
 
A God is a separate and powerful entity, which has generally the physical form of a man, not exclusively.  
 
A God is in control of only certain aspects of existence.  
 
This is the general understanding of God expressed by the majority of the world, but this understanding has been carefully shaped by the artificial religions, based in the emotional confusion of Iblis (base desire), all religions impact negatively upon humanity, pulling down all higher emotional values, who’s concepts and practices are disseminated predominantly through the Catholic and Zionist Jewish religions, moulding the views and practices of the ignorant to clone the religious structure they propagate, people adhering to this concept of God enforce and inflict their beliefs onto others. Christianised Islam is a poignant example.  
 
The history of this world has created many and varied personified or objectified Gods, too many to mention, the description above would in almost every aspect quantify each and every one. But how can the creator of all be a man or an inanimate object, this would be the delusion of an ignorant mind, a God in name only, but as I have described this is always the case.  
 
The concept of a God cannot be harmonized with the concept of Allah (who is not God), the description the religious cultivate of the creator of all, set within boundaries, limited, constrained, is the direct opposite to the truth. It is a certainty that Allah (who is not God) is not interchangeable with the word God, and should never be expressed as such.  
 
Modern Muslims commonly believe the Christian concept of God is the same as the understanding of Allah (who is not God), simply a synonym, if this is the case these Christianised Muslims must believe a man can be a God, and God is a trinity, this is the concept of a Christian personified God, the absolutely false and insane concept of the ignorant, not only is this specifically, and comprehensively denied within the Qur’an, but would be considered a Shirk.  
 
Some modern Muslims believe the Jewish God is again simply a synonym, but you would have to believe the Jews are the only human beings of value to that God, been his chosen people, that all the non-Jewish human beings are worthless and sub-human in comparison to the Jew, so to be exploited and abused as the Jewish people feel fit, to view this perversion as true would again be a Shirk.  
 
Some even believe themselves to be Gods, or equal to a god on this world. They should view it in this way, a man is a light bulb, as compared to a power station of infinite proportions, we cannot create the power, but simply shine from the power given to us from the power station, we cannot take more power than our capacity allows, if the power is removed we are in darkness, we have no function or purpose.  
 
What is Allah (who is not God)?  
 
 
 
Two views of Allah (who is not God) are given to us within the Qur’an.  
 
These following verses describe the emotional and conscious Allah (who is not God) (please note these are the traditional translations of the Qur’an, meaning they are only a shadow of there full express, and will be replaced as the correct translation have been completed):  
 
The One is Allah (who is not God), there is No deity besides No God, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. the One is the Instant and Sustaining Source of all Mercy and Kindness.  
 
The One is Allah (who is not God), there is No deity besides No God, the sovereign, the Impeccably pure, the perfection of peace and the source of all peace, the Bestower of Confident Conviction, the overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the All Powerful, Exalted is Allah (who is not God) above whatever they associate with the One.  
 
The One is Allah (who is not God), the Supreme Creator, the Shaper out of Nothing, the Fashioner, to Whom belong the most beautiful attributes of perfection. All things in the heavens and the earth constantly work to manifest the One’s Grandeur and to fulfil the One’s Plan. And the One is Almighty, the Wise. (Surah 59-22 to 24)  
 
(The meaning of the words the One: Allah (who is not God), the One being exchanged for he, she, him, her as this gives both gender and personifies Allah (who is not God).)  
 
This following verse describes the physical conceptualisation of Allah (who is not God) as far as we can comprehend within this realm of existence:  
 
24:35 Allah (who is not God) is the Energy of the heavens and the earth. The example of the One’s Energy is that of a lamp that is placed inside a niche enclosed in glass that shines like a radiant star. This lamp is kindled from a blessed tree - olive - neither of the East nor of the West. Allah (who is not God)'s Energy issues forth in all directions. The oil glows by itself even though no fire has touched it. Energy upon Energy. Allah (who is not God) guides to the One’s Light anyone who seeks guidance. And Allah (who is not God) sets forth allegories for mankind. And Allah (who is not God) does know all things.  
 
The problem is the ignorant look externally for what exists internally; there is no God, no outside force to call upon. What you seek is to be released, expanded, cultivated, nurtured from within yourself.  
 
A God is an outside force.  
 
Allah (who is not God) is a force emanating our essence out from within us, this is the difference between God and Allah (who is not God), they are in opposition, one emanates all reality, while the other concept simply controls all reality.  
 
So in actuality the creator of all cannot be a personification, (as it is conscious energy, upon energy, upon energy) blind faith is ignorance and laziness in truth, (man has been created for knowledge), religion is a creation conceived by greedy men for the control of the human mind and body, religion removes rational thought, free will and understanding, again a direct opposite of the truth. Religions establish parasitic hierarchies, to plunder the poor, abuse the venerable and exploit the weak, almost without exception, a representative of religion been the most usurious occupation ever conceived.  
 
The religious hierarchy take all you can give, and in return; they will take all you could attain, they live from the premeditated theft of the fruits of the labour of others; and in return for your money and your sovereignty, they blind you to the truth, they starve you of knowledge, they frighten you with falsifications, and they hold you in ignorance.  
 
O you who have believed, indeed the scholars and the monks devour the wealth of people unjustly and avert them from the way of Allah. And those who hoard gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah (who is not God) - give them tidings of a painful punishment. (Surah 9 - 34)  
 
The Qur’an makes it plain, all the knowledge required to establish the correct, concepts and principles, is held within the Qur’an, it is a complete book, but the privileged, the powerful have perverted the message of Islam, to allow them to continue to exploit and abuse the mass population. They focus the people away from the understanding of the Qur’an, telling them they are not capable of understanding such a deep book, only the scholar can interpret and decipher the message. They encourage the people to read the Qur’an in Arabic, an alien language to most, and advise them to take the interpretation of a favoured scholar so removing the ability to fully understand the concepts and guidance it represents, focusing them on the noise as an alternative to the understanding, confusing the truth with dogma, ritual and superstition. The key to understanding Islam through all the confusion generated by the privileged is the comprehension of the first part of the Shahada, understand this completely then you will be more able to easily understand the Qur‘an and so your function and purpose.  
 
To worship is without point, Rumi said, “You worship what you fear. So watch where you place your fears.” (To seek the truth and be submissive to it, is part of the purpose), to call upon a personified God would be futile as the attributes of the creating conscious energy are within everyone always.  
 
‘There is No God, there is only God’. Many state this as true, a statement without point or purpose, lacking truth and understanding, as I have explained God shares only one aspect with the energy.  
 
If we examine the Arabic concept, ‘Allah’, this has to be considered with script writing technique as well as grammar. But more importantly script writing technique. To the best of our knowledge there is not lot of work done in the past on writing technique. A surprise really.  
The Arabic word اللَّهِ is not one word. It actually consist of three words in this order. First word is الذي =Allathee means "who is". This in writing is well know to be only written as ال or Al but this Al does not mean "the". It is followed by لا , Laa, meaning "not" and finally الهَ , illah, meaning the pagan Arab God or God in general. Hence the whole phrase would translated as "who is not god".  
 
Le = no/denial/is not: There is No.  
 
ila = except/nothing but.  
 
No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God)  
 
Allah (who is not God) is the perfect anti-name, it is neither a name, nor, not a name, it describes what is not in existence, a God, and what is in existence, not a God, as no name can be given to the emanating reality; not God; is the best we can achieve.  
 
‘Allah is really not a word. It is combination of words, or in English part of a sentence. The issue is how Arabic script was written. Common belief is that Arabic script is written as cursive.  
 
The English language is Cursive, however, in English word separation is indicated by space. In contrast Arabic script can join words, but uses certain signs to indicate word separation. These are called Jezm and Sukoon:  
 
Gezm is used to indicated declinable words attached to other words.  
 
Sukoon indicates a non Mutherick consonant in a non-declinable word.  
 
Words can be joined together as well. This joining is indicated by Teshdeed. This is the case with Allah.’ Dr Badar Kanwar (pease read 'A Careful Linguistic Analysis of the Term Allah.' )  
 
 
Not God tells us to understand attributes and express these, Allah (who is not God) is: the Supreme Existence which is out of sight; whose extremely exalted position leaves the human intellect perplexed; whose sovereignty reigns supreme in the universe and to whom subservience is due by all components of the Ones creation, Allah (who is not God) is beyond human perception - “No vision can grasp the One”, yet the One is apparent in all things.  
 
No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God).  
 
This statement has both point and understanding, there is No God, no personifications, no idols, no living human God ever, there is only Allah (Not God), the consciousness, layered as multi infinite nesting dimensions, multi-dimensional energy, in truth absolutely nothing else exists, only Allah.  
 
If you consider the predominant structured phrase, of the English translation of the Shaharda, using the word ignorance in exchange for the word God, this is how it reads:  
 
No ignorance but the ignorance.  
 
There is one ignorance that is the ignorance. (This sentence does not conform to the Arabic with the use of ‘that is’, it being directly opposite to the Arabic preposition - except, but, no, denial, there is no.)  
 
There is no ignorance. Except the ignorance.  
 
Now using the correct translation with the word God exchanged:  
 
No ignorance but who is not ignorance.  
 
There is no ignorance. Except who is not ignorance.  
 
There is no ignorance. But who is not ignorance.  
 
No ignorance. Except for who is not ignorance.  
 
They have certainly disbelieved who say, “Allah (who is not God) is the third of three, and there is no god except one God.” And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. (Surah 5 - 73)  
 
The Qur’an tells us plainly, the prevailing doctrines of the holy trinity and the belief that all the religions fundamentally following a single God, the same god, are completely false. For how can Allah (who is not God) be their God when the concept of Allah (who is not God) is totally alien to that of a God, the underlying understanding of Islam is there is no God. The verse expresses both concepts of firstly the trinity and then the concept that there is a single God we all worship and give blind faith to, it then without doubt tells you to desist from this misconception and understand the foundation of Islam, No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God).  
 
They take their doctors of law and their monks for Lords besides Allah (who is not God), and (also) the Messiah, son of Mary. And they were enjoined that they should serve one God only - there is NO God only Allah (who is not God). Exalted is the One above whatever they associate with the One. (Surah 9, 31)  
 
Again the Qur’an makes it clear there is no God, and tells the ignorant that it is a Shirk to call Allah (who is not God) God.  
 
And do not invoke with Allah (who is not God) another authority. There is no authority except Allah (who is not God). Everything is mortal except Allah (who is not God). the One is the judgement, and to the One you will be returned. (Surah 28, 88)  
 
To worship is of little value, and to have faith in God as described previously is indolent ignorance, only complete submission to the will of supreme existence is required, ignore the will of existence at your own peril. Only in one aspect does the concept of God make reference to the energy of the infinite, that of been the creator, however to equate the understanding of God with the true understanding of Allah (who is not God) is as foolish as to state, a bicycle and a plane are indistinguishable, simply because they both transport people.  
 
We must submit to the will of the creator or we will not be in unity, exist without religion, without worship, without God, without dogma, without experts, without arrogance, without blind faith, without been wilfully ignorant, without greed, without indoctrination, without conditioning, without usury, simply be in servitude to unity, this is your purpose.  
 
‘Lá iláhá’ can be interpreted as negative as a certainty to any concept or idea presented as representing Allah (who is not God), while in fact simply transforming the truth of Allah (who is not God) into an idol, a personification or a misperception.  
 
It is a disservice to clarity of understanding to propagate this belief in God, by doing so it transforms the word Allah (who is not God) into the concept of God, you could never do the opposite, so the purpose and logic of expressing the first part of the Shahada is made clear.  
 
Understand your purpose, understand your actions, understand your opportunities, understand your practices, do nothing blindly, essentially understand why, this is all part of realising your potential. Understand this, the mind works just as a muscle works, if you use a muscle it grows ever stronger, if you never use your muscle it will wither and grow weak, if you use your mind Allah (who is not God) will increase its power, if you don’t it will wither, you were made for knowledge, expand your mind to enlightenment.  
 
17:46 It is Allah’s (who is not God‘s) Law that people who do not use their faculties, lose them. Their minds, hearts, and ears act impermeable when you mention your Lord alone in the Qur’an. And, they turn their backs in disgust. (They wish to hear about other deities and false ‘authorities’.)  
 
The final part of the Shahada is, ‘and Muhammad is the Rasul of Allah.’, it is articulated that for the first 12 years of Muhammad’s serving as an envoy of Allah (who is not God), he only expressed the Shahada; he would have only ever expressed the first part, the second part is an addition, Muhammad would never have said, ’and I am the Rasul of Allah (who is not God). Yet this is the original and complete Shahada, being, ‘No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God).’  
 
I am not denying the fact Muhammad is the Rasul of Allah (who is not God), simply it is a contrived addition to the Shahada, I also see no real problem with this addition been tagged onto the end of the original Shahada, but it can not be used to support the concept of Hadith, sovereign worship, idolatry, or  
 
We are guided to see all messengers of Allah (who is not God) as equal.  
 
The concept of the Shahada as an oath of allegiance, again a sovereign concept, the old Persian Kings were wise in their manipulation of the ignorant Christianised Muslims; unless you swear in front of witnesses to give sovereignty to Muhammad through the Shahada, you can not be a Muslim, and so they subjugate the people and hold them in a re-established monarchy, allowing taxation, and exploitation to be re-established.  
 
A Muslim is not created through the utterance of a sentence, as is evident from the character of the world today.  
 
A Muslim is defined purely through action, not false oaths, you must live as a Muslim, to be a Muslim, to state allegiance, while living in confusion and in opposition to Islam, would be in direct opposition to that ambition.  
 
(In your mind) Do not create a (concept of) God in addition to Allah. (Do not delude yourself) Otherwise, (due to this act of equating God to Allah) you will be denied, rejected and you will be left alone (helpless). (Surah 17 : 22)  
 
A similar perspective can be investigate at Ahmed Hulusi at this link: http://www.ahmedhulusi.org/en/  
 
Comments by: momin On: 11/18/2010

 
38.  
Dear Shariq,  
 
I have understood your point of view. Please take me as agnostic who wants to learn about Islam.  
So, your advises are not applicable to me at least. Let me learn and do not expect any blind faith /emotionalism  
in anything from me. Your advise to sister Nargis is unwarranted. She has helped me in learning and your advises  
are impediments in this path. Please let people think. No critical points in this path. No one has said anything which  
could have injured anyone's feelings. Your fears are unknown and superfluous. This time you have become one star  
policeman. congratulations on this promotion.
Comments by: momin On: 11/18/2010

 
39.Dear (Miss) SS - Shariqa  
 
This is an open forum where members have the ability to discuss and debate different topics and subjects. There is no set limit to participation within the forum or the amount of posts generated. There is an admin available who moderates the topics, and has the authorisation and faculty to ensure order within the forum.  
 
I am Muslim, and I am a member of this forum. I do not feel anyone has confused me or presented Islam in mocking fashion in any way, shape or form. I invite questions and discussions relating to the doctrine, I welcome open debate regarding the Quran. It is my duty as a Muslim to practically demonstrate the permanent values promoted by Islam and contained within the Quran.  
 
Re-assessment and re-evaluation is an integral form of ensuring we understand what it is we believe in. If today it is proven that historical accounts of a given segment of Islam is not completely accurate, let’s take “wahy” for example, it is our duty to reflect and investigate further so that we have conviction of the truth.  
 
IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO PROVIDE A REASONABLE ARGUMENT OPPOSING THIS IDEOLOGY, THEN THIS IS YOUR DOWNFALL.  
 
It is a human response mechanism, to seek the truth! The truth does not require uplifting, erroneous accounts will not block the truth from coming into the path of the seeker.  
 
I follow no Sect! I encourage the positive and gracious queries presented before me regarding my Islam! As such, these contestations push me to learn more!  
 
In order to ascertain the truth and to understand true essence of the Quran, we need to analyse / examine each Ayah and decipher it to reach a solid conclusion.  
 
An individual who is seeking the truth has the right to critically challenge anything, if it is done with rationale and without hatred, the individual should not be condemned. Like trying to solve a murder case, even if the victim’s family are questioned regarding the case, they would feel uneasy but would want to get the case resolved.  
 
You have said  
 
“There are people out there who give sanctity to Sacred Beings.”  
 
Yes there are people out there who worship a stone building too – and I am ready to protect their beliefs not hinder them! However....  
 
People have become sensitive, left feeling protective over their faith. Undeniably, no one has the right to discourage the belief or faith or others, a Zoroastrian will always read Namaz, we cannot discourage that!  
 
However, if one claims something to be “Islamic”, one must prove it to be “Islamic”.  
 
Everything labelled “Islamic” should be cross-examined and scrutinised thoroughly, in order to sieve out the spurious assertions that have been floating throughout the ages.  
 
NO ONE HAS THE SOLE AUTHORITY ON THE QURAN!  
 
Who are you to determine what can and cannot be questioned??  
 
How dare you suggest that members of this forum (who are in search for answers) are “spreading skeptic comments about Islam”  
 
How dare you try to cause doubt in the mind of Aastana members, regarding the validity of knowledge propagated by individuals on this forum.  
 
Your fictitious, vindictive notions are not needed, so keep them out of the arena of discussion and debate!  
 
Comments by: William On: 11/18/2010

 
40.Thanks for the replies everyone, Moazzam I appreciate that you've tried from the beginning to illuminate your views with arguments. Momin and brother Parwez, and Naushad have taken the issue seriously and shared their views, I really respect that.  
 
Brother Arungzaib, it was wonderful to read your reply, however, if you believed the discussion to be superfluous from the beginning, you should certainly have honored us with a reply... so to ensure its appeal to the rest!  
 
Why do I ask such questions?  
 
It is not because I do not believe in Wahy, or its origin, on the contrary; I could not convince myself that wahy is the observation of a man who states no more observations are to come. If this book is written and designed by a man, although it may contain great messages, it is not divine for me!  
 
SS, if the board believes that such significant issues should not be highlighted and addressed on this site and want to mimic the policy of Dr Shabbir’s beacon of hoax, where views, opinions and posts are filtered to suit their own agenda, vast amounts of self-praise and blatant adulation is concocted on a daily basis, then I shall leave you to dwindle in such chaos!
Comments by: Nargis On: 11/18/2010

 
41.Wooaaaah hold your horses everyone... you need to remember that the translations you All are quoting from are from number 2 islam.. so i would advise you to wait for the complete translation from dr.Qamar ( we have recieved 2: 242 and are reviewing it )..  
 
there is no need to be aggresive dear S.S.. everyone has the right to discuss matters here on aastana, but I would advice you to think and ponder.. churn matters in you head.. maybe it will open up a new door to a new dimension of thinking.. but you need to remember we do not and will not offer number 2 islam her...  
 
Nargis, Momin.. no need to go any where.. your thoughts and ideas are needed, but as i said translation is on its way.. but the ayah aurangzaib bhai quoted was a worthy sentance to ponder over.. maybe you could get your arabic dictionarys out and see if it was correct translation, read the sayaq and sabaq (previous and proceding ayahs) to see the matter in more detail..  
 
ps..RASOOL = messenger.. can be prophet/man or woman.. same as the postman bringing a message from your loved ones, a letter or in the olden days could have been the telegram :) it can be anyone who brings to you the message of the Quran at any time, past,present or future.  
 
the word Rasool has also been used in the quran to describe the Quran.. ( it is a messenger )  
 
Nabi = Prophet upon whom the wahy was revealed.  
 
so who were just the messengers and who were messenger/prophets in the Quran???  
Comments by: Maniza On: 11/18/2010

 
42.Dear all,  
 
No doubt it was a beautiful discussion which has really helped us to understand this subject in depth.  
All participants, whatever they have written was in good faith. It should be taken in positive spirit. The subject  
of 'WAHI' is pivotal in study of DEEN. Like salat etc this subject has also been corrupted by N2I. With better  
understanding new avenues might open up.  
 
Dear brother Shariq, you are an intelligent, logical and capable person. May I request your honor to participate  
seriously in the discussions, you can contribute a lot if you desire so.
Comments by: pervez On: 11/18/2010

 
43.Dear Momin, what you have pasted appears to be the fruit of a very imaginative mind. However, I strongly disagree with many of his reasonings. Can you explain 6:19 given below?  
 
6:19 Say (O Messenger), “What could be the greatest witness?” Say, “Allah is Witness between me and you. This Qur’an has been revealed to me so that I may warn you as well as whomever it reaches. Do you bear witness that there are other deities/gods besides Allah?” Say, “I bear no such witness.” Say, “He is the One God. I disown what you associate with Him.”  
 
While you argue that Allah is not god ('ilah'), Ibrahim was commanded to proclaim that Allah is the One 'ilah'  
 
Comments by: Naushad On: 11/18/2010

 
44.Dear All  
 
Life on earth progressed from the early primitive stages until the human life gained consciousness and became aware of the surroundings. The first reaction was that man found himself very small and weak in front of the forces of nature. The lightening, earthquakes, floods, storms, were all there to frighten him to death. So the immediate and first perception was that of intense fear.  
To cut the long story short, religion was the product of fear. Fear of getting hurt, fear of defeat, fear of extinction, fear of death, fear of the unknown, etc, etc. To overcome that fear humans took refuge in religion and thus he got strength from the God, he devised. The God, he devised was the strongest, the biggest, the ever living, capable of defeating all the evil forces of nature and helping him in all situations.  
All Semitic and non-Semitic religions were the extension of overcoming of that fear; Islam not being the exception.  
Even today in our sub-conscious, we are afraid of the unknown and thus we take refuge in religion. That’s why I am here, you are here. We are all religious in some way or the other. Otherwise you and me would have been pondering into some social, political or entertaining site and not writing comments on Aastana.  
We also know that all religions demand certain things to be believed unconditionally.  
We all believe in God but we cannot scientifically prove the existence of God. But we still discuss God, maybe to have a better understanding or refine our concept of God.  
Similarly we discuss the meanings, translations and concepts transcended from the Quranic verses. But we are not skeptic about the Quranic verses nor do we create doubts about them.  
If somehow, we have doubts about the Quranic verses, we can just quit and be comfortable without it. There is no compulsion to continue lingering on and impose our doubts onto others.  
I think, raising objections just for the sake of objections is not fair. It represents the mentality of that Molvi, who is not satisfied even after declaring the Ahmedis as non-Muslims. He even objects to their reading Quran or offering prayers, or using Islamic names or calling their worshipping places as mosques. And the objections go on and on.  
The objections raised about “Wahi” in the about discussion, at places, sounded to me like mocking.  
Though I may claim to be non-religionist myself, the mockery did not taste good.  
 
Shariq
Comments by: SS On: 11/18/2010

 
45.I really dont understand how u find my questions "bad tasting mockery" :-s
Comments by: Nargis On: 11/18/2010

 
46.Dear All, Good question and good comments for enhancing thought process over the topic of wahi and prophethood. Just to keep what all I have to say under one comment am pasting a comment from the link which was posted above.  
 
Maybe a common man would not understand the practical law behind wahi till date but that doesnt mean its a miracle. 200 years back people might not have understood practical law behind communication over mobile but today we can. But for sure there has to be law for Wahi as well. Not sure why but am optimistic that someday humans might understand this process with advancement of our understanding of brain functioning and connection of nature with it.  
 
As per my understanding until now, Prophets were intellects of their era's who were in search of a concept to establish a system which can bring peace and enhancement of human kind. And they might have looked in all the law books ( Man made, Revealed and so called Revealed books).I think when a person reaches such a high level frame of mind to find possibilities of formation of a system in harmony with Law of Nature .As per explanation given by Dr Qamar of nature revealing itself may occur.  
 
Why Mohammed is seal of prophets ?.........Maybe a person might not reach that high level frame of mind after last revelation, he might get possibilities already present in Nature ( Quran as its original text is intact) and his intellect might surrender to this code book and he might not feel need of any more possibilities beyond this seal of law from nature.  
 
It’s a very good practice to put a why and get logic answers for every thing. All rational minds are helpless when it comes to Wahi and existence of God.  
 
Wahy can be understood sooner or later its just a matter of understanding of brain and nature correlation which again as said is possible for Humans in sometime future ( maybe).  
 
Last but not the least most exalted point were a rational mind is helpless to get and give a logic proof is existence of God. This answer was not found in thousands of years and millions of rational minds ( Philosophers ). With results in front of us I think we cannot grasp this in our average life of 60 to 90 years. This can be Speculated but not proved for sure. If Something cannot be proved doesn’t mean its not a possibility. To number of Logic questions we got to understand existence of God we got equal number of logic questions with denial of God.  
 
When Quran says “No Vision can grasp God” and having results in front of us for this verse (since last 40,000 years). I think this cannot be understood/proved on rational grounds and even if we try we will end up in a no mans land as even being an atheist will have Logic questions of being an atheist.  
 
Note : Really enjoyed comments from all participants specially Momin’s comment for Word Allah ( Who is not God ), Naushad and Shariq.  
 
Just 2 cents of my meager understanding until now…………..  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.  
Comments by: Mubashir Syed On: 11/18/2010

 
47.Dear Shariq  
 
I’ve learnt that religion is to man, as a safety blanket is to a baby... religion is important to people and forms a strong basis within them as an individual. It is a part of their life, their culture, their code of existence.  
 
However, the depth to how closely one is to follow a particular religion is down to the individual alone... e.g. a Christian man’s faith could be said to be between him and his God and no one has the right to come between that!  
 
Islam on the other hand, is not a religion; it is a “Deen”. Islam is a system that cultivates and develops society, improving standard of living for its public. Islam does not require blind following... and rituals that need to be practiced; Islam is a system of life that is built upon laws, truth and justice.  
 
We’re not here to compare our faith or beliefs, instead, from what I have understood... that this site is a unit where Islam is discussed openly... to eradicate false ideas of what have become to be known by the vast majority of the world as Islam.  
 
By inviting others to debate on various topics regarding Islam, the specious principles are driven out, and all that remains is the truth!  
 
Everything needs to be investigated and properly digested before it can be declared “Islamic”. Once we have come to fully comprehend such knowledge, having no ambiguity or doubt, only then can we use such brilliance in application to create a fully functional state that supports and nourishes its people!  
 
Raising questions and queries challenges the rationale of the individuals – it pushes for explanations – in turn, moving the bar! To have directives for an investigation is necessary in order to achieve results!  
 
Questions that are have a sincere substance bring us ever closer to finding out the truth... something which may seem mocking to you... may be the start of a journey for someone else!  
 
Nargis asks very interesting and challenging questions!! We should be thankful, it helps us to understand Islam!!  
 
Thank you Miss Nargis  
 
Regards  
 
William
Comments by: William On: 11/19/2010

 
48.Its ok u can call me Mr, hum sub main kam se kam ek mard to hona chahie :-D !!!!!
Comments by: Nargis On: 11/19/2010

 
49.  
 
 
WELL SAID
Comments by: momin On: 11/19/2010

 
50.Dear Sis Nargis,  
 
I owe my reply to you on the subject under discussion because you addressed your question to me. I had actually decided not to post any further on this topic as I sense some hot tempers around, for no apparent reason.  
 
“Brother Arungzaib, it was wonderful to read your reply, however, if you believed the discussion to be superfluous from the beginning, you should certainly have honored us with a reply... so to ensure its appeal to the rest!”  
 
Yes, dear Sis, I respect your words and I did not enter the discussion because it was, for me, futile. Still I did not give my opinion in the beginning because friends were eager to discuss and I had no intention to hinder their way. You can be sure that at Aastana, there are no obstacles in the way of expression.  
 
Just as friends had every right to discuss, I had my rights too to express my opinion at opportune time. And when I noticed lots of exchanges with no results, I thought fit to highlight some very important points that required careful observation. I would explain that later.  
 
To give an opinion that this discussion cannot be fruitful – and that opinion duly backed by Quranic authority – cannot be construed as some kind of restriction.  
If some other member imposed such restriction that was just to be ignored. It’s a Blog for all and all have equal rights.  
 
Aastana is a Quran based institute. Personally, I abide by the basic policy and you might be able to confirm that almost all my comments are Quran based. Brother William has said that “Nobody has an authority over Quran”. Has he noticed anyone claiming this authority here? I don’t think so. He can see the guidelines on the home page. Why would he then need to announce that, I wouldn’t know? BUT, Quran is still the final authority for us. We feel it best to always talk from Quranic perspective. We expect members also to follow that policy. It is not so right now. But they have all the time to fall in line. We don’t believe in quantum leaps. Although blessed are they who are gifted with that capability. We aim at a gradual sea change which we notice taking place with the right momentum – thanks God for that.  
 
Now look at what I had written :  
 
“Can we attribute all the above negative points to my Lord pbuh ? If we are ready to go that far, then sure we can follow the theory of NATURE, INTELLECT, OBSERVATION, etc. It is up to us, individually!”  
 
After pointing out that the theory of “Nature revealing itself to Mohammad pbhu”, implicates his august person to mass deception and fraud, I HAD STILL LEFT THE DECISION TO INDIVIDUALS! Nowhere will you find a dictation or pressure of any kind! It is not Aastana’s policy and I do regret that you had to refer to Ourbeacon’s negative tactics out of context. I was always confident of your trust in Aastana and its policies! So, naturally, it saddened me quite a bit.  
 
“Why do I ask such questions?”  
 
Why do you have to explain? There is no barrier in asking questions or posting comments. Yours have particularly been thought-provoking.  
 
“It is not because I do not believe in Wahy, or its origin, on the contrary; I could not convince myself that wahy is the observation of a man who states no more observations are to come. If this book is written and designed by a man, although it may contain great messages, it is not divine for me!”  
 
This is exactly what I believe. If you go through my main comment again, I am saying the same thing there. Mohammad, without divinity, would be just another man across the street for me. I go even further. I maintain that if he was a man of the highest wisdom and intellect – without Wahi – he would certainly never ever deceive the world by declaring himself a Prophet with a divine book. If he did, he would be declared an imposter (nauzu billah). For heavens’ sake, he was not. He was genuine. He received Divine Guidance as claimed by the BOOK.  
 
I trust you would take Aastana as your own and would continue replying boldly to what looks wrong to you. In a Blog certain unpleasant situations do arise. To ignore them is the best policy. I am doing the same. Confrontations, you know, can change the congenial atmosphere to chaos. In that scenario, I will be the first one to go. I hope the admn. is taking care of hot temperaments and harsh words. Let us all be academic rather than personal. Only then we can maintain a family environment. This is a suggestion to some other friends. You sure don’t need that.  
 
God bless you.  
 
Comments by: aurangzaib On: 11/19/2010

 
51.Hello Arungzaib , I understand what you mean. I was offended when i heard i was “mocking” others religion, even though I’m not. Sorry for being rude, i was angry. I know Aastana is the best site, that’s why I’m here all the time. Sorry Shariq .  
Comments by: Nargis On: 11/20/2010

 
52.Brother aurangzaib,  
 
Thank you for your endearing, assuring and very comforting oration!  
 
You have stated:  
 
“Brother William has said that “Nobody has an authority over Quran”. Has he noticed anyone claiming this authority here? I don’t think so.”  
 
Shariq, formally known as “SS” has made many contemptible comments towards Nargis... “airing his authority” to say the least!  
 
“ “Wahi" is something which cannot be subjected to scrutiny ”  
 
“It is not attainable by everyone. This was a source of knowledge, through which Allah communicated with His Prophets.”  
 
“You have to accept it without questioning its legitimacy.”  
 
“If you start doubting the "Wahi" then it is better you may opt to remain out of the religious domain.”  
 
“If you wans to remain within the confines of Islam, then stop spreading skeptic comments about Islam.”  
 
“It is not boldness to curse or doubt the tenants of Islam or abuse those who are taken as sacred.”  
 
“and impose our doubts onto others”  
 
“raising objections just for the sake of objections is not fair. It represents the mentality of that Molvi,”  
 
“The objections raised about “Wahi” in the about discussion, at places, sounded to me like mocking.”  
 
There are no Ayas referenced in Shariq’s comments, and yet he is voicing his opinions as if he has the “final word”  
 
Although I appreciate your personal viewpoints - that miscreants should be ignored... however, where a member is openly being ridiculed and left feeling disheartened, I will step in!  
 
I would just like to remind myself and the rest of the members,  
what the guidelines actually state. Point number 6 of the Aastana blog guidelines is very interesting indeed:  
 
“ 6. No kind of rigidity, extremism, air of authority, religious edicts or final words are employed.”  
 
Read through my posts again and you shall see the true message behind them!  
 
Thank you
Comments by: William On: 11/20/2010

 
53.Thank you both dear ones, Nargis and Williams,  
 
Thank you for your understanding.  
 
I clearly see that the offense taken by both of you was justified. In the not-so-long history of your website, Aastana, only two people have been noted to have personal egoistic problems. They write to score points and are not at all academically or intellectually inclined. Whenever they comment, it is just their personal speculation lacking any authentic reference. And you know, such writings portray excessive verbiage, profitable to none, and a sheer wastage of time and energy. They are prone to personal insinuations of insulting nature at times, thus harming endlessly the harmony and the cause of Quranic learning that Aastana is trying to inculcate.  
 
Now that the JINN is out of the bottle, allow me to say that friends have been giving them excessive response and thus encouraging them into unbridled outpour. I may recommend that writings not conducive to learning must be totally ignored by us like-minded members collectively. What do you think?  
 
We are facing a dilemma too. If we block such participants, we may be labelled in the line of other websites.  
If we allow this fruitless verbiage, it may ultimately lead to ferocious exchange of verbal firing. So my dear ones, until we have framed a clear cut policy to deal with such people, we are giving them time to evolve. I still hope "they" take this talk positively and remake a pledge to abide by the Guidelines. Of course, they can oppose ideas presented in an academic manner, and not insinuate or incriminate personalities. As Brother William pointed out in his previous comment, there must be a strict admin. and there is a moderator badly needed to control members' drifting away from the manifesto.  
 
I wish you both the best of both worlds.
Comments by: aurangzaib On: 11/20/2010

 
54.Who is the other "miscreant"
Comments by: SS On: 11/20/2010

 
55.Dear Naushad,  
Your question,  
 
"Dear Momin, what you have pasted appears to be the fruit of a very imaginative mind. However, I strongly disagree with many of his reasoning. Can you explain 6:19 given below?"  
 
You may find answer to your question from below , I copied from servant of the light.  
 
"Say, “What thing is greatest in testimony?” Say, “Allah is witness between me and you. And this Qur'an  
was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches. Do you testify that with Allah  
there are other deities?” Say, “I will not testify.” Say, “He (Allah) is but one to serve, and indeed, I am free  
of what you associate.” (surah 6:19)  
 
"Again the Qur’an makes it clear there is no God, and tells the ignorant that it is a Shirk to call Allah (who  
is not God) God."  
 
Please read the whole article along with this addition which Mr. Abdun has included now after I asked him  
your question and see if it make sense to you.  
 
Forget about the other one Mr ss, take care of yourself , otherwise they will block you, but I sincerely wish to  
see you here contributing positively. Please note air of authority is always there with the executives, so be  
careful if you want to interact with the people here. Please don't miss the opportunity.  
Comments by: momin On: 11/20/2010

 
56.Your friend Iqbal, the one who use to run donkey cart.  
 
I am sorry.  
 
Perhaps, for sure, I am not educated enough to participate, no sane enough, need to get rehabilitated, will just learn, but please Aastana should not consider abandoning people.  
 
Fee Amaan Allah
Comments by: Iqbal kay shaheen On: 11/20/2010

 
57.Dear Iqbal,  
I advised Shariq keeping in view following development in Mr Aurangzebs post.  
 
"We are facing a dilemma too. If we block such participants, we may be labelled in the line of other websites.  
If we allow this fruitless verbiage, it may ultimately lead to ferocious exchange of verbal firing. So my dear ones, until we have framed a clear cut policy to deal with such people, we are giving them time to evolve. I still hope "they" take this talk positively and remake a pledge to abide by the Guidelines. Of course, they can oppose ideas presented in an academic manner, and not insinuate or incriminate personalities. As Brother William pointed out in his previous comment, there must be a strict admin. and there is a moderator badly needed to control members' drifting away from the manifesto"
Comments by: momin On: 11/20/2010

 
58.Dear Momin,  
 
What do you understand by 'ilah'?
Comments by: Naushad On: 11/21/2010

 
59.  
 
ila = except/nothing but.  
 
No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God)  
Comments by: momin On: 11/21/2010

 
60.Hi Brother aurangzaib,  
 
I believe in freedom of expression, and by creating an environment where censors are installed, it will take away the very charm of aastana.  
 
My comments were not supposed to suggest notions of a stricter regime. In some instances I prefer a bit of banter – it’s good for the brain!  
 
Thanks  
Comments by: William On: 11/21/2010

 
61.  
Dear William,  
 
I APPRECIATE YOUR MATURE COMMENTS.
Comments by: pervez On: 11/22/2010

 
62.Dear Momin,  
 
"No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God) "- is an oxymoron.  
 
The Quran is not a book of mysteries. It is an easy to understand book if you approach it without preconceived notions. However, the website that you keep on quoting here is full of unnecessary verbiage and personal opinions. To twist the meaning of a word to suit your perception- this is a big prejudice. Please use the quran and only the quran to validate any understanding. None can be called a scholar of the quran and hence no one can claim his interpretation to be perfect. However, the quran proclaims that it is easy to understand and in clear language. Lets not try to find hidden meanings where they do not exist.
Comments by: Naushad On: 11/22/2010

 
63.Dear Naushad,  
You may be right and I may be absolutely wrong but frankly , this website has a lot of  
attractions for my intellectual thirst. I enjoy reading there. However, it is only recently that I have started  
reading and yet not finished with all the articles there. I would like to read them all. Your advises are  
genuine but I like such flights of imaginations. If you dislike, I will avoid posting from there.  
 
THANKS
Comments by: momin On: 11/23/2010

 
64.Dear All, i think second part of question is not covered in any comment.  
Nargis : I have another question too (answer one,get one free)please explain 2:78, what it means& whts with the slaves, free, women, etc?  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed
Comments by: Mubashir Syed On: 11/24/2010

 
65.Dear Mubashir Syed, sister Nargis : As quran explains itself ,to know the category of people described in verse 2/78, you should read from the verse 2/75--80 .There are two groups of people having two different type of attitude and deads, 1st one's behaviour is described in verse 75,76,79,and the 2nd one's (ummiyyoons) way of thinking has been described in verse 78,80.Now search out these type of reople in your time and place.-----------------------------As for as Free women,slave,concubine are concerns,ple read the following reply given by Dr. Qamarzaman,let me reproduce it here.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  
 
the compound "malakat aimanukum" has two words, 1 Malakat ,2 Aimanokum  
Malakat is derived from root letters Meem Lam Kaf. The basic meanings of this root letter are to posess, to control by ones own will.So the word "malakat" has the the sense of having control over something  
The other word is "Aimanokum" having root letters Ye Meem Noon ,the basic meaning is blessings,  
The word Aiman to mean Right hand is derived because in religion Right hand is supposed to be blessed one.  
The other meaning derived from this word is "Oath"eg 2-224,225,5-89,108.  
The meaning of the compound means "Because of your Oath you are in control, responsibleor in psession of something"  
Now to define the nature of resonsibility,control or posession the background of the Ayat is very important. The oath is just like Power of Attorney. It makes you responsible to deal the problem without calling the one who made you responsible.You are in posession of all the matters even property.  
the one who is making you responsible may be your sister mother or a daughter.  
In Muslim Culture we are made responsible for the marriages of our sisters and daughters because they are blood relations,but if a non related person makes you responsible to deccide on her or his behalf it means that she or he has given you the responsibility of dealng her or his marriage matters. As you dont marry your sisters or daughters you dont marry any girl who has made you resposible for her marriage matters.  
 
 
Lets first see 4-3( ).  
The traditional translation of this ayat says  
"and if you are afraid of your injustice to the ophans then marry from them those whom you like"  
Now imagine about orphan girls about whom we are afraid of doing injustice the solution is to marry from them whom you please.  
this is absolute absurdity.why..............because,  
1----if the person doing injustice knows he is doing injustice,he will stop injustice as soon as he will become aware of it  
2----If he marries the orphan girl he gets a licence of doing further injustice.  
3----Marrying an orphan is even worse injustice  
4----Orphans are not only girls but boys too, so what is the solution for boys.  
 
There is a Part of the verse"Ma Taba lakum."  
This is wrongly translated as"whom you like" ------this is absolutely wrong translation---------why, Let me explain,  
The word " Taba"is used for third person not for the first person.  
Taba is from "Tayyab" meaning suitable.so the translation will be "whosoever, "he" considered suitable for you"  
("MA"whosoever "Taba"He considered suitable, "Lakum" fo you)  
so the person has no say in selection of the girl to marry,which is absolutely wrong.  
Now who is this "HE" who is selecting for you?  
this verse has nothing to do with marriage.  
It is a policy matter of the government .If there is a problem of orphans the Government will decide to give to the suitable person from you the custody of these orphans under a contract.The person who is given the custody will take care of these orphans who may be two or three or four at a time,but if you are afraid of injustice so you have to take care of at least one orphan and those who are already under your oath. This is because you are not overburdened.  
now once you know that "malakat aimanokum"can be anybody for whom you are made responsible for any problem under an oath you can understand any verse about milk-e-yameen.  
verses 1 to 11 of sura 23 by traditional translation give an impression of Milk-e-yameen as slaves and a permit to have sex with slaves.But few questions arise on this traditional translations  
1----- If Mominoons include males and females both it can not reserve the right for males only to have sex with female slaves ,Females are automtically allowed to have sex with male slaves.  
2-----Sura 24 verse31 clearly gives right to ladies to keep slaves.  
In Sura 23 verse 6 The word "AU MA" has appeard which means "or those"  
Now you have to decide who are "or those"  
Consider a sentence  
"Either Team green or team blue can participate " this sentence can be written in another way  
"Team green or team blue can participate"missing the word either,  
Same is the case in this verse .the verse is to be understood under the same rule.  
Either they are momenoons or Milke yameen whosoever is humble in organising a system(Salat),turns away from frivolous and who are working for the betterment of the people of the state and who takes care of their chestity with any but their spouces attain a happy state and are free from anyblame.  
I hope Ihave clearified the verse litlle bit.
Comments by: moazzam On: 11/24/2010

 
66.Salaam,  
 
great efforts have been invested in corrupting the rights of women within the corruption of the religion labeled Islam, I will clarify a point of 'those your right hand posses' corrupted into the idea of a slave.  
 
Those you right hand possess is in reference to the people in your life you love deeply, it is used in several verse where this meaning is required, family members, friend or even women you fall in love with are all those your right hand possess.  
 
If a woman loves a man deeply, he possess her, in a way no other can, if a man loves a woman deeply she possess him in a way no other can, it would not change if they were married to another or not, their love would exist as a far stronger bond than marriage, this is why, if they are NOT both single already, it removes the burden upon the woman or the man to suffer within an existing marriage, when they have developed a deep love for another, they must remove themselves from the marriage with compassion and unite with the person they love.  
 
It is not lawful for you (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract you, except those right hand should possess. And Allah doth watch over all things. (Surah 33:52)  
 
Allah has even given provision for deep love within his guidance as he knows the torment and suffering a human being will experience if they are denied any chance of union. Merciful and generous as ever. If you search the Qur'an and apply this meaning of those your right hand posses to every verse it contains it will become clear.
Comments by: Abdun On: 12/16/2010

 
67."great efforts have been invested in corrupting the rights of women within the corruption of the religion labeled Islam, I will clarify a point of 'those your right hand posses' corrupted into the idea of a slave. "  
 
Dear Abdun, i agree, but wanted to add : Great efforts have been invested in corrupting the rights of the weak in a society.  
 
Religious mafiosso's have tried everything to control people. Scared them with hell, monsters at pool sirat,wrath of God etc. Its the same old method, new people. Human beings have been controlled through a system of belief.  
 
If people woke up, no1 could rule their mind. In the end, its up to the victim to stop the "zulm".  
Comments by: Nargis On: 12/16/2010

 
68.Brother Abdun,  
 
Your explanation of the term "Maa Malakat Ayimanukum", does afford a still broader perspective to its modern rational understanding.  
 
Sis Nargis also remarkably covers the basic structure of human society. Basically human society is a battlefield of the Powerful against the Weak. And all Divine Scriptures actually ordain empowerment of the Weak against the Powerful. Sure, the term Weak covers Women also as they have been under male domination and exploited through the ages.
Comments by: aurangzaib On: 12/17/2010

 
69.Salaam;  
 
I think verse 24:58 gives us a clear understanding of the term "MALAKAT AIMANUKUM'.  
 
As per context, it simply means "individuals following you under your leadership". Whereas LAM YABLUGHU means those who have not yet attained the state of maturity or individuals who have not yet reached mental maturity.  
 
In this verse, believers of peace have been instructed that those who are following your leadership and are still not reached mental maturity in terms of understanding of Quran and its constitutional elements must seek your permission or ask for your approval before getting involved in discussion and dialogue during formation of a strategy for dominance. Without permission or guidance, they must not take part in arguments or protests during three (critical) phases.  
 
Please correct me if you think I am wrong.
Comments by: Junaid On: 2/3/2011

 
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